The obsession about Bateman is over the top. He is not anywhere near as undisciplined as some make out but people choose to believe it anyway. Never liked the deal from the get go but he is not the reason we got the threepeat and seems to be one of the favoured scapegoats.
Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion
- Thread starter MacDougall
- Start date
Tom Shines
Well-known member
Will be interesting to see how often him and Benji are blueing and no talkies next season
hank37w
Well-known member
No rest for the wicked. 🤣
hank37w
Well-known member
No need to tell him. 🤣
BAGNF05
Well-known member
We’ll have a lot less $$ though
BAGNF05
Well-known member
Winning fixes most issues.
liltiger
Well-known member
If Bateman says he wants to just stay and not return his new contract with us never gets lodged.
If he says he is returning we are obligated to lodge the new contract under the agreement. By doing that Bateman guarantees the value of the contract for the length of the contract. So he says he's returning, we lodge the contract, his manager says he has somewhere in England that will pay him 350k, we agree in order to open up a top 30 spot and pay the remaining 300k for the next 2 years under the new contract.
If he just stays he will only earn whatever any given superleague club will offer him.
If he says he is returning we are obligated to lodge the new contract under the agreement. By doing that Bateman guarantees the value of the contract for the length of the contract. So he says he's returning, we lodge the contract, his manager says he has somewhere in England that will pay him 350k, we agree in order to open up a top 30 spot and pay the remaining 300k for the next 2 years under the new contract.
If he just stays he will only earn whatever any given superleague club will offer him.
I couldn’t care less about his ill discipline, the major issue is his attack, he is not capable of breaking tackles or scoring tries like every other decent edge back rower does.
When saying not capable, really it’s lack of heart and effort, he’s not willing to run onto the ball at speed which is required, particularly for smaller back rowers.
Case example Luke Garner last night and you can safely assume Garner is only earning around 200k, a third of what we are paying Bateman, yet he is a regular attacking threat for his team.
Jack Bird as an edge back rower is a much better and more dangerous attacking player and even the much maligned Alex Seyfarth at least does his best to run onto the ball at speed and has been rewarded with line breaks and tries because of it.
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Could u now , put that in English, I list u after IF 🤔😜
BAGNF05
Well-known member
The best back rower in the comp has scored two tries this year. Tries are well down the list in back rower KPI’s.
liltiger
Well-known member
Sorry the nuts and bolts of it is we made an agreement with Bateman to re-sign him if he would go to free up cap space to help us. If Bateman says he wishes to return we are obligated to give him the new deal. Which is around 600k a year over the next 2 years.
If Bateman says I like England I don't want to return, he is essentially walking away from the 2 yr deal with us and we don't have to pay anything.
What I think is happening is Bateman is saying he wants to return but has every intention to stay in England. By saying he wants to return we have to offer him the new 2 year deal. What will prob happen is Bateman finds a super league club who pays him roughly 300k a year and then we must pay 300k a year to meet how much we were willing to pay him under the new contract. The reason we would do this is to free up a roster spot. If Bateman says he doesn't want to return we can wash our hands of it and say he breached the agreement so if he earns 300k in superleague that's all he will earn.
Any half decent edge back rower needs to be an attacking threat for his team, just being a decent defender does not cut it in the NRL.
Without attacking threats on both edges, it makes it much tougher on the playmakers and the centre/winger outside the player who is not an attacking threat as the defence is under no stress when the ball comes their way.
I did sayTACKLE BREAKS and tries.
A player won’t be making many tackle breaks or helping their team get on the front foot when they shat themselves every time they get the ball, stop jink and run back sideways across field,
Hard running fearless attacking players are required on the edges.
To add to this, boring lacklustre attack also effects the defence as the opposition team is under little to no duress when defending, therefore has plenty of energy and confidence to run hard and take risks when they have the ball.
Get our attack humming with minimal errors and it will assist in our defence becoming much better also,
BAGNF05
Well-known member
Not if the team has attacking threats in the key attacking positions, like we will next year. Liam Martin has scored two tries, and is among the most feared back rowers in the game. It’s about balance in your team.
How did Souths go with Koloamatangi?
Bateman offered x-factor in his Raiders days and helped get them to a GF. 18 months ago he lead England to a 3-0 whitewash with his off-loads being a key attacking threat.
You just need to play to your strengths as a team.
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Liam Martin runs the ball kamikaze style and is a genuine attacking threat and menace to his opposition every time he gets the ball.
The way Liam Martin runs the ball compared with John Bateman is worlds apart.
Kalomatangi is a big unit and a quality player with super human strength which makes him so effective, but he too has started to stop and jink rather than running hard like he used to.
Souths and the Eels are nearly as ineffective on their edges as what we are and guess where they finished ?
BAGNF05
Well-known member
My point is you need multiple attacking weapons and if you’re relying on a Liam Martin to get you points too bad. Penrith are going ok with his lack of tries.
Bateman at his best is a first grade NRL player better than the guys we fielded most of this year.
Our edge defense fell away terribly after he and Paps went down.
BlackWhiteGold
Well-known member
If he does return as reported, as long as he aims up with 100% effort & commitment, he still has something to offer.
He & Benji will need to sort out any differences immediately on return, he needs to respect Benji (and vice versa) & follow the team plan, he needs to train & play at 100%, & he needs to provide experience & leadership. If he does that, welcome back!
But I do think this is all manager poker!
You don't rate him plenty agree. Garner was bagged consistently on here for his laziness and was a much a victim/result of an underperforming squad as Bateman. For the most part our D was much better when IPap and Batemen played because they were averaging 35 + tackles a game and playing for 80 - that's not a display of lack of effort. Very few back rowers can fullfill both roles of being the damaging running back rower and covering that much D. and play for 80mins
Well it took Benji until the last 2 rounds to work out that Seyfarth is the only player in our current squad that can hold his own defensively on the right edge. Unfortunately by the last round we were depleted by injuries and some of our better players were physically and mentally cooked.
We need to find a way to terminate Bateman’s contract, he makes our team worse when he plays.
Why are coaches so insistent that edge back rowers have to play for 80 minutes each game ?
I think a combination of Jack Bird and Alex Seyfarth on our right edge would be very beneficial and a massive improvement on what we have had in recent times,
I understand the middles need rotating, but instead of using bench players for 5 or 10 minutes each game, surely we can get much higher energy and much better quality if interchanging an edge such as possibly Bird and Seyfarth ?
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TSP
Well-known member
At any rate, I don’t think Yeos game last night detracted too much from my gushing assessment of him yesterday
He deserves a seat at the table of modern era greats or current greats or what have you.
I was waiting for our incoming Tigers to be given generous early marks in case they sustained a slight hair ruffling by the wind.
JL has his usual game of dominance. Horrific loss for them imho.