Fonua Pole #257

[tig_prmz]

No I understand that entirely as a human being, but Pole for example is barely an established first grader, so if he wants out for an easier path to gameday success, it only ever makes it more difficult for struggling teams.

Stefano is somewhat the same. Yes he put in 4 years at Tigers but he was signed on the fringe of first grade and missed most of his second season. He signed a 3-year deal and extended it for 2 more, before executing a clause that allowed him to leave early. 2024 was far from his best season and he seemed quite willing to look for the exit. Tigers paid him a lot of money to be a pack leader and he generally failed to maintain that role in the back half of his contract. It is a fact he jettisoned early to join one of the top clubs. We came last 3 of the 4 seasons Stefano was part of the side and he's a key component of that failure, it's not simply on everyone else.

The big deal at the moment in the NRL is unlike the 2000s, we've only had 3 teams win the Grand Final in the past 8 seasons. Obviously Panthers 4 straight which is unheralded in my lifetime. If you extend it to 13 seasons (2012) you only have 6 clubs win, i.e. even over a decade ago it's still the Roosters and Storm winning the Grand Final.

If you go back 22 seasons (since 2002) 11 clubs have won the premiership, but 7 of those clubs only managed it once, Manly managed it twice and the rest are held by just 4 clubs: Roosters (4), Storm (5 - 2 of those cancelled) and Penrith (5).

Even simply contesting the Grand Final, where the biggest clubs can knock each other out of contention, there have only been 8 clubs contest the Grand Final the past 8 years.

Why has the dominance emerged? I think one very big reason is the consolidation of both playing and coaching talent, because, understandably, players will cop a few seasons at a losing club before wanting to join a "successful" one. By definition it's self-fulfilling if the best players all want to play in the best teams, it becomes very much like European football where the same top clubs win every year because they dominate the talent and continued success ensures income.

You're talking about the entire NRL which is irrelevant to the point I'm making.

You probably won't accept it but Tigers do not have the support network to help these guys out. They only see us as a stepping stone to get a shot at NRL. Such thing as loyalty doesn't exist and nor should it. We would dump Pole or Stefano or whoever else if we got a better player. Just ask Fainu and Sullivan who thought they'd get their shot at NRL this year.

Coming back to the support network, I feel sorry for our players. We have such an unproven, inexperienced coaching staff, I would be doubting whether to trust them or not as my mentors.

Going now to recruitment, what we obviously lack is leadership. I hope in the next couple of years, we hire players that Understand that we have a crap coaching staff and want to change things at the club rather than looking to use us as leverage.

 

[jirskyr]

You're talking about the entire NRL which is irrelevant to the point I'm making.

You probably won't accept it but Tigers do not have the support network to help these guys out. They only see us as a stepping stone to get a shot at NRL. Such thing as loyalty doesn't exist and nor should it. We would dump Pole or Stefano or whoever else if we got a better player. Just ask Fainu and Sullivan who thought they'd get their shot at NRL this year.

Coming back to the support network, I feel sorry for our players. We have such an unproven, inexperienced coaching staff, I would be doubting whether to trust them or not as my mentors.

Going now to recruitment, what we obviously lack is leadership. I hope in the next couple of years, we hire players that Understand that we have a crap coaching staff and want to change things at the club rather than looking to use us as leverage.

Tigers are part of the entire NRL. The recruitment issues that affect Tigers affect the other teams similar to us - Dragons, Titans, Warriors etc. Eels appear to be joining us.

I'm not saying I don't understand it, I'm just saying that nobody should be surprised its the same teams contesting the GF every year if nobody wants to play for the teams that don't win. It's self-fulfilling. Only guys like Luai appear to be potential circuit-breakers at struggling clubs.

Cooper Cronk still remains my least favourite of these examples. Had the league at his feet, long-term success at Storm and could have played for any team in Sydney, especially one that needed his leadership, but chose the Roosters. To think Roosters could sign Cronk and Tedesco both for a million bucks in one season.

I'm not going to comment on the leadership or support structures within the club; I won't pretend to know how the organisation is run. BUT I would be surprised if Richo and Benji aren't in fact very good mentors and support to young players, even if Benji isn't a proven head coach, he's a proven footballer and leader at multiple clubs.

 

[BAGNF05]

Luai is a leader

In the penthouse, yes.

What about the shithouse?

 

[Moh]

Haha all the rage when Stef was on his way out, now that he dares to look at offers he has all sorts of holes in his game.

And so they begin to turn.

Anyway, Pole is a beast and has a whole heap of improvement ahead - wherever that may be. Our forward stocks are already terrible, be a great shame to lose him.

 

[tigermate]

Tigers are part of the entire NRL. The recruitment issues that affect Tigers affect the other teams similar to us - Dragons, Titans, Warriors etc. Eels appear to be joining us.

I'm not saying I don't understand it, I'm just saying that nobody should be surprised its the same teams contesting the GF every year if nobody wants to play for the teams that don't win. It's self-fulfilling. Only guys like Luai appear to be potential circuit-breakers at struggling clubs.

Cooper Cronk still remains my least favourite of these examples. Had the league at his feet, long-term success at Storm and could have played for any team in Sydney, especially one that needed his leadership, but chose the Roosters. To think Roosters could sign Cronk and Tedesco both for a million bucks in one season.

I'm not going to comment on the leadership or support structures within the club; I won't pretend to know how the organisation is run. BUT I would be surprised if Richo and Benji aren't in fact very good mentors and support to young players, even if Benji isn't a proven head coach, he's a proven footballer and leader at multiple clubs.

It's a simple equation

Good coach + good admin + good juniors + one big star -- can change a club.

Unfortuntately we dont have a good coach.

Benji is a MASSIVE risk for any player.

IF we had Wayne Bennet -- Steff, Pole, Galvin -- all of them would be begging to stay.

The club has all the characteristics now with Richo as CEO for it to be great.

Benji has had two years of failure.

The players wouldn't be leaving if they believed in him.

Richo is amazing, Luai is amazing (but not there yet), our juniors are amazing -- but our coaching staff is the WEAKEST in the comp -- by a MILE..... not just a small amount.

And I'm sick of hearing all the complaining -- its not fair, the big teams always stay on top etc -- yeah because they're run better.

I can guarantee you that if Richo had got Wayne to us for next year we would be top 8 for the next few years with Luai and a very very good possibility of winning a comp or a few comps.

BUT -- we had Benji promoted, and Richo had just arrived and felt he couldn't sack him yet -- so we miss the coaching window.

Now all the good coaches are taken -- we miss the window.

Sh*t clubs miss their windows.

It's hard to go from the bottom to the top -- but there is a way.

The Panthers, Roosters, Souths -- at one stage were terrible! like terrible. But they got the right pieces in place.

I just think that until we get a great coach -- we are going to suck.

I am just praying that Galvin extends for like 5 years.

That gives us time to find a great coach and have him and Luai as our halves for 5 years.

If we can do that somehow whilst replacing Benji next year with someone -- the next great coach to come up -- then maybe we have a chance.

If not -- we will lose Galvin, who is a generational player - and it will be really hard for us to win a comp if we have to go through another rebuild.

The ONLY good thing for us is that Richo has done it before but even he couldnt convince Steff to stay, or Galvin to extend yet.

It all comes down to Benji.

If we're 2-8 after 10 games next year -- and Galvin goes to November 1 -- we're screwed.

If we're 6-4 -- and Galvin extends -- then we have time to win a comp.

IT"S ALLLLLLLL ON BENJI.

 

[twentyforty]

It's a simple equation

Good coach + good admin + good juniors + one big star -- can change a club.

Unfortuntately we dont have a good coach.

Benji is a MASSIVE risk for any player.

IF we had Wayne Bennet -- Steff, Pole, Galvin -- all of them would be begging to stay.

The club has all the characteristics now with Richo as CEO for it to be great.

Benji has had two years of failure.

The players wouldn't be leaving if they believed in him.

Richo is amazing, Luai is amazing (but not there yet), our juniors are amazing -- but our coaching staff is the WEAKEST in the comp -- by a MILE..... not just a small amount.

And I'm sick of hearing all the complaining -- its not fair, the big teams always stay on top etc -- yeah because they're run better.

I can guarantee you that if Richo had got Wayne to us for next year we would be top 8 for the next few years with Luai and a very very good possibility of winning a comp or a few comps.

BUT -- we had Benji promoted, and Richo had just arrived and felt he couldn't sack him yet -- so we miss the coaching window.

Now all the good coaches are taken -- we miss the window.

Sh*t clubs miss their windows.

It's hard to go from the bottom to the top -- but there is a way.

The Panthers, Roosters, Souths -- at one stage were terrible! like terrible. But they got the right pieces in place.

I just think that until we get a great coach -- we are going to suck.

I am just praying that Galvin extends for like 5 years.

That gives us time to find a great coach and have him and Luai as our halves for 5 years.

If we can do that somehow whilst replacing Benji next year with someone -- the next great coach to come up -- then maybe we have a chance.

If not -- we will lose Galvin, who is a generational player - and it will be really hard for us to win a comp if we have to go through another rebuild.

The ONLY good thing for us is that Richo has done it before but even he couldnt convince Steff to stay, or Galvin to extend yet.

It all comes down to Benji.

If we're 2-8 after 10 games next year -- and Galvin goes to November 1 -- we're screwed.

If we're 6-4 -- and Galvin extends -- then we have time to win a comp.

IT"S ALLLLLLLL ON BENJI.

Good post!
The entire club is responsible for the spoons we’re collecting.
I don’t understand the criticism of players who decide to make the most of their career.
They‘re not leaving us because we’re not winning games, they’re leaving because we’re not winners.

 

[Jolls]

Like @Kelce68 says- don't want to lose Pole, but if we do, it's not the doom of the club we are talking about here.

He's simply the furthest along of the 'promising middles'.

I actually thought he would have a cracking 2024, only to watch him drift in & out of form. He's good at gaining metres, but as we have seen, he's possibly the worst reader of defence of all our middles.

My concerns on Pole are mainly to do with attitude on the field. Same issue I think most had with Utoikamanu- there's no apparent 'need' to excel in the defensive aspect of the game. Seems to love running the ball, but there are 2 sides to this coin.

I do not see how the Klemmer contract is 'killing the club'. We have plenty of cap space, and the 'poor play' of Klemmer is extremely overstated. Added to that- he actually shows a desire to contribute in the defensive aspects of the game.

If the club cannot 'buy' success from outside, then we need 2-3 of the promising guys to develop into regular players. Johannssen looks promising. Sione Fainu obviously. Young Tofaeono looks good. Aho & Miller are rated. Seyfarth is constantly overlooked.

We need players that hold the middle together & capitalise on whatever our upgraded outside backs can offer. Think Canterbury if that is an easy comparison. The Dolphins are my go-to. Not a lot of star power in that squad- but they keep the team in every game.

If Pole is a long term solution- fantastic. If he's not, I don't think it's as bad as we might want to convince ourselves. I fear a long term contract, coupled with no additional development (particularly in defense) is FAR worse than losing him as an incomplete player.

Great analysis, thanks.

 

[Jolls]

I can guarantee you that if Richo had got Wayne to us for next year we would be top 8 for the next few years with Luai and a very very good possibility of winning a comp or a few comps.

Richo was gifted Benji with a contract. Benji is in his "first" contracted year as coach. Between them they claim to have a clear development plan and Richo is on record that he fully supports Benji's plan to grow and develop the club.

Richo was never going to sack Benji in 2024, so any thoughts of signing Bennett, or any other head coach for 2025, is something that should be reserved for Fantasy Footy.

But, for the sake of speculation, let's say Bennett was successful in keeping Stef and ICE. If that was the case we would not have opened the roster postions to make other purchases. We would be entering 2025 with the same pack that led us to the spoon in 2023 and 2024.

I am not for or against Benji at this point. However, I have not seen any evidence to suggest that he can't coach. On the contrary, I have seen several examples that point to him having a bit of an idea.

We demonstrated on several occasions, and for one 80 minute game against Cronulla, that we can defend and attack well. We showed grit and mongrel in the win against Parra, our shape improved significiantly over the course of the season, and Benji called out some "leaders" for underperforming (Klemmer, Bateman and ICE to name a few). Naden was shown the door to Ressies for his inability to control his discipline and AD was "given time off" to rehabilitate after his shocking return from injury. I have yet to be shown one piece of hard evidence that Benji is unable to impart knowledge or ideas. I have yet to hear any leaks from players or staff that indicate that he is doing a shit job. Winning the spoon is an outcome (of several issues); it is not evidence.

What I also saw was a clear lack of depth in our roster, an off season regime that really leaned the team up that was counter-productive, a couple of pea hearts in Stefano and AD (all noise no substance) that simply killed us at times, underperformances against their contract $ from Klemmer and Bateman, a halfback that spent a considerable amount of time suspended and a sook taking his ball and running back home to the UK when he was threatened with going back to Ressies.

FFS, Benji and Richo have invested in buying in depth for KOE, have acknowledged that they stuffed up the pre season and have identified, and blooded, young talent and given them a crack. They were introduced too early for mine; but we have now identified their strenghts and weaknesses that has enabled some astute investement in the roster.

You may see someone who can't coach, I see someone with moral courage. Sure he is inexperienced, but he hasn't shirked away from that; he has openly stated that he is not about results and he is not coaching for employment, he is coaching to rebuild the club; he is not afraid to take some of the blame for poor performances and he praises what he has asked from the players.

What evidence is there anywhere that Wayne Bennett builds clubs? He is a coach that gets the best from individuals in a collective environment. Richo and Benji are the right combo for us at the moment. I would have preferred someone other than Hodgo to bolster the coaching ranks - but he isn't inexperienced. He doesn't have winning runs on the board - but that doesn't mean he hasn't learnt a shit tin that will assist our development.

I'm not expecting miracles in 2025. I am expecting to finish around 12th with a few roster spots opening in 26 that should provide us with a team that can have a crack for the title in 26 and beyond.

You can guarantee all you like that Bennet with Luai would have us top 8 and winning comps; but it is nothing more that speculation and fantasy. The reality is Benji is our coach for 2025 and the roster we field will be 90% of the roster we have now. It may change a little with a contract or two being terminated early to purchase one or two over the off season, but in essence we need more from what we have.

I know it has been years of mismanagement and underperformance; but, like it or not, we are year one into another rebuild. Benji and Richo have a multi year plan mapped out so that is where we are headed no matter what is typed in the Wests Tigers Forum.

Let's see what happens in 2025 instead of calling for the baby to be thrown out with the bathwater.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Richo was gifted Benji with a contract. Benji is in his "first" contracted year as coach. Between them they claim to have a clear development plan and Richo is on record that he fully supports Benji's plan to grow and develop the club.

Richo was never going to sack Benji in 2024, so any thoughts of signing Bennett, or any other head coach for 2025, is something that should be reserved for Fantasy Footy.

But, for the sake of speculation, let's say Bennett was successful in keeping Stef and ICE. If that was the case we would not have opened the roster postions to make other purchases. We would be entering 2025 with the same pack that led us to the spoon in 2023 and 2024.

I am not for or against Benji at this point. However, I have not seen any evidence to suggest that he can't coach. On the contrary, I have seen several examples that point to him having a bit of an idea.

We demonstrated on several occasions, and for one 80 minute game against Cronulla, that we can defend and attack well. We showed grit and mongrel in the win against Parra, our shape improved significiantly over the course of the season, and Benji called out some "leaders" for underperforming (Klemmer, Bateman and ICE to name a few). Naden was shown the door to Ressies for his inability to control his discipline and AD was "given time off" to rehabilitate after his shocking return from injury. I have yet to be shown one piece of hard evidence that Benji is unable to impart knowledge or ideas. I have yet to hear any leaks from players or staff that indicate that he is doing a shit job. Winning the spoon is an outcome (of several issues); it is not evidence.

What I also saw was a clear lack of depth in our roster, an off season regime that really leaned the team up that was counter-productive, a couple of pea hearts in Stefano and AD (all noise no substance) that simply killed us at times, underperformances against their contract $ from Klemmer and Bateman, a halfback that spent a considerable amount of time suspended and a sook taking his ball and running back home to the UK when he was threatened with going back to Ressies.

FFS, Benji and Richo have invested in buying in depth for KOE, have acknowledged that they stuffed up the pre season and have identified, and blooded, young talent and given them a crack. They were introduced too early for mine; but we have now identified their strenghts and weaknesses that has enabled some astute investement in the roster.

You may see someone who can't coach, I see someone with moral courage. Sure he is inexperienced, but he hasn't shirked away from that; he has openly stated that he is not about results and he is not coaching for employment, he is coaching to rebuild the club; he is not afraid to take some of the blame for poor performances and he praises what he has asked from the players.

What evidence is there anywhere that Wayne Bennett builds clubs? He is a coach that gets the best from individuals in a collective environment. Richo and Benji are the right combo for us at the moment. I would have preferred someone other than Hodgo to bolster the coaching ranks - but he isn't inexperienced. He doesn't have winning runs on the board - but that doesn't mean he hasn't learnt a shit tin that will assist our development.

I'm not expecting miracles in 2025. I am expecting to finish around 12th with a few roster spots opening in 26 that should provide us with a team that can have a crack for the title in 26 and beyond.

You can guarantee all you like that Bennet with Luai would have us top 8 and winning comps; but it is nothing more that speculation and fantasy. The reality is Benji is our coach for 2025 and the roster we field will be 90% of the roster we have now. It may change a little with a contract or two being terminated early to purchase one or two over the off season, but in essence we need more from what we have.

I know it has been years of mismanagement and underperformance; but, like it or not, we are year one into another rebuild. Benji and Richo have a multi year plan mapped out so that is where we are headed no matter what is typed in the Wests Tigers Forum.

Let's see what happens in 2025 instead of calling for the baby to be thrown out with the bathwater.

A great summary of where we are at; and an objective view of where we are headed

 

[jirskyr]

It's a simple equation

Good coach + good admin + good juniors + one big star -- can change a club.

Unfortuntately we dont have a good coach.

Benji is a MASSIVE risk for any player.

IF we had Wayne Bennet -- Steff, Pole, Galvin -- all of them would be begging to stay.
I can guarantee you that if Richo had got Wayne to us for next year we would be top 8 for the next few years with Luai and a very very good possibility of winning a comp or a few comps.

Sorry but you can't guarantee anything like that. I wouldn't turn down Wayne Bennett but let us not forget he has failed to make the Top 8 the past two years with the Dolphins - that would indicate guarantees are unlikely.

I understand you want a good or top coach, me too, but how many of those realistically are there? How many truly club-changing coaches in the NRL can turn your experienced Admin and some good signings into sustained success?

There are maybe 4 you could hope on: Bellyache, Bennett, Robinson and Cleary. But even Cleary was middle-ground for most of his coaching career, until he hit a jackpot at Penrith with his son; all that recent success depends entirely on Nathan Cleary being a generational halfback talent, as opposed to Jarrad Anderson, Jake Arthur, Billy Walters, Kyle Flanagan, Scott Fulton etc. Trent Robinson never coached outside of the Roosters system he was gifted.

Respect to Bennett for plying his hand at different clubs, but I can only read your argument as being "if only we got Bennett instead of Benji we'd be cooking", as if that was an option, or as if we could pry a top-tier coach from one of the successful clubs.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Thank you for a great summary of where we are at; without all the doomsdayers BS.
Blaming anyone or everyone imaginative who may be at fault. From top to bottom.
So much negativity with no realistic solutions or directions, just rehashing the same old,
same old, over and over again. Tiresome to say the least!
An objective and realistic view of where we are aiming to be. There is no magic bullet. But I do think we are in a better place now to progress upwards.
A very refreshing read.

 

[tigermate]

Sorry but you can't guarantee anything like that. I wouldn't turn down Wayne Bennett but let us not forget he has failed to make the Top 8 the past two years with the Dolphins - that would indicate guarantees are unlikely.

I understand you want a good or top coach, me too, but how many of those realistically are there? How many truly club-changing coaches in the NRL can turn your experienced Admin and some good signings into sustained success?

There are maybe 4 you could hope on: Bellyache, Bennett, Robinson and Cleary. But even Cleary was middle-ground for most of his coaching career, until he hit a jackpot at Penrith with his son; all that recent success depends entirely on Nathan Cleary being a generational halfback talent, as opposed to Jarrad Anderson, Jake Arthur, Billy Walters, Kyle Flanagan, Scott Fulton etc. Trent Robinson never coached outside of the Roosters system he was gifted.

Respect to Bennett for plying his hand at different clubs, but I can only read your argument as being "if only we got Bennett instead of Benji we'd be cooking", as if that was an option, or as if we could pry a top-tier coach from one of the successful clubs.

Wayne Bennet with luai - and if Steff stayed - would’ve drawn more top tier players to our club - than where we are now for next year.

The question was - how can bottom clubs get off the bottom.

My answer was taking advantage of windows.

Wayne was a window.

He’s gone - totally agree with you on that.

I’m making my own predictions obviously which you may not agree with.

It doesn’t take much to get to the top.

Let’s say Wayne came and we had luai - we might’ve drawn another superstar - like kotoni staggs, etc

Our squad is missing like two other rep players - it’s not much … but if we lose more juniors like galvin it’ll take years to get them back.

My point is - we are so close to being great but also so close to remaining in the bottom.

Flanno, Des, Wayne etc were all available and we went with sheens benji.

I think they all do better with our current crop but just my opinion

 

[Needaname]

Richo was gifted Benji with a contract. Benji is in his "first" contracted year as coach. Between them they claim to have a clear development plan and Richo is on record that he fully supports Benji's plan to grow and develop the club.

Richo was never going to sack Benji in 2024, so any thoughts of signing Bennett, or any other head coach for 2025, is something that should be reserved for Fantasy Footy.

But, for the sake of speculation, let's say Bennett was successful in keeping Stef and ICE. If that was the case we would not have opened the roster postions to make other purchases. We would be entering 2025 with the same pack that led us to the spoon in 2023 and 2024.

I am not for or against Benji at this point. However, I have not seen any evidence to suggest that he can't coach. On the contrary, I have seen several examples that point to him having a bit of an idea.

We demonstrated on several occasions, and for one 80 minute game against Cronulla, that we can defend and attack well. We showed grit and mongrel in the win against Parra, our shape improved significiantly over the course of the season, and Benji called out some "leaders" for underperforming (Klemmer, Bateman and ICE to name a few). Naden was shown the door to Ressies for his inability to control his discipline and AD was "given time off" to rehabilitate after his shocking return from injury. I have yet to be shown one piece of hard evidence that Benji is unable to impart knowledge or ideas. I have yet to hear any leaks from players or staff that indicate that he is doing a shit job. Winning the spoon is an outcome (of several issues); it is not evidence.

What I also saw was a clear lack of depth in our roster, an off season regime that really leaned the team up that was counter-productive, a couple of pea hearts in Stefano and AD (all noise no substance) that simply killed us at times, underperformances against their contract $ from Klemmer and Bateman, a halfback that spent a considerable amount of time suspended and a sook taking his ball and running back home to the UK when he was threatened with going back to Ressies.

FFS, Benji and Richo have invested in buying in depth for KOE, have acknowledged that they stuffed up the pre season and have identified, and blooded, young talent and given them a crack. They were introduced too early for mine; but we have now identified their strenghts and weaknesses that has enabled some astute investement in the roster.

You may see someone who can't coach, I see someone with moral courage. Sure he is inexperienced, but he hasn't shirked away from that; he has openly stated that he is not about results and he is not coaching for employment, he is coaching to rebuild the club; he is not afraid to take some of the blame for poor performances and he praises what he has asked from the players.

What evidence is there anywhere that Wayne Bennett builds clubs? He is a coach that gets the best from individuals in a collective environment. Richo and Benji are the right combo for us at the moment. I would have preferred someone other than Hodgo to bolster the coaching ranks - but he isn't inexperienced. He doesn't have winning runs on the board - but that doesn't mean he hasn't learnt a shit tin that will assist our development.

I'm not expecting miracles in 2025. I am expecting to finish around 12th with a few roster spots opening in 26 that should provide us with a team that can have a crack for the title in 26 and beyond.

You can guarantee all you like that Bennet with Luai would have us top 8 and winning comps; but it is nothing more that speculation and fantasy. The reality is Benji is our coach for 2025 and the roster we field will be 90% of the roster we have now. It may change a little with a contract or two being terminated early to purchase one or two over the off season, but in essence we need more from what we have.

I know it has been years of mismanagement and underperformance; but, like it or not, we are year one into another rebuild. Benji and Richo have a multi year plan mapped out so that is where we are headed no matter what is typed in the Wests Tigers Forum.

Let's see what happens in 2025 instead of calling for the baby to be thrown out with the bathwater.

There is something in our last season. There was a plan. Richo speaks of round 7 being the turning point. I don’t think we got the preseason wrong. I think Benji and Richo worked with what they had. All preseason into the first round of games the common rhetoric was that ‘he is a good trainer’ train well you deserve a spot. Now that doesn’t necessarily apply to when taking the field. Some great trainers are just poor options in the real thing. Maybe the first 7 rounds was decided as to how Benji can really evaluate the effects of the preseason. Who has it, who doesn’t, who is interested, who is not, who is retainable, who is replaceable.
We go into 2025 with a spine that is 80% settled. A new motivated backline and half a forward pack that held their own all last year.
If there is no top end turn over, over the next few months I can see a much more consistent year coming.

 

[tigermate]

Richo was gifted Benji with a contract. Benji is in his "first" contracted year as coach. Between them they claim to have a clear development plan and Richo is on record that he fully supports Benji's plan to grow and develop the club.

Richo was never going to sack Benji in 2024, so any thoughts of signing Bennett, or any other head coach for 2025, is something that should be reserved for Fantasy Footy.

But, for the sake of speculation, let's say Bennett was successful in keeping Stef and ICE. If that was the case we would not have opened the roster postions to make other purchases. We would be entering 2025 with the same pack that led us to the spoon in 2023 and 2024.

I am not for or against Benji at this point. However, I have not seen any evidence to suggest that he can't coach. On the contrary, I have seen several examples that point to him having a bit of an idea.

We demonstrated on several occasions, and for one 80 minute game against Cronulla, that we can defend and attack well. We showed grit and mongrel in the win against Parra, our shape improved significiantly over the course of the season, and Benji called out some "leaders" for underperforming (Klemmer, Bateman and ICE to name a few). Naden was shown the door to Ressies for his inability to control his discipline and AD was "given time off" to rehabilitate after his shocking return from injury. I have yet to be shown one piece of hard evidence that Benji is unable to impart knowledge or ideas. I have yet to hear any leaks from players or staff that indicate that he is doing a shit job. Winning the spoon is an outcome (of several issues); it is not evidence.

What I also saw was a clear lack of depth in our roster, an off season regime that really leaned the team up that was counter-productive, a couple of pea hearts in Stefano and AD (all noise no substance) that simply killed us at times, underperformances against their contract $ from Klemmer and Bateman, a halfback that spent a considerable amount of time suspended and a sook taking his ball and running back home to the UK when he was threatened with going back to Ressies.

FFS, Benji and Richo have invested in buying in depth for KOE, have acknowledged that they stuffed up the pre season and have identified, and blooded, young talent and given them a crack. They were introduced too early for mine; but we have now identified their strenghts and weaknesses that has enabled some astute investement in the roster.

You may see someone who can't coach, I see someone with moral courage. Sure he is inexperienced, but he hasn't shirked away from that; he has openly stated that he is not about results and he is not coaching for employment, he is coaching to rebuild the club; he is not afraid to take some of the blame for poor performances and he praises what he has asked from the players.

What evidence is there anywhere that Wayne Bennett builds clubs? He is a coach that gets the best from individuals in a collective environment. Richo and Benji are the right combo for us at the moment. I would have preferred someone other than Hodgo to bolster the coaching ranks - but he isn't inexperienced. He doesn't have winning runs on the board - but that doesn't mean he hasn't learnt a shit tin that will assist our development.

I'm not expecting miracles in 2025. I am expecting to finish around 12th with a few roster spots opening in 26 that should provide us with a team that can have a crack for the title in 26 and beyond.

You can guarantee all you like that Bennet with Luai would have us top 8 and winning comps; but it is nothing more that speculation and fantasy. The reality is Benji is our coach for 2025 and the roster we field will be 90% of the roster we have now. It may change a little with a contract or two being terminated early to purchase one or two over the off season, but in essence we need more from what we have.

I know it has been years of mismanagement and underperformance; but, like it or not, we are year one into another rebuild. Benji and Richo have a multi year plan mapped out so that is where we are headed no matter what is typed in the Wests Tigers Forum.

Let's see what happens in 2025 instead of calling for the baby to be thrown out with the bathwater.

Lol

Did you watch all the press conferences with Benji

On probably 4 occasions “I’m a rookie coach, it was my fault for telling them to play eyes up, I’m learning in the job” yada yada

How many other coaches say that?

To this date Benji can’t coach bc he’s not proven that he can.

Richo can’t bag him - agree.

“We have a plan” - yeah I’ve heard it 100 times. Because what else can they say?

It doesn’t mean anything

 

[WestsEffTheRest]

Lol

Did you watch all the press conferences with Benji

On probably 4 occasions “I’m a rookie coach, it was my fault for telling them to play eyes up, I’m learning in the job” yada yada

How many other coaches say that?

To this date Benji can’t coach bc he’s not proven that he can.

Richo can’t bag him - agree.

“We have a plan” - yeah I’ve heard it 100 times. Because what else can they say?

It doesn’t mean anything

Why have you overrun every single thread with Benji bashing? We get it you don't like the bloke but the constant narrative around it is weird.

 

[tigermate]

Why have you overrun every single thread with Benji bashing? We get it you don't like the bloke but the constant narrative around it is weird.

Fair. I’ll stop.

 

[BAGNF05]

Lol

Did you watch all the press conferences with Benji

On probably 4 occasions “I’m a rookie coach, it was my fault for telling them to play eyes up, I’m learning in the job” yada yada

How many other coaches say that?

To this date Benji can’t coach bc he’s not proven that he can.

Richo can’t bag him - agree.

“We have a plan” - yeah I’ve heard it 100 times. Because what else can they say?

It doesn’t mean anything

It’s good coaching to own the poor performances in front of the media.

Calling out your young/learning players publicly would be idiotic.

 

[Jolls]

Lol

Did you watch all the press conferences with Benji

On probably 4 occasions “I’m a rookie coach, it was my fault for telling them to play eyes up, I’m learning in the job” yada yada

How many other coaches say that?

To this date Benji can’t coach bc he’s not proven that he can.

Richo can’t bag him - agree.

“We have a plan” - yeah I’ve heard it 100 times. Because what else can they say?

It doesn’t mean anything

OK, I'm not saying he can or can't coach at the moment. What I said, if you read back, is that I don't see any evidence that he can't. I have seen some evidence that suggests that he has some skills.

He can't coach because he hasn't proven that he can isn't evidence its opinion.

As for admitting he is a rookie and makes mistakes; that can't be said by other coaches because they aren't rookies. He's had a season to learn the ropes so that excuse falls short going forward.

Show me anyone at the club who has indicated that he can't coach - player, manager or official.
Has anyone but a disgruntled old head playing well beneath their contract price (Bateman) said anything negative about his ability as a coach? And that reflects him calling on expereinced palyers to pull their wight - and so they should!

Did our attack improve over last season? Yes, and this is supported by stats.
Was our Defence shit? Yes, and we have the youngest roster in the NRL (lacks strength and experience) combined with leaning out the team during the pre season. Coach, players or performance team to blame?

As with most that are calling out Benji there is no evidencec to support the claim that he can't coach.

Personally I'm on the fence and am prepared to give him some time. There is evidence to suggest that he has a clue - not that he is a great coach. He had a shit roster with no depth, 2025 is a less shit roster with a bit of depth. So, if you read above I expect him to get us to around 12th. We won't see real progress until 2026 unless we jag a couple of quality pigs over the off season.

I'm keen to see the evidence - I have asked on several occasions for those making the claim to put it forward. Nothing but crickets so far.

 

[Jolls]

There is something in our last season. There was a plan. Richo speaks of round 7 being the turning point. I don’t think we got the preseason wrong. I think Benji and Richo worked with what they had. All preseason into the first round of games the common rhetoric was that ‘he is a good trainer’ train well you deserve a spot. Now that doesn’t necessarily apply to when taking the field. Some great trainers are just poor options in the real thing. Maybe the first 7 rounds was decided as to how Benji can really evaluate the effects of the preseason. Who has it, who doesn’t, who is interested, who is not, who is retainable, who is replaceable.
We go into 2025 with a spine that is 80% settled. A new motivated backline and half a forward pack that held their own all last year.
If there is no top end turn over, over the next few months I can see a much more consistent year coming.

I agree that they worked with what they had - but you only have to look at how lean Klemmer and Seyfarth are to see that there was a big difference I initially thoought that they had trained the hosue down and would be better for it - but it was clear that we lost too much and couldn't win the collision for the most part or win the ruck because of it.

I also see a much more consistent year ahead (though wood) but would still like to see a couple of additional signings for the pigs before we kick off.

 

[bptiger 0]

It's a simple equation

Good coach + good admin + good juniors + one big star -- can change a club.

Unfortuntately we dont have a good coach.

Benji is a MASSIVE risk for any player.

IF we had Wayne Bennet -- Steff, Pole, Galvin -- all of them would be begging to stay.

The club has all the characteristics now with Richo as CEO for it to be great.

Benji has had two years of failure.

The players wouldn't be leaving if they believed in him.

Richo is amazing, Luai is amazing (but not there yet), our juniors are amazing -- but our coaching staff is the WEAKEST in the comp -- by a MILE..... not just a small amount.

And I'm sick of hearing all the complaining -- its not fair, the big teams always stay on top etc -- yeah because they're run better.

I can guarantee you that if Richo had got Wayne to us for next year we would be top 8 for the next few years with Luai and a very very good possibility of winning a comp or a few comps.

BUT -- we had Benji promoted, and Richo had just arrived and felt he couldn't sack him yet -- so we miss the coaching window.

Now all the good coaches are taken -- we miss the window.

Sh*t clubs miss their windows.

It's hard to go from the bottom to the top -- but there is a way.

The Panthers, Roosters, Souths -- at one stage were terrible! like terrible. But they got the right pieces in place.

I just think that until we get a great coach -- we are going to suck.

I am just praying that Galvin extends for like 5 years.

That gives us time to find a great coach and have him and Luai as our halves for 5 years.

If we can do that somehow whilst replacing Benji next year with someone -- the next great coach to come up -- then maybe we have a chance.

If not -- we will lose Galvin, who is a generational player - and it will be really hard for us to win a comp if we have to go through another rebuild.

The ONLY good thing for us is that Richo has done it before but even he couldnt convince Steff to stay, or Galvin to extend yet.

It all comes down to Benji.

If we're 2-8 after 10 games next year -- and Galvin goes to November 1 -- we're screwed.

If we're 6-4 -- and Galvin extends -- then we have time to win a comp.

IT"S ALLLLLLLL ON BENJI.

There’s one part of ur post that is so true , if we had signed Bennett as coach, every thing would have fallen into place , stepho and papa would have stayed , Galvin would have signed a new contract , they say things start in the front office , BENNETT is the front office , so we are left rolling the dice untill we sack benji and look for another crap coach to take over