My point drippy is we are not expected to beat top 4 teams. What do u think I meant, people getting caught up in a bad performance. Top 4 teams at there home in a different country, it’s had for a bottom 4 teams to win. Especially with no rub of the green!
LIVE GAME Round 19 v Warriors
- Thread starter Suzie-Q
- Start date
Live Game Discussion
I think we are, just inconsistent. What did they say last nite? It’s our 7th or 8th halves combination this season. Remember Galvin f us up heavily this season, we lost 6 in a row after that happened. Then the tds happened, not conducive to a sustainable season.
We were out muscled, they were enthusiastic and very very strong in the ruck holding us down.
There is our game plan for the future right there.
There is our game plan for the future right there.
We had one bula plus a half that has started in what two games. So pretty much the same except ther replacements have played plenty of first grade previously.
We are a 3 time wooden spoon team they are in the top 4 playing in a different country! Again perspective
Bus 2 Terrigal
Well-known member
Our very own JD Vance 🤣🤣🤣
Enmore_Tiger
Well-known member
Out muscled yet still in it scoreboard wise for much of the game. The killer for me was the terrible discipline and dumb team football.
How many times did we win back momentum only to do something stupid? A full last set in attack before half time, not only kicked on the first, but gave them a final crack at us.
How many times did we win back momentum only to do something stupid? A full last set in attack before half time, not only kicked on the first, but gave them a final crack at us.
Jolls
Well-known member
That was another one for the highlight reel of how not to adapt in first grade. It will be in the same file as SOO 2025 game 3.
We’ve now lost seven from eight, and Sunday against the Warriors was a prime example of why. We can only hope that the magic of playing at the Eighth lifts us against the Titans. If we don't, based on how the Titan's played against the Donkeys yesterday, it will be eight losses from nine starts.
The Warriors were flying off their line all day and demonstrated why they are sitting pretty at 4th on the table. Their line speed was good and they used an aggressive up-and-in defence, and we just… kept… playing… the same "shape", behind a pack with no go forward, over and over, like a scratched record. There was no adjustment to play a bit deeper, straighten the attack, or kick early to turn them around. Our halves had no time, and our outside backs, for most of the game saw as much clean ball as a vegan in a butcher shop.
The only bright spark was Adam Doueihi looking surprisingly effective at lock late in the game. His ball-playing from the middle gave Luai and Latu a bit more width and time. It wasn’t pretty, but at least it was something different in a match where ‘different’ was as rare as a Wests Tigers finals appearance.
I'm left shaking my head, we knew what we would be facing but failed to react when we couldn't shift to our strengths. While most are knocking Benji for his coaching at least he tried to pull some strings and adjust the plan while the game was in motion. I'm sure he is as frustrated as us because the execution yesterday was park footy level (at best). The game plan was not five hit ups followed by a kick - we were forced into that because our halves and hookers weren't smart enough to adapt.
I trust that this week we can out enthuse the Titans at home, if not maybe we’ll adapt to their game plan before the 75th minute; or, at least learn to avoid turning the ball back into a larger more dominant pack time and time again.
I had this week pencilled as a W on the run home; but after yesterday it feels like it is onward to the next heartbreak. At least supporting the Tigers is character-building!
We’ve now lost seven from eight, and Sunday against the Warriors was a prime example of why. We can only hope that the magic of playing at the Eighth lifts us against the Titans. If we don't, based on how the Titan's played against the Donkeys yesterday, it will be eight losses from nine starts.
The Warriors were flying off their line all day and demonstrated why they are sitting pretty at 4th on the table. Their line speed was good and they used an aggressive up-and-in defence, and we just… kept… playing… the same "shape", behind a pack with no go forward, over and over, like a scratched record. There was no adjustment to play a bit deeper, straighten the attack, or kick early to turn them around. Our halves had no time, and our outside backs, for most of the game saw as much clean ball as a vegan in a butcher shop.
The only bright spark was Adam Doueihi looking surprisingly effective at lock late in the game. His ball-playing from the middle gave Luai and Latu a bit more width and time. It wasn’t pretty, but at least it was something different in a match where ‘different’ was as rare as a Wests Tigers finals appearance.
I'm left shaking my head, we knew what we would be facing but failed to react when we couldn't shift to our strengths. While most are knocking Benji for his coaching at least he tried to pull some strings and adjust the plan while the game was in motion. I'm sure he is as frustrated as us because the execution yesterday was park footy level (at best). The game plan was not five hit ups followed by a kick - we were forced into that because our halves and hookers weren't smart enough to adapt.
I trust that this week we can out enthuse the Titans at home, if not maybe we’ll adapt to their game plan before the 75th minute; or, at least learn to avoid turning the ball back into a larger more dominant pack time and time again.
I had this week pencilled as a W on the run home; but after yesterday it feels like it is onward to the next heartbreak. At least supporting the Tigers is character-building!
The Fresh Oil
Well-known member
Support warriors? Seems extreme but I’ll try it out.
Agree he isn't a captain. He's an old head with experience who brings alot to the team but he isn't a chief
Jolls
Well-known member
Sorry Team - long read - but it needs to be said.
I have raised leadership as a critical issue a few times. Some of it in a positve manner and some of it negative. I think that both of your opinions on Api are valid at the same time though. It also doesn't apply just to Api - you can extend it to Laui and Benji. We have plenty of leadership ability in the Club - it just isn't the right type, at the right place at the right time.
Despite what many people think leadership in not an inherited skill, some pick it up along the way either by being inspired by another leader or identifying what not to do by a poor leader. However, there is formal training that can be done to develop leadership and I think that is something the club could benefit from (for all players) over the off season.
There appears to be some leadership cpabilities missing in our team at the moment. At training and on the field we have plenty of lead by example leaders - but it isn't the leadership we need at critical junctures during games.
I have done a lot of leadership training, both as a student and as an instructor, over many years. I'm not going to bore you with the theory - you can look it up if you are interested. But let me have a shot at outlining where I think the issues lie (Laurie Daley may want to take some notes).
Watching the Warriors game, one thing was obvious: our leadership, particularly on the field, didn't adapt. It was a little better, but much too late from Benji, with his changes from the sideline. This has been exposed several times - the Storm game being the most evident.
Now, everyone leads differently: some tell you exactly what to do, others hype you up and some lead by example; but, the real test is what they do when things aren't going to plan. Before we delve into a solution here's a breakdown of some different leadership styles in normal speak:
- Autocratic: “Do what I say, no questions.”
- Democratic: “What do you reckon, boys? Let’s decide together.”
- Transformational: “Let’s rise up and do something special today.”
- Transactional: “You do your job, you get your reward. Stuff up, you’re dropped.”
- Laissez-Faire: “You guys figure it out, I’ll watch.”
- Servant: “How can I help you be your best?”
- Situational: “I’ll lead however you need me to right now.”
- Charismatic: “Follow me because I’ve got the energy and vibe.”
Api
Api appears to be a combination of a Charismatic and Servant leader. Most of the time he is calm, supportive, and knows how to talk to different players and tries hard to set standards. Great qualities. But when the game turns ugly, he is too quiet and it feels like no one takes charge. That slips into Laissez-Faire – the “someone else fix this” vibe.
Api needs to develop a Transformational leadershp style on the field. To be the bloke who can step up and say, “Right boys, here’s what we’re doing to get back in this.” He needs to use his leadership and experience to have the team adapt to the changing environment. It takes more than just leadership though, it requires football knowledge. Api needs to understand how to unhinge what is providing the oppositon strength. I will get to this later.
Jarome Luai
Luai appears to be more of a Charismatic and Democratic leader. He hypes the team up, brings energy, and loves to create plays. But when it’s going pear-shaped, he looks frustrated, and the team feels it.
Luai needs to develop Situational Leadership as a club in his golf bag. He has to be able to adjust to what the team needs in that moment – keep the hype when we’re rolling, but when we’re under the pump, stay calm and clear. He also needs a bit of that same Transformational style as Api to pull the boys together and reset their focus when it’s falling apart. Again he needs tools to enable him to undermine the opposition on the run if they are nullifying his attacking prowess.
Benji Marshall
Benji’s coaching style so far seems to be Democratic with a Transformational vision. He wants to inspire the boys with an attacking mindset and let them play what they see. Awesome in theory. But when Plan A gets shut down, we’re seeing no adjustments until it’s way too late.
Benji possibly needs a to bit more Situational and Autocratic at times (we don't know for sure because his leadership is not on display). Sometimes it’s not about giving players the freedom to figure it out. Sometimes it’s about saying, “Listen up – this is what we’re doing now, and here’s how.” The best coaches find the balance between empowering their players and stepping in with clear tactical plans when needed.
Combined
Api, Luai, and Benji all have great leadership qualities, but none of them are adapting fast enough when the plan isn't working. They have all come from systems where their current style was developed and has been successful - so they are struggling to adapt and they possibly lack the understanding to transform their inspirational/participative leadership styles when knowledge and clalm are required. This is also where the Co-Captain fad is lacking. When things aren't working, under stress there needs to be a single point of truth and direction to rally around. Give one the C and one VC and it will work. No need to make it complicated; ie who do I look to for guidancce.
Tools
The tools required are simple and it is something that they have all been exposed to. However, while it is easy to write it is very difficult to execute - especially if you have not exercised it much before. The three individuals in charge of our destiny have all been successful through skill, combined with their own leadership styles - that are primarily based on using their charisma to inspire.
When things aren't going to plan they need to analyse the situation and determine why the current plan is not working and how to fix it. That is very difficult to do mid game as the mind is focussed on the present. But, if something can be forseen, it can be planned for, so a change can be executed as simply as a play is called. It is simply a rehearsed contingency plan. Here's a couple of simple examples:
Opposition Line speed
- Strength - cuts decsion making time and shuts down shifts
- Critical vulnerability - ability to turn and chase
- Reaction - kick short over or through the line, 40/20
- Strength - Stops attacking momentum with dominant hits and slow ruck speed
Critical Vulnerability - Lateral movement and fatigue - Reaction - Switch the point of attack wider to move the defenders laterally and attack their inside shoulder with late footwork and exploit lateral movement using hooker and fullback.
Right now, it feels like we’re watching a tragic drama with no plot twist in sight. If Api and Luai can't develop the ability to adapt on the run - it will not matter how big, fast or determined the players we buy in - if we don't improve our smarts (leadership) we aren't improving our ladder positon.
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Tom Shines
Well-known member
Did we not anticipate that would be their game plan and try to counter that ?
For the first 60 mins we wanted to take them on in the middle
Jolls
Well-known member
Winston,
Firstly, my apologies for reacting so poorly in my response to your accusation that I have posted ChatGPT as my own thoughts. I expected given your Avatar and your usually apt comments that you were someone who can think. I was pretty pissed off that you would take aim at my post claiming that it has been lifted from ChatGPT - I expect without even reading it.
A bit of background for you. In my last job before retirement I was responsible for examining the actions of opponents to try and determine where they were going. This was to enable my organisation to get there first and have a solution to the problem before it arose. I was also responsible for examining events that had occurred and from that proposing solutions to prevent injury and death - some of those solutions were developed and have saved lives.
I raise this to highlight that I am capable of making reasonable deductions from what I understand. I also had to write a lot of papers trying to convince those with $ to part with it when they were being inundated with requests for funds from others who thought their project ideas were more compelling. So what you get on the forum is how I have learnt to present facts/theories.
Look if you think it is ChatGPT - please go ahead and expose me for being a fraud. However, if you are simply being provocative for the sake of it, I trust that you might reconsider that approach. We’re all here because we’re passionate about the Tigers, and it’s better if we challenge ideas rather than attacking the person sharing them.
I’m happy to discuss or debate anything I post – that’s the whole point of the forum – but dismissing a post as AI-generated without reading or engaging with the content doesn’t really help anyone.
No hard feelings from me. Let’s just keep the discussion focused on the footy, where it belongs.
Cheers,
Craig
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jirskyr
Well-known member
Some interesting hot takes in the heat of the moment after the game: Benji can't coach, Richo is a shit CEO etc.
I didn't see anything like that, like some others said, I saw a Warriors team who outmuscled us when it counted and then we started to chase points.
We looked alright with May / Pole / Twal going forward early, but we also struggled with key missed tackles and our go-forward out of trouble is ordinary. Warriors are a simple but effective team, they kick deep and they don't miss tackles or drop ball much any more, which is how you used to get out of a pickle in New Zealand. Tanah Boyd was very good considering he hasn't played all year.
And the trouble with the Warriors is once they roll their 6'4" agile 110kg starting forwards off, they bring on another pair of 6'4" agile 100kg forwards. It used to be that these forwards couldn't catch and got gassed after 20 minutes, but credit to Webster he has them humming along and they are arguably one of the most physical teams going around.
That match keeps Warriors in 4th with 11 wins. They've only lost 2 matches at home all year; they haven't been beaten by a team outside the Top 6 (Raiders x2, Storm away, Penrith home, Broncos away). They've won several close matches away, so they know how to win tough. They are a good side.
So I don't know how any of that reflects specifically on the coach. Our starting pack was then replaced by Sione, Seyfarth and Jack Bird. It's not good enough, big enough or powerful enough. Sukkar started. We need more big boys who can physically turn sets into our advantage.
Pole had a good first stint then came up with some terrible handling errors second half. Terrell May needs support, he needs a JFH type player who will also go deep into the line all match. We really need a million-dollar forward like Tino to balance the pack and I'd go all hell with the cheque book to make something like that happen. I'd also take the punt on D Fifita, for the pure size and power. Then we could afford to bring back Hunt for his 20 minutes and not be so worse for wear.
As it was the team hung tough - we were on the ropes a lot and we fought back twice to be within 8 points. Fairly reminiscent of our Campbelltown match except on that one we got the try to reel them back in, whereas this time we got anxious and misused the footy in the last 15.
BUT - very often if the Warriors gave us a leg up via handling error or penalty we did score. We did grind away at the line and despite being beaten in the middle we did put on points. Goal kicking was an issue, as was Latu's kicking game where he kicks too short.
Lastly Gerard Sutton is such a shit ref, he has no feel for the game. He misses clear infringements and blows penalties on randoms. Warriors got a few leg-ups at key points in the first half including some rubbish ruck penalties, then Sutton has a mad habit of blowing 6-against like a maniac when it doesn't matter, like tackle 1 in attack. I reckon it ended up around 50/50 but both teams had weather loads of pressure on their own line, except Warriors were in the habit of making line breaks and therefore being on our line more often.
So Benji needs some better forwards. The backs had limited space to work. Moving Doueihi to halves worked well for focusing the attack but then it left us short on the left edge because Bird is not a centre. We missed Bula in those slippery conditions, though Turuva was very direct he has little else to offer at FB. Also he doesn't get half the calls for the head highs he cops going up the middle.
I didn't see anything like that, like some others said, I saw a Warriors team who outmuscled us when it counted and then we started to chase points.
We looked alright with May / Pole / Twal going forward early, but we also struggled with key missed tackles and our go-forward out of trouble is ordinary. Warriors are a simple but effective team, they kick deep and they don't miss tackles or drop ball much any more, which is how you used to get out of a pickle in New Zealand. Tanah Boyd was very good considering he hasn't played all year.
And the trouble with the Warriors is once they roll their 6'4" agile 110kg starting forwards off, they bring on another pair of 6'4" agile 100kg forwards. It used to be that these forwards couldn't catch and got gassed after 20 minutes, but credit to Webster he has them humming along and they are arguably one of the most physical teams going around.
That match keeps Warriors in 4th with 11 wins. They've only lost 2 matches at home all year; they haven't been beaten by a team outside the Top 6 (Raiders x2, Storm away, Penrith home, Broncos away). They've won several close matches away, so they know how to win tough. They are a good side.
So I don't know how any of that reflects specifically on the coach. Our starting pack was then replaced by Sione, Seyfarth and Jack Bird. It's not good enough, big enough or powerful enough. Sukkar started. We need more big boys who can physically turn sets into our advantage.
Pole had a good first stint then came up with some terrible handling errors second half. Terrell May needs support, he needs a JFH type player who will also go deep into the line all match. We really need a million-dollar forward like Tino to balance the pack and I'd go all hell with the cheque book to make something like that happen. I'd also take the punt on D Fifita, for the pure size and power. Then we could afford to bring back Hunt for his 20 minutes and not be so worse for wear.
As it was the team hung tough - we were on the ropes a lot and we fought back twice to be within 8 points. Fairly reminiscent of our Campbelltown match except on that one we got the try to reel them back in, whereas this time we got anxious and misused the footy in the last 15.
BUT - very often if the Warriors gave us a leg up via handling error or penalty we did score. We did grind away at the line and despite being beaten in the middle we did put on points. Goal kicking was an issue, as was Latu's kicking game where he kicks too short.
Lastly Gerard Sutton is such a shit ref, he has no feel for the game. He misses clear infringements and blows penalties on randoms. Warriors got a few leg-ups at key points in the first half including some rubbish ruck penalties, then Sutton has a mad habit of blowing 6-against like a maniac when it doesn't matter, like tackle 1 in attack. I reckon it ended up around 50/50 but both teams had weather loads of pressure on their own line, except Warriors were in the habit of making line breaks and therefore being on our line more often.
So Benji needs some better forwards. The backs had limited space to work. Moving Doueihi to halves worked well for focusing the attack but then it left us short on the left edge because Bird is not a centre. We missed Bula in those slippery conditions, though Turuva was very direct he has little else to offer at FB. Also he doesn't get half the calls for the head highs he cops going up the middle.
Great summation
Exactly
We were $4.10 to beat the roosters and I had a nice collect
They had all their Origin players missing we had 1.
This week we played the Warriors in NZ at full strength (excluding injuries to both teams) and there was no way I was backing the tigers.
They are in the top 4 WE are in the bottom 4.
We are still a year away from getting near a Top 4 team i think more realistic in 2027.
Stay Strong
Once a Tiger 🐅 always a Tiger.
Tom Shines
Well-known member
The Warriors have come off two losses and were missing two of their spine players ..and Origin player Mitch Barnett …
You are entitled to your own opinions of course and it turns out in hindsight you were a pretty good judge …. However , plenty of people here before the game expected a big showing from the Tigers and a couple even picked a victory …it’s interesting that after they were outclassed , the narrative shifts that they were never a hope, top 4 team, yada yada ..
sydneytiger33
New member
if you check the stats for that rd 4 match, I think you'll find the same problem as yesterday which is that they are just bigger, stronger and more powerful than us. They outran us by almost 500 meters in both matches this year. We were just lucky to have gotten them earlier on when their attack was still rusty.
As others have said, we need to get real. Being in the top 4 this late into the season is no fluke. Wahs are there because of their forwards. Alongside Canberra, that pack is probably the benchmark. They are all big, mobile, have a handy offload and have huge motors. They've belted much bigger packs than us into submission all year. So it was galactic level stupidity for Benji to think we could beat them at their own game.
We are playing a team at our level this week. I'd be more concerned if we get blown apart again through the middle against another pack that has also routinely lost the field position battle all year.
innsaneink
Well-known member
Stats schmatz.
We were in that game for a long way ...a good team wouldve come home over the top of them
We were in that game for a long way ...a good team wouldve come home over the top of them
Tooff-less Cat
New member
The game yesterday was won by the warriors simply through fundamental basics been done better than the tigers.
They dominated with :
- Better deep kicking game
- Better speed around the ruck with the ball
- Better control of our play the ball speed
- Better goal line defense
Tigers played the whole game with no momentum usually starting our sets deep in our half and poor last tackle kick execution killed them
They dominated with :
- Better deep kicking game
- Better speed around the ruck with the ball
- Better control of our play the ball speed
- Better goal line defense
Tigers played the whole game with no momentum usually starting our sets deep in our half and poor last tackle kick execution killed them
Yes mate, but be fair we were also missing two spine players. Galvin, Bula and tds yes I know champ they have left . But not much difference when we trained all off season with them in those slots. Not to mention Latu’s what second starting game. It’s not like we have a consistent line up. They said it’s the 7th halves combination we’ve had this season, hardly consistent. Be fair in your analysis, dont be the hater, be measured.
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