Referendum

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earl said:
It's misinformation. We have a spend on all Australians which includes Indigenous people and yourself and myself. Then we have a specific Indigenous spend. That is the extra or the delta or whatever you want to call it.

I want to be really clear. The $40 billion dollar figure is misinformation. It's basically an outright lie. They are honestly breaking down spending on aged care, the defense forces etc and trying to apportion that out to Indigenous people. It's completely dodgy and false data.

It also has nothing to do with my narrative. I don't want to have a narrative. I want facts and then to discuss the facts. The facts should be clear and open and then we can discuss the issues.

It's always going to be the delta spend that matters. A good way to look at this is to flip the argument. Do you get rid of hospital care or aged care or the pension for Indigenous people ?

You should read that article to provide more information:-



It's such a stupid way to view the breakdown of spending you could argue against any group in Australia being privileged just by without any facts stating well x amount of dollars is spend on group X for instance.
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It is not.

It entirely depends on the person using that in their argument. I wasn't using it in an argument, I was just reiterating that it is verifiably false that this is 'misinformation'.

Though, if somebody is referring, in general terms, to indigenous spending, then it is an appropriate figure to use. The same as it would be if referring to women, Muslims, immigrants or people who support Canberra Raiders.

If you are referring to additional, extra spending on indigenous only programs, then yes, that number is not reflective of the actual spend. But people using that figure rarely are. That doesn't make it misinformation, it is simply a factual and objectively true spending figure used in conversations that contain different pretenses.

I clearly understand the point you're making Earl, and in the context in which you are talking about, you're 100% correct. But you're overusing the word 'misinformation' and conflating that term with small sample size of the contexts in which people may be using that figure.
 
Odessa said:
If you listen to David littleproud he has some good information and ideas and is the best Politician I have heard talking about Aboriginal problems and thinks canberra has no idea
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David Littleproud was a prominent member of the Government for 10 years. His party had an enormous amount of political capital. They were a large part of the "Canberra" aparatus. Can you point me to any initiatives he helped implement for Aboriginal people in rural and remote communities?
 
earl said:
www.abc.net.au

Scratch the surface of the Voice results, and a more complicated picture emerges

Scratch the surface of the Voice referendum results, and a more complicated picture emerges.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

This is actually an interesting article. It's also interesting in relation to how the last referendum namely that of becoming a republic.

It'd be interesting hearing any thoughts on that info.
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Im going to read this article in full.

I caution you though, basing all your information or perspective on the ABC is as bad on the left as those on the right doing the same with Sky News.

As someone who reads every outlet I can to gauge the truth somewhere in the middle, the ABC, just like Sky, are about as impartial as Geoff Toovey in a press conference.

The problem with the ABC bias is it is veiled in understanding, or at least an attempt to portray that angle, which is alluring for the casual news absorber.
 
There seems to be a narrative that the "mainstream media" were actively campaigning for the Voice.

80% of op-ed in Murdoch rags (which is the only form of print news in Queensland and Western Australia) and the most read in all other states were in opposition to the Voice.

Two companies own 80 percent of the readership in Australia. We have the most monopolised media ownership in the Western world. News Corp itself owns 59 percent. And essentially functions as a propaganda arm for conservative politicians.

The campaign failed. It was a resounding no vote but spare me this narrative about "mainstream media".
 
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Wearyfan22 said:
There seems to be a narrative that the "mainstream media" were actively campaigning for the Voice.

80% of op-ed in Murdoch rags (which is the only form of print news in Queensland and Western Australia) and the most read in all other states were in opposition to the Voice.
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Things will not improve under the new boss as he is even further to the right than his father as hard as it is to believe
 
Odessa said:
Very well said also it would be nice to audit the 40 billion that is giving to them every year on top of what the general public is entitled to

NT all voted No and I find that strange but there is stories that most of the money doesn't get to them is taken up by the private companies making money off them with inflated salarys and over charging on services

They was a company in Sydney a.friend of mine worked for and they made my mate get a cert 5 training certificate and some other employees get the same

They hired some rooms in mascot and started training Aboriginal people how to fill out a job application and what to wear to a job interview this was about 15 years ago a.5 day course and

For each Aboriginal that turned up on day 1 they received $3700 tax free in his class that he trained day 1 was about 15 people on average and by the end of it 5/6 people and they received a certificate but the company on some weeks received so much money his best week they made $74000

He quit in the end
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Well the first thing imo would be full disclosure and audit of the current $5.6 billion we allocate to Aboriginal Affairs, and some recommendations on whether that money is going to the right Aunties and Uncles( never really understood why they are all called that).
YOU CANT MANAGE WHAT YOU DONT MEASURE, so lets start measuring big time. And surely like every other Govt department the MINISTER is responsible for allocation of funds.
And if Albo keeps crying over it, why dont we make him Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and get a proper PM.
 
hank37w said:
Of course it was Dutton's fault, he should never have pointed out all the flaws in the YES campaign and shown the voting public what a dickhead Albo actually is, although Albo did a pretty good job of that on his own.
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You cant expect bi partisan support on a blatantly socialist policy with no hard detail. It was all too KUMBAYA
I think Dutton did exactly what he should have done, demand more solid information before the vote, and if not forthcoming then oppose it.
Albo has spent too long in an inner city hard core left environment, so he really needs to get out more and talk to the 60% of Aussies who said no, and take up the fight for their problems.
Lets work for the majority instead of always yielding to minorities !
 
Wearyfan22 said:
It was a resounding no vote but spare me this narrative about "mainstream media".
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There is a difference between facts and feelings. I read an article I think on the ABC site and a dad and his daughter went and voted. The dad voted yes but the daughter voted no because she was sick of the media telling her who to vote for.

I think it's nonsense but people feel that way.
 
Wearyfan22 said:
There seems to be a narrative that the "mainstream media" were actively campaigning for the Voice.

80% of op-ed in Murdoch rags (which is the only form of print news in Queensland and Western Australia) and the most read in all other states were in opposition to the Voice.

Two companies own 80 percent of the readership in Australia. We have the most monopolised media ownership in the Western world. News Corp itself owns 59 percent. And essentially functions as a propaganda arm for conservative politicians.

The campaign failed. It was a resounding no vote but spare me this narrative about "mainstream media".
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You couldn’t turn on any tv channel bar Sky news without being swamped by Yes campaign propaganda.
 
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Kelce68 said:
Indigenous-specific spend is on indigenous only programs, money that they're give on top. Money that no other subset of the population gets access to.

Fair?

Obviously, the remaining amount was still spent on indigenous people, but through welfare programs that other Australians also have access to. This doesn't mean its not spent on indigenous people.

Therefore, when people say $40 billion (or thereabouts) are spent each year on indigineous people, they are correct. You can't just erase the other $30-odd billion from the conversation because it doesn't fit your narrative.

They still receive those funds.

Unequivocally.

No one is saying 'we spend $40 million on indigenous-only programs'.
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i just want a fully itemised account of where and to who that money is spent. its currently all smoke and mirrors. im sure Chalmers would have the data.
 
earl said:
There is a difference between facts and feelings. I read an article I think on the ABC site and a dad and his daughter went and voted. The dad voted yes but the daughter voted no because she was sick of the media telling her who to vote for.

I think it's nonsense but people feel that way.
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earl said:
There is a difference between facts and feelings. I read an article I think on the ABC site and a dad and his daughter went and voted. The dad voted yes but the daughter voted no because she was sick of the media telling her who to vote for.

I think it's nonsense but people feel that way.
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News is run as a business. Newscorp is a very successful business. That business model is incentivised by click bait, rage bait and polarised opinions. Engage angry people on social media to get more eyes on. Shame.
 
So are you saying thats frequent occurrence or using it to justify your arguments.
Theres were lots of reasons to vote no,many nothing to do with media.
 
Tucker said:
Lol what a load of shit you talk.
You couldn’t turn on any tv channel bar Sky news without being swamped by Yes campaign propaganda.
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Typically abrasive response to anyone with a different point of view to you. I gave you facts and you respond with feelings. Want to respond to my comment on your previous post pointing out that it was blatantly incorrect.
 
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Halbrowne61 said:
So are you saying thats frequent occurrence or using it to justify your arguments.
Theres were lots of reasons to vote no,many nothing to do with media.
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Agreed. End of the day the argument wasn't convincing enough. We live in a democracy, play on. I'm making a counter point to several posters on here who have talked about the role of mainstream media/media elites in pushing the yes campaign. That is just not true.
 
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