Wests Tigers Coaches

[Mighty_Tiger]

Just reading Canberra are talking to him about a Raiders reunion. Could happen and maybe Sticky planning for his future.

Good on him. If he goes hope it works out well. TBH if there was ever a team built on a Madge style game plan it's probably the Raiders and makes alot of sense.

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Interesting hearing Benji interview recently where Benji was pulling player videos together and will be sitting down with each player to review with them. He did make a point about focusing on their natural playing style.

I actually think if Benji can get it right some of the players by mid season could be very different to what we have seen from them for a while. Say mid season on purpose because they will need some match time to get the style flowing.

This is the only reason I'm excited about the coaching shift because I want to see some dynamic attacking style flowing for us - hate the deadpan league style Madge wanted us to play.

I hope that each player will be given their individual KPIs!
The obvious ones are:
- Nofoaluma's defence - I could be like "an improved positional game, reading of the attack etc."
- Brooks - short and long kicks, short passes, run break assists, try assists ;
- Forwards - line speed, tackling effectiveness, meters run, offloads etc.
- Backs - number of line breaks etc.

 

[BAGNF05]

I hope that each player will be given their individual KPIs!
The obvious ones are:
- Nofoaluma's defence - I could be like "an improved positional game, reading of the attack etc."
- Brooks - short and long kicks, short passes, run break assists, try assists ;
- Forwards - line speed, tackling effectiveness, meters run, offloads etc.
- Backs - number of line breaks etc.

The problem with that approach is that RL is a team game and you rely on your teammates to create you opportunities to get ‘stats’ like linebreaks, offloads etc. nothing happens in rugby league unless a team has built momentum, and it generally starts with forwards or big outside backs carrying the ball strongly. On the other side of the ball it is simply committing to the cause. Which is basically attitude. All WT KPI’s need to be based on attitude imo. Get that right and sign a few more players and we might have a club worth supporting.

 

[innsaneink]

Yeah, a lot of the players he coached in Australian team say the same.

Beau Ryan said the same. Mentioned flanno was a more players coach inferred sheens can be all about footy coach but think he knows has to be more flexible with players these days.

He is fascinating tousten to when he talks about footy

They used to do pre season coaches sessions for FC members, around 03 04 etc... Sheens was awesome to listen to

 

[Needaname]

Madge is going to Raiders apparently. Anyone hear this?

Probably follows Demp’s rhetoric that Tapine wants to be coached by Madge.

 

[weststigers]

Recruitment can be so hit and miss. API and IP are great signings but we've done this so poorly in the past.

I think Pole showed how juniors can come in and perform. Stef isn't old either.

The hit and miss can certainly be applied to juniors too. Maybe more so.

How many rookies are we going to bump to first grade that will help us get out of this situation in the next 2-3 years?

My guess is 1-3 per year show enough promise to crack the team. Not all of them are successful stepping up and need a couple more years in lower grades or they just don’t kick on for whatever reason.

We don’t have a Nanai, Sloane or Sualii sitting in our junior system.

We need to recruit some decent players with runs on the board to fill the void until our juniors can catch up.

You can’t stack the side with apprentices and expect them to learn anything other than getting flogged each week.

The very best rookies make it impossible not to be picked…those are the ones that we don’t have…yet. Confident it will come, but there are no obvious choices at this moment.

The last time we had gun juniors coming through was when Sheens was coach…Some work has already been done and hopefully we can recreate what we had to set us up for the future.

 

[cochise]

He is fascinating tousten to when he talks about footy

They used to do pre season coaches sessions for FC members, around 03 04 etc... Sheens was awesome to listen to

One of the most interesting people I have ever spoken to.

 

[tony soprano]

One of the most interesting people I have ever spoken to.

Lucky

 

[earl]

The hit and miss can certainly be applied to juniors too. Maybe more so.

You are right but they don't kill your salary cap.

 

[weststigers]

You are right but they don't kill your salary cap.

Clubs must spend at least 95% of the salary cap.

There will always be highly paid players in a team regardless of whether they are juniors or recruited from outside...

I don't really understand where you're coming from.

 

[earl]

Clubs must spend at least 95% of the salary cap.

There will always be highly paid players in a team regardless of whether they are juniors or recruited from outside...

I don't really understand where you're coming from.

I'll try and explain my perspective. When you recruit a player you typically pay them more than their existing contract and sometimes you even offer them an extra year or two.

So you sign someone like IP or Blair. You sign them on top dollar for 3 years. If they kill it no problems. Let's say they don't though. You have a player on your books for good dollars and it limits your ability to move in the market place over the course of their contract.

Worst case you bring in a gun junior or even a couple of them and you can't retain them.

 

[Merlot]

I'll try and explain my perspective. When you recruit a player you typically pay them more than their existing contract and sometimes you even offer them an extra year or two.

So you sign someone like IP or Blair. You sign them on top dollar for 3 years. If they kill it no problems. Let's say they don't though. You have a player on your books for good dollars and it limits your ability to move in the market place over the course of their contract.

Worst case you bring in a gun junior or even a couple of them and you can't retain them.

and thats the problem with having to spend 95% of cap or be fined,paying overs for fringe players,but who is frugal when the cap is a hand out from the NRL.

 

[weststigers]

I'll try and explain my perspective. When you recruit a player you typically pay them more than their existing contract and sometimes you even offer them an extra year or two.

So you sign someone like IP or Blair. You sign them on top dollar for 3 years. If they kill it no problems. Let's say they don't though. You have a player on your books for good dollars and it limits your ability to move in the market place over the course of their contract.

Worst case you bring in a gun junior or even a couple of them and you can't retain them.

I'm still not sure of your logic.

We have a salary cap of around 9.5 million that must be spent to build a competetive squad each year.

Whether you choose to spend that 9.5 million on cheap juniors that aren't ready for NRL or established first graders is up to each team....BUT...the same amount of money is spent either way.

There will always be a portion of your cap that doesn't perform and the spotlight is always on the highest paid players.

My initial point was that our juniors aren't ready and recruitment will be critical until they are.

You can't throw kids in before they're ready...it's a good way to kill their careers before they've even begun.

 

[batboy]

Whether you choose to spend that 9.5 million on cheap juniors that aren't ready for NRL or established first graders is up to each team....BUT...the same amount of money is spent either way.

And there's the Problem....
We pay cheap juniors established NRL players money to keep them.

- Leaving no money (Or Room) for quality established players

 

[Merlot]

the whole,AS A CLUB,salary cap should all be under the same umbrella,spend 250 on keeping an 18 year old at your peril.may just spread some talent and give development clubs some space to breathe

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

I hope that each player will be given their individual KPIs!
The obvious ones are:
- Nofoaluma's defence - I could be like "an improved positional game, reading of the attack etc."
- Brooks - short and long kicks, short passes, run break assists, try assists ;
- Forwards - line speed, tackling effectiveness, meters run, offloads etc.
- Backs - number of line breaks etc.

and douhie actually making some tackles ...

 

[weststigers]

And there's the Problem....
We pay cheap juniors established NRL players money to keep them.

- Leaving no money (Or Room) for quality established players

Exactly.

 

[earl]

I'm still not sure of your logic.

Okay - do you understand my points that when you recruit typically it means you are paying more than the club the player is currently playing for ?

Do you understand that typically you also provide longer term contracts ?

We have a salary cap of around 9.5 million that must be spent to build a competetive squad each year.

Whether you choose to spend that 9.5 million on cheap juniors that aren't ready for NRL or established first graders is up to each team....BUT...the same amount of money is spent either way.

I understand this point.

There will always be a portion of your cap that doesn't perform and the spotlight is always on the highest paid players.

Agreed.

My initial point was that our juniors aren't ready and recruitment will be critical until they are.

You can't throw kids in before they're ready...it's a good way to kill their careers before they've even begun.

This is subjective. I disagree with the point about throwing them in before they are ready. I mean of course this is true but who says you will kill their careers. I think if they don't have the talent they won't make it anyway. I also think it's not so cut and dry in relation to determining when they are ready.

I think all of this is though missing the point. You need a balance of recruitment and junior development.

Clubs like Melbourne and Penrith basically just recruit at the junior or development player level.

Clubs like the Roosters recruit the best talent from wherever they can get them.

I don't think we can compete recruiting like the Roosters and we can't let our cap get out of balance via thinking we can simply recruit the best possible team.

Lastly we've tried this approach for a while now and it's failed dismally.

I think we need good juniors coming through and we need to be able to retain the ones that show they can perform. This means to me we need more focus on developing quality juniors rather than established players but the key point is that you need to have some flexibility in the cap to retain those players.

Mbye, Reynolds and Packer have been the worst value for money players we've had and they were all our best recruits in relation to getting established players. They stuffed out cap for years.

 

[batboy]

Okay - do you understand my points that when you recruit typically it means you are paying more than the club the player is currently playing for ?

Do you understand that typically you also provide longer term contracts ?



I understand this point.



Agreed.


This is subjective. I disagree with the point about throwing them in before they are ready. I mean of course this is true but who says you will kill their careers. I think if they don't have the talent they won't make it anyway. I also think it's not so cut and dry in relation to determining when they are ready.

I think all of this is though missing the point. You need a balance of recruitment and junior development.

Clubs like Melbourne and Penrith basically just recruit at the junior or development player level.

Clubs like the Roosters recruit the best talent from wherever they can get them.

I don't think we can compete recruiting like the Roosters and we can't let our cap get out of balance via thinking we can simply recruit the best possible team.

Lastly we've tried this approach for a while now and it's failed dismally.

I think we need good juniors coming through and we need to be able to retain the ones that show they can perform. This means to me we need more focus on developing quality juniors rather than established players but the key point is that you need to have some flexibility in the cap to retain those players.

Mbye, Reynolds and Packer have been the worst value for money players we've had and they were all our best recruits in relation to getting established players. They stuffed out cap for years.

You're missing the point we we have to overpay them to keep them....
Which means we can't afford decent quality proven players to surround them with
Which means we're not consistent
Which means we struggle to be appealing to quality players
Which means we keep overpaying juniors.

We all wanna keep our best kids - But until we're successful and can get them to stay for less money, We're stuck in a wheel of trying to keep them all and overpaying.

Even now, We're the wooden spoon team
- And I'd almost bet we're going into 2023 with the least NRL games across the whole squad.
How's a team of Kids, With stuff all experienced players coming through with them expected to improve....

Be Mr Brightside all you like - Ignoring the obvious doesn't make it less obvious, Or any less a reality.

 

[earl]

We all wanna keep our best kids - But until we're successful and can get them to stay for less money, We're stuck in a wheel of trying to keep them all and overpaying.

It's hard to retain players for all clubs. Melbourne lose players all the time and they lose quality.

So somehow the club has to create a squad that has the ability to win games but we also need juniors coming through and we need to be able to upgrade those juniors.

Sure we can't pay overs but it's easier to get players to stay for a little less if they have come through your system. It's even easier if the club is performing.

I'm not ignoring anything or trying to avoid reality. You are being completely pessimistic and nothing will ever work for you. That is why you keep banging on about IP not being here despite him having a registered contract. This attitude is completely and utterly delusional.

If you get a donut you'd see the hole.

It's cool but there is no point discussing anything with you because no matter what I state you will look for the potential negative.