OFFICIAL Pathways - KOE General Discussion

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BlackWhiteGold said:
Yep Alaimalo, Kirk & Casey were Ron Massey standard today.

Feledy, Broederlow, Cayne Nicholas, Herman & Sukkar were at their age Flegg level.

TDS lost it mentally today something he has to get better at.
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Went to the Lidcombe oval games today. Left disgusted at 1/2 time of KOE.
Watched close to 80 Plus points put on us to our ZERO! Had enough.
Penrith were too big, too fast and too skilful for our "future stars", both grades.
Was expecting to have a look at our hyped up next generation of future NRL players.
Didn't see them in Flegg or KOE today.
Penrith had class players way better than ours; right across the park.
I will be taking all the tipster predictions on almost all of these players with a grain of salt.
Years away from anything of NRL standard.
On a positive note, I thought number 20 - Josh Russell in Flegg stood out in that pack.
 
So is Matt Betsey to blame? Didn't he come from a cricket background?
Is Arron Payne to blame from a coaching POV.

Personally, our recruitment in the lower grades has been terrible. Massive overall is required to if these so called superstar kids are to come through in the right environment.
 
I also think picking guys from flegg age up into KOE is not really helping their development. I get what their trying to do, play them against men so they are ready for first grade asap. But wonder if this has a detrimental effect on their development to not play in a winning culture?!? We did the same thing with SG ball this season, playing players up. I’d rather they stuck together and were winning as l the way through the grades to keep that winning culture.
 
You can't criticise their consistency but their ability and performance is another matter.
They have been terrible for many years
 
There needs to be a system in place that is there to teach and guide and that is not there yet at West Tigers what we see constantly is inconsistent inept attitudes with and without the football, there is no discipline in attack or defense. Our KOE and Flegg coaches need to go they are part of the problem. Having hard heads in koe cup is part of the solution but it is not the absolute winning formula but it is a start. When we won Harold Matthews a couple of years ago look at the way the played the game what happened and why did that style stop??

Where is the skills and development program, where is the experts brought in to teach the kids about tactics positional play, kicking, tackling. We can bag Penrith the Roosters all we want but they have this in place.
 
How can a team be exposed constantly on the wings from simple shifts?

Watch the tries against us on the NSWRL video highlights & you will think you are watching U12s.

How is this team coached?
 
And what was the go with Herman only taking 1 hitup in 40mins? Coaching structure? TDS did seem to take another option at times when Herman was set.

Absolutely pitiful all round!
 
BlackWhiteGold said:
How can a team be exposed constantly on the wings from simple shifts?

Watch the tries against us on the NSWRL video highlights & you will think you are watching U12s.

How is this team coached?
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The constant shuffling of players positions is surely a part of it too. Eg...Sukkar is a prop, then he is 2nd row. Casey is a centre, then a wing, now a half. Feledy is left centre, now right centre. Valevatu is a hooker, then a half, then a lock, then a bench utility player.

I understand that KOE Cup will always have moving parts. But the fact is that these 4 examples will have been in Cup from start of the year to the end. They should have been given a position and kept working on it. This would allow combinations to form and hopefully we wouldnt get stripped of numbers so easily. Like you said, they are just simple shifts and we get caught out so easily.
 
BlackWhiteGold said:
And what was the go with Herman only taking 1 hitup in 40mins? Coaching structure? TDS did seem to take another option at times when Herman was set.

Absolutely pitiful all round!
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Didn't look like he wanted the tough carries and his 1 run he only ambled in. Didn't have much of a go last week either. Been a bit disappointed in his last fortnight, as when he is on, he is such a damaging runner.
 
I gave up on expecting wins in Cup very early in the season. They regularly have 8 or 9 changes per week. We also consistently have to use Massey players due to injuries and suspensions. The positional selections are head scratching. Players should only play in positions that they may play at NRL level. Just an example Mason at 7 and Casey at 6, No offence to either player but moving forward they won’t be playing NRL in those spots. Maybe it was out of necessity. I think any player in cup that is eligible for Flegg should play the remainder of 24 in Flegg. We may just salvage something out of this season if we do that.
 
Bellend said:
Honestly believe any chance players had of been develop has been set back by 2 years of inept coaching this season.
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Yes, Aaron Payne has not covered himself in glory. I found it telling earlier this year when Richo agreed that we needed more NRL experience players in our Cup team. Almost as if it was a plea from the coach.

End of the day, it is injuries, poor roster management and it is the first year of any real direction across the grades. Give it a couple of years and we'll see. Right now the Raiders and Bulldogs are a few years down that path and are right at the top of most grades from Matts onwards.
 
rihannafan1 said:
Yes, Aaron Payne has not covered himself in glory. I found it telling earlier this year when Richo agreed that we needed more NRL experience players in our Cup team. Almost as if it was a plea from the coach.

End of the day, it is injuries, poor roster management and it is the first year of any real direction across the grades. Give it a couple of years and we'll see. Right now the Raiders and Bulldogs are a few years down that path and are right at the top of most grades from Matts onwards.
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In a few years. That’s been our story for 20yrs.
Best juniors has been the line always used
Lack of being able to develop players has always been our issue.

Benji needs some major help brought in, he can’t do this himself. If we get the right structure and people in roles if the quality of talent is as people say we should results change quickly.

I’m not convinced we have the quality like some think we have.
 
rihannafan1 said:
Yes, Aaron Payne has not covered himself in glory. I found it telling earlier this year when Richo agreed that we needed more NRL experience players in our Cup team. Almost as if it was a plea from the coach.

End of the day, it is injuries, poor roster management and it is the first year of any real direction across the grades. Give it a couple of years and we'll see. Right now the Raiders and Bulldogs are a few years down that path and are right at the top of most grades from Matts onwards.
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Getting belted every week effects the players confidence, it does not help develop young players whatsoever.
How do we get player ID and player development so wrong ?
We have not had a fast winger since Allan Fitzgibbon, I can’t remember the last time we had a controlling halfback with a good kicking game and we very rarely have forwards with aggression, willing to run the ball at speed, use footwork or a step.
I understand not every rep junior will progress to NRL, but we have a production line of them that go backwards in our system and as far as the forwards go it seems a common occurrence they all stagnate due to playing with a lack of aggression, lack of intensity, not willing to run the ball hard or often and no unpredictably in their game such as changes of direction, change of pace, footwork or a step.
As others have mentioned sure we also seem to regularly lack forwards with size, but size alone won’t take the player to the NRL. Sure it helps, but it’s the above listed traits that are regularly missing and what is causing the problem of players not progressing and poor results because of it.
Alex Seyfarth was constantly ripping and tearing when playing NSW Cup for us as was Shawn Blore, hence the reason there was no doubt both of these players would eventually bring that quality to NRL level despite plenty of our fans doubting them at the time.
 
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lathami said:
I also think picking guys from flegg age up into KOE is not really helping their development. I get what their trying to do, play them against men so they are ready for first grade asap. But wonder if this has a detrimental effect on their development to not play in a winning culture?!? We did the same thing with SG ball this season, playing players up. I’d rather they stuck together and were winning as l the way through the grades to keep that winning culture.
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Think you have hit the nail on the head here. They don’t really value lower grades and use it as trials for first grade. Interestingly, they often refer to the HM team of 23 and the talent from that team.
 
Chipofftheoldblock said:
So is Matt Betsey to blame? Didn't he come from a cricket background?
Is Arron Payne to blame from a coaching POV.

Personally, our recruitment in the lower grades has been terrible. Massive overall is required to if these so called superstar kids are to come through in the right environment.
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Betsey.
Not doing a good job it seems.
 
Tucker said:
Betsey.
Not doing a good job it seems.
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I’ve said this many times before, we are virtually the only NRL club that makes next to no changes to their playing roster during the season despite extremely poor results.
There are countless players across the competition regularly standing out for their clubs who are crying out for a rival club to sign them and provide better NRL opportunities, yet we constantly sit back, do nothing and keep saying we are a development club. As I keep saying we are only developing players that go backwards in their careers by constantly having a NSW Cup team that is a rabble and getting belted on the scoreboard every week.
90% of the time our players start the game like they are half asleep, where is the motivation that impressing with some energetic aggressive carries or a couple of big hits will impress and potentially make them NRL worthy ?
 
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