Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

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How much better would Australia have been if we had Govts over the years developing our industries,that we could be completely self sufficient bar a few imported products...
Instead we sold a fair bit of Qld to Japanese interest a fair bit of our mining and farming interests to the Chinese...and the money then goes overseas...
We really have made some mistakes over the years,corruption within the ranks and total lack of respect for the citizens the Govt is elected to care for...
The only question I will ask is "when does it all end and the country gets looked after as it should be"???
 
stryker 69 said:
Ordinarily I would be inclined to agree here.
However, the position these industries are in is not due to their own incompetence. The pandemic and all governmental reactions to it, globally, have caused this. Regional centres both coastal and inland, need help. We’re not talking about casual workers in coffee shops here. Two major industries have been shut down for years.
Im going to guess you are from the city?
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Correct. The Blue Mountains obviously is a tourist location and it was extremely difficult on local businesses to make ends meet during lockdowns and even once the lockdowns ended with limited customer numbers and the like. More than a couple businesses shut down during that time.

The locals rallied to help keep business afloat here but they rely on weekenders and international visitors to come up and make it worth their while.

That's just restaurants and the like though where they had the ability to be somewhat adaptable by adjusting their model to takeaway. Tour companies where you would stuff 50 people into a bus and cart them up the hill couldn't trade at all. Government guidelines curtailed their ability to trade. That's out of their hands and not due to business mismanagement. There needs to be some investment in tourism to attract international visitors back.
 
Pascoes_barber said:
So you would advocate for (potentially increased) dole payments rather than short term tax incentives/grants/exemptions for industries/employers that were heavily impacted through no fault of their own?

AKA... a 'handout'?
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In general yes.

It's the nature of giving to specific groups that I don't like.

If you can come up with a policy that provides a better benefit to cost for the whole of society long term then I'm cool with any spending. That is becoming a tougher and tougher sell though because we already have to service a massive debt.

It's about spending limited money wisely over the longer term for the good of everyone.
 
Pascoes_barber said:
So you would advocate for (potentially increased) dole payments rather than short term tax incentives/grants/exemptions for industries/employers that were heavily impacted through no fault of their own?

AKA... a 'handout'?
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I heard a good analogy of both systems:
system A- ladder 🪜 - the gov provides the ladder, people use their own strengths/capabilities to clime;
system B - laso - the government provides the rope and pooling force, people always depend on the gov to provide the pooling force.
 
Earl said:
Yep. From the city. I live within my means. I don't expect or want hand-outs.

If those businesses can't survive how long do we prop them up for ? How much will it cost ? How much money will be rorted ?

Businesses go bust. I understand that we've been through a pandemic and it's been really tough but it's tough being in business. If those industries are strong existing or new businesses will come back.

I do get your point and I don't want to be too harsh but I see that drunk guy at the pub wanting more money to get more beers. That is a joke. If you want more beer money work for it.

I think we live in an age of entitlement. People don't want to work or save money or live below their means to get ahead. They want society (the government) to fund their lifestyle.
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You are confusing the argument.
These tourist operators and producers have not been ALLOWED to trade for 2 years. They have the skills and can run their businesses normally, but for 2 years THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ALLOWED TO.
There is a huge difference between them sitting on their arses expecting a handout and them saying help us get back on our feet and we’ll pay you back.
There is no entitlement. They aren’t looking for some sort of pension or the such. They are actively out there having a go and they need help.
 
Earl said:
In general yes.

It's the nature of giving to specific groups that I don't like.

If you can come up with a policy that provides a better benefit to cost for the whole of society long term then I'm cool with any spending. That is becoming a tougher and tougher sell though because we already have to service a massive debt.

It's about spending limited money wisely over the longer term for the good of everyone.
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Proping up these industries helps the country. How can you not see that?
This reeks of pure jealousy. “They are getting something that I am not”. That’s easy to say when you have been working the whole way through the pandemic within the comfort of your own home.
 
stryker 69 said:
They are actively out there having a go and they need help.
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At what point does the help stop ? Is helping those people more important than our defense budget ? Is it more important than health care ? Is it more important than clean energy ? Is it more important than education ?

What support do they need ? How much will it cost ?
 
Earl said:
In general yes.

It's the nature of giving to specific groups that I don't like.

If you can come up with a policy that provides a better benefit to cost for the whole of society long term then I'm cool with any spending. That is becoming a tougher and tougher sell though because we already have to service a massive debt.

It's about spending limited money wisely over the longer term for the good of everyone.
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Tax incentives/grants/temporary exemptions/other fiscal stimulus would allow the tourism sector to 'bounce back' faster and provide employment opportunities so people don't have to stay on social security payments?

This benefits society via:

- increased cashflow and spending within the economy
- increased tax revenue via income and company taxes
- intangible benefits to mental health and general well-being/sense of purpose for those that are now (re)employed in stable employment
- attracts more money to be spent in the area, leading to more of the first point.
- less money spent on social security payments.

In summary, it ends up as a net positive (both socially and financially) over the long term.

Meanwhile, social security payments allow for recipients to pay their rent and eat. As a 'solution' it equates to a complete absence of strategic thinking.
 
stryker 69 said:
Proping up these industries helps the country. How can you not see that?
This reeks of pure jealousy. “They are getting something that I am not”. That’s easy to say when you have been working the whole way through the pandemic within the comfort of your own home.
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I am not jealous of anyone.

I don't believe propping up these industries helps the country ? Can you please prove to me how this works with the correct references ?
 
Scumo must believe voters are idiots. He re-announced the acquisition of 29 Apache and 12 Seahawk helicopters yesterday. These acquisitions were announced some time ago. Really it underlines how bereft the Conservatives are for worthwhile policy announcements. How about announcing a Federal ICAC based on the NSW model.
 
An impressive performer from Labor is Jason Clare. For those concerned about wage increases read what Clare has to offer including the names Hawke and Keating -

“We learned this lesson under [former Labor prime ministers] Bob Hawke and Paul Keating: you can drive productivity if you can make the economy more productive, and do more with less, then that is the way in which you can raise wages … without having inflation take off.”
 
pawsandclaws1 said:
Scumo must believe voters are idiots. He re-announced the acquisition of 29 Apache and 12 Seahawk helicopters yesterday. These acquisitions were announced some time ago. Really it underlines how bereft the Conservatives are for worthwhile policy announcements. How about announcing a Federal ICAC based on the NSW model.
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Pigs will fly before Scamo will allow an ICAC with teeth to stop political corruption at the federal level.I was not a fan of Greiner but the NSW ICAC is by far one of the best things politics in NSW has now and he was instrumental in setting it up
 
Earl said:
At what point does the help stop ? Is helping those people more important than our defense budget ? Is it more important than health care ? Is it more important than clean energy ? Is it more important than education ?

What support do they need ? How much will it cost ?
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It hasn’t even started.
Instead of being grateful you had work throughout the pandemic, you are getting salty that those who went from a comfortable life running their successful businesses, to one on the breadline due to no fault of their own, for asking for help.
Its a pathetic mindset. You really should drop it as you are painting yourself in an extremely poor light.
I look forward to seeing further whining from you as YOUR cost of living rises especially surrounding produce, or the fact you can no longer afford a two week vacation as accomodation rentals have gone through the roof. When reality finally hits home, it’ll be too late to act.
 
Earl said:
In general yes.

It's the nature of giving to specific groups that I don't like.

If you can come up with a policy that provides a better benefit to cost for the whole of society long term then I'm cool with any spending. That is becoming a tougher and tougher sell though because we already have to service a massive debt.

It's about spending limited money wisely over the longer term for the good of everyone.
Click to expand...

I would have thought it would be beneficial to stop businesses from going belly up so they can continue to trade and support their employees and suppliers so less people are looking for welfare.
 
Earl said:
I am not jealous of anyone.

I don't believe propping up these industries helps the country ? Can you please prove to me how this works with the correct references ?
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You want me to explain to you how prosperous primary producer and tourism industries will positively affect the country?
You are definitely jealous that you had to keep working whilst others got job keeper payments. I’m sure you’ve been raging about it in your little echo chambers online whilst you are supposed to be working from home, all the while, not giving two shits that some peoples million dollar operations are now worth just a fraction of that, when they had no say in that outcome.
People outside of your little communities are looking at you and asking what are you even arguing about? You have no clue, just an inner city snob with his melon firmly entrenched in his backside, who is upset over nothing.
 
stryker 69 said:
It hasn’t even started.
Instead of being grateful you had work throughout the pandemic, you are getting salty that those who went from a comfortable life running their successful businesses, to one on the breadline due to no fault of their own, for asking for help.
Its a pathetic mindset. You really should drop it as you are painting yourself in an extremely poor light.
I look forward to seeing further whining from you as YOUR cost of living rises especially surrounding produce, or the fact you can no longer afford a two week vacation as accomodation rentals have gone through the roof. When reality finally hits home, it’ll be too late to act.
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Then when all those people are in the breadlines, and his income taxes go up to pay for the massive welfare bill he'll have another whinge.
 
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