Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[earl]

It’s also the way they back up around the ruck .

You don't come last just because we have Luke Brooks in our team. We've had Brooks out of the team on numerous occasions and we don't look any better.

 

[tigerballs]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion bit geez it's obvious that a lot of blokes here haven't played a lick of football in their life.

The criticism of Klemmer and Stefano is quite frankly absurd. For front rowers Klemmer is 5th in all run meters and 4th in post contact meters. Stefano is 13th in run meters and 12th in post contact meters. The sheet below shows that they both maintain elite workrates in defence with high tackle efficiency. Our play the ball speed is 6th in the NRL our all run meters is 8th. The problem is not our forward pack and anyone who thinks the pack is the problem is Rugby League illiterate.

You know what we are god awful at? Linebreaks 17th, LBA 17th, Try assists 17th, Kick meters 17th, effective short drop outs 17th, errors 1st. Our halves couldn't put a nail through balloon and despite our lack of creativity we make the most errors in the comp. Our top error makers are Tupou, Toa, Wakeham, Brooks, Bateman, Bula, Nofoluma and Naden. 1 Forward out 8 players.

Get off the narrative that our forwards are deficient. Big hits and tackle busts don't make a great pack. Controlling the middle with meters and ruck speed does.

We are making the right moves with Sullivan, Fainu etc because if we can find even just one decent half that can put someone into space and kick the ball further than 20m this side will be a legit top 8 team.

Thank God....

 

[Lestronge]

You don't come last just because we have Luke Brooks in our team. We've had Brooks out of the team on numerous occasions and we don't look any better.

??? I didn’t say that . I said we don’t do it . But brooks does occasionally . Because he does … but not many of the halves we have do . It’s not a rap for brooks or a judgement . It’s a judgment for how piss poor our spin as a unit has been . It’s ok to call a spade a spade , even if it doesn’t fit one’s agenda mate .

 

[tigerballs]

2023 Round 1 best spine:
1. Laurie - 500k
6. Doueihi - 600k
7. Brooks - 1.1 Mil
9. Api - 700k

14. Simpkin - 350k

Est total - 3.25 mil

2024 Round 1 best spine:
1. Bula - 300k
6. Fainu - 300k
7. Sezer - 400k
9. Api - 700k

14. Sullivan - 350k

Est total - 2.1 Mil


I don't know how nearly halving the cost of your spine (if we increase the cap for 24 by the estimated 30%) while nearly doubling the quality is looked at as going backwards.

Another genius...

 

[earl]

??? I didn’t say that . I said we don’t do it . But brooks does occasionally . Because he does … but not many of the halves we have do . It’s not a rap for brooks or a judgement . It’s a judgment for how piss poor our spin as a unit has been . It’s ok to call a spade a spade , even if it doesn’t fit one’s agenda mate .

I totally agree. The problem is when you are talking about Stef and providing criticism of him it becomes about Brooks.

Here is my post which is about Stef and somehow it becomes about Brooks. I mentioned Api though.

Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

George Williams is a terrific halfback. What about Townsend … the guy I actually mentioned?

weststigersforum.com

Sorry I'm having a seniors moment and getting a little frustrated.

 

[Tito Santana]

If Sezer & Sullivan are signed then we are good for now. If a controlling player pops up though we need to go all in for 2025.

We won't have any more than a million put into halves for next season (If we view Doueihi as a centre / lock now instead of a half) which is great considering we have upgraded and Doueihi & Brooks were almost on 2 mil this year combined.

Edit: Actually all 4 of these Halves next year (Galvin, Fainu, Sullivan, Sezer) would be paid less than we paid brooks this year (1.1 Million)

And in no way is that depressing

 

[Lestronge]

I totally agree. The problem is when you are talking about Stef and providing criticism of him it becomes about Brooks.

Here is my post which is about Stef and somehow it becomes about Brooks.

Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

George Williams is a terrific halfback. What about Townsend … the guy I actually mentioned?

weststigersforum.com

Sorry I'm having a seniors moment and getting a little frustrated.

I didn’t say anything about stef mate . But I get the frustration. He played origin this year . I mean he’s a baby by front row standards . He’s going well . And Payne Haas has skewed everyone’s opinions on front rower timelines . Most sent elite until their bodies come in around 26 years old.

 

[Vicious]

Latu Fainu plays predominantly on the left and seems very good at skipping across field before straightening up to engage the defence and putting his hard running back rower or centre through the hole.
From memory I think Jayden Sullivan prefers playing on the right hand side.

 

[tony soprano]

2023 Round 1 best spine:
1. Laurie - 500k
6. Doueihi - 600k
7. Brooks - 1.1 Mil
9. Api - 700k

14. Simpkin - 350k

Est total - 3.25 mil

2024 Round 1 best spine:
1. Bula - 300k
6. Fainu - 300k
7. Sezer - 400k
9. Api - 700k

14. Sullivan - 350k

Est total - 2.1 Mil


I don't know how nearly halving the cost of your spine (if we increase the cap for 24 by the estimated 30%) while nearly doubling the quality is looked at as going backwards.

The ghost of madge Maguire still hanging around the joint

 

[Tomatosoup912]

100% incorrect. The issue is that I criticized Stef because he hasn't been playing to the level he can consistently. He just hasn't. It's not about Brooks.

The problem is that any criticism in this club comes back to our halves and specifically Brooks because that is all some people see.

I can't wait until he is gone.

The arguments about Hastings are just another anti-Brooks or the club argument.



Have we beat one pack all season apart from the smashing against North Qld ? Our problem is more than just the halves.

Proof:- we are dead last.

What do you mean by beat? Is your only measure of achieving dominance over an opposition pack how many points you score? My issue is that you are making these huge statements about the packs deficiencies without an ounce of statistical support outside the brilliant technical analysis of "Stef not run hard enough all the time".

So I'm not a hypocrite here are some very clear statistics that refute your gut feeling that our pack is below average.

We produce 8.87m per run, this is good enough for 4th in the NRL.

We concede 8.98m per run, this is 11th in the NRL.

The net result is -0.11m per run in the NRL. This net result in 8th in the NRL. So let me clarify that, with consideration to the net result of our running metres produced and conceded we are the 8th best team in the NRL, 8TH.

You know what we are 17th at? Points per play the ball inside the 20m line. We are 0.51 points per play the ball the best teams ate in the high 0.9s. We are approaching a 50% capacity to score points compared to the elite attacking teams in the NRL. Keep in mind as per my previous point we are easily the worst attacking team but we still rank first in errors. If we were scoring points off high risk plays, fine, but our backs can't even hold the ball playing basic shape.

Finally after 9 rounds we had scored -36.8% than the average amount of points for a team with our field position. That is so horrendously terrible. Once again the best attacking teams are scoring at +30/40%.

In summary our forwards perform at a top 8 level. They get us elite field position, they compete on a per run basis with any team in the NRL. So when you day something like tell me a pack we have beaten, the honest response is we beat at least 50% of them. We just can't take front foot ball and field position and turn them into points. Our pack is good, our backs are significantly below first grade that is what every statistical measure tells us.

But by all means, keeping yelling at Stef to run harder oh great forward whisperer.

 

[earl]

Latu Fainu plays predominantly on the left and seems very good at skipping across field before straightening up to engage the defence and putting his hard running back rower or centre through the hole.
From memory I think Jayden Sullivan prefers playing on the right hand side.

They are both players that haven't done it at first grade level consistently (at all in Fainu's case) and they won't be on big dollars so we need to have reasonable expectations.

Sullivan isn't official yet but I like this combination. Two guys that will score points and make busts.

 

[tigerballs]

It’s also the way they back up around the ruck . It’s easy to blame Bula , who is out of place at times , but whenever API pokes his head through there’s never anyone there . Brooks does it occasionally , but Wakeham would never be there . And too often Bula isn’t there because he’s out wide ready for the next play .
Pushing up around the ruck from our spine has to be the priority with who we sign , as well as how we train this off season . So many half chances have gone begging this year because of a lack of cohesion around the ruck .

100%. I thought we were very competitive at times against Souths because Brooks and to a lesser extent Laurie were running at pace. Unfortunately there's no real pattern to it so it's hard to back them up. Brooks is quick and deceptive and I thought he was pretty good, it's just that he's hard to work with.

 

[Tiger_claws]

Sezer is solid in superleague however Blake Austin carries the bulk of the load in that team(Leeds) , & watching them play I reckon does most of the organising & directing as well

I find it the opposite. Blake drifts in and out of games. Comes into the play on attacking the line. Sezer definitely organises for most part. The games I have watched anyway.

 

[earl]

What do you mean by beat? Is your only measure of achieving dominance over an opposition pack how many points you score. My issue is that you are making these huge statements about the packs deficiencies without an ounce of statistical support outside the brilliant technical analysis of "Stef not run hard enough all the time".

So I'm not a hypocrite here are some very clear statistics that refute your gut feeling that our pack is below average.

We produce 8.87m per run, this is good enough for 4th in the NRL.

We concede 8.98m per run, this is 11th in the NRL.

The net result is -0.11m per run in the NRL. This net result in 8th in the NRL. So let me clarify that, with consideration to the net result of our running metres produced and conceded we are the 8th best team in the NRL, 8TH.

You know what we are 17th at? Points per play the ball inside the 20m line. We are 0.51 points per play the ball the best teams ate in the high 0.9s. We are approaching a 50% capacity to score points compared to the elite attacking teams in the NRL. Keep in mind as per my previous point we are easily the worst attacking team but we still rank first in errors. If we were scoring points off high risk plays, fine, but our backs can't even hold the ball playing basic shape.

Finally after 9 rounds we had scored -36.8% than the average amount of points for a team with our field position. That is so horrendously terrible. Once again the best attacking teams are scoring at +30/40%.

In summary our forwards perform at a top 8 level. They get us elite field position, they compete on a per run basis with any team in the NRL. So when you day something like tell me a pack we have beaten, the honest response is we beat at least 50% of them. We just can't take front foot ball and field position and turn them into points. Our pack is good, our packs are significantly below first grade that is what every statistical measure tells us.

But by all means, keeping yelling at Stef to run harder oh great forward whisperer.

@Tomatosoup912 - You still aren't responding to what I'm stating. Chill out dude.

I hate picking through long posts like this to try and respond to stuff I haven't stated. I started but you get it so wrong so quickly I can't be bothered reading what you posted.

I was talking only about Stef and my opinion that his performances need to improve. That doesn't mean he is a dud or I want to get rid of him or anything like that. I just want the performances we've seen the last two weeks more often over the course of the season. That is it. I'm on medical marijuana and I think you should go and get some.

 

[Tomatosoup912]

@Tomatosoup912 - You still aren't responding to what I'm stating. Chill out dude.

I hate picking through long posts like this to try and respond to stuff I haven't stated. I started but you get it so wrong so quickly I can't be bothered reading what you posted.

I was talking only about Stef and my opinion that his performances need to improve. That doesn't mean he is a dud or I want to get rid of him or anything like that. I just want the performances we've seen the last two weeks more often over the course of the season. That is it. I'm on medical marijuana and I think you should go and get some.

Mate I'm chill.

I'm an engineer, we like numbers. All I did was provide a statistical response to your questions as to if we had beaten another pack this year and why us running dead last doesn't indicate pack performance.

Sorry that a supported argument was too detailed to read. Have a good night.

 

[phil1986]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion bit geez it's obvious that a lot of blokes here haven't played a lick of football in their life.

The criticism of Klemmer and Stefano is quite frankly absurd. For front rowers Klemmer is 5th in all run meters and 4th in post contact meters. Stefano is 13th in run meters and 12th in post contact meters. The sheet below shows that they both maintain elite workrates in defence with high tackle efficiency. Our play the ball speed is 6th in the NRL our all run meters is 8th. The problem is not our forward pack and anyone who thinks the pack is the problem is Rugby League illiterate.

You know what we are god awful at? Linebreaks 17th, LBA 17th, Try assists 17th, Kick meters 17th, effective short drop outs 17th, errors 1st. Our halves couldn't put a nail through balloon and despite our lack of creativity we make the most errors in the comp. Our top error makers are Tupou, Toa, Wakeham, Brooks, Bateman, Bula, Nofoluma and Naden. 1 Forward out 8 players.

Get off the narrative that our forwards are deficient. Big hits and tackle busts don't make a great pack. Controlling the middle with meters and ruck speed does.

We are making the right moves with Sullivan, Fainu etc because if we can find even just one decent half that can put someone into space and kick the ball further than 20m this side will be a legit top 8 team.

Spot on. Thankyou.

It’s sometimes hard to sit back and watch what goes on in some comments.

This is a breath of fresh air. 👍

 

[Odessa]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion bit geez it's obvious that a lot of blokes here haven't played a lick of football in their life.

The criticism of Klemmer and Stefano is quite frankly absurd. For front rowers Klemmer is 5th in all run meters and 4th in post contact meters. Stefano is 13th in run meters and 12th in post contact meters. The sheet below shows that they both maintain elite workrates in defence with high tackle efficiency. Our play the ball speed is 6th in the NRL our all run meters is 8th. The problem is not our forward pack and anyone who thinks the pack is the problem is Rugby League illiterate.

You know what we are god awful at? Linebreaks 17th, LBA 17th, Try assists 17th, Kick meters 17th, effective short drop outs 17th, errors 1st. Our halves couldn't put a nail through balloon and despite our lack of creativity we make the most errors in the comp. Our top error makers are Tupou, Toa, Wakeham, Brooks, Bateman, Bula, Nofoluma and Naden. 1 Forward out 8 players.

Get off the narrative that our forwards are deficient. Big hits and tackle busts don't make a great pack. Controlling the middle with meters and ruck speed does.

We are making the right moves with Sullivan, Fainu etc because if we can find even just one decent half that can put someone into space and kick the ball further than 20m this side will be a legit top 8 team.

We have an elite pack and great young Fullback everything in between is a work in progress

 

[weststigerman]

The way I see it Sezer is the key. He’s no star by any stretch but he can organise a team and has a decent short and long kicking game.

Sullivan’s strengths are his ball playing and running, doesn’t have a particularly great kicking game. Fainu barely kicks at NSW Cup level yet so his kicking game is unknown at anything beyond Flegg.

 

[Camel2281]

@batboy Here is some truths for you mate

Definitely. @batboy and his love for Brooks is worse than Russell saying Liddle was a better hooker than Harry Grant

 

[AdelaideTiger]

What do you mean by beat? Is your only measure of achieving dominance over an opposition pack how many points you score? My issue is that you are making these huge statements about the packs deficiencies without an ounce of statistical support outside the brilliant technical analysis of "Stef not run hard enough all the time".

So I'm not a hypocrite here are some very clear statistics that refute your gut feeling that our pack is below average.

We produce 8.87m per run, this is good enough for 4th in the NRL.

We concede 8.98m per run, this is 11th in the NRL.

The net result is -0.11m per run in the NRL. This net result in 8th in the NRL. So let me clarify that, with consideration to the net result of our running metres produced and conceded we are the 8th best team in the NRL, 8TH.

You know what we are 17th at? Points per play the ball inside the 20m line. We are 0.51 points per play the ball the best teams ate in the high 0.9s. We are approaching a 50% capacity to score points compared to the elite attacking teams in the NRL. Keep in mind as per my previous point we are easily the worst attacking team but we still rank first in errors. If we were scoring points off high risk plays, fine, but our backs can't even hold the ball playing basic shape.

Finally after 9 rounds we had scored -36.8% than the average amount of points for a team with our field position. That is so horrendously terrible. Once again the best attacking teams are scoring at +30/40%.

In summary our forwards perform at a top 8 level. They get us elite field position, they compete on a per run basis with any team in the NRL. So when you day something like tell me a pack we have beaten, the honest response is we beat at least 50% of them. We just can't take front foot ball and field position and turn them into points. Our pack is good, our backs are significantly below first grade that is what every statistical measure tells us.

But by all means, keeping yelling at Stef to run harder oh great forward whisperer.

Cracking post, I think the stats are slightly skewed by how dominant the pack was to start the year, and those that refute these numbers are suffering a bit from recency bias. Because we certainly haven't been as strong in the middle tracking back to the Api injury.

But there is no refuting just how terrible we have been at creating points, and that comes down to the spine. Poor continuity, untimely injuries and ultimately a lack of top end talent.