Wests Tigers v Penrith Trial *Live Thread

[Demps]

Geez. Its like the record( big piece of black vinyl that plays music for the youngins) is stuck at this time every year. I will say the same thing I say at this time year after year, it’s a bloody TRIAL!!!! Wait until competition proper before panicking.

I understand what your saying ...but you have players playing for their positions , contracts ....maybe their careers ......

A lot of concerns out of tonight's game ...Madge has a heap of work to turn that performance around

Yes, it was a trial for the other team as well, but they showed up.

**Some people are comfortably 9th**.
Majority of us won't settle for this mediocrity.
Time to crack the whip.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

:laughing: Hows the ladder sitting after this weekends trials.

Are u gonna try and have a dig at me ?

Once again the loser brigade are happy with a loss.

Every game is a game we should aim to win.

"It's just a trial. It's just the nines."


Maybe some of yas are so use to being losers that u don't even care about the results.

Not me and @Milky tho.
We're out here to win the big prizes and take the prom queen home.

If you're happy coming 9th and losing games please join @Furious1 in the loser corner.

If we perform like that most weeks 9th will be a miracle

Well let’s hope our team isn’t packed with Flegg players like it was last night ?

Which still leads to my next question ...we probably fielded the weakest squad of all 16 sides bar the teams with heavy All Star involvement

So have the 15 other clubs got it wrong or do we have it right .....

This is code for “my irrational rant has been debunked, now I’m forced to pivot and complain about something else”

Was exactly the same comment I made earlier GNR

This isn't the 9's it is the 2nd last chance to get it right before Rd 1

We will have 2 new players in our spine and multiple changes to our backline

I would have thought to be testing our new recruits in game time conditions is crucial and having them build some combinations before Rd 1 even more crucial

Add to the fact Douehi has been here for what 3 weeks

We aren't the Roosters or Melbourne and afford a slow start to the season ....we will need to win every winnable game

Maybe it's old school , but your best 17 should be playing at least 75% of the game imo and you give 20 minutes to some of the players who might be a chance of pushing for a NRL spot

Becoming like cricket ....don't want to overload the poor preciouses /princesses

That is rubbish! I don't want our key players playing anymore than 1 trial game. Last night was a cc trial for us pure and simple, we included a couple of NRL players that we thought needed an extra run!

Yep and as usual we ignore what many others NRL sides did with their trial games and dance to the beat of our own drums

What's that definition of insanity ......

Seriously? Both Brisbane and Gold Coast lost to second string sides lets do that!

I thought you were intelligent .....what the difference between many and all ....

Its funny ...I bring this same argument virtually every season and we get have for the last 3/4 from seasons got the same result .....9th and B/ no finals ...but your opinion is right along with the others who argue this point

Says more about your opinions than mine I'd reckon

After our last trial in 2005 we were predicted to win the wooden spoon. I f you do a little research I think you will find trial results have very impact on who makes the finals.

I do understand the difference between all and many but you also used the term that we danced to the beat of our own drum by not taking the trial seriously. Well we obviously didn't dance to the beat of our own drum because 2 teams took them so easy they lost to lower level teams!

We aren't the standard run of the mill NRL side and comparing this current side to a current NRL side is a mistake

We've made many changes to the squad and they need as much game time as possible together

If any club in this comp knows anything about losing the winnable games it is the WT's ...we drop this game v Saints and we will rue it in Rd 25

Other sides can have slow starts and recover ..we can't ...don't believe me ..watch what happens if we start 0-2

If
What if
Why is everyone so pessimistic
It's a trial with reserve graders

Apparently it was a must win game!

Every game is.
What don't u corner boys understand about that?

The reason why every kids get an award these days even if they come last.... no competitive spirit.

Nope a trial is not must win depending on what you wish to achieve in the trial!

Are u kidding me...
The whole point of sport is to achieve.... the win.

It's not a "lets have fun, everyone's a winner today" experience... I've identified the 9th place cuddle buddy's and I'd like to welcome u to the corner.

Me and @hobbo1 over here in the winners bar with the champagne, #winners circle.

Yep winning when it matters is what is important. What if we are in a must win game in rd 26 and we have had to pick Madden, the experienced gained last night could be the difference between winning and losing that game. So I'll let you have your champagne after our next trial win and I will wait to it is actually something to celebrate!

But whats the use of playing Madden if you are going to play 2nd stringers with him anyway ...if you play three of the regular spine with him fine

Look at the side ....Rd 1 we have a new fullback who didn't start training until 3 weeks ago , at least one new centre who was another late signing , possibly a new back rower , new prop and new hooker

They need as much time as possible to gel cohesively

I swear some on here have never played a game before in their lives

I honestly don't think we will be anywhere near in sync by Rd 1

Buts its ok , we will blame the refs , the NRL and anything other than the actual issue .....

DeTigerized

I have played a lot of football along with a lot of other sports, yes our combinations are going to be behind to start with, that is why I was very critical of our recruitment over the offseason but 50mins of extra game time is going to make very little difference.

Problem with picking Madden with the other spine members is you don't know he is going to be the one you are relying on, what if it is one of the other players who played and gained invaluable experience last night? You guys are just searching for something to whinge about.

So next organize a trial for the CC boys with some Group squad and then the senior squad has 2 trials ....so they are ready RD 1

Sport is as much mental as it is physical and they go into Rd 1 unconfident and not trusting in one another they will go down quicker than a 20 cent ..... you get the drift

Most sides have moved away from that format now! Most regular 1st graders only play one trial now days!

Well with the way the game is now evolving with late trades /transfer etc happening I think a return to 2 trials makes perfect sense

Confidence is an amazing thing ...just as much as a lack of confidence is the same

As you said most 1st graders ...we can't get off to a bad start ....losing to the Saints I think would be crushing for the club

An 0/2 or 0/3 start could be curtains ...we have a lot of confidence players , hell of a lot actually ....

Winning is winning my brother...
Madge wants to change the culture at the club.

Maybe we as fans need to get on board instead of being apologists like @Cochise and tolerating such a pitiful loss... 9s, trials, game of freaking ping pong. Aim to win. Not make up excuses, "aw the coach wanted to see how they go under pressure" no, no, no... we want to win. We want the trophy at the end of the year. We don't wanna be dressing up as mario having a few beers cos we didn't live up to our potential.

If you want to win I'd suggest entering some trials for your debating skills as you are being flogged at the moment. I am incredibly competitive but trials are a glorified training session!

You're just proving why you're the captain of the loser corner mate....

You go tell Matheson Johns that it was a training session... He was ready to punch on for the club whilst we got flops like u trying justify why winning isn't important as long as we learnt something... All we learnt was Reynolds is garbage but we already knew that.

Yeah but if you picked the side Johns wouldn't have played and had a chance to show what he did! Because the only goal of a trial should be to win after all!

You're the one clutching at straws now brah.
Conversation ended already I thought.
No hard feelings......

Be gracious in defeat brah. You're happy to lose. Keep it up.

Point is I didn't lose, no 9th place finish for me!

Betamale response.

Not bad when coming from an Omega male!

?
Like I said bra.. no hard feelings.

Definitely no hard feelings here, I had fun and won, so 2 results here!

Yeah mate as i said collect your #Participation award and head to the corner...

9th place boyyyyyy

 

[cochise]

Geez. Its like the record( big piece of black vinyl that plays music for the youngins) is stuck at this time every year. I will say the same thing I say at this time year after year, it’s a bloody TRIAL!!!! Wait until competition proper before panicking.

I understand what your saying ...but you have players playing for their positions , contracts ....maybe their careers ......

A lot of concerns out of tonight's game ...Madge has a heap of work to turn that performance around

Yes, it was a trial for the other team as well, but they showed up.

**Some people are comfortably 9th**.
Majority of us won't settle for this mediocrity.
Time to crack the whip.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

:laughing: Hows the ladder sitting after this weekends trials.

Are u gonna try and have a dig at me ?

Once again the loser brigade are happy with a loss.

Every game is a game we should aim to win.

"It's just a trial. It's just the nines."


Maybe some of yas are so use to being losers that u don't even care about the results.

Not me and @Milky tho.
We're out here to win the big prizes and take the prom queen home.

If you're happy coming 9th and losing games please join @Furious1 in the loser corner.

If we perform like that most weeks 9th will be a miracle

Well let’s hope our team isn’t packed with Flegg players like it was last night ?

Which still leads to my next question ...we probably fielded the weakest squad of all 16 sides bar the teams with heavy All Star involvement

So have the 15 other clubs got it wrong or do we have it right .....

This is code for “my irrational rant has been debunked, now I’m forced to pivot and complain about something else”

Was exactly the same comment I made earlier GNR

This isn't the 9's it is the 2nd last chance to get it right before Rd 1

We will have 2 new players in our spine and multiple changes to our backline

I would have thought to be testing our new recruits in game time conditions is crucial and having them build some combinations before Rd 1 even more crucial

Add to the fact Douehi has been here for what 3 weeks

We aren't the Roosters or Melbourne and afford a slow start to the season ....we will need to win every winnable game

Maybe it's old school , but your best 17 should be playing at least 75% of the game imo and you give 20 minutes to some of the players who might be a chance of pushing for a NRL spot

Becoming like cricket ....don't want to overload the poor preciouses /princesses

That is rubbish! I don't want our key players playing anymore than 1 trial game. Last night was a cc trial for us pure and simple, we included a couple of NRL players that we thought needed an extra run!

Yep and as usual we ignore what many others NRL sides did with their trial games and dance to the beat of our own drums

What's that definition of insanity ......

Seriously? Both Brisbane and Gold Coast lost to second string sides lets do that!

I thought you were intelligent .....what the difference between many and all ....

Its funny ...I bring this same argument virtually every season and we get have for the last 3/4 from seasons got the same result .....9th and B/ no finals ...but your opinion is right along with the others who argue this point

Says more about your opinions than mine I'd reckon

After our last trial in 2005 we were predicted to win the wooden spoon. I f you do a little research I think you will find trial results have very impact on who makes the finals.

I do understand the difference between all and many but you also used the term that we danced to the beat of our own drum by not taking the trial seriously. Well we obviously didn't dance to the beat of our own drum because 2 teams took them so easy they lost to lower level teams!

We aren't the standard run of the mill NRL side and comparing this current side to a current NRL side is a mistake

We've made many changes to the squad and they need as much game time as possible together

If any club in this comp knows anything about losing the winnable games it is the WT's ...we drop this game v Saints and we will rue it in Rd 25

Other sides can have slow starts and recover ..we can't ...don't believe me ..watch what happens if we start 0-2

If
What if
Why is everyone so pessimistic
It's a trial with reserve graders

Apparently it was a must win game!

Every game is.
What don't u corner boys understand about that?

The reason why every kids get an award these days even if they come last.... no competitive spirit.

Nope a trial is not must win depending on what you wish to achieve in the trial!

Are u kidding me...
The whole point of sport is to achieve.... the win.

It's not a "lets have fun, everyone's a winner today" experience... I've identified the 9th place cuddle buddy's and I'd like to welcome u to the corner.

Me and @hobbo1 over here in the winners bar with the champagne, #winners circle.

Yep winning when it matters is what is important. What if we are in a must win game in rd 26 and we have had to pick Madden, the experienced gained last night could be the difference between winning and losing that game. So I'll let you have your champagne after our next trial win and I will wait to it is actually something to celebrate!

But whats the use of playing Madden if you are going to play 2nd stringers with him anyway ...if you play three of the regular spine with him fine

Look at the side ....Rd 1 we have a new fullback who didn't start training until 3 weeks ago , at least one new centre who was another late signing , possibly a new back rower , new prop and new hooker

They need as much time as possible to gel cohesively

I swear some on here have never played a game before in their lives

I honestly don't think we will be anywhere near in sync by Rd 1

Buts its ok , we will blame the refs , the NRL and anything other than the actual issue .....

DeTigerized

I have played a lot of football along with a lot of other sports, yes our combinations are going to be behind to start with, that is why I was very critical of our recruitment over the offseason but 50mins of extra game time is going to make very little difference.

Problem with picking Madden with the other spine members is you don't know he is going to be the one you are relying on, what if it is one of the other players who played and gained invaluable experience last night? You guys are just searching for something to whinge about.

So next organize a trial for the CC boys with some Group squad and then the senior squad has 2 trials ....so they are ready RD 1

Sport is as much mental as it is physical and they go into Rd 1 unconfident and not trusting in one another they will go down quicker than a 20 cent ..... you get the drift

Most sides have moved away from that format now! Most regular 1st graders only play one trial now days!

Well with the way the game is now evolving with late trades /transfer etc happening I think a return to 2 trials makes perfect sense

Confidence is an amazing thing ...just as much as a lack of confidence is the same

As you said most 1st graders ...we can't get off to a bad start ....losing to the Saints I think would be crushing for the club

An 0/2 or 0/3 start could be curtains ...we have a lot of confidence players , hell of a lot actually ....

Winning is winning my brother...
Madge wants to change the culture at the club.

Maybe we as fans need to get on board instead of being apologists like @Cochise and tolerating such a pitiful loss... 9s, trials, game of freaking ping pong. Aim to win. Not make up excuses, "aw the coach wanted to see how they go under pressure" no, no, no... we want to win. We want the trophy at the end of the year. We don't wanna be dressing up as mario having a few beers cos we didn't live up to our potential.

If you want to win I'd suggest entering some trials for your debating skills as you are being flogged at the moment. I am incredibly competitive but trials are a glorified training session!

You're just proving why you're the captain of the loser corner mate....

You go tell Matheson Johns that it was a training session... He was ready to punch on for the club whilst we got flops like u trying justify why winning isn't important as long as we learnt something... All we learnt was Reynolds is garbage but we already knew that.

Yeah but if you picked the side Johns wouldn't have played and had a chance to show what he did! Because the only goal of a trial should be to win after all!

You're the one clutching at straws now brah.
Conversation ended already I thought.
No hard feelings......

Be gracious in defeat brah. You're happy to lose. Keep it up.

Point is I didn't lose, no 9th place finish for me!

Betamale response.

Not bad when coming from an Omega male!

?
Like I said bra.. no hard feelings.

Definitely no hard feelings here, I had fun and won, so 2 results here!

Yeah mate as i said collect your #Participation award and head to the corner...

9th place boyyyyyy

Man do I hate participation awards but that is another topic lol

 

[Demps]


 

[cochise]


Thanks for the acknowledgement of my victory and for confirming you look like Newman!

 

[NT_Tiger]

This is why I don’t get into deep debate in the forum - because some posters cannot think outside their own own paradigm.

I hate the culture of 9th at the Tigers but the argument suggesting Saturday’s trial reinforced that culture is ridiculous.
There was lots to glean from that trial and I’m sure the coaching staff took lots from it, but the capitulation of our third string side against a strong panthers backline, with 75% possession is not of any concern.

The weakest form of debate is to personally criticise and ridicule those you are debating. Sure sign of weakness imo.

‘Captain of the loser corner’ Really? Pathetic comment

Lollllz lighten up Steve
Don't be afraid to be yaself and voice your opinion....

Only thing you're gonna be met with is some naysayer saying they don't agree with u.
I'm just having fun.

However I would like to distance the club from the stigma of being a 9th place club every year. It's humiliating seeing that something we all love is now a meme. Laughing stock even. This is the loser corner we've got ourselves in and culture change is needed to remove ourselves from this pathetic reputation we've gained.

Bit of respect for people mate - not hard.

As far as your last paragraph- 100% agree. We must change culture. Trials ain’t the place imo but you think differently. No worries, let’s leave it at that.


Yes, I can see you're just having a laugh.

 

[Tiger_Steve]


But in many of your posts you reference yourself as the winner, the alpha male. You know, all that crap...

 

[cktiger]


But in many of your posts you reference yourself as the winner, the alpha male. You know, all that crap...

Yep ... but maybe not.

 

[balmain boy]

Holy crap there's a lot of useless dribble in this thread. It's a trial. No one (bar happy and demps) gives a stuff about trials.

A bit of fitness, a little chance to blow the cobwebs out. Rarely played with any intensity by any club.

They picked a more senior side and beat our flegg side in the second half. Who. Gives. A stuff.

 

[Cairnstigers]

Geez. Its like the record( big piece of black vinyl that plays music for the youngins) is stuck at this time every year. I will say the same thing I say at this time year after year, it’s a bloody TRIAL!!!! Wait until competition proper before panicking.

I understand what your saying ...but you have players playing for their positions , contracts ....maybe their careers ......

A lot of concerns out of tonight's game ...Madge has a heap of work to turn that performance around

Yes, it was a trial for the other team as well, but they showed up.

**Some people are comfortably 9th**.
Majority of us won't settle for this mediocrity.
Time to crack the whip.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

:laughing: Hows the ladder sitting after this weekends trials.

Are u gonna try and have a dig at me ?

Once again the loser brigade are happy with a loss.

Every game is a game we should aim to win.

"It's just a trial. It's just the nines."


Maybe some of yas are so use to being losers that u don't even care about the results.

Not me and @Milky tho.
We're out here to win the big prizes and take the prom queen home.

If you're happy coming 9th and losing games please join @Furious1 in the loser corner.

If we perform like that most weeks 9th will be a miracle

Well let’s hope our team isn’t packed with Flegg players like it was last night ?

Which still leads to my next question ...we probably fielded the weakest squad of all 16 sides bar the teams with heavy All Star involvement

So have the 15 other clubs got it wrong or do we have it right .....

This is code for “my irrational rant has been debunked, now I’m forced to pivot and complain about something else”

Was exactly the same comment I made earlier GNR

This isn't the 9's it is the 2nd last chance to get it right before Rd 1

We will have 2 new players in our spine and multiple changes to our backline

I would have thought to be testing our new recruits in game time conditions is crucial and having them build some combinations before Rd 1 even more crucial

Add to the fact Douehi has been here for what 3 weeks

We aren't the Roosters or Melbourne and afford a slow start to the season ....we will need to win every winnable game

Maybe it's old school , but your best 17 should be playing at least 75% of the game imo and you give 20 minutes to some of the players who might be a chance of pushing for a NRL spot

Becoming like cricket ....don't want to overload the poor preciouses /princesses

That is rubbish! I don't want our key players playing anymore than 1 trial game. Last night was a cc trial for us pure and simple, we included a couple of NRL players that we thought needed an extra run!

Yep and as usual we ignore what many others NRL sides did with their trial games and dance to the beat of our own drums

What's that definition of insanity ......

Seriously? Both Brisbane and Gold Coast lost to second string sides lets do that!

I thought you were intelligent .....what the difference between many and all ....

Its funny ...I bring this same argument virtually every season and we get have for the last 3/4 from seasons got the same result .....9th and B/ no finals ...but your opinion is right along with the others who argue this point

Says more about your opinions than mine I'd reckon

After our last trial in 2005 we were predicted to win the wooden spoon. I f you do a little research I think you will find trial results have very impact on who makes the finals.

I do understand the difference between all and many but you also used the term that we danced to the beat of our own drum by not taking the trial seriously. Well we obviously didn't dance to the beat of our own drum because 2 teams took them so easy they lost to lower level teams!

We aren't the standard run of the mill NRL side and comparing this current side to a current NRL side is a mistake

We've made many changes to the squad and they need as much game time as possible together

If any club in this comp knows anything about losing the winnable games it is the WT's ...we drop this game v Saints and we will rue it in Rd 25

Other sides can have slow starts and recover ..we can't ...don't believe me ..watch what happens if we start 0-2

If
What if
Why is everyone so pessimistic
It's a trial with reserve graders

Apparently it was a must win game!

Every game is.
What don't u corner boys understand about that?

The reason why every kids get an award these days even if they come last.... no competitive spirit.

Nope a trial is not must win depending on what you wish to achieve in the trial!

Are u kidding me...
The whole point of sport is to achieve.... the win.

It's not a "lets have fun, everyone's a winner today" experience... I've identified the 9th place cuddle buddy's and I'd like to welcome u to the corner.

Me and @hobbo1 over here in the winners bar with the champagne, #winners circle.

For winners you sure seem to complain alot

 

[Cairnstigers]

We all want our team to win the big prize
There is no question about that
No point in crying over spilt milk at breakfast
I'm waiting for the main course
And I want a succulent 1kg medium/rare Rib eye with a green pepper corn cream sauce, crispy fries and fresh steamed broccoli chased with a schooner of 4pines pale ale
Some of you guys can lick the milk off the floor from you spilt Weet-Bix

 

[JC99]

Douehi training @ Centre......

Was great last night and is our best fullback by a country mile. Unless injured, can’t envisage a scenario where he’s not fullback round 1.

I must have been watching a different game but I was underwhelmed. Sure he caught the ball a couple of times but never once did I see him threatening the defence. He was easily handled. Oh yeah he did throw a pass. Coming out from the line though I thought he was well, ordinary.

There wasn't a lot to get excited about in that game to be honest so can't blame you for this comment.
Woeful performance that isn't good enough.

However Musgrove and Douihei were the shining lights. Walters, Johns and Madden to a lesser extent...

Douhei is a gun.
Check out his rig too.
Looks like Mattersons build.


I’m just under six foot three and he’s a decent bit taller than me. He’d be six foot four, good to have some height to kick to.


Douihei and Twal are the most athletic at the club imo.
All that tabbouleh got em looking like Gods

All that Kibbeh Nayeh helping them get big and strong. Twal looks way bigger than last year

 

[gallagher]

Some quality arguing going on for a trial, bring on round 1,
ding ding

 

[Cairnstigers]

Douehi training @ Centre......

Was great last night and is our best fullback by a country mile. Unless injured, can’t envisage a scenario where he’s not fullback round 1.

I must have been watching a different game but I was underwhelmed. Sure he caught the ball a couple of times but never once did I see him threatening the defence. He was easily handled. Oh yeah he did throw a pass. Coming out from the line though I thought he was well, ordinary.

There wasn't a lot to get excited about in that game to be honest so can't blame you for this comment.
Woeful performance that isn't good enough.

However Musgrove and Douihei were the shining lights. Walters, Johns and Madden to a lesser extent...

Douhei is a gun.
Check out his rig too.
Looks like Mattersons build.


I’m just under six foot three and he’s a decent bit taller than me. He’d be six foot four, good to have some height to kick to.


Douihei and Twal are the most athletic at the club imo.
All that tabbouleh got em looking like Gods

All that Kibbeh Nayeh helping them get big and strong. Twal looks way bigger than last year

When Twal and Mikaele attract 3 defenders and can offload then our backs will start to have more fun
These guys look the part now they need to play the part
Who needs Taupau when we have our own Monsters (Beasts)
Aloiai, Musgrove and LL are not small either but aren't as cut
And big BJ in the centres
I think other teams will find it hard to stop us when our Forwards get a roll
We have some good forwards
They just need to believe in themselves

 

[Guest]

Demps and Cochise cut it out.

 

[tiger05premier]

Douehi training @ Centre......

Was great last night and is our best fullback by a country mile. Unless injured, can’t envisage a scenario where he’s not fullback round 1.

I must have been watching a different game but I was underwhelmed. Sure he caught the ball a couple of times but never once did I see him threatening the defence. He was easily handled. Oh yeah he did throw a pass. Coming out from the line though I thought he was well, ordinary.

I'm agreeing with you but hoping for better. I don't think he had a lot of confidence in his wingers and he looked like he was just trying to not make a mistake. I watched a bit of Lomax in the Saints game....jeez. I wish we got him!

All the effort wasted on LM should've been directed at Lomax from the start

 

[Geo]

Some quality arguing going on for a trial, bring on round 1,
ding ding

I pity the 1st bloke who knocks on...

 

[weststigers]

This is why I don’t get into deep debate in the forum - because some posters cannot think outside their own own paradigm.

I hate the culture of 9th at the Tigers but the argument suggesting Saturday’s trial reinforced that culture is ridiculous.
There was lots to glean from that trial and I’m sure the coaching staff took lots from it, but the capitulation of our third string side against a strong panthers backline, with 75% possession is not of any concern.

The weakest form of debate is to personally criticise and ridicule those you are debating. Sure sign of weakness imo.

‘Captain of the loser corner’ Really? Pathetic comment

In reality, we went into half-time at 4-4 without most of the first grade team. Dropped ball killed us in the second half, but Maguire was obviously checking on the cattle he has to play with this year.

Not too concerned - this week against the Warriors will likely be taken more seriously and will be a better indication of how we are tracking.

As Geo said - we usually start well each season. It's the middle part of the year I'm concerned about.

 

[old_man_tiger]

Some quality arguing going on for a trial, bring on round 1,
ding ding

I pity the 1st bloke who knocks on...

Will definitely get a thread of it's own and take up 9 pages in the live game

 

[GNR4LIFE]

61 pages for a trial that had 15 flegg players

 

[Geo]

Some quality arguing going on for a trial, bring on round 1,
ding ding

I pity the 1st bloke who knocks on...

Will definitely get a thread of it's own and take up 9 pages in the live game

Unless it's Chee-Kam..