What happens to Balmain now?

[wtfl1981]

Its Wests Ashfield that keeps Wests Magpies alive and It was Ryde-Eastwood that propped up Balmain. **Wests Tigers dont directly fund Balmain or Wests NSW Cup teams**

Ryde-Eastwood have left Balmain to be on their own in Bundy Cup in 2012

As a result of that Balmain are pretty much gone. WT will 'bail them out for 2012 and beyond'

Humphreys is pushing for a WT NSW Cup team to there is not a scenario of Balmain dying off and Wests Magpies get stay alive. (Think of who he is aligned with)

Sadly for us Magpie diehards, Wests Leagues Campbelltown vote with Balmain FC on JV decisions leaving Wests Magpies shafted in various matters (i.e. magpies being cut off as feeder club to WT or WT events like Balmain vs Canberra 1989 rematch in 2011 being celebrated at Campbelltown)

This is not the fault of Balmain people but its due to a fracture in Wests Campbelltown dating back to the 80's

Humpreys has acknowlegded that WT is seen as 'An extension of Balmain' so lets not continue that perception in the rugby league community

Ok Willow,
If Wests said no thanks for 2012 to funding, admin, clothing, equipment, coaches, medical staff, training facilities and PLAYERS !!!! Then you are right. (But they did not).

But how does that explain the many years prior to 2012 when Balmain got all the best NRL players and equipment ???

Wests were offered the opportunity to have a fully funded State Cup team with everything you mentioned above, just under the WT name. They said no to that. Balmain were offered the same thing, and they accepted. Since Wests decided not to be involved in that and go it alone (which really should wave any right they believe they have to funding from WT), then the club decided the team may as well go under the Balmain Ryde-Eastwood name which it has done for the last few years. This has been the case for at least the last 6-7 years, and each year the same thing happens.

Wests cannot scream and shout about WT offering them nothing when the offer has been on the table for plenty of years. The only reason that Balmain has received help on their own from WT for the senior level is because Wests have not wanted it. If Wests had taken up the chance, then Balmain would have never had funding just to them, and we would have had a WT State Cup team all along. \

WT will only ever provide funding for one State Cup team (which is their prerogative and frankly is the wisest decision). If Wests continue to reject their proposal, then they will continue to go without help. They can't have their cake and eat it too, and before you go saying that Balmain have, from the beginning their stance has been for a joint second tier team. At the moment they are simply the beneficiaries of the ignorance and stubbornness from the Wests Football Club.

 

[Guest]

Its Wests Ashfield that keeps Wests Magpies alive and It was Ryde-Eastwood that propped up Balmain. **Wests Tigers dont directly fund Balmain or Wests NSW Cup teams**

Ryde-Eastwood have left Balmain to be on their own in Bundy Cup in 2012

As a result of that Balmain are pretty much gone. WT will 'bail them out for 2012 and beyond'

Humphreys is pushing for a WT NSW Cup team to there is not a scenario of Balmain dying off and Wests Magpies get stay alive. (Think of who he is aligned with)

Sadly for us Magpie diehards, Wests Leagues Campbelltown vote with Balmain FC on JV decisions leaving Wests Magpies shafted in various matters (i.e. magpies being cut off as feeder club to WT or WT events like Balmain vs Canberra 1989 rematch in 2011 being celebrated at Campbelltown)

This is not the fault of Balmain people but its due to a fracture in Wests Campbelltown dating back to the 80's

Humpreys has acknowlegded that WT is seen as 'An extension of Balmain' so lets not continue that perception in the rugby league community

Ok Willow,
If Wests said no thanks for 2012 to funding, admin, clothing, equipment, coaches, medical staff, training facilities and PLAYERS !!!! Then you are right. (But they did not).

But how does that explain the many years prior to 2012 when Balmain got all the best NRL players and equipment ???

Wests were offered the opportunity to have a fully funded State Cup team with everything you mentioned above, just under the WT name. They said no to that. Balmain were offered the same thing, and they accepted. Since Wests decided not to be involved in that and go it alone (which really should wave any right they believe they have to funding from WT), then the club decided the team may as well go under the Balmain Ryde-Eastwood name which it has done for the last few years. This has been the case for at least the last 6-7 years, and each year the same thing happens.

Wests cannot scream and shout about WT offering them nothing when the offer has been on the table for plenty of years. The only reason that Balmain has received help on their own from WT for the senior level is because Wests have not wanted it. If Wests had taken up the chance, then Balmain would have never had funding just to them, and we would have had a WT State Cup team all along. \

WT will only ever provide funding for one State Cup team (which is their prerogative and frankly is the wisest decision). If Wests continue to reject their proposal, then they will continue to go without help. They can't have their cake and eat it too, and before you go saying that Balmain have, from the beginning their stance has been for a joint second tier team. At the moment they are simply the beneficiaries of the ignorance and stubbornness from the Wests Football Club.

You have pretty much summed up the answer to the thread title, well said. At the end of the day, this thread really is about the future - not the past. I was a passionate Balmain fan back in the day, and while it's a shame they're not around anymore, it's the Wests Tigers I support. The past is history and history cannot be changed. Both Balmain and Wests have proud histories for the same and different reasons. Accept it for what it is. For those that don't, well sorry but you cannot live in the past and you're only going to disappoint yourself if you try.

If Balmain are gone then so be it. I can accept that. If Wests are able to survive on their own at State Cup level, good luck to them, I wish them all the best. But at the end of the day if Wests survive on their own accord but at the expense of merging with Balmain and going under the name Wests Tigers and reaping the full benefits of funding and having WT contracted players aligned with them, well tough, that's their choice and they live with the consequences. Crying about it won't change a thing I'm sorry to say - nor will blaming Humphreys and Sheens.

 

[Balmain_Bug]

But because Balmain are broke, why should that disadvantage Wests ??

 

[Guest]

But because Balmain are broke, why should that disadvantage Wests ??

Because Wests disadvantaged themselves Bug. Don't you get it?

Point 1: The Wests Tigers proposed a merged State Cup team with all WT contracted players who are not named in FG, to play in the State Cup side, with funding provided by WT (someone please correct me if this is wrong).

Point 2: Balmain agreed to the merger. Whether it was for financial reasons or otherwise, I believe is irrelevant. The point is they weighed up the deal and accepted it for better or for worse depending upon one's point of view.

Point 3: Wests did not agree to the merger and wished to go it alone. More power to the magpies then, but in doing so they have sacrificed the opportunity to have WT contacted players play for them.

Point 4: A couple of fans crying about it doesn't make it right or wrong, or change what has happened. Accept it and move forward, or whinge about it and be bitter. At the end of the day it simply is.

 

[batboy]

BAHAHAHAHA…. Luke Covel????
Fair Dinkum!!
That's almost as bad as the Aussies claiming Crowded House!!
There seems to be one fact the majority are overlooking...
Wests backed themselves into the position they're in... They are a rabble of an organisation and have been for 50 odd years.
If they can pull themselves out of it, Goodluck to them!! As for splitting the WT squad..... If one person can explain to me the benefits of Team mates belting each other up and down the park every other week... I'll stand corrected!!
Both JV clubs won't survive much further without the assistance of WT. Balmain seem to have accepted this and are doing what they can to survive at some level. The magpies have chosen to go it alone... this does not automatically give them the right to whinge when the overwhelming realisation washes over them that they simply can't!!
The way some of the old Maggies carry on here... With all thier Money and Junior talent, Can anyone tell me why they finished dead last the last 2 years before the merge??
But then again they did win the 2002 sg ball GF!!

for the record…

Balmain Juniors to Wests Tigers NRL:

Mark O'Neill
Robbie Farah
Aaron Woods
Bronson Harrison

Wests Magpies Juniors to Wests Tigers NRL includes:

John Skandalis
Steve Georgalis
Ken McGuiness
Cherry Mescia
Brenton Pomery
Justin Doyle
Ray Cashmere
Willie Manu
Robert Mears
Brett Hodsgon
Bryce Gibbs
Dean Collis
Liam Fulton
Luke Covell
Shannon McDonnell
Shannon Gallant
Isaac De Gois
Stuart Flanagan
Rocky Trimarchi
Chris Lawrence
Simon Dwyer

Plus wests juniors who have not gone to WT such as Israel Falou and Ryan Hoffman

 

[innsaneink]

You need to add Luke O'Donnell & Mark O'Halloran, David Gower, Keith Eshman?? to balmain

Delete Covell, Flanagan, Fulton from Wests

Naughty :bash

 

[system]

But because Balmain are broke, why should that disadvantage Wests ??

Western Suburbs Football Club is equally as broke.

Wests Ashfield and Wests Campbelltown have substantial resources but, due to many reasons including past experience dealing with the football club, would much rather invest time and money into a Wests Tigers controlled and operated franchise.

That is the simple reality. Wests are also broke. They have had sponsor after sponsor walk away over the years and support staff mistreated, used up and spat out in some instances with not so much as gratitude shown all because of the near sighted and selfish carry on on their incompetent previous boards.

So in the end we have two football clubs that are essentially broke but only one who was willing to compromise to remain viable. That is the long and the short of it.

My sincere hope is that this new board can move forward and get beyond these issues and grow the Western Suburbs football clubs strength and desire to contribute to all things Wests Tigers

 

[batboy]

But because Balmain are broke, why should that disadvantage Wests ??

Ok Bug… If Balmain Leagues don't have the money to fund thier football side, And Wests Leagues DO have the money but don't want to... how does that make one organisation stronger than the other?
At the end of the day... WT will side with whoever best suites the needs of WT!!
Wests Magpies are to worried about self glorification than working towards the actual real goal of a feeder team!!

 

[wtfl1981]

How come we never hear from any Balmain diehards? How come there are are a millions of posts from magpie diehards but virtually nothing from any balmain tiger diehards fighting to keep the traditional balmain brand and tradition alive? Why? Because they have pretty much been ABSORBED INTO WESTS TIGERS Omit the wests (like media and other nrl fans do) and you still have the tigers playing in top level NRL just like balmain was known as the sydney tigers in 1995\. Take advantage of the WSDJRL and the money from ashfield and campbelltown without a tigers physical leagies club at rozelle, play at the tigers spiritual home of leichhardt.. Wrap yourself in black and gold merchandise and have a tiger walking up and down the sideline.. No wonder we dont hear from any vocal balmain diehards… Its just these whinging magpie diehards that seem to fill the forum with words of passion and a fight to keep the traditional wests/magpies brand alive (in nsw cup) or as a 50/50 partner in WT before its killed off for good.
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[system]

Personally because I accept that Balmain is dead and am proud to have a new football team born of the ashes of two amazing foundation clubs.

I accept that Balmain and Western Suburbs ceased to be because of incompetent management decisions, the reduction of tribalism through diversification of regions and through the economic reality of the modern sporting landscape.

We were not victims of the Super League War. We came to be through the need to accept reality and move forward. Just like the Magpies were not a victim of a NSWRL conspiracy but simply failed to meet criteria.

The final thing I will say on this issue is that Western Suburbs Magpies, Balmain Tigers and even the Sydney Tigers are relics, ancient artefacts of a time that has passed. They deserve to be honoured as do the generations of heroes who played for each club through success and wooden spoons. This folklore should never be forgotten and should be paid tribute to on the appropriate occasion. However the maintenance of either brand over the WT brand at any level in which WT contracted players represent the club simply should not happen. We cannot fully support the Wests Tigers moving forward if the board is laboured with the millstone of also try to keep two deceased brands animated for the sake of "diehards" on either side of the fence, it is a competing and opposing goal to that of moving forward as one united club.

Acceptance is the key point of difference it would seem and that acceptance exists on both sides of the joint venture partnership just as grimly holding onto a deceased relic exists on both sides.

Anyway this issue always does the rounds in one way or another every off season with the same inaccuracies and half truths that get trotted. Therefore I have summed up my feelings and I am finished with the debate

 

[batboy]

If (and i say if) Wests Ashfield and Wests Campbelltown choose NOT to Support Wests Magpies… How is that anyone fault but Wests Magpies?
At the end of the day... despite the amount of passion shown by the diehards, It's a buisness decision.... The Magpie "Brand" that is so valiantly defended has not been much of a cash cow for those involved since god knows when....
The WT brand is going from strength to strength.... Deny it, Argue with it, stand opposed to it, and refuse to accept it all you like.... You can't change it.
If the "Magpie" Brand was such a valued commodity... How does the organisation find itself in this position.
Once again.... The droves of PASSIONATE MAGPIE DIEHARDS you refer to... don't seem to fill many seats at good old C'town for the State Cup fixtures???
When it comes to heads through the gates... Actions speak louder than words.....
And I don't see much action!!

 

[wtfl1981]

Are these lasts two posts 'excuses' for accepting that balmain is dead and happy to move on as wt. We all know the benefits and reality of a great modern team in WT- thats not the debate. The two key debates are nsw
Cup team (who/how/where etc) and the 'side debate' of recognising the wests side of the joint venture. The magpies brand would only be kept alive in nsw cup. I know that there is a wt brand that is pushed in one direction and that is fine. The whinging magpie diehards and the wests football club memers want to stay alive at a senior level! Roosters are happy to not worry about a nsw cup team nor do souths. They let bears and jets stay alive in nsw cup to feed their nrl sides. Why cant wt let the magpies stay alive?? FFS its only the NSW cup. The feeding structure can only benefit WT. If balmain are broke let magpies be the feeder side as long as ashfield is willing to support them financially.
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[happy_tiger]

Ok Willow,
If Wests said no thanks for 2012 to funding, admin, clothing, equipment, coaches, medical staff, training facilities and PLAYERS !!!! Then you are right. (But they did not).

But how does that explain the many years prior to 2012 when Balmain got all the best NRL players and equipment ???

Bug we are talking about 2012 and beyond We can't change the past Brother and you are right what happened last year was unfair But if Wests were offered a chance to merge and become 1 team and refused What can we do ??
Unless Wests are prepared to get their own licence for 2012 and Ashfield (the most likely benefactor)is prepared to fund the side a very sad day is about to pass unfortunately

 

[GNR4LIFE]

for the record…

**John Skandalis**
Steve Georgalis
Ken McGuiness
Cherry Mescia
Brenton Pomery
Justin Doyle
Ray Cashmere
Willie Manu
Robert Mears
**Brett Hodsgon**
**Bryce Gibbs**
Dean Collis
**Liam Fulton**
Luke Covell
Shannon McDonnell
Shannon Gallant
Isaac De Gois
Stuart Flanagan
Rocky Trimarchi
**Chris Lawrence**
**Simon Dwyer**

Highlighted the actual talent from that group who were anything more than hole fillers or bit part players.

I think most will agree the McGuiness brothers were extremly talented. Ken played for NSW, and Kevin was arguebly our best outside back in the early 00's. Georgalis played over 200 first grade games and Mescia played over 100 games, and were both cornerstones of the Magpies side in the mid to late 90's. To call those guyz 'hole fillers' and 'bit part players' is showing your ignorence

 

[happy_tiger]

Cherry Mescia was highly underated by many . If you had put him in a stronger side he would of looked a far more dangerous player behind a dominant forward pack

 

[batboy]

Cherry Mescia was born and bred in Batlow… Hardly makes him a West Junior (Unless West means from Liverpool to, say... Perth??)

 

[wtfl1981]

He was a result of wests being a contributor to WT. Fulton is def a magpie junior. Although not a junior, players like beau ryan have made it to wt via the magpies nsw cup team when it was a feeder side to WT. Balmain dont have the junior league base to poach from. The balmain junior league comps has been merged with st george for over 15 years. There is no denying the south western sydney junior pool is a good advantage for wt to poach from.
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[batboy]

Geogallis also played for Easts for what… 4 Years before he joined Wests???

 

[batboy]

No More than Troy Wozniak, Corey Pearson, Adam Nable, Craig Field, Jason Lowrie, Mark Stimson, Tyran Smith, Joel Caine, John Carlaw, Shane Walker, Michael Gillett, Ben Duckworth, Balin Cupples, Shayne Dunley, Laloa Milford, Richard Villasanti etc, etc, etc….
Once again, With all the money and claimed talent.... How did Wests Finish dead last the 2 years before the Merger??

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

Once again, With all the money and claimed talent…. How did Wests Finish dead last the 2 years before the Merger??

Probably 3 reasons:

1\. Super League wages - Wests were forced to basically play a heap of kids who were not ready for 1st grade.
2\. Low sponsorship levels
3\. Wests Leagues Clubs woke up a long time before many other clubs that pumping their profits into the salaries of rugby league players does not lead to business success.

Balmain was not far off the same scenario at the time and it reflected in their 1999 result.

Just to clarify other points on this discussion. Both Balmain and the Wests Group have provided equal funding to date. The question is whether this is sustainable going forward given the financial position of Balmain Leagues Club. If Wests Tigers have a poor year financially and require the partners to cover the losses, will Balmain (through the Balmain leagues Club) have the ability to meet its liabilities?