What lies in wait for a potential new coach

2041

Well-known member
All the debate is about whether or not to get rid of Sheens, so I thought I'd move it on to what an incoming coach would find in his squad. I'm afraid to say I don't have a terribly positive outlook.

**The playmaker situation** for 2013 I would give a B to. Marshall and Farah are among the best in the game, but both are well paid so not really representing a bargain against the salary cap. Also there has to be a decent chance that they have both reached their peak and don't have any improvement left. On the basis of this season I'd say Marshall's days as a consistent running threat are already numbered.

The lack of a half back is well known and does not appear to be an easy one to solve. The best case scenario appears to be to move Marshall to 7 full-time (where he can maximise his passing game and doesn't have to worry so much about losing pace) with Sironen or Anasta at 6\. Both would have a lot to prove. The other option would be to find a 2010 Ben Hornby equivalent - someone who isn't going to cost much money and is a backup playmaker, but has a decent kicking game and isn't a total turnstile.

**The front row** gets a C. I've wondered for a long time whether the strategic plan is to move the Tigers to a more mobile pack setup which doesn't have the standard four prop rotation. However, at this point that either hasn't emerged or isn't working, and what we have is one genuinely representative-quality prop, one who is close (but injury prone) and basically nothing else. I thought at the start of 2012 that we were going into the season a prop light, and the evaporation of Matt Groat only exacerbated that. The amount of game time that limited triers like Cashmere, Moors and Bell got up front this year was unacceptable, and it's no surprise that our ruck defence was crap all season long.

**The back row** gets a D+. I quite like the Pettyborne signing, but the post-Ellis prospects look pretty dodgy otherwise. Barring a major turnaround I think we now have to admit that Blair is likely a contract millstone round our necks for another four years. Murdoch-Masila has finally started to come good on some of his promise but he still doesn't look more than a solid first grader at best. There's nothing else to get excited about.

**The centres** get a C-. A year and a half out from his injury I'm starting to suspect Lawrence's pace is a thing of the past, and without it he's paid like a rep player but isn't able to perform like one. Ayshford is what he is. There's not a game breaker there, and lack of pace has been a huge problem in our backs as a whole.

**The wide backs** get a B+. Ryan has had his best season ever though he's never going to be a superstar on the field. Utai has exceeded expectations and is worth keeping on a low contract. Korobeite and Tedesco (and getting out from under the Tuqiri deal) are what gets the mark up to this level, though - still a lot to prove for different reasons on both counts but at least there is hope there.

What worries me most is that there isn't much flexibility in the squad. We didn't blood a single young forward all season. There are a couple of contracts on the books that will really hurt our salary cap position (Blair, possibly Anasta, Moltzen, hopefully not - but quite possibly - Lawrence). And there don't seem to be obvious solutions to the most obvious problems, like the lack of defensive structure, a half-back, pace in the centres and prop depth.

Basically I'm worried that the window may have closed on the Marshall/Farah era Tigers with the two heartbreakers in 2010 and 2011 and the embarrassment of 2012\. It's a team that's been built for the present rather than the future, but I'm afraid the future may have arrived.

NB - I don't want to get in a fight about this. I'm sure some people will say I'm being far to pessimistic and believe me I hope those people are right.
 
A wealth of talent. A team with a roster with the potential to win a 3peat. The best supporters. A proud heritage of both Wests & Balmain.
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1.Convincing the players that 1st grade is a reward for effort.

2\. Trying to keep his job. Our players are brainwashed with the Sheens mentality.
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The baggage of a somewhat dysfunctional in-laws type board
The State Cup mess
A franchise with no revenue streams other than sponsors

The Junior development programs
A broad, wide reaching fan base
A brand that is worth mega $$$$
 
we have the kids coming through the system over the next 3 or 4 years we need to buy the players to help them to be come top nrl players.
 
@innsaneink said:
The baggage of a somewhat dysfunctional in-laws type board
The State Cup mess
A franchise with no revenue streams other than sponsors

The Junior development programs
A broad, wide reaching fan base
A brand that is worth mega $$$$

Yeh, that too!
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Your post is right on the money, no matter what us diehard supporters would like to think, the facts speak for themselves. Everything you mentioned is a fact …. this club is in for a hard couple of years, I can not see Sheens changing his selection policies - he is stuck in his ways - so the young up and comers will have to leave for greener pastures, leaving us with no depth for the future and a group of under performing stars.
 
Thoughtful and considered, but Marshall is, along with Barba and Bowen, the best at crafting more opportunity from less space, than anyone since Bob Fulton. It is Rugby League negligence to have him waste away at 7, with an ill-suited passing game and at times hideous last tackle options. At 6 he's able to create doubt in the minds of defenders, since there's less traffic.
 
Why does everyone want to dump Marshall?? A Coaches job is to make him a better player!

Who is responsible for making the Coach a better Coach….....?
 
@spearby said:
we have the kids coming through the system over the next 3 or 4 years we need to buy the players to help them to be come top nrl players.

I don't think what we've got coming through the system is looking that flash, though. As I said in my original post, we haven't given a single new young forward game time this season. I'd say the Tigers' production line is roughly as good as that of Souths, say, and way below the competition benchmarks like Brisbane and the Warriors.
 
@Tigersmurf said:
Why does everyone want to dump Marshall?? A Coaches job is to make him a better player!

Who is responsible for making the Coach a better Coach….....?

I think the point behind the OP was around data for an incoming coach in the nonevent of a new guy (or girl, gender diversity).

But yes, the title of the thread could be changed to 2013 changes and your point would be valid!!!
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Re. No young forwards being blooded in

Have you thought that maybe our junior props aren't ready for first grade yet?
Matt Groat was brought up last year and unfortunately suffered an injury.
Sheens may be a lot of bad things but he's a good development coach with juniors.
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@kh_canada said:
Re. No young forwards being blooded in

Have you thought that maybe our junior props aren't ready for first grade yet?
Matt Groat was brought up last year and unfortunately suffered an injury.
Sheens may be a lot of bad things but he's a good development coach with juniors.
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I don't see how what you're saying contradicts me. I've not said anything about Sheens's ability to develop players. What I've said is that our juniors don't appear to be as good as some people seem to think. Clubs with strong juniors have young players who can fill a hole caused by injury. Clubs without strong juniors have to sign Ray Cashmere.
 
What bothers me about junior development is that in some cases we've given them 1 or 2 games max before dumping them, whereas for other, older 'established" players, we have diabolically persevered even when their best days were clearly behind them. It is a well known fact that the jump from U20s to first grade is nowhere as small as it used to be between reserve and first grade… It is hard to expect juniors to suddenly become first graders when they are not given the opportunities to learn the game. And Sheens, I feel, has been more concerned about short term gain (clinging to 8th spot) rather than long term planning (miss the 8th but have a strong junior base) since 2005\. Sure it is about making the finals, but sustaining that is just as important.
 
@2041 said:
@kh_canada said:
Re. No young forwards being blooded in

Have you thought that maybe our junior props aren't ready for first grade yet?
Matt Groat was brought up last year and unfortunately suffered an injury.
Sheens may be a lot of bad things but he's a good development coach with juniors.
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I don't see how what you're saying contradicts me. I've not said anything about Sheens's ability to develop players. What I've said is that our juniors don't appear to be as good as some people seem to think. Clubs with strong juniors have young players who can fill a hole caused by injury. Clubs without strong juniors have to sign Ray Cashmere.

Front row is different, with Woodsy being an exception props don't really become fully read for first grade untill there early-mid 20's. It would be wrong of us to bring up a prop from the 20's and expect them to dominate, just look whats become of Groat. Pettybourne is a quality front rower and Thompson seems big enough to play in the middle if need be, add to that Bell and Moors we've got 5 or 6 props for next season plus Blair can play there to
 
I agree with the post,I think the window has closed on this group. the game is now a power game and a speed game and we lack both. We are still trying to play 2005 style football and it dosnt work. Buy some raw power,pick some speed and surround them with Farah and Marshal and we might have some chance and one other thing play direct
 
What lies in wait for a potential new coach ?

Short of winning every game by 40; the full wrath of this forum … Charlotte Dawson need not apply
 
@2041 said:
@kh_canada said:
Re. No young forwards being blooded in

Have you thought that maybe our junior props aren't ready for first grade yet?
Matt Groat was brought up last year and unfortunately suffered an injury.
Sheens may be a lot of bad things but he's a good development coach with juniors.
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_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

I don't see how what you're saying contradicts me. I've not said anything about Sheens's ability to develop players. What I've said is that our juniors don't appear to be as good as some people seem to think. Clubs with strong juniors have young players who can fill a hole caused by injury. Clubs without strong juniors have to sign Ray Cashmere.

Naah mate that was just bloody insane recruitment from the club.

You cant replace first graders immediately with juniors….they come thru slow. We knew Dwyer, Payten, Gibbs & Fafita were off.....and we brought in only Bell & Blair

Simple maths

A few months later the bleeding obvious hits someone at Concord "Sfopt, were a prop or two short!!!"
 
This is a very good thread re premiership windows e.t.c I think we have hit a snag and the premiership window could certainly re open again in about 2-3 years time if in fact it has closed for 2013.Tedesco,koroibete,sironen and woods are players that we need to build the team around in the next few years.I would love another woods quality front rower.Preferably with the same sort of work rate like a james graham.Stating the obvious here but an organising halfback who can kick and has electrifying pace off the mark.Hopefully BMM continues to improve and is also a permanent fixture in the forwards with great play.Like his size but hopefully he can improve the motor and his lateral defence.We also need another Big tasll offloading backrower with plenty of impact and one who is feared when on the paddock.Would love to keep Robbie farah who in the next few years would be in his vintage years and would be an excellent old head in a team of fresh young talented faces.Now lastly and most importantly Benji,there is no denying that the very best plays that come from Wests tigers has a benji flick pass,linebreak e.t.c attached to it but as a whole too much of our errors and losses through poor and weak mental attitude comes from benji who is the major catalyst I feel for our Jeckyll and hyde mentality/performances.So for me its thanks Benji for being a MAJOR reason for winning our title in 2005 but your too much of a cap hit while others on the team that are paid 1/3 regularly outplay you.Im not a major fan of him as a person but I think craig Bellamy is the exact style of coach we need after sheens goes(hopefully soon)with his hasler like attitude and strict adherence to a professional attitude and mental strength I feel this is what the tigers need to attend to their very soft underbelly. Get bellamy and you can be assured our forward recruitment/performance will go through the roof in no time.We really will then be competing every year(and for minor premierships and not just a lazy style of late season run)
 
Probably the same as Michael Mcguire who had no nrl head coach experience ,yet he has steered a side Lang couldnt ,into the top 4 with a crack at winning the title .
The joint is stale and a new coach with new ideas is all that is needed.
 

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