Wests Tigers Team v Cowboys Rd 5

[tony soprano]

Im really enjoying watching Madge change the culture in this club....
Dropping players not performing to NRL standard,including our Icon Benji,at his best -brilliant,however he is getting older and has the worst defensive record this year in the NRL,Madge builds his game on strong defensive plans..
What most don't realise is that there is a number of players in the squad that have not been able to get a run with State Cup being called off due to covid,Madge is giving some a run to get an idea of where they are at and to see if they are NRL quality...if you look at it in perspective he is trying to be as fair as he can while trying to field a strong competitive team..this year is an unprecedented year all around,it has affected not only the NRL but the community as a whole,Madge is doing his best under these circumstances..
Our depth as far as experience and quality, is rather thin and we have many young up and comers that need to get game time and this is Madge doing just that,otherwise he will never know what he has to pick from when injuries or illness hits the team.
Im not one to bang on about not making the finals is another failure,Im more of supporting the coach who is making changes so the club and team will be a success going forward for a number of years to come..
What Madge has done doesn't please everyone...but hard decisions have to be made,he is an NRL level coach,I have faith in what he is trying to achieve...
For those whinging and whining about not making the finals they should go and follow the Roosters or Storm...Iam much happier supporting a hard working coach who is doing his utmost to get this club from the rabble it was to a constantly hard working team that will become a top team in the future..
The Raiders game has given us an insight to where Madge is trying to take this team with what he has got to work with,I will support him all the way as I watch the progress of this team throughout the season..

Well said.

The scary thing is Ricky Stuart out coached Maguire. Stuart Has been bog average up until recently

 

[851]

Been interesting reading the banter. Jennings deservedly has copped the brunt of selection criticism but I do believe that our centre pairing has been less than impressive. BJ for his defensive reads. Even last week, he was the one that raced out of the line and made Wightons made up to cut back in near the line and Mbye offers nothing in attack or taking early set hit ups.

I thought our attack last week lacked direction and variety. The scary bit is that I suspect they are playing to Madge’s game plan. Also the selections are starting to look a tad desperate. I fear we may be in for a very long season of disappointments and an even more controversial off season.

I get the long season of disappointment, but why the controversial off season?

Unfortunately, the prime reason is that we area club that just attracts it. More specifically, if we don’t make the finals, it will be another year of failure coupled with what is likely to be a large player movement. Look at the Mitchell saga. I don’t think he had any serious intention of coming here. If we have cash but don’t attract an appropriate marquee player - the media will ask questions.

Also Madge has a three year deal. This will be the end of the second year and no finals. Questions will be asked regarding extension or expulsion. This will also affect player recruitment.

I hope I am mistaken but the randomness of selection (E.g. Seyfarth , Benji, McIntyre etc) makes me a little nervous that he is running short of ideas.

I have no issue with Benji and Seyfarth watching from the grandstand, but you are right about our inability to attract top line players

 

[851]

Eisenhuth, Jennings and Mcintyre. Cowboys have major injuries and average at best but we will struggle. Too many weak links in our side this week.

Not many other options really. Clark and Seyfarth didn’t set the world on fire either. May as well give Eiso and McIntyre a chance to prove themselves

Madge is for sure sussing out which of these off contract forwards to keep and who to boot. Then he can sign some new guys hopefully but that’s a while away

Great system, don't worry about winning games, just try out players.

Obviously he has given up on the 2020 season by the look of it.

None of the bench forwards have done that well, why not give the other guys a go? It’s more that than anything, we need someone to prove themselves and lock down that bench spot. No ones given up on the season especially not Madge ? also helps keep the squad fitness up.

Should he have not had an idea who would be our best rotation rather than trial and error every week? By the time he’s done experimenting the season will be out of our grasp. I’m with @Russell on this one.

How would he know if he’s not given these guys a chance, there’s no reserve grade either. The whole team is set, it’s pretty much 2-3 bench spots that are an issue. That’s because the players haven’t been good enough how can you blame that on the coach. Hes also keeping players fit something storm and other clubs are doing as well.

Would he not be able to get an idea at training who is performing better than others? Isn't it his job to know who his best 17 are? This is his second full season, he should be all over that by now. He's blaming the changes on attitude but really, he just made the wrong selections. The buck stops with him.

Also, what's the point of keeping the players fit if we're not winning games. For us it should be our best 17 every week don't you think?

Training is completely different from actual games, he picked the hardest working guys (Packer, Seyfarth) and they went pretty average out there on the field so tough to say he just made the wrong selections

You’re acting like he’s picked a whole different team from last week, he made three changes and two of them were forced. After the titans game he made changes and it clearly worked the team played way better.

He absolutely made the wrong selections. He got it wrong. As @Geo posted last week a vast majority of the starting team have been signed or re-signed by Madge. There has to come a time where he becomes accountable.

Selections for which game were wrong? The titans game? They won the week before you’re not gonna make major changes

From the start of the season. We were lucky as hell to beat St George, got bent over by Newcastle, beat Cronulla then got done by the Titans and the Raiders.

Easy to look in hindsight mate. What 1-17 are you picking to play the rest of the year?

I'm not the coach, he is. And he gets paid a lot of money to make those decisions. At the moment it looks like he's using a dartboard to select his bench each week.

Again, he’s dropping players who didn’t play good enough. Not sure why you’re against that?

Because they weren't good enough to be selected in the first place.

Then who was? There’s not many options mate ? they’re all considered ‘plodders’ on this forums.

Eisenhuth is a massive plodder but at least he's a good defender. Musgrove 30kg overweight is more effective than Clark/Seyfarth.

Let's remember our bench was Seyfarth/Clark as our middle rotation with Rowdy coming on for 10 minutes for zero impact at the end. That is not good bench selection and even worse interchange management.

Avo,Im not having a go at you mate,but your opinion regarding what Madge has to select from and what they give him on game day is something out of your league.
Madge can only select what he thinks will deliver him on the field,Benji has been great over the years and as I have said before Madge builds his gameplan on defence and Benji has been an absolute liability in that area.
Constant criticism of the coach when not knowing the full extent of his positional needs and player quality to deliver those needs is showing a lack of understanding what it takes to field a quality team..

I want him to succeed more than anything but he's been here for 2 seasons and 12 of the 17 players we have playing on Saturday have been signed or re-signed by him. He needs to be accountable and if we don't make the 8 this year it's unacceptable. That's just my opinion.

You keep on disregarding the fact he doesn't have the full salary cap at his disposal. Yes 12 of the 17 have been signed on by him, but what percentage of the salary cap do they take up?

The bloke has continually signed quality juniours, which is a massive bonus. Sure, some may not turn out to be NRL standard, but it sure does look like some will. Harry Grant certainly is, fingers crossed we can somehow keep him. There's massive wraps on Blore and Stefano, not to mention all the development players etc he has brought to the club.

Let's see what the team looks like in a couple of years when Madge has Reynolds, Packer and Mbye's salaries to play with.

Sadly, this stuff takes time.

Thanks again Ivan (the bloke you should be directing your frustration at)

Gonna be interesting to see who Madge signs for next year. I’m assuming almost all our off contract players will be let go. Hopefully his ties with the NZ team can help us sign some good players

Yep. Let's get rid of some of the rot that's been festering here for way too long. The other fools like Reynolds, Mbye and Packer that have been here for free ride are next. However, not their fault, WTs agreed to the contract terms had have been paying for it ever since. Will we learn, lets wait and see.

Reynolds has not had a free ride by any stretch, he has been made to play for Wests quite a number of times, something Benji and Brooks should have been doing but were never made to, Reynolds has a dig when given a go, not his fault he is on a marquee salary

 

[tigerap]

Been interesting reading the banter. Jennings deservedly has copped the brunt of selection criticism but I do believe that our centre pairing has been less than impressive. BJ for his defensive reads. Even last week, he was the one that raced out of the line and made Wightons made up to cut back in near the line and Mbye offers nothing in attack or taking early set hit ups.

I thought our attack last week lacked direction and variety. The scary bit is that I suspect they are playing to Madge’s game plan. Also the selections are starting to look a tad desperate. I fear we may be in for a very long season of disappointments and an even more controversial off season.

I get the long season of disappointment, but why the controversial off season?

Unfortunately, the prime reason is that we area club that just attracts it. More specifically, if we don’t make the finals, it will be another year of failure coupled with what is likely to be a large player movement. Look at the Mitchell saga. I don’t think he had any serious intention of coming here. If we have cash but don’t attract an appropriate marquee player - the media will ask questions.

Also Madge has a three year deal. This will be the end of the second year and no finals. Questions will be asked regarding extension or expulsion. This will also affect player recruitment.

I hope I am mistaken but the randomness of selection (E.g. Seyfarth , Benji, McIntyre etc) makes me a little nervous that he is running short of ideas.

I have no issue with Benji and Seyfarth watching from the grandstand, but you are right about our inability to attract top line players

This is where we should be targeting Pommie players, I’m sure there are plenty that can play in the NRL, we just need a good scout to find and sign them... I mean if Dogs who are a shambles of a club can attract a top line Pommie prop, we can do the same....but we don’t???

 

[Tim Sheens]

We basically played the dreaded Taylor Ball on the weekend, in another second season of coaching by the incumbent, in potentially our ninth successive year of not playing finals footy, currently sitting ninth once again and some are saying we should just accept that as our fate as we are rebuilding.

If Maguire is half as good as many on here think/thought him to be, then WT should be playing the first week of finals at the bare minimum. He says that he has assembled a capable squad that he believes in, so it is up to him to carry out his remit, with failure not an option in these circumstances.

Definitely no pass mark from my end if we don't make the eight!

It is a bit of a concern that with Maguire being here for the twelve months the team seems not to of progressed that much at all . I am in agreement that there is no pass mark this season ... instead of where heading in the right direction it would be preferable at this time to see some quality coaching and a team that had some other options other than 5 up and kick !

Yeah, my main issue is that there is a focus on a very pedestrian, monotone style approach, even when we are getting dominated in the guts. We used to make gains with a quick long shift to break down the dominant compact defence, yet that has been curtailed at the expense of our relatively inexperienced youngsters getting bashed in the middle.

I understand a partial back to basics approach to form a base, but as you stated, this is not an incoming coach, rather one that should have had that sorted last season and progressed, with what is probably as close or closer to being his squad, as it is for half of his peers at rival clubs.

Sure, the new ruck rules have made for a reasonably large change, but the better coaches should be able to readily adapt their game plans.

 

[Harvey]


here we see Jennings showcasing to us what Kyle Feldt will do to him on Saturday


:grimacing:

No wonder Brooks struggles. Those attacking kicks that wingers (Jennings) cannot defend at training do not seem to work so well against our oponents.

 

[Harvey]

We basically played the dreaded Taylor Ball on the weekend, in another second season of coaching by the incumbent, in potentially our ninth successive year of not playing finals footy, currently sitting ninth once again and some are saying we should just accept that as our fate as we are rebuilding.

If Maguire is half as good as many on here think/thought him to be, then WT should be playing the first week of finals at the bare minimum. He says that he has assembled a capable squad that he believes in, so it is up to him to carry out his remit, with failure not an option in these circumstances.

Definitely no pass mark from my end if we don't make the eight!

It is a bit of a concern that with Maguire being here for the twelve months the team seems not to of progressed that much at all . I am in agreement that there is no pass mark this season ... instead of where heading in the right direction it would be preferable at this time to see some quality coaching and a team that had some other options other than 5 up and kick !

Yeah, my main issue is that there is a focus on a very pedestrian, monotone style approach, even when we are getting dominated in the guts. We used to make gains with a quick long shift to break down the dominant compact defence, yet that has been curtailed at the expense of our relatively inexperienced youngsters getting bashed in the middle.

I understand a partial back to basics approach to form a base, but as you stated, this is not an incoming coach, rather one that should have had that sorted last season and progressed, with what is probably as close or closer to being his squad, as it is for half of his peers at rival clubs.

Sure, the new ruck rules have made for a reasonably large change, but the better coaches should be able to readily adapt their game plans.

My biggest concern is the bench rotation, it is terrible. For a coach that supposedly focuses on fitness there seem to be a lot of gassed players (particularly forwards) asked to stay on the field.

 

[balmain boy]

Interesting to see Hoffman marking Nof and featuring prominently in the photos from training. A definite chance to replace Jennings

 

[Tim Sheens]

Interesting to see Hoffman marking Nof and featuring prominently in the photos from training. A definite chance to replace Jennings

Could well be a smokescreen to keep him out of the media spotlight and based on the performance a fortnight back, the young fella couldn't do much worse. Never confident in Jennings finding his way to the line when the opposition is within cooee of him.

 

[JC99]

We basically played the dreaded Taylor Ball on the weekend, in another second season of coaching by the incumbent, in potentially our ninth successive year of not playing finals footy, currently sitting ninth once again and some are saying we should just accept that as our fate as we are rebuilding.

If Maguire is half as good as many on here think/thought him to be, then WT should be playing the first week of finals at the bare minimum. He says that he has assembled a capable squad that he believes in, so it is up to him to carry out his remit, with failure not an option in these circumstances.

Definitely no pass mark from my end if we don't make the eight!

It is a bit of a concern that with Maguire being here for the twelve months the team seems not to of progressed that much at all . I am in agreement that there is no pass mark this season ... instead of where heading in the right direction it would be preferable at this time to see some quality coaching and a team that had some other options other than 5 up and kick !

Yeah, my main issue is that there is a focus on a very pedestrian, monotone style approach, even when we are getting dominated in the guts. We used to make gains with a quick long shift to break down the dominant compact defence, yet that has been curtailed at the expense of our relatively inexperienced youngsters getting bashed in the middle.

I understand a partial back to basics approach to form a base, but as you stated, this is not an incoming coach, rather one that should have had that sorted last season and progressed, with what is probably as close or closer to being his squad, as it is for half of his peers at rival clubs.

Sure, the new ruck rules have made for a reasonably large change, but the better coaches should be able to readily adapt their game plans.

My biggest concern is the bench rotation, it is terrible. For a coach that supposedly focuses on fitness there seem to be a lot of gassed players (particularly forwards) asked to stay on the field.

I didn’t see anyone gassed our forwards play the normal minutes any forward does with Twal being the exception but he’s killing it.

 

[tigerballs]

Interesting to see Hoffman marking Nof and featuring prominently in the photos from training. A definite chance to replace Jennings

100% starting.

 

[tony soprano]

Interesting to see Hoffman marking Nof and featuring prominently in the photos from training. A definite chance to replace Jennings

100% starting.

Not ready from what I saw in the trial.

 

[balmain boy]

Interesting to see Hoffman marking Nof and featuring prominently in the photos from training. A definite chance to replace Jennings

100% starting.

Not ready from what I saw in the trial.

He scored the try that nof couldn't last week...

He's young, and not super fast, but physically he's the match of Jennings and probably a tad quicker than Jennings and Nof.

Defence is the only question, but we know he'll bust his ass for the chance.

Still only 50/50 chance. He's impressed everyone since he arrived last year. Other youngsters have /are getting their chance. He will soon. If not this week then soon. Not like we have many options in the backs as it stands anyway

 

[bbobb]

We basically played the dreaded Taylor Ball on the weekend, in another second season of coaching by the incumbent, in potentially our ninth successive year of not playing finals footy, currently sitting ninth once again and some are saying we should just accept that as our fate as we are rebuilding.

If Maguire is half as good as many on here think/thought him to be, then WT should be playing the first week of finals at the bare minimum. He says that he has assembled a capable squad that he believes in, so it is up to him to carry out his remit, with failure not an option in these circumstances.

Definitely no pass mark from my end if we don't make the eight!

I am not sure how to do a poll but would be interested to know who would extend Madge if we don't make the 8 this year? Normally, coaches are extended well before the end of their tenure, so if we don’t extend him coming into his final season does that say something?

Personally, I think he will see his contract out. Not sure about an extension though.

 

[Telltails]

Can't believe anyone thinks this squad should make the eight this year. Ridiculous expectation when to do that one of the Roosters Melbourne Canberra Penrith Parramatta Newcastle Manly South's Broncos would have to miss out. Not even including the Cowboys who also have a probably the most damaging player in the game amongst other talent. Take the blinkers off no one would rate us above any of those teams..
If we do make it will be because one or more of those teams have not performed to their potential and we have exceeded ours.

 

[colinbh]

Im really enjoying watching Madge change the culture in this club....
Dropping players not performing to NRL standard,including our Icon Benji,at his best -brilliant,however he is getting older and has the worst defensive record this year in the NRL,Madge builds his game on strong defensive plans..
What most don't realise is that there is a number of players in the squad that have not been able to get a run with State Cup being called off due to covid,Madge is giving some a run to get an idea of where they are at and to see if they are NRL quality...if you look at it in perspective he is trying to be as fair as he can while trying to field a strong competitive team..this year is an unprecedented year all around,it has affected not only the NRL but the community as a whole,Madge is doing his best under these circumstances..
Our depth as far as experience and quality, is rather thin and we have many young up and comers that need to get game time and this is Madge doing just that,otherwise he will never know what he has to pick from when injuries or illness hits the team.
Im not one to bang on about not making the finals is another failure,Im more of supporting the coach who is making changes so the club and team will be a success going forward for a number of years to come..
What Madge has done doesn't please everyone...but hard decisions have to be made,he is an NRL level coach,I have faith in what he is trying to achieve...
For those whinging and whining about not making the finals they should go and follow the Roosters or Storm...Iam much happier supporting a hard working coach who is doing his utmost to get this club from the rabble it was to a constantly hard working team that will become a top team in the future..
The Raiders game has given us an insight to where Madge is trying to take this team with what he has got to work with,I will support him all the way as I watch the progress of this team throughout the season..

Well said.

The scary thing is Ricky Stuart out coached Maguire. Stuart Has been bog average up until recently

I wonder what the result would have been if they had had a player sin binned?

 

[Tcat]

We basically played the dreaded Taylor Ball on the weekend, in another second season of coaching by the incumbent, in potentially our ninth successive year of not playing finals footy, currently sitting ninth once again and some are saying we should just accept that as our fate as we are rebuilding.

If Maguire is half as good as many on here think/thought him to be, then WT should be playing the first week of finals at the bare minimum. He says that he has assembled a capable squad that he believes in, so it is up to him to carry out his remit, with failure not an option in these circumstances.

Definitely no pass mark from my end if we don't make the eight!

I am not sure how to do a poll but would be interested to know who would extend Madge if we don't make the 8 this year? Normally, coaches are extended well before the end of their tenure, so if we don’t extend him coming into his final season does that say something?

Personally, I think he will see his contract out. Not sure about an extension though.

I think Madge should be extended. He needs time to change the squad properly as well as the mentality of the playing group. He can't exactly come out and say I don't think we'll make the 8 this year. He needs to give us some hope.

 

[Snake]

Under no circumstances should Maguire be given an extension until early next season... making the 8 is not the issue with an extension it’s the fact that the team looks like a very poorly coached side Atm!
For me there is way to much talk about what is trying to be done , there will be a large turn over in the roster at seasons end so any talk of an extension should be left until at least round 8 next season .
It is seeing an evolving team culture and a structured brand of play that happens with most other winning teams that certainly is not being presented at present .
Am I sold on Maguire at this stage not enough for an extension ... maybe seeing something different other than 5 up and a kick could be a start!!

 

[GNR4LIFE]

We basically played the dreaded Taylor Ball on the weekend, in another second season of coaching by the incumbent, in potentially our ninth successive year of not playing finals footy, currently sitting ninth once again and some are saying we should just accept that as our fate as we are rebuilding.

If Maguire is half as good as many on here think/thought him to be, then WT should be playing the first week of finals at the bare minimum. He says that he has assembled a capable squad that he believes in, so it is up to him to carry out his remit, with failure not an option in these circumstances.

Definitely no pass mark from my end if we don't make the eight!

I am not sure how to do a poll but would be interested to know who would extend Madge if we don't make the 8 this year? Normally, coaches are extended well before the end of their tenure, so if we don’t extend him coming into his final season does that say something?

Personally, I think he will see his contract out. Not sure about an extension though.

I think Madge should be extended. He needs time to change the squad properly as well as the mentality of the playing group. He can't exactly come out and say I don't think we'll make the 8 this year. He needs to give us some hope.

He probably doesn’t come out and say it because he probably doesn’t believe it to be true. We’re 5 rounds in to the an abreiviated season and only out of the 8 on P/D. If he truly believed we couldn’t make the 8 from here, why’s he in the job? I guarantee you he would not be looking towards next year, and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

As for the squad, he’s in his second year, and I’d say a good 75% of the squad he has either signed or re-signed. That excuse is one you trot out when the coach is battling on with a squad that his successor put together.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Under no circumstances should Maguire be given an extension until early next season... making the 8 is not the issue with an extension it’s the fact that the team looks like a very poorly coached side Atm!
For me there is way to much talk about what is trying to be done , there will be a large turn over in the roster at seasons end so any talk of an extension should be left until at least round 8 next season .
It is seeing an evolving team culture and a structured brand of play that happens with most other winning teams that certainly is not being presented at present .
Am I sold on Maguire at this stage not enough for an extension ... maybe seeing something different other than 5 up and a kick could be a start!!

I stopped believing making the 8 was a marker for an extension when in 2016, people would have burnt their jersey’s if we had beaten the Raiders in the final round and JT was extended as a result.