2025 Defence

Tigerwould

Tigerwould

Well-known member
In season 2024 the WTs conceded 750 points (with worst in the league) Parra second worst with 716.
Yes 2024 was a development year for the club. Commentators said we fielded the youngest side in NRL history at one stage half way through the season, then beat that by fielding an even younger side later in the season. I’m not sure if its a record or not with the amount of players that made there NRL debuts..but it would have to be there.

The SMH said few weeks ago, “the Wests Tigers made their 51st roster move since the start of the 2023 pre-season when they landed Terrell May.”
Since then we have had two more roster moves. So it can’t be understated to call 2024 a “Development Year”.
The recruitment has been very good for 2025 with at least 4-5 of the incoming players most likely to start in the 2025 run on side.
With two of our better defenders leaving (I’Pap and Bateman) and a couple of positions still up for grabs. Whoever takes these positions needs to be defensively strong players.
If we are to move from a bottom four team to mid table team…we can’t be anywhere near the bottom again for points conceded.
 
This is the main area where we need to improve (obvious to us all)
Tigerwould said:
In season 2024 the WTs conceded 750 points (with worst in the league) Parra second worst with 716.
Yes 2024 was a development year for the club. Commentators said we fielded the youngest side in NRL history at one stage half way through the season, then beat that by fielding an even younger side later in the season. I’m not sure if its a record or not with the amount of players that made there NRL debuts..but it would have to be there.

The SMH said few weeks ago, “the Wests Tigers made their 51st roster move since the start of the 2023 pre-season when they landed Terrell May.”
Since then we have had two more roster moves. So it can’t be understated to call 2024 a “Development Year”.
The recruitment has been very good for 2025 with at least 4-5 of the incoming players most likely to start in the 2025 run on side.
With two of our better defenders leaving (I’Pap and Bateman) and a couple of positions still up for grabs. Whoever takes these positions needs to be defensively strong players.
If we are to move from a bottom four team to mid table team…we can’t be anywhere near the bottom again for points conceded. let's hope this has been identified and rectified by our coaching squad.Getting our fitness levels higher and improving our discipline would help massively in doing that.Doing both of those things should also help with our penalty count as it should reduce reasons to be penalised out of games
Click to expand...
 
long post alert.

beyond conditioning and off-field instability, defence has been this club's single biggest issue. it's not really a surprise that our most successful years were built on having decent structures.

the beginning of this year we looked as if we'd finally managed to turn a corner before we completely fell off, which I attribute to a lack of cohesion (injuries and roster turnover) and attitude. it's not a coincidence that once Richardson and Marshall started tapping players on the shoulder that the willingness died. I don't think that's necessarily a knock on Morris, but the blowtorch will be applied if we still can't sort ourselves out with all these quality players next year.

Richardson's said a couple of times that we needed to sign defenders in this recruitment window, but the problem is that we still need more. Bateman and Papali'i have always been strong defenders, they're both now gone.

in their place is Samuela, who for all his attacking brilliance, had the most try causes in the league amongst backrowers. I'm sure Luai will help him in terms of communication, but in terms of reads and contact I'm concerned. Seyfarth is a good defender in the sense of his linespeed and contact, but in terms of making reads and marshalling an edge? the jury's out. a lot of work to be done there.

through the middle, we lucked out on Terrell May, who has the third highest tackle efficiency percentage in the league. he doesn't miss tackles. Twal and Klemmer are always solid, but there's a worry with Bird and Pole. both are competitors, but neither inspire me defensively. Api was falling off tackles almost exclusively come the back end of the year as well, but hopefully Marshall's learnt his lesson and runs with Tallyn on the pine. all of this makes me think we're still in for Kobe Hetherington.

as for the outside backs, it looks as if To'a and Olam will be our centres, both of whom get a pass mark, providing Star isn't constantly going for legs tackles like he was last year. Skelton makes great contact but his issue is making reads, whereas on the left Turuva has always had question marks defensively in all facets.

all in all I think we've probably gone backwards in terms of defensive aptitude, but that can all change if players buy in. a committed player will make good contact and wrestle on the ground. they'll also scramble. if the boys are willing, that can go a long way towards fixing a lot of issues.
 
jrtiger said:
long post alert.

beyond conditioning and off-field instability, defence has been this club's single biggest issue. it's not really a surprise that our most successful years were built on having decent structures.

the beginning of this year we looked as if we'd finally managed to turn a corner before we completely fell off, which I attribute to a lack of cohesion (injuries and roster turnover) and attitude. it's not a coincidence that once Richardson and Marshall started tapping players on the shoulder that the willingness died. I don't think that's necessarily a knock on Morris, but the blowtorch will be applied if we still can't sort ourselves out with all these quality players next year.

Richardson's said a couple of times that we needed to sign defenders in this recruitment window, but the problem is that we still need more. Bateman and Papali'i have always been strong defenders, they're both now gone.

in their place is Samuela, who for all his attacking brilliance, had the most try causes in the league amongst backrowers. I'm sure Luai will help him in terms of communication, but in terms of reads and contact I'm concerned. Seyfarth is a good defender in the sense of his linespeed and contact, but in terms of making reads and marshalling an edge? the jury's out. a lot of work to be done there.

through the middle, we lucked out on Terrell May, who has the third highest tackle efficiency percentage in the league. he doesn't miss tackles. Twal and Klemmer are always solid, but there's a worry with Bird and Pole. both are competitors, but neither inspire me defensively. Api was falling off tackles almost exclusively come the back end of the year as well, but hopefully Marshall's learnt his lesson and runs with Tallyn on the pine. all of this makes me think we're still in for Kobe Hetherington.

as for the outside backs, it looks as if To'a and Olam will be our centres, both of whom get a pass mark, providing Star isn't constantly going for legs tackles like he was last year. Skelton makes great contact but his issue is making reads, whereas on the left Turuva has always had question marks defensively in all facets.

all in all I think we've probably gone backwards in terms of defensive aptitude, but that can all change if players buy in. a committed player will make good contact and wrestle on the ground. they'll also scramble. if the boys are willing, that can go a long way towards fixing a lot of issues.
Click to expand...
Love a long analytical post. I agree with much of what you've written and particularly your summary at the end. I disagree that our defence looked improved at the start of the year. It was on par with the start of the previous year and the year before that. All lowly ranked teams fall away due to the reasons you've outlined (injuries/poor depth and cohesion and reduced moral). As such i think last year was simply more of the same.

I didn't rate Sam's defence but didn't know that try cause stat you pointed out. This is a huge concern given he is our only notable edge forward. Natural progression and an experienced voice can hopefully see him improve.

I actually hope we don't chase Hetherington (at least on any long term deal). I agree he will immediately improve our team, particularly defensively, but i don't believe his ceiling is particularly high as a player. I wouldn't have him in the top dozen or so locks in the game and don't see him ever getting there. I think it would leave us a long way behind many teams in a key position. I understand there is nothing on the market currently but i'd rather keep the powder dry and be patient in search for a better option.

My biggest concern is it is hard to see where a dramatic defensive improvement will come from. Natural progression from younger blokes is the biggest hope and if we can win some games the buy in from a few older heads such as Klemmer should help a little also. If we can learn some discipline and keep 13 on the field every game that will improve things to. The question is can all these little things add up to a big improvement?
 
jrtiger said:
long post alert.

beyond conditioning and off-field instability, defence has been this club's single biggest issue. it's not really a surprise that our most successful years were built on having decent structures.

the beginning of this year we looked as if we'd finally managed to turn a corner before we completely fell off, which I attribute to a lack of cohesion (injuries and roster turnover) and attitude. it's not a coincidence that once Richardson and Marshall started tapping players on the shoulder that the willingness died. I don't think that's necessarily a knock on Morris, but the blowtorch will be applied if we still can't sort ourselves out with all these quality players next year.

Richardson's said a couple of times that we needed to sign defenders in this recruitment window, but the problem is that we still need more. Bateman and Papali'i have always been strong defenders, they're both now gone.

in their place is Samuela, who for all his attacking brilliance, had the most try causes in the league amongst backrowers. I'm sure Luai will help him in terms of communication, but in terms of reads and contact I'm concerned. Seyfarth is a good defender in the sense of his linespeed and contact, but in terms of making reads and marshalling an edge? the jury's out. a lot of work to be done there.

through the middle, we lucked out on Terrell May, who has the third highest tackle efficiency percentage in the league. he doesn't miss tackles. Twal and Klemmer are always solid, but there's a worry with Bird and Pole. both are competitors, but neither inspire me defensively. Api was falling off tackles almost exclusively come the back end of the year as well, but hopefully Marshall's learnt his lesson and runs with Tallyn on the pine. all of this makes me think we're still in for Kobe Hetherington.

as for the outside backs, it looks as if To'a and Olam will be our centres, both of whom get a pass mark, providing Star isn't constantly going for legs tackles like he was last year. Skelton makes great contact but his issue is making reads, whereas on the left Turuva has always had question marks defensively in all facets.

all in all I think we've probably gone backwards in terms of defensive aptitude, but that can all change if players buy in. a committed player will make good contact and wrestle on the ground. they'll also scramble. if the boys are willing, that can go a long way towards fixing a lot of issues.
Click to expand...

If our discipline improves on the field it should lead to less lopsided penalty counts against us (Vlandys terrible 6 again rule) which will also reduce our defensive workload (in theory).
 
jrtiger said:
long post alert.

beyond conditioning and off-field instability, defence has been this club's single biggest issue. it's not really a surprise that our most successful years were built on having decent structures.

the beginning of this year we looked as if we'd finally managed to turn a corner before we completely fell off, which I attribute to a lack of cohesion (injuries and roster turnover) and attitude. it's not a coincidence that once Richardson and Marshall started tapping players on the shoulder that the willingness died. I don't think that's necessarily a knock on Morris, but the blowtorch will be applied if we still can't sort ourselves out with all these quality players next year.

Richardson's said a couple of times that we needed to sign defenders in this recruitment window, but the problem is that we still need more. Bateman and Papali'i have always been strong defenders, they're both now gone.

in their place is Samuela, who for all his attacking brilliance, had the most try causes in the league amongst backrowers. I'm sure Luai will help him in terms of communication, but in terms of reads and contact I'm concerned. Seyfarth is a good defender in the sense of his linespeed and contact, but in terms of making reads and marshalling an edge? the jury's out. a lot of work to be done there.

through the middle, we lucked out on Terrell May, who has the third highest tackle efficiency percentage in the league. he doesn't miss tackles. Twal and Klemmer are always solid, but there's a worry with Bird and Pole. both are competitors, but neither inspire me defensively. Api was falling off tackles almost exclusively come the back end of the year as well, but hopefully Marshall's learnt his lesson and runs with Tallyn on the pine. all of this makes me think we're still in for Kobe Hetherington.

as for the outside backs, it looks as if To'a and Olam will be our centres, both of whom get a pass mark, providing Star isn't constantly going for legs tackles like he was last year. Skelton makes great contact but his issue is making reads, whereas on the left Turuva has always had question marks defensively in all facets.

all in all I think we've probably gone backwards in terms of defensive aptitude, but that can all change if players buy in. a committed player will make good contact and wrestle on the ground. they'll also scramble. if the boys are willing, that can go a long way towards fixing a lot of issues.
Click to expand...
IMO one of the few decent backrowers off contract for 2026 able to be signed now is Ethan Bullemor.

Would greatly help our edge defence and brings impact, effort & leg speed. Otherson here have mentioned him previously but problem is he’s managed by Moses.

Wouldn’t cost much past $450k & we’d be able to offer better terms & opportunity than Manly.
 
Poor Discipline is a result of being unable to compete at the ruck.... We can't put the ball carrier on the deck, we cannot limit PCMs, offloads etc which always sees us on the back foot, struggling to stem momentum against us.
It all starts at the ruck and. If we can occasionally limit them crossing the ad line far our defensive line isn't taxes and fatigued as much.
It's our biggest issue
 
One thing I noticed over the last season or 2 is we often beat teams in the stats in terms of possession and opportunity in the red zone, but could never convert it to points.

May and Hunt are far better than what we have had and should get us moving forward in attack. Defensively, they are a lot more aggressive too.

Wing metres to start our sets has also been an issue. Skelton and Turuva should solve that to a degree.

Luai and Galvin will have more to play off than last year.

Api off the back of our props may end up having a massive season as will TDS if he gets game time. TDS and Api both open up defenses around the ruck.

If we can add another player that will contribute to fixing our weaknesses in the 2nd row, we should have a strong enough team to push for the 8. After that it's attitude and game plan.

Luai can manage a game plan. He has played in a system that encourages patience and trust in the process. I feel we are ok for 20 minutes a game, then start playing risky footy and making silly errors. Luai should fix that.

The guys in key positions are very good. Question marks on Bula, but we'll see how he goes.

When all is said and done, this team would put last years team to shame, so pretty happy with the transformation.
 
How did we go in defence when we had 13 on the paddock vis a vis 12?

Does anybody have stats comparing our defence with 13 on field in comparison to other clubs with 13 on field?

Seems sin bins and send offs best place to start in looking for a fix.
 
gregjm87 said:
Love a long analytical post. I agree with much of what you've written and particularly your summary at the end. I disagree that our defence looked improved at the start of the year. It was on par with the start of the previous year and the year before that. All lowly ranked teams fall away due to the reasons you've outlined (injuries/poor depth and cohesion and reduced moral). As such i think last year was simply more of the same.

I didn't rate Sam's defence but didn't know that try cause stat you pointed out. This is a huge concern given he is our only notable edge forward. Natural progression and an experienced voice can hopefully see him improve.

I actually hope we don't chase Hetherington (at least on any long term deal). I agree he will immediately improve our team, particularly defensively, but i don't believe his ceiling is particularly high as a player. I wouldn't have him in the top dozen or so locks in the game and don't see him ever getting there. I think it would leave us a long way behind many teams in a key position. I understand there is nothing on the market currently but i'd rather keep the powder dry and be patient in search for a better option.

My biggest concern is it is hard to see where a dramatic defensive improvement will come from. Natural progression from younger blokes is the biggest hope and if we can win some games the buy in from a few older heads such as Klemmer should help a little also. If we can learn some discipline and keep 13 on the field every game that will improve things to. The question is can all these little things add up to a big improvement?
Click to expand...
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Wests Tigers side repel Parramatta and Cronulla the way they did in those early rounds. it was immense. it dropped off from there for a number of reasons, but again it’s crazy to think about looking back.

it’s a fair school of thought on Hetherington. I think he has a lot to give defensively but his attacking skillset leaves a lot to be desired. that said, there’s still interest from WT. time will tell.

Morris has a lot of work to do this off season. based on the reports from a few guys that have gone to training there’s a lot more yet to be done.
 
BlackWhiteGold said:
IMO one of the few decent backrowers off contract for 2026 able to be signed now is Ethan Bullemor.

Would greatly help our edge defence and brings impact, effort & leg speed. Otherson here have mentioned him previously but problem is he’s managed by Moses.

Wouldn’t cost much past $450k & we’d be able to offer better terms & opportunity than Manly.
Click to expand...
Ethan Bullemor -------25yrs in 2026, off contract 2026, 190cm, 110kg from Emerald QLD.
 
A lot of things influence the points against column in a game. Obviously the actual effectiveness and tackling technique of individuals is key, however other factors such as discipline with and without the ball, kicking game, kick chase, wrestle & ruck, marker D, communication, line speed, game plan, quality of attack etc are all important. We need to improve all of these areas of our game as well as our individual D technique in order for there to be an overall improvement in the points we let in.
A lot of these will improve with attitude and leadership on field also the skill and talent levels added with recruitment.
 
I think we might find ourselves getting penalised less this year and more rub of green

Luai v Cleary

Would be the best possible lead up to a grand final this year. Lots of $$$ for NRL
 
jrtiger said:
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Wests Tigers side repel Parramatta and Cronulla the way they did in those early rounds. it was immense. it dropped off from there for a number of reasons, but again it’s crazy to think about looking back.

it’s a fair school of thought on Hetherington. I think he has a lot to give defensively but his attacking skillset leaves a lot to be desired. that said, there’s still interest from WT. time will tell.

Morris has a lot of work to do this off season. based on the reports from a few guys that have gone to training there’s a lot more yet to be done.
Click to expand...
I dont think Tigers repelled Sharks at all. The Sharks were just awful that game in my opinion. The eels game i don't recall to well to be honest but looking at the stats 31 missed, 23 ineffective tackles isn't good reading.
 
The scoreboard is the telling factor in defense.
Attacking teams who score immediately place pressure on the opposition.
And so it goes.
Looking back (just last season as an example) we had heaps of games where we had great attacking positions but could not ice the points.
The new players we have on the park in '25 give us a different game-plan, the attack will surely score more, and the defense will magically appear better.
 
tiger_one said:
The scoreboard is the telling factor in defense.
Attacking teams who score immediately place pressure on the opposition.
And so it goes.
Looking back (just last season as an example) we had heaps of games where we had great attacking positions but could not ice the points.
The new players we have on the park in '25 give us a different game-plan, the attack will surely score more, and the defense will magically appear better.
Click to expand...

The game has become much higher scoring laterly, especially during the second half of last season.

It will be interesting if trend continues.

Your right, it's been a while since our side taxed the opposition in defence.
 
The 2 biggest factors in our defence in 2024 were injuries in the backline and sinbins. Your backs all going well should play 80 minutes but we lost backs to injury mid game in 16 of 24 games (we won 5 of the other 8). We also gave up a lot of points in our losses when outside backs were injured or players were sinbinned.

In addition to this keeping our spine on the field was a major issue - when any of Sezer, Galvin, Api didn't play we lost, when they played we had a winning record and the losses were against top 4 teams (5 from 10 with 4 of the losses against the top 4 plus Broncos early season last yrs GF).

This tells me that the most important addition to our this year is Jack Bird at lock because if we lose a back mid game he can shift out to an edge.

We also need better spine depth for when one is out which I would suggest we have if via them getting more experience last year in Fainu, DeSilva, Douehi as well.

The other focus which is obvious to everyone is discipline - not every sin bin can be avoided but most could have been
 
boonboon said:
The 2 biggest factors in our defence in 2024 were injuries in the backline and sinbins. Your backs all going well should play 80 minutes but we lost backs to injury mid game in 16 of 24 games (we won 5 of the other 8). We also gave up a lot of points in our losses when outside backs were injured or players were sinbinned.

In addition to this keeping our spine on the field was a major issue - when any of Sezer, Galvin, Api didn't play we lost, when they played we had a winning record and the losses were against top 4 teams (5 from 10 with 4 of the losses against the top 4 plus Broncos early season last yrs GF).

This tells me that the most important addition to our this year is Jack Bird at lock because if we lose a back mid game he can shift out to an edge.

We also need better spine depth for when one is out which I would suggest we have if via them getting more experience last year in Fainu, DeSilva, Douehi as well.

The other focus which is obvious to everyone is discipline - not every sin bin can be avoided but most could have been
Click to expand...
In season 2024 I didn’t notice a particular position that was totally inept defensively and the opposition would target. In the past we have had real problems in the centres or in the middle.. or someone like Noffa or Doueihi constantly causing holes in our defensive line.
As Boony said above The sinbins and injuries/ depth players were a major factor in the WTs giving away so many points.
 
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