Jedi_Tiger
Well-known member
they don't need to cost anything remember it's Labor, Chalmers will be fine with the budget,
Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here
- Thread starter Kul
- Start date
- Status
Sadly, you're right. I don't think we ever had a chance really. If we wanted to get into a bidding war, which we shouldn't, the Chinese could have outbid us a thousand times over. I don't have any doubt the Chinese government have no moral compass when it comes to pursuing their own national interests.
It will be interesting now to see how we respond with our aid program to the Solomons. You could argue they don't need as much now the Chinese have kicked in but, if we reduce aid to them, we will be accused of being churlish. Can't win really.
I agree. The big numbers suggest the baseball bats are out in force.
Pascoes_barber
Well-known member
Wage growth has been stagnant for most of the past decade, yet you are linking wage increases as being the driver for the recent inflationary pressure?
On what basis?
Interest rates will continue to go back up to more 'normal' levels (several percent higher than now) and probably should have much sooner.
stryker 69
Well-known member
The only way to properly defend a country with a shoreline such as ours is re-arm the public….but I digress….
earl
Well-known member
No I'm not. I'm not doing that at all. Personally I think that inflation is due to structural issues within the world economy. Low inflation rates may have contributed but I don't think they've been a big issue.
I think the pandemic has been the major cause of inflation.
I'd be happy to learn about what has caused inflation if anyone can provide a link to a good study on that.
I am stating that only an incompetent government would increase public sector wages after being through a period of time where hand-outs have gone out like nothing we've ever seen and the end result has been a massive debt that our grandchildren will have to service.
It's time for people to start paying the piper.
Agreed.
Last edited:
earl
Well-known member
Firstly you don't sound very ignorant here.
I basically agree with you but I think you are providing a black and white argument. We need to spend more on defense because we have some autocratic countries namely Russia and China that are pushing their boundaries. You need some deterrence.
I don't believe you can put money into tourism and exports. Those industries need to be able to compete without being propped up. If they can't compete (which they can) then they should go bust.
Propping up industries is just giving hand outs to specific groups of people and to me it's wrong.
A mixed economy does require plenty of spending via the government (our taxes) though. We need to spend on stuff that the free market doesn't provide. A social net for disadvantaged. Health care. Education. Infrastructure and defense.
stryker 69
Well-known member
Ordinarily I would be inclined to agree here.
However, the position these industries are in is not due to their own incompetence. The pandemic and all governmental reactions to it, globally, have caused this. Regional centres both coastal and inland, need help. We’re not talking about casual workers in coffee shops here. Two major industries have been shut down for years.
Im going to guess you are from the city?
Pascoes_barber
Well-known member
What on Earth do public sector wages have to do with anything? FYI, public service pay increases have lagged CPI for the last 15 years or so - I was once in the situation where the employer offered 0% over an Enterprise Agreement period (~3 years).
Those wages are a drop in the ocean compared to the questionable spending from the past two terms of government:
A complete list of the Liberal Party's corruption over the last 7 years – The Chaser
Everyone's banned so now we have to do hard hitting journalism
chaser.com.au
Those wages pay for tangible work to be carried out. They are not 'hand-outs' and that is a grossly offensive line to be pushing.
Inflation? Some clues:
* Massive increases in the cost of raw materials to make anything. Lumber up by 500% (not a typo) since 2020. Steel up >200% in the same period.
* Large (compared with the past 20 years) increases in petrol/diesel prices.
* Logistics/supply chain issues are still incredibly problematic and will probably persist into next year. Even massive multinationals are affected by stuff like rare earth material shortages.
* Unbelievably cheap (historically so) credit.
The last point has its advantages though. Loans become affordable, and not just mortgages - think business loans where people can more comfortably borrow money to buy assets that then help them make money and provide jobs.
I'm not going to shitcan the current government for spending big (though I'll note it was under duress) to prevent an economic apocalypse due to the pandemic, as that money (debt) was essentially 'free' and the alternative could've been a lot worse. I will shitcan them for providing that money to companies that didn't need it, some of whom posted record profits during the period (eg: Harvey Norman).
There'll be a correction regardless of who wins the upcoming election. Hopefully not too many 'new' borrowers bent the truth on their loan applications and find themselves underwater.
Last edited:
Pascoes_barber
Well-known member
Agreed. They cannot be abandoned simply because it's inconvenient or expensive.
earl
Well-known member
Yep. From the city. I live within my means. I don't expect or want hand-outs.
If those businesses can't survive how long do we prop them up for ? How much will it cost ? How much money will be rorted ?
Businesses go bust. I understand that we've been through a pandemic and it's been really tough but it's tough being in business. If those industries are strong existing or new businesses will come back.
I do get your point and I don't want to be too harsh but I see that drunk guy at the pub wanting more money to get more beers. That is a joke. If you want more beer money work for it.
I think we live in an age of entitlement. People don't want to work or save money or live below their means to get ahead. They want society (the government) to fund their lifestyle.
earl
Well-known member
I'll try and explain this again and this time try and listen. It's really simple. We have a massive debt. We have a massive deficit. This cannot continue.
If you increase government spending you are not fixing the problem.
Do you understand this point of view ? You don't have to agree with my point of view but it makes sense. If you can't see this you just don't want too.
Until they get in ...then it all goes pear shape...the 2 major parties are as bad as each other,thats been proven over the years....thats why I think a lot of people may put more thought in who they vote for this time....there comes a time when particularly the older brigade finally get fed up....
earl
Well-known member
The thing is one goes with the other unless they can somehow manage it perfectly but they can't. It costs too much and the money doesn't get out their quickly enough.
I am shit canning the current government over this issue. They've proven that they can't manage their finances.
I don't like the current government for other issues as well. I don't like the appeal to the right wing bigots who are into culture wars which is just something they've made up in their head.
Pascoes_barber
Well-known member
Oh man, it's not that black and white.
Those businesses create employment, life and financial benefits to the local and surrounding areas.
Those businesses create employment, life and financial benefits to the local and surrounding areas.
earl
Well-known member
Of course we can't abandon them. Do they have access to social security ? Is that enough for people to live off ?
If not increase it.
Pascoes_barber
Well-known member
It really isn't. That is way too simplistic a view, and sounds like something from Clive Palmer's commercials.
That debt saved an economic and societal catastrophe (same as the stimulus spending during the GFC), and will be with us for many, many terms of government whether you like it or not.
earl
Well-known member
It actually is. This comment kills me as well. Now we provide handouts so the locals get to live near the river or something.
The world has gone crazy.
Protectionist policies never ever ever work. They screw over everyone else.
Capitalism is subject to booms and busts and businesses going under and businesses starting up. It's not societies job to manage these issues.
earl
Well-known member
I am not like that at all.
Agreed. So let's start to turn it around with responsible fiscal management.
Tell me why these people need more than social security ?
Pascoes_barber
Well-known member
So you would advocate for (potentially increased) dole payments rather than short term tax incentives/grants/exemptions for industries/employers that were heavily impacted through no fault of their own?
AKA... a 'handout'?
- Status
