Charlie Staines #262

[Mighty_Tiger]

I think the absolute lack of progress that has been made since Madge shows his sacking can go down as one of the poorest decisions the club has made in recent memory. Really feel for the guy.

I agree re lack of progress but then flip it and have a view the Madge system could be the cause for that also. It mostly always takes new ways of working a good 12-18mths to shape into reality. Madge was punted due for the same excuse used re lack of progress. Remember we were going backwards results wise before he was punted. It’s a results business end of day and he had multiple years at which he just couldn’t get it working (yes multiple reasons why outside of his control but he also had plenty in his control as well).

End of day he is gone, it’s clear the way forward we are somewhat building and the team do seem united and buying into Benji which is a positive. He has retained everyone so far he wanted and let go the right players as well. Let’s see how if his coaching can deliver us improvements result wise. He is starting from the lowest base a rookie has started from for a very long time.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I know Benji has said he always wanted to be a coach, but nothing in his career choices suggests that until the offer from WT.

I know right. There was never even a hint of him showing interest in it during his career. He strikes me as the type of guy who woke up one day and was like “I might give that coaching thing a go”.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

I know right. There was never even a hint of him showing interest in it during his career. He strikes me as the type of guy who woke one day and was like “I might give that coaching thing a go”.

I disagree re interest part during his playing career. When injured he spent most of his time in the coaching box alot more than any other player I have seen (not just us but any NRL team) both home and away games. He also would spend alot of time with kids and camp activities which alot of people never saw.

As to how it happened it wasn’t planned he would even say that. The club panicked on Ciraldo which lead to abrupt end of Madge they reacted to the Bulldogs chatter and then had to save face which lead us down this path. To be fair to Benji he hasn’t deflected, he is dedicated and is taking full ownership. He is saying/doing alot of the right things let’s see if results follow.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I disagree re interest part during his playing career. When injured he spent most of his time in the coaching box alot more than any other player I have seen (not just us but any NRL team) both home and away games. He also would spend alot of time with kids and camp activities which alot of people never saw.

You’re drawing a pretty long bow there.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

You’re drawing a pretty long bow there.

As are you….

 

[GNR4LIFE]

As are you….

Not really. He never expressed any desire during his playing career. The first we heard of it was the day it was announced.

 

[Flippedy]

Out of the frying pan into the fire as the Blues Coach. More prestige comes with more expectation, more criticism. The WTs job will have at least prepared him somewhat if it goes to crap.

Yeah true, he’s really up against it coaching the Blues. I honestly can’t see a series win in them whilever Slater is in charge of Queensland. Never seen a Blues team look more like Wests Tigers in my life than last season. Total lack of confidence and urgency, despite all the rhetoric to the contrary.

 

[Bigscreentv]

Rightly or wrongly, I formed the opinion from listening to Sheens. The CEO wanted Madge gone. Sheens’ appointment as head of footy was introduced badly. ‘Maguire can get advice from Sheens too if he wants.’ The CEO and board tried to sack Madge well before Sheens was signed. We know what happened next. The CEO tells Sheens to sack Madge.
Doesnt take too long before Sheens is now on the bad side of the CEO, so hence the same procedure, Fulton is secretly parachuted in in a clandestine operation 😂
Watch your back Benji. 😂
Since we sacked Madge we have a much better team, but I think that would have happened anyway.
I wonder if any of these “robust conversations” Lee talks about have anything to do with winning? I know we’ve won 5 games post Madge, but we’ve been in 36. 😤

“Robust discussions”. Code for “I talk a big game but am really weak as piss”.

People that are good at their job just get in with it without robust discussions.

The culture created by those muppets is absolutely terrible. If Benji succeeds it will be all him and his coaching staff.

 

[earl]

End of day he is gone, it’s clear the way forward we are somewhat building and the team do seem united and buying into Benji which is a positive. He has retained everyone so far he wanted and let go the right players as well.

I think as per last season we've made some good progress in relation to our squad. We seem to be keeping the right players. Benji appears to have the players supporting him.

The thing is none of it counts unless we win more games.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

Not really. He never expressed any desire during his playing career. The first we heard of it was the day it was announced.

So just because you never heard about then he never did. You’re clutching at straws. Most players don’t talk about life after footy publicly let alone coaching aspirations until they are coaching in some form.

 

[weststigerman]

I think the absolute lack of progress that has been made since Madge shows his sacking can go down as one of the poorest decisions the club has made in recent memory. Really feel for the guy.

I think about half of the forum said at the time it was a mistake.

The other half thought we'd get a new coach with a magical game plan to get the best out of the players.

Turns out the roster was rubbish and we had no room to move in the salary cap until this year due to Ivan's mess.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

So just because you never heard about then he never did. You’re clutching at straws. Most players don’t talk about life after footy publicly let alone coaching aspirations until they are coaching in some form.

Mate, you’re equating him sitting in a coaching box as a sign that he had ambitions to be a coach. And somehow kept tabs on every other player in the comp that none of them spent as many games in the coaching box as he did.

 

[Tiger_Yoshi]

I agree re lack of progress but then flip it and have a view the Madge system could be the cause for that also. It mostly always takes new ways of working a good 12-18mths to shape into reality. Madge was punted due for the same excuse used re lack of progress. Remember we were going backwards results wise before he was punted. It’s a results business end of day and he had multiple years at which he just couldn’t get it working (yes multiple reasons why outside of his control but he also had plenty in his control as well).

End of day he is gone, it’s clear the way forward we are somewhat building and the team do seem united and buying into Benji which is a positive. He has retained everyone so far he wanted and let go the right players as well. Let’s see how if his coaching can deliver us improvements result wise. He is starting from the lowest base a rookie has started from for a very long time.

He wants the following out, but they are not budging:

1) Nofo
2) Simpkins
3) AJ
4) Tumeth

 

[BlackWhiteGold]

He wants the following out, but they are not budging:

1) Nofo
2) Simpkins
3) AJ
4) Tumeth

Is that opinion or actual intel @Tiger_Yoshi ?

I think that's right about the first 3 if another club was interested in taking their contracts. Probably in Simpkins & AJ's best interests to find another club asap otherwise they will just go un-signed for '25 by us anyway.

Tumeth, I would think Benji will want see how he progresses both physically & on-field this season given his age 20, pathways progress & representing all the way up to U19s.

 

[Leck]

Is that opinion or actual intel @Tiger_Yoshi ?

I think that's right about the first 3 if another club was interested in taking their contracts. Probably in Simpkins & AJ's best interests to find another club asap otherwise they will just go un-signed for '25 by us anyway.

Tumeth, I would think Benji will want see how he progresses both physically & on-field this season given his age 20, pathways progress & representing all the way up to U19s.

I agree, Tumeth has potential. The other three have had their chance.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Tumeth was impressive when he played that NRL trial and was very strong in defence. I think he has a great work ethic and we should see more of him.

 

[crazycat]

Sheens was forced into a role that he was not brought back to the club for, on the back of Pascoe and Lee H's failure to attract another coach to the club after sacking the one they extended the year before.
He should have never been put in that position. Now Benji finds himself in the same predicament and possibly with a recruitment manager that he doesnt see eye to eye with. If he fails as plenty expect him to - this is all on them. How many payouts are the board prepared to tolerate before there is some accountability - they should be sacked on the basis of that alone.
Every failure that has occurred at the club is on the back of decisions made by the blokes in charge - and yet they are still given the power to make them - hopefully not for much longer.

Sheens was coach!

He accepted the job and his qualifications for "head coach" was that he could "coach".

Where I fault the board/"head coach" is in not valuing NRL experience. We had a choice for assistant for Madge, one being Nathan Cayless (IMHO seemed a good choice that did not work out. Anyone know why?) and another assistant.

Between Gardiner and Shane Flanagan.

Had we agreed on Flanagan for 2022 we would have had a ready made head coach replacement. Heck he would have pushed Madge out. I get the board wanting to avoid that kind of trouble, yet seeing how Manly went under Siebold + Dymock/Flanagan we see Flanagan was valuable as an assistant.

-- Really interested how St George (Flanno) and Manly (Siebold without Flanno) go this year.

the job of "head coach" is to have a good coaching succession plan. Sheens utterly failed in this and Sheens becoming coach is an example of this failure.

 

[Bob]

Yeah true, he’s really up against it coaching the Blues. I honestly can’t see a series win in them whilever Slater is in charge of Queensland. Never seen a Blues team look more like Wests Tigers in my life than last season. Total lack of confidence and urgency, despite all the rhetoric to the contrary.

I think it’s the coaching his suited to.
I think coaching origin is more about motivating and keeping standards high, from all accounts he is intensely and hard work ethic promotes this. It’s similar to what he had at both Souths and NZ currently. very different skillset than what is needed at a “development club” that are perennial bottom dwellers that we have here where the focus needs to be more on teaching skills, tactics and development to fringe first graders.

 

[TonyTiger]

I know right. There was never even a hint of him showing interest in it during his career. He strikes me as the type of guy who woke up one day and was like “I might give that coaching thing a go”.

Benji loves the club, that’s good enough for me.
Madge loved the Armorgard truck that delivered the remuneration to his home each week.
Benji was never the highest played player and he’s not our highest paid coach … I’ll take passion, loyalty and commitment over an outsider any day.

 

[Telltails]

Sheens was coach!

He accepted the job and his qualifications for "head coach" was that he could "coach".

Where I fault the board/"head coach" is in not valuing NRL experience. We had a choice for assistant for Madge, one being Nathan Cayless (IMHO seemed a good choice that did not work out. Anyone know why?) and another assistant.

Between Gardiner and Shane Flanagan.

Had we agreed on Flanagan for 2022 we would have had a ready made head coach replacement. Heck he would have pushed Madge out. I get the board wanting to avoid that kind of trouble, yet seeing how Manly went under Siebold + Dymock/Flanagan we see Flanagan was valuable as an assistant.

-- Really interested how St George (Flanno) and Manly (Siebold without Flanno) go this year.

the job of "head coach" is to have a good coaching succession plan. Sheens utterly failed in this and Sheens becoming coach is an example of this failure.

There was a succession plan until Lee and Pascoe interfered with football matters and blew it up.