Referendum 2023

[Tucker]

I suggest you stick to football issues because at least then you sometimes make sense

I suggest you wake up.
You should be ashamed of what you just said.
I highly doubt you ever will though because people like you don’t really care about these things.

 

[Tucker]

I usually like to stay out of topics like these but wanted to give my 2 cents. As a young bloke this referendum feels like a slap in the face to all of us worrying about how the future looks... at this rate we'll never be able to afford to buy a house, some people I know have had to move back in with their parents because the rental market is crazy, the cost of living is shooting up like a rocket but the minimum wage is hardly increasing & yet all I see over the news is our PM wearing a vote yes shirt. If he really cared that much about Aboriginals why doesn't he head over to NT & try & actually do something over there with all the problems they got going on?

You say you're voting no you get accused of being a racist & not caring about our first nation people which is a total load of BS. I understand that what happened to the Aboriginal people was sad, heart breaking, unfair & completely undeserved but this happened over 100 years ago & what can anyone do about it today? Is that a racist thing to say or is that the truth? There are plenty of programmes/initiatives that our first nations people receive as many people here have noted out.

It feels like the world has moved towards a landscape of catering to minorities & no one is really tackling any issues to help EVERYONE which is causing more & more division/unrest amongst the population. Referendums like the SSM bill you can get behind because it's just handing people basic human rights but this Referendum just seems like a big what if & we've hardly heard what this Referendum is set out to achieve just our PM walking around Redfern in a vote yes shirt.

Great perspective. Either way, your generation will be paying. It is not selfish to factor in how this affects your situation when making huge decisions like altering the constitution. If we knew actual figures and details, that decision is made easier. Without them….

 

[Tucker]

Lmao no way. Our very own Candace Owens

Articulate, intelligent woman?
Or is it just cause she’s black?

 

[Kaito]

This is the bit that shits me about the Yes Campaign.
They don’t care nearly as much as they claim.
Didn’t get up? Meh drop it and move on.
Don’t worry, there’s still plenty out there that will pull your weight and get a result, long after you’ve ceased giving a damn.

I don't think anyone stops giving a damn Tucker,
I just don't think an election win will be contingent
on whether or not the voice is successful...

 

[Kaito]

Articulate, intelligent woman?
Or is it just cause she’s black?

Not doing this with you bro. You're doing a good
job of gatekeeping the thread, I don't want to
go back & forth with you on everything I say lol

 

[Tucker]

I don't think anyone stops giving a damn Tucker,
I just don't think an election win will be contingent
on whether or not the voice is successful...

The Referendum Council has been in operation for 8 years. The Uluṟu Statement from the Heart was delivered 6 years ago. The Government and it’s high profile supporters have dropped 360 million on the referendum so far. Dutton is promising another referendum to get something sorted after this one fails at the next election.
This ain’t going away.

 

[Tucker]

Not doing this with you bro. You're doing a good
job of gatekeeping the thread, I don't want to
go back & forth with you on everything I say lol

Lol ok, but quickly, what’s wrong with Candace Owens?
I can think of far worse to be compared with.

 

[Kaito]

The Referendum Council has been in operation for 8 years. The Uluṟu Statement from the Heart was delivered 6 years ago. The Government and it’s high profile supporters have dropped 360 million on the referendum so far. Dutton is promising another referendum to get something sorted after this one fails at the next election.
This ain’t going away.

Good. Until we find a resolution it shouldn't go
away. I just don't think an election will be won
or lost on the back of it as I mentioned earlier.

Only 8 out of the 44 previous referendums have been successful and all that have succeeded have had bipartisan support. I read that earlier, interesting

 

[pawsandclaws1]

I usually like to stay out of topics like these but wanted to give my 2 cents. As a young bloke this referendum feels like a slap in the face to all of us worrying about how the future looks... at this rate we'll never be able to afford to buy a house, some people I know have had to move back in with their parents because the rental market is crazy, the cost of living is shooting up like a rocket but the minimum wage is hardly increasing & yet all I see over the news is our PM wearing a vote yes shirt. If he really cared that much about Aboriginals why doesn't he head over to NT & try & actually do something over there with all the problems they got going on?

You say you're voting no you get accused of being a racist & not caring about our first nation people which is a total load of BS. I understand that what happened to the Aboriginal people was sad, heart breaking, unfair & completely undeserved but this happened over 100 years ago & what can anyone do about it today? Is that a racist thing to say or is that the truth? There are plenty of programmes/initiatives that our first nations people receive as many people here have noted out.

It feels like the world has moved towards a landscape of catering to minorities & no one is really tackling any issues to help EVERYONE which is causing more & more division/unrest amongst the population. Referendums like the SSM bill you can get behind because it's just handing people basic human rights but this Referendum just seems like a big what if & we've hardly heard what this Referendum is set out to achieve just our PM walking around Redfern in a vote yes shirt.

I feel for the young attempting to get into the housing market. Ch9 had a story about young people relying on parents to get them into the housing market. I purchased my first unit at 18 in the ADF and did without fast cars etc to make the repayments with a 17% interest rate. It is tougher these days so I feel for all going through this trauma.

 

[Kaito]

Lol ok, but quickly, what’s wrong with Candace Owens?
I can think of far worse to be compared with.

Me 2, Marjorie Taylor Greene & Lauren Boebert lol

 

[WesternSuburbsBoy]

I feel for the young attempting to get into the housing market. Ch9 had a story about young people relying on parents to get them into the housing market. I purchased my first unit at 18 in the ADF and did without fast cars etc to make the repayments with a 17% interest rate. It is tougher these days so I feel for all going through this trauma.

It's honestly scary how much people I know who are genuinely afraid of what the future looks like which is my whole issue with this Referendum. I do believe Aboriginal rights are important but this is a time where the world as a whole is moving towards a rapid cost of living crisis & this is quite obviously the more important issue.

 

[Enmore_Tiger]

I usually like to stay out of topics like these but wanted to give my 2 cents. As a young bloke this referendum feels like a slap in the face to all of us worrying about how the future looks... at this rate we'll never be able to afford to buy a house, some people I know have had to move back in with their parents because the rental market is crazy, the cost of living is shooting up like a rocket but the minimum wage is hardly increasing & yet all I see over the news is our PM wearing a vote yes shirt. If he really cared that much about Aboriginals why doesn't he head over to NT & try & actually do something over there with all the problems they got going on?

You say you're voting no you get accused of being a racist & not caring about our first nation people which is a total load of BS. I understand that what happened to the Aboriginal people was sad, heart breaking, unfair & completely undeserved but this happened over 100 years ago & what can anyone do about it today? Is that a racist thing to say or is that the truth? There are plenty of programmes/initiatives that our first nations people receive as many people here have noted out.

It feels like the world has moved towards a landscape of catering to minorities & no one is really tackling any issues to help EVERYONE which is causing more & more division/unrest amongst the population. Referendums like the SSM bill you can get behind because it's just handing people basic human rights but this Referendum just seems like a big what if & we've hardly heard what this Referendum is set out to achieve just our PM walking around Redfern in a vote yes shirt.

When you get into the detailed mechanics of it, Colonialism is a process of Capitalism.

So it was Capitalism that destroyed aboriginal society and now it is coming for your generation as you cannot buy a house, cost of living etc as you describe. Capitalism determines the minimum wage that has not moved.

Capitalism divides wealth and society into classes, creating an ever increasing gap between rich and poor. This is what you are experiencing now.

In the case of the large gap between aboriginal society and the rest of the nation (as in 'closing the gap') it is an extreme gap created by capitalism. So while the prevailing economic system exists, that gap will never be closed.

So the real division, the division that actually impacts people, is driven by the economic system.

As a 'yes' supporter I have been extremely dismayed that this vote is taking place in a time of such terrible economic difficulty for so many.

The Liberal Party is the predominant pro-Capitslist party, it supports the monied classes. Elements of the 'no' campaign, lead by the Liberal Party, are actively pitting the classes struggling for money against each other - Aboriginal Australians against Aussie Battlers. An example of this is the false claim being made by the 'no' campaign that the Voice will necessarily lead to reparations and other payments.

This suits them as while the Battlers are focus on the Indigenous, they are not seeing what is really destroying their way of life.

Further to some of your other points, massacres occured into the 1930's. Well less than 100 years ago. Indigenous not counted as human beings existed up until 1967, stollen children into the 1970s. Stollen wages, which actually constitutes slavery, into the 1980s etc. The economic division, as a class of people, continues to present day. Deaths in custody and incarceration rates are now.

I hope my post reads as respectful to you as a person. I empathise and respect with the frustrations you describe. My point really is be watchful when you are told to 'look over there'.

 

[bptiger 0]

I usually like to stay out of topics like these but wanted to give my 2 cents. As a young bloke this referendum feels like a slap in the face to all of us worrying about how the future looks... at this rate we'll never be able to afford to buy a house, some people I know have had to move back in with their parents because the rental market is crazy, the cost of living is shooting up like a rocket but the minimum wage is hardly increasing & yet all I see over the news is our PM wearing a vote yes shirt. If he really cared that much about Aboriginals why doesn't he head over to NT & try & actually do something over there with all the problems they got going on?

You say you're voting no you get accused of being a racist & not caring about our first nation people which is a total load of BS. I understand that what happened to the Aboriginal people was sad, heart breaking, unfair & completely undeserved but this happened over 100 years ago & what can anyone do about it today? Is that a racist thing to say or is that the truth? There are plenty of programmes/initiatives that our first nations people receive as many people here have noted out.

It feels like the world has moved towards a landscape of catering to minorities & no one is really tackling any issues to help EVERYONE which is causing more & more division/unrest amongst the population. Referendums like the SSM bill you can get behind because it's just handing people basic human rights but this Referendum just seems like a big what if & we've hardly heard what this Referendum is set out to achieve just our PM walking around Redfern in a vote yes shirt.

Well said

 

[bptiger 0]

When you get into the detailed mechanics of it, Colonialism is a process of Capitalism.

So it was Capitalism that destroyed aboriginal society and now it is coming for your generation as you cannot buy a house, cost of living etc as you describe.

Capitalism divides wealth and society into classes, creating an ever increasing gap between rich and poor. This is what you are experiencing now.

In the case of the large gap between aboriginal society and the rest of the nation (as in 'closing the gap') it is an extreme gap created by capitalism. So while the prevailing economic system exists, that gap will never be closed.

As a 'yes' supporter I have been extremely dismayed that this vote is taking place in a time of such terrible economic difficulty for so many.

The Liberal Party is the predominant pro-Capitslist party, it supports the monied classes. Elements of the 'no' campaign, lead by the Liberal Party, are actively pitting the classes struggling for money against each other - Aboriginal Australians against Aussie Battlers. An example of this is the false claim being made by the 'no' campaign that the Voice will necessarily lead to reparations and other payments.

This suits them as while the Battlers are focus on the Indigenous, they are not seeing what is really destroying their way of life.

Maybe u need to listen to Mr mayo , that’s his only goal for reparation and a big slice of our Gtp every year , how can u say other wise when it comes straight from his mouth on tv

 

[Kaito]

It's honestly scary how much people I know who are genuinely afraid of what the future looks like which is my whole issue with this Referendum. I do believe Aboriginal rights are important but this is a time where the world as a whole is moving towards a rapid cost of living crisis & this is quite obviously the more important issues

We have/are wasting billions of dollars on things
like Robodebt, Jobkeeper & nuclear submarines
In the last few years. None of these things have
kept you or anyone from getting your first home.
Cost of living crisis has nothing to do with the
voice — it's due to corporate greed, tax breaks,
negative gearing, lack of wage increases,
so on and so forth. Not saying Albo has the
answers by any stretch, but the last decade
hasn't been very kind to the battlers if that's who
you're waving your flag for. Sad state of affairs.

 

[Kaito]

When you get into the detailed mechanics of it, Colonialism is a process of Capitalism.

So it was Capitalism that destroyed aboriginal society and now it is coming for your generation as you cannot buy a house, cost of living etc as you describe. Capitalism determines the minimum wage that has not moved.

Capitalism divides wealth and society into classes, creating an ever increasing gap between rich and poor. This is what you are experiencing now.

In the case of the large gap between aboriginal society and the rest of the nation (as in 'closing the gap') it is an extreme gap created by capitalism. So while the prevailing economic system exists, that gap will never be closed.

So the real division, the division that actually impacts people, is driven by the economic system.

As a 'yes' supporter I have been extremely dismayed that this vote is taking place in a time of such terrible economic difficulty for so many.

The Liberal Party is the predominant pro-Capitslist party, it supports the monied classes. Elements of the 'no' campaign, lead by the Liberal Party, are actively pitting the classes struggling for money against each other - Aboriginal Australians against Aussie Battlers. An example of this is the false claim being made by the 'no' campaign that the Voice will necessarily lead to reparations and other payments.

This suits them as while the Battlers are focus on the Indigenous, they are not seeing what is really destroying their way of life.

Further to some of your other points, massacres occured into the 1930's. Well less than 100 years ago. Indigenous not counted as human beings existed up until 1967, stollen children into the 1970s. Stollen wages, which actually constitutes slavery, into the 1980s etc. The economic division, as a class of people, continues to present day. Deaths in custody and incarceration rates are now.

I hope my post reads as respectful to you as a person. I empathise and respect with the frustrations you describe. My point really is be watchful when you are told to 'look over there'.

Well said. Articulated what I just posted much
better than me and in greater detail, thank you

 

[Enmore_Tiger]

Maybe u need to listen to Mr mayo , that’s his only goal for reparation and a big slice of our Gtp every year , how can u say other wise when it comes straight from his mouth on tv

The Voice is a non-binding advisory body, the Government in power will decide if recommendations are taken up or not. So even if reparations were proposed, they would not likely be paid, and if they were, it would be by a democratically elected government.

 

[Tucker]

Good. Until we find a resolution it shouldn't go
away. I just don't think an election will be won
or lost on the back of it as I mentioned earlier.

Why do you think this?
For mine, I think most of the population agree Albo and his lot have botched this.
That means a heap of YES people will be upset with them. They will be added to the majority of the country who they have spoken down to who will punish them.

Only 8 out of the 44 previous referendums have been successful and all that have succeeded have had bipartisan support. I read that earlier, interesting

Yes it’s a tough thing to get passed. The double majority is what kills them.
It’s interesting that of the 8 carried, all but one returned a vote of 6:0 for the affirmative from the states as well as high voter percentages. A further 5 issues won the popular vote but not enough states agreed.

 

[Tucker]

When you get into the detailed mechanics of it, Colonialism is a process of Capitalism.

So it was Capitalism that destroyed aboriginal society and now it is coming for your generation as you cannot buy a house, cost of living etc as you describe. Capitalism determines the minimum wage that has not moved.

Capitalism divides wealth and society into classes, creating an ever increasing gap between rich and poor. This is what you are experiencing now.

In the case of the large gap between aboriginal society and the rest of the nation (as in 'closing the gap') it is an extreme gap created by capitalism. So while the prevailing economic system exists, that gap will never be closed.

So the real division, the division that actually impacts people, is driven by the economic system.

As a 'yes' supporter I have been extremely dismayed that this vote is taking place in a time of such terrible economic difficulty for so many.

The Liberal Party is the predominant pro-Capitslist party, it supports the monied classes. Elements of the 'no' campaign, lead by the Liberal Party, are actively pitting the classes struggling for money against each other - Aboriginal Australians against Aussie Battlers. An example of this is the false claim being made by the 'no' campaign that the Voice will necessarily lead to reparations and other payments.

This suits them as while the Battlers are focus on the Indigenous, they are not seeing what is really destroying their way of life.

Further to some of your other points, massacres occured into the 1930's. Well less than 100 years ago. Indigenous not counted as human beings existed up until 1967, stollen children into the 1970s. Stollen wages, which actually constitutes slavery, into the 1980s etc. The economic division, as a class of people, continues to present day. Deaths in custody and incarceration rates are now.

I hope my post reads as respectful to you as a person. I empathise and respect with the frustrations you describe. My point really is be watchful when you are told to 'look over there'.

Good post.
One thing I’ll dispute though is your certainty that “the false claim being made by the 'no' campaign that the Voice will necessarily lead to reparations and other payments” is true.
None of us know this. All we have to go off is YES Campaign scoffing at the notion on one side and the NO Campaign pointing at the Uluṟu Statement containing passages directly referencing and calling for it on the other.

 

[twentyforty]

I usually like to stay out of topics like these but wanted to give my 2 cents. As a young bloke this referendum feels like a slap in the face to all of us worrying about how the future looks... at this rate we'll never be able to afford to buy a house, some people I know have had to move back in with their parents because the rental market is crazy, the cost of living is shooting up like a rocket but the minimum wage is hardly increasing & yet all I see over the news is our PM wearing a vote yes shirt. If he really cared that much about Aboriginals why doesn't he head over to NT & try & actually do something over there with all the problems they got going on?

You say you're voting no you get accused of being a racist & not caring about our first nation people which is a total load of BS. I understand that what happened to the Aboriginal people was sad, heart breaking, unfair & completely undeserved but this happened over 100 years ago & what can anyone do about it today? Is that a racist thing to say or is that the truth? There are plenty of programmes/initiatives that our first nations people receive as many people here have noted out.

It feels like the world has moved towards a landscape of catering to minorities & no one is really tackling any issues to help EVERYONE which is causing more & more division/unrest amongst the population. Referendums like the SSM bill you can get behind because it's just handing people basic human rights but this Referendum just seems like a big what if & we've hardly heard what this Referendum is set out to achieve just our PM walking around Redfern in a vote yes shirt.

You can tell when times are tough, when people are shoplifting food.
Coles employees will start wearing body cameras and GM Sophie Wong says it’s a necessity due to the physical and verbal abuse which has dramatically increased due to cost of living pressures.
Shoplifting has increased dramatically, with main items being top cuts of meat, baby formula and beauty products.