Wests Tigers 2016...The winning formula..

[happy_tiger]

But again your right

Good to see you have finally come to your senses. Lets all hope that JT gets it this year as well and continues his changed tactics that he was building on in the second half of last year.

And hopefully the players learn that their defense has to be a great deal better than last year or a bottom 4 finish will be on again…

Don't worry TT Steve will be taking over as head coach when Taylor is gone

He has some great ideas defensively , like hoping the opposition scores out wide so the opposition goal kicker might miss

We will still get beaten but the scoreline will be 58-34 and that will be the most important thing :wink:

 

[Tiger_Tim]

Our defence does have to be better but you don't win games 0-0\. You need to get a balance. Defensively our back 5 weren't that bad except for when Lovett moved out wide. Sure they could have been better and hopefully they will this year.
It's been said many times that our team lacks mongrel. I doubt many teams were scared of our forwards last year which led them to run our our small halves. The pigs really need to stand up this year and lead from the front. Hit hard, run hard and the backs will grow in confidence.

 

[jirskyr]

Our team lacks platform, others have said as much in here. We lack the platform for consistently threatening attack / metre gaining, as well as the platform for resolute defence. At times we are great at these elements, usually never all of them together, and definitely rarely when the pressure is on.

That is the thing about WT, we have always been a team that can turn on amazing or terrible with little reason or notice. We can put 20 points on Canberra in 20 mins, then concede 30 in the back half.

Oppositions always know they can beat us if they stay in the game, as much as they know that on a given day we could blow them away. Oppositions know it is a mental game with us, that if they can stick it to us for a good 20 mins we will probably fall apart.

In tennis terms we are the Nick Kyrgios of rugby league. At times amazing, at times woeful, usually frustrating, rarely consistent, often in the papers for wrong reasons. You never know what you are going to get on the day. That form might jag you a few games in a row or even a low-level competition like the Hopman, but it's not going to trouble the top-tier of the Grand Slams on a consistent basis.

Melbourne Storm, they are more like Roger Federer. You almost always get a high standard of play - consistent, dependable, calm under pressure, fall back on good habits in difficult situations. They don't always win, but they win enough and rarely get flogged.

For perhaps two seasons in 16 have I watched WT walk out (2010 and 2011) and know we would get a typically good display. I knew in those years that the team would do ok as a whole, and that we were a chance in any conditions - rain, nights, Fridays, players out etc.

Imagine being a Melbourne Storm supporter and having that feeling more or less every week for almost 20 years?

So with Taylor, he didn't get the results last year. That's not to say he was totally wrong or doesn't know what he is doing, because half of all clubs don't get the results every year, and he's only had one go at it for us.

What I do appreciate from Taylor was a willingness to try something new, to recognise and rectify what has historically been an ordinary defence. Did he need to shackle the attack at times to improve this defence? Maybe not, but if you look at the records, Tigers have usually relied on attack to win games, and overall that has not been a successful strategy. In other words, leaving the attack "unshackled" has been proven not to work over many seasons.

There's no reason why you can't work on both facets at once, but history was calling for a different approach. The fact that the new approach did not work straight away does not mean you throw out the system after just one attempt.

And the ongoing talk, still, about THAT Cowboys game. Such selective memory! It was a shocker, no doubt, we should have beaten that side and the game was absolute crap to watch. But I've seen more than my share of tragic WT and Balmain performances over the years and that Cowboys game is not the worst I've seen. It was not even an accurate representation of the year we had, not consistent with other performances, but some people have somehow installed it as the poster-boy for everything bad about WT and JT as a coach. Best forgoten, I think.

 

[TrueTiger]

Our team lacks platform, others have said as much in here. We lack the platform for consistently threatening attack / metre gaining, as well as the platform for resolute defence. At times we are great at these elements, usually never all of them together, and definitely rarely when the pressure is on.

That is the thing about WT, we have always been a team that can turn on amazing or terrible with little reason or notice. We can put 20 points on Canberra in 20 mins, then concede 30 in the back half.

Oppositions always know they can beat us if they stay in the game, as much as they know that on a given day we could blow them away. Oppositions know it is a mental game with us, that if they can stick it to us for a good 20 mins we will probably fall apart.

In tennis terms we are the Nick Kyrgios of rugby league. At times amazing, at times woeful, usually frustrating, rarely consistent, often in the papers for wrong reasons. You never know what you are going to get on the day. That form might jag you a few games in a row or even a low-level competition like the Hopman, but it's not going to trouble the top-tier of the Grand Slams on a consistent basis.

Melbourne Storm, they are more like Roger Federer. You almost always get a high standard of play - consistent, dependable, calm under pressure, fall back on good habits in difficult situations. They don't always win, but they win enough and rarely get flogged.

For perhaps two seasons in 16 have I watched WT walk out (2010 and 2011) and know we would get a typically good display. I knew in those years that the team would do ok as a whole, and that we were a chance in any conditions - rain, nights, Fridays, players out etc.

Imagine being a Melbourne Storm supporter and having that feeling more or less every week for almost 20 years?

So with Taylor, he didn't get the results last year. That's not to say he was totally wrong or doesn't know what he is doing, because half of all clubs don't get the results every year, and he's only had one go at it for us.

What I do appreciate from Taylor was a willingness to try something new, to recognise and rectify what has historically been an ordinary defence. Did he need to shackle the attack at times to improve this defence? Maybe not, but if you look at the records, Tigers have usually relied on attack to win games, and overall that has not been a successful strategy. In other words, not ever shackling the attack has usually not worked.

.

Very good post jirskyr,and the common denominator in the past few years that has let us down has been defense,credit to JT for at least trying to rectify this area,albeit with criticism from a lot of people,it takes heaps of work and hours of practice to get the D right,people only kid themselves when they come out with comments like " but their professional footballers,they should know what to do"…

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Nobody on here said that, you tool

Oohhhh! Who's' come back from holidays with a sore head ?
Don't worry ink , despite the fact that we are supposed to bow to your undoubted superior knowledge, I didn't say anyone said that.
All I said was that" if you score more points than the opposition does, then it's impossible to lose,
I didn't say that that was how we should play, just stated a simple fact,
If I thought that it would ruffle the important people like yourself, I would have tried not to upset you
Hope you feel better tomorrow
And in round one, I hope we score more than the opposition.

 

[TrueTiger]

Nobody on here said that, you tool

Oohhhh! Who's' come back from holidays with a sore head ?
Don't worry ink , despite the fact that we are supposed to bow to your undoubted superior knowledge, I didn't say anyone said that.
All I said was that" if you score more points than the opposition does, then it's impossible to lose,
I didn't say that that was how we should play, just stated a simple fact,
If I thought that it would ruffle the important people like yourself, I would have tried not to upset you
Hope you feel better tomorrow
And in round one, I hope we score more than the opposition.

As long as their defense has improved…and dont let the opposition run over the top of them,especially if they are leading.....

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Nobody on here said that, you tool

Oohhhh! Who's' come back from holidays with a sore head ?
Don't worry ink , despite the fact that we are supposed to bow to your undoubted superior knowledge, I didn't say anyone said that.
All I said was that" if you score more points than the opposition does, then it's impossible to lose,
I didn't say that that was how we should play, just stated a simple fact,
If I thought that it would ruffle the important people like yourself, I would have tried not to upset you
Hope you feel better tomorrow
And in round one, I hope we score more than the opposition.

As long as their defense has improved…and dont let the opposition run over the top of them,especially if they are leading.....

Ah well! If that happens, then they won't have scored more than the opposition…...and they"l lose..... Simple isn't it. :smiley:

 

[TrueTiger]

Nobody on here said that, you tool

Oohhhh! Who's' come back from holidays with a sore head ?
Don't worry ink , despite the fact that we are supposed to bow to your undoubted superior knowledge, I didn't say anyone said that.
All I said was that" if you score more points than the opposition does, then it's impossible to lose,
I didn't say that that was how we should play, just stated a simple fact,
If I thought that it would ruffle the important people like yourself, I would have tried not to upset you
Hope you feel better tomorrow
And in round one, I hope we score more than the opposition.

As long as their defense has improved…and dont let the opposition run over the top of them,especially if they are leading.....

Ah well! If that happens, then they won't have scored more than the opposition…...and they"l lose..... Simple isn't it. :smiley:

GCT, I have to give you credit for at least being PERSISTANT…..

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Oohhhh! Who's' come back from holidays with a sore head ?
Don't worry ink , despite the fact that we are supposed to bow to your undoubted superior knowledge, I didn't say anyone said that.
All I said was that" if you score more points than the opposition does, then it's impossible to lose,
I didn't say that that was how we should play, just stated a simple fact,
If I thought that it would ruffle the important people like yourself, I would have tried not to upset you
Hope you feel better tomorrow
And in round one, I hope we score more than the opposition.

As long as their defense has improved…and dont let the opposition run over the top of them,especially if they are leading.....

Ah well! If that happens, then they won't have scored more than the opposition…...and they"l lose..... Simple isn't it. :smiley:

GCT, I have to give you credit for at least being PERSISTANT…..

Being a WT supporter, you learn to be persistent TT, to turn up every year hoping that this one will be better than the one before.
Maybe this is the big one, who knows.
I couldn't care less if they win by a brilliant attack , or a brilliant defence, or just a series of complete flukes,
Just a win, any kind of win would be great, even if it took a breakdown of the oppositions bus. I'd accept any win :laughing:

 

[doublesonthemain]

I looked up the stats for each coach in their first year with the club and Jason Taylor actually came out best. In his first year his team scored on average per game just a little over 20 points which is slightly higher than the other 4 coaches. His team also conceded an average per game less than the other 4, just a little over 23 pts per game. At this club, at this particular time, I think you cannot really judge a coach on just 1 year. This is probably the toughest job in the NRL, Neil Henry might argue with that, especially given what has occurred the previous 2 or 3 years on and off the field. We might find some of the coach's ideas strange at times but why not give them a chance to work, give them time otherwise we'll be on the coaching merry go round, hardly attractive to any coach of stature wanting a position of stability and support.

 

[MightyMaggy]

I looked up the stats for each coach in their first year with the club and Jason Taylor actually came out best. In his first year his team scored on average per game just a little over 20 points which is slightly higher than the other 4 coaches. His team also conceded an average per game less than the other 4, just a little over 23 pts per game. At this club, at this particular time, I think you cannot really judge a coach on just 1 year. This is probably the toughest job in the NRL, Neil Henry might argue with that, especially given what has occurred the previous 2 or 3 years on and off the field. We might find some of the coach's ideas strange at times but why not give them a chance to work, give them time otherwise we'll be on the coaching merry go round, hardly attractive to any coach of stature wanting a position of stability and support.

May I congratulate "Doubles" for the best, most sensible post I have read in ages. This is the kind of basic fact that must be considered before racing off and sacking everybody in order to fix a problem.
I posted a few weeks ago that I had been informed that the NRL squad's condition this year is well in front of where they were at this time last year. If this is true, there may be fewer games, where the team leaks heaps of points in the last twenty minutes.
In addition, a lot of attention is being paid to the tackling technique of individuals and the technique of the group in multiple tackles. It would help to improve the defensive side of our game. If the points for and against for last year were 20 for and 23 against, reducing the points against by 4 this year should produce more wins.

 

[stevetiger]

^^^

It doesn't work like that. All that matters is scoring more than the opposition in each game because then you win games. Don't kid yourself that the stats show JT was the best first year coach we've had. He has been the worse.

I don't like the spin. We had a really bad year last year and came 2nd last on points differential. Then we had the Farah debacle. I'm hopeful that JT learned from that experience and we don't have another dud year. If we do I hope we sack the guy. If we have a good year I'd be happy with resigning him.

 

[ryanda01]

^^^

It doesn't work like that. All that matters is scoring more than the opposition in each game because then you win games. Don't kid yourself that the stats show JT was the best first year coach we've had. He has been the worse.

I don't like the spin. We had a really bad year last year and came 2nd last on points differential. Then we had the Farah debacle. I'm hopeful that JT learned from that experience and we don't have another dud year. If we do I hope we sack the guy. If we have a good year I'd be happy with resigning him.

That was the mentality of the 2005 Sheens era Tigers. It was the "Ohhh yeah you just put 40 on us so instead of defending better, we'll just score 41." I don't think that it's going to, or has worked like that, for the past 5 years. If we can't defend, then it's going to be the tail wagging the dog. We will haemorrhage points that we won't be able to counter. The last GF winners have won based on strong defense; not razzle dazzle offence.

 

[TrueTiger]

^^^

It doesn't work like that. All that matters is scoring more than the opposition in each game because then you win games. Don't kid yourself that the stats show JT was the best first year coach we've had. He has been the worse.

I don't like the spin. We had a really bad year last year and came 2nd last on points differential. Then we had the Farah debacle. I'm hopeful that JT learned from that experience and we don't have another dud year. If we do I hope we sack the guy. If we have a good year I'd be happy with resigning him.

That was the mentality of the 2005 Sheens era Tigers. It was the "Ohhh yeah you just put 40 on us so instead of defending better, we'll just score 41." I don't think that it's going to, or has worked like that, for the past 5 years. If we can't defend, then it's going to be the tail wagging the dog. We will haemorrhage points that we won't be able to counter. The last GF winners have won based on strong defense; not razzle dazzle offence.

Spot on ryandao1,if JT can get them to play with a solid defensive structure in place, the attack will come off the back of that structure..I have said this before,Bennett stated at an interview once,"we have a structure in place,its simple and the players don't stray from that structure,that's why we win games",people must remember that our young group of players didn't know about NRL structures and therefore JT had to teach them,it wasn't great to watch,however this year they will be better for the experiences of last year..I have had much experience playing rugby league and I can definitely tell you that the long,hard hours of practicing your defense benefit the team in the long run,it is probably the most important basic of the game that I coached the u/14 and u/16 back when I finished playing…as has been said many times" solid defense wins games "....

Steve,if you read this,you can call it spin or whatever you like,I prefer to call it proven facts..

 

[TrueTiger]

SIMPLE SCENARIO FOR STEVE…...

WTs are playing say the Bulldogs...after 10 minutes into the game the Tigers score out wide through some ordinary defense..try converted WT lead 6..0...
Bulldogs throw everything at the Tiges but their defense holds solid and at the end of the game the scoreline stays the same...Tigers win by scoring more points than the opposition and didn't let any points in...simple...get the defense right and you win games....

 

[tigeress]

SIMPLE SCENARIO FOR STEVE…...

WTs are playing say the Bulldogs...after 10 minutes into the game the Tigers score out wide through some ordinary defense..try converted WT lead 6..0...
Bulldogs throw everything at the Tiges but their defense holds solid and at the end of the game the scoreline stays the same...Tigers win by scoring more points than the opposition and didn't let any points in...simple...get the defense right and you win games....

Yep that's right DON"T let the other side score- then we have a pretty good chance of winning. That's the winning formula….........Go Tigers

 

[stevetiger]

SIMPLE SCENARIO FOR STEVE…...

WTs are playing say the Bulldogs...after 10 minutes into the game the Tigers score out wide through some ordinary defense..try converted WT lead 6..0...
Bulldogs throw everything at the Tiges but their defense holds solid and at the end of the game the scoreline stays the same...Tigers win by scoring more points than the opposition and didn't let any points in...simple...get the defense right and you win games....

Simple scenario for you. We score 10\. The opposition scores 9\. Who wins ? Here is another one - we score 50 and the opposition scores 48\. Who wins ?

It is pretty simple.

 

[TrueTiger]

SIMPLE SCENARIO FOR STEVE…...

WTs are playing say the Bulldogs...after 10 minutes into the game the Tigers score out wide through some ordinary defense..try converted WT lead 6..0...
Bulldogs throw everything at the Tiges but their defense holds solid and at the end of the game the scoreline stays the same...Tigers win by scoring more points than the opposition and didn't let any points in...simple...get the defense right and you win games....

Simple scenario for you. We score 10\. The opposition scores 9\. Who wins ? Here is another one - we score 50 and the opposition scores 48\. Who wins ?

It is pretty simple.

Yes Steve you keep convincing yourself with your own answers…

 

[doublesonthemain]

^^^

It doesn't work like that. All that matters is scoring more than the opposition in each game because then you win games. Don't kid yourself that the stats show JT was the best first year coach we've had. He has been the worse.

I don't like the spin. We had a really bad year last year and came 2nd last on points differential. Then we had the Farah debacle. I'm hopeful that JT learned from that experience and we don't have another dud year. If we do I hope we sack the guy. If we have a good year I'd be happy with resigning him.

The team's points differential last year was better than 5 other teams, not great but still a substantial improvement on the previous 2 seasons. And if it improves again this year then we'll be heading in the right direction, if it doesn't then maybe changes need to made. Let's see how things go.

 

[supercoach]

You win games by dominating time in possession, and you dominate possession on the back of great defence. Sounds simple, very hard to achieve with a young inexperienced team