The NRL must INTERVENE

[Leck]

The titans owners ( private ownership ) went broke. It had nothing to do with poor governance they just couldn't meet the NRL demand to fork out money to pay wages. The NRL had to intervene to be able to onsell the licence.

A corporate financial collapse stems from systemic breakdowns in risk handling, strategic accountability and club governance.

The ongoing mismanagement of our club is the major factor for our lack of success, thanks to HBG.

 

[diedpretty]

A corporate financial collapse stems from systemic breakdowns in risk handling, strategic accountability and club governance.

The ongoing mismanagement of our club is the major factor for our lack of success, thanks to HBG.

But, but it was privately owned - the holy grail.

 

[Papacito]

I feel like PVL is running NRL like a business more than an asset.

I find the amount of changes and comments he makes off the cuff quite unprofessional and unsettling. I just feel like he's creating a bubble which might burst the moment he leaves or one big private owner sells at a loss.

Scott Penn apparently invests less into Manly than HBG into WT.

Lots of money going to players and other businesses but not into R&D and development of coaches.

I feel like a lot of clubs should be sending their performance coaches into EPL, NFL, NBA etc to see their recovery methods, their testing protocols and invite them to NRL as well.

I have no evidence to support it, but it just feels like we are expanding off a poor base. I don't buy this "we were about to go broke before PVL" bs. And if that's true, shouldn't the millions of extra $$ be invested more into NRL clubs (not salary cap) instead of expanding into another countries?

This is a really good point and touches on some big concerns within the game and risks. Less so with coaching and sports science, but the supply of elite talent.

In the blink of an eye, PVL and co have added two new clubs (PNG and Perth). Allegedly there is also a financial incentive on the table for another club to be added by 2029 (I think). The guys at the top have sold the broadcasters a product that there's a risk they can't deliver.

Neither PNG nor Perth has development pathways to speak of. The only way they fill their roster of 60+ elite players is to immediately poach players from other clubs. Those clubs then need to somehow fill holes in their roster.

A perfect example are the Laulilii brothers. Both local juniors that our club invested into. We've effectively paid the manufacturing cost for Perth to benefit from.

Once the third expansion team is added, you're talking a bigger shortage. An immediate need for 100 or so first graders and new ones coming through each season to replace those that retire, get injured etc.

Strategically it seems like the clubs putting a lot of money into big second tier programs will get hit hardest. Clubs will be picking the eyes out of their program.

Your point on Manly is a great one too. As a club, they don't spend much at all but have a reputation for talent identification. I also don't think it's appreciated enough either but Penrith and Brisbane have historically been elite at finding talent rather than just developing hundreds of kids and crossing their fingers.

I'm quietly optimistic that we're actually in a good position for the next five years if we have (or can get) the right sort of people finding talent for us. I'd be less confident with the calls for HBG to fund broad based pathways for other clubs to benefit from. Strategically it seems like a bad time for this approach.

 

[wstigers11]

It would be great if they bought the franchise wholly from HBG. New ownership that actually cares about performance.

Would seem like a win for both you’d think

 

[NT_Tiger]

Would seem like a win for both you’d think

And they wouldnt have to wait till the NRL is ready for further expansion, they'd get an existing franchise.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I feel like PVL is running NRL like a business more than an asset.

I find the amount of changes and comments he makes off the cuff quite unprofessional and unsettling. I just feel like he's creating a bubble which might burst the moment he leaves or one big private owner sells at a loss.

Scott Penn apparently invests less into Manly than HBG into WT.

Lots of money going to players and other businesses but not into R&D and development of coaches.

I feel like a lot of clubs should be sending their performance coaches into EPL, NFL, NBA etc to see their recovery methods, their testing protocols and invite them to NRL as well.

I have no evidence to support it, but it just feels like we are expanding off a poor base. I don't buy this "we were about to go broke before PVL" bs. And if that's true, shouldn't the millions of extra $$ be invested more into NRL clubs (not salary cap) instead of expanding into another countries?

It should be invested in grassroots to ensure there is a constant stream of quality juniors coming through the game, especially out bush.

 

[tig_prmz]

This is a really good point and touches on some big concerns within the game and risks. Less so with coaching and sports science, but the supply of elite talent.

In the blink of an eye, PVL and co have added two new clubs (PNG and Perth). Allegedly there is also a financial incentive on the table for another club to be added by 2029 (I think). The guys at the top have sold the broadcasters a product that there's a risk they can't deliver.

Neither PNG nor Perth has development pathways to speak of. The only way they fill their roster of 60+ elite players is to immediately poach players from other clubs. Those clubs then need to somehow fill holes in their roster.

A perfect example are the Laulilii brothers. Both local juniors that our club invested into. We've effectively paid the manufacturing cost for Perth to benefit from.

Once the third expansion team is added, you're talking a bigger shortage. An immediate need for 100 or so first graders and new ones coming through each season to replace those that retire, get injured etc.

Strategically it seems like the clubs putting a lot of money into big second tier programs will get hit hardest. Clubs will be picking the eyes out of their program.

Your point on Manly is a great one too. As a club, they don't spend much at all but have a reputation for talent identification. I also don't think it's appreciated enough either but Penrith and Brisbane have historically been elite at finding talent rather than just developing hundreds of kids and crossing their fingers.

I'm quietly optimistic that we're actually in a good position for the next five years if we have (or can get) the right sort of people finding talent for us. I'd be less confident with the calls for HBG to fund broad based pathways for other clubs to benefit from. Strategically it seems like a bad time for this approach.

I agree with most your points except the first one.

I think the talent is there. It needs sports science and coaching to make it elite. Lots of kids around Western and South West Sydney, South East Brisbane and New Zealand that have a bunch of talent but their junior clubs don't have the resources..

They don't see money in NRL until they're at the top.

The funding I believe should go towards funding excellence centers that are NOT club specific.

Pay for their accommodation, TAFE, uni degrees. Maybe NRL can affiliate with other unis kind of like how they do in college football.

Im afraid we are expanding off a bad base. I'm not saying it won't work and by all reports, the only reason we have this money to expand is because of PVL but unless your second, third and fourth string players are able to make some sort of a living off football, I can't see us producing talent.

 

[Chunk]

I'm quietly optimistic that we're actually in a good position for the next five years if we have (or can get) the right sort of people finding talent for us. I'd be less confident with the calls for HBG to fund broad based pathways for other clubs to benefit from. Strategically it seems like a bad time for this approach.

I agree, this is one area were we are stronger than most clubs, our pathway system should be treated like gold, it's so obvious, so you'd have to think that, not only the football club but even HBG are willing to poor more resources towards this 🙂....well considering past history, maybe not.

Its our golden goose.

 

[Papacito]

I agree with most your points except the first one.

I think the talent is there. It needs sports science and coaching to make it elite. Lots of kids around Western and South West Sydney, South East Brisbane and New Zealand that have a bunch of talent but their junior clubs don't have the resources..

They don't see money in NRL until they're at the top.

The funding I believe should go towards funding excellence centers that are NOT club specific.

Pay for their accommodation, TAFE, uni degrees. Maybe NRL can affiliate with other unis kind of like how they do in college football.

Im afraid we are expanding off a bad base. I'm not saying it won't work and by all reports, the only reason we have this money to expand is because of PVL but unless your second, third and fourth string players are able to make some sort of a living off football, I can't see us producing talent.

Great points. I'd still argue in the short term there's a talent problem. I'm not sure the sport has 60-100 or so guys kicking around in reserves that are NRL quality. That's not to say we won't get there eventually. It will take a while for the sub NRL level to expand to that point. In the meantime, someone is going to suffer.

 

[Chunk]

I agree with most your points except the first one.

I think the talent is there. It needs sports science and coaching to make it elite. Lots of kids around Western and South West Sydney, South East Brisbane and New Zealand that have a bunch of talent but their junior clubs don't have the resources..

They don't see money in NRL until they're at the top.

The funding I believe should go towards funding excellence centers that are NOT club specific.

Pay for their accommodation, TAFE, uni degrees. Maybe NRL can affiliate with other unis kind of like how they do in college football.

Im afraid we are expanding off a bad base. I'm not saying it won't work and by all reports, the only reason we have this money to expand is because of PVL but unless your second, third and fourth string players are able to make some sort of a living off football, I can't see us producing talent.

As long as its done fairly, what you're talking about could mean that other richer clubs may have easier or more access to the wider talent pool thats developed by the Tigers, Parra, Penrith Dragons, Knights etc not Perth, Roosters, Manly, Melbourne, PNG.

I reckon if you can't produce your own juniors then tough, pay extras.

I'd be hoping that the Roosters are funding country areas for example.

 

[Papacito]

I agree, this is one area were we are stronger than most clubs, our pathway system should be treated like gold, it's so obvious, so you'd have to think that, not only the football club but even HBG are willing to poor more resources towards this 🙂....well considering past history, maybe not.

Its our golden goose.

For mine, it's a tricky area and nuanced area and I'm treading carefully when I say this.

Years back, a lot of clubs threw big money at any youngster with an ounce of talent and called it a pathways system. A bit buying a lot of Lotto tickets in the hope that one pays off.

Unfortunately we're talking humans and not Lotto. That approach chews out a lot of young men after giving them false hope, sometimes with horrible consequences.

The clubs doing pathways well these days aren't necessarily the ones putting huge resources into it or signing hundreds of guys on the books in hope.

The ones doing well have really experienced development staff with good success rates and a system that does not rush them to the NRL before they're ready. Most have a lot of continuity too or experience at other clubs.

I'm not sure where we stand in this respect. We did seem to have turbulence in this area around the time we signed Fulton as recruitment manager. Only to be replaced shortly after by Shane Richardson as recruitment manager and CEO. There were a few good articles around this but the politics were lost on me.

Shane Richardson hinted that the club was taking a more focussed approach before he left and cut a lot of the hopium contracts. For mine, this is a very ethical approach and probably more in line with where the sport is heading.

 

[FinestTigers]

I agree with most your points except the first one.

I think the talent is there. It needs sports science and coaching to make it elite. Lots of kids around Western and South West Sydney, South East Brisbane and New Zealand that have a bunch of talent but their junior clubs don't have the resources..

They don't see money in NRL until they're at the top.

The funding I believe should go towards funding excellence centers that are NOT club specific.

Pay for their accommodation, TAFE, uni degrees. Maybe NRL can affiliate with other unis kind of like how they do in college football.

Im afraid we are expanding off a bad base. I'm not saying it won't work and by all reports, the only reason we have this money to expand is because of PVL but unless your second, third and fourth string players are able to make some sort of a living off football, I can't see us producing talent.

I Agree and you've raised some very important considerations not only about the junior pathways system but also the NRL's funding of them or the lack thereof.

I believe if we were to only address the fixing of the underfunding in the NZ talent hubs, the solutions there should also automatically apply and eventuate in to the other talent hubs that you have mentioned which are the western south regions of Sydney and in Queensland, all of these regions produce a massive percentage of NRL players.

Underfunding in NZ Rugby League.
The budget of NZRL is only a tiny fraction of the NRL's budget, meaning when one team, the Warriors are representing a whole country they are also tasked with an unmanageable task of developing and keeping their junior pathways with this tiny budget.

The results of Underfunding in NZRL.
The club's lack basic facilities, proper coaching and junior competitions which is why elite clubs in Australia get to cherry pick from this large talent hub and sign them on cheap development contracts and without having to invest into NZ''s junior infrastructure.

To remodel these talent hubs in to sustainable, fair and high performing, then financial changes are needed to apply.

1. Redistribution of revenue into talent hubs.
When a club signs a player then a percentage of that contract should be given to the players junior club.

2. Instead of being privately owned, the NRL should fund independent regional centres ensuring high performance and welfare support and preventing the elite clubs from poaching and hoarding the talented juniors

3. Regardless of household income, The NRL should subsidise fees including registration fees, equipment and medical to keep juniors in the game.
.

 

[Leck]

I Agree and you've raised some very important considerations not only about the junior pathways system but also the NRL's funding of them or the lack thereof.

I believe if we were to only address the fixing of the underfunding in the NZ talent hubs, the solutions there should also automatically apply and eventuate in to the other talent hubs that you have mentioned which are the western south regions of Sydney and in Queensland, all of these regions produce a massive percentage of NRL players.

Underfunding in NZ Rugby League.
The budget of NZRL is only a tiny fraction of the NRL's budget, meaning when one team, the Warriors are representing a whole country they are also tasked with an unmanageable task of developing and keeping their junior pathways with this tiny budget.

The results of Underfunding in NZRL.
The club's lack basic facilities, proper coaching and junior competitions which is why elite clubs in Australia get to cherry pick from this large talent hub and sign them on cheap development contracts and without having to invest into NZ''s junior infrastructure.

To remodel these talent hubs in to sustainable, fair and high performing, then financial changes are needed to apply.

1. Redistribution of revenue into talent hubs.
When a club signs a player then a percentage of that contract should be given to the players junior club.

2. Instead of being privately owned, the NRL should fund independent regional centres ensuring high performance and welfare support and preventing the elite clubs from poaching and hoarding the talented juniors

3. Regardless of household income, The NRL should subsidise fees including registration fees, equipment and medical to keep juniors in the game.
.

@FinestTigers are you a Wahs supporter?

 

[liltiger]

But, but it was privately owned - the holy grail.

We are privately owned aswell. 90% by one faction 10% by another. We are just privately owned by two groups of morons.

 

[Chunk]

For mine, it's a tricky area and nuanced area and I'm treading carefully when I say this.

Years back, a lot of clubs threw big money at any youngster with an ounce of talent and called it a pathways system. A bit buying a lot of Lotto tickets in the hope that one pays off.

Unfortunately we're talking humans and not Lotto. That approach chews out a lot of young men after giving them false hope, sometimes with horrible consequences.

The clubs doing pathways well these days aren't necessarily the ones putting huge resources into it or signing hundreds of guys on the books in hope.

The ones doing well have really experienced development staff with good success rates and a system that does not rush them to the NRL before they're ready. Most have a lot of continuity too or experience at other clubs.

I'm not sure where we stand in this respect. We did seem to have turbulence in this area around the time we signed Fulton as recruitment manager. Only to be replaced shortly after by Shane Richardson as recruitment manager and CEO. There were a few good articles around this but the politics were lost on me.

Shane Richardson hinted that the club was taking a more focussed approach before he left and cut a lot of the hopium contracts. For mine, this is a very ethical approach and probably more in line with where the sport is heading.

Yes, you're right, when using the term resources, I mean more then just money, it relates to the people, time, structures, management approaches and so on.

Hopefully the Tigers have learnt from past mistakes, they've had their fair share.

 

[liltiger]

I agree with most your points except the first one.

I think the talent is there. It needs sports science and coaching to make it elite. Lots of kids around Western and South West Sydney, South East Brisbane and New Zealand that have a bunch of talent but their junior clubs don't have the resources..

They don't see money in NRL until they're at the top.

The funding I believe should go towards funding excellence centers that are NOT club specific.

Pay for their accommodation, TAFE, uni degrees. Maybe NRL can affiliate with other unis kind of like how they do in college football.

Im afraid we are expanding off a bad base. I'm not saying it won't work and by all reports, the only reason we have this money to expand is because of PVL but unless your second, third and fourth string players are able to make some sort of a living off football, I can't see us producing talent.

This. 100%. We will never realistically have the resources of the other clubs while HBG own us. Its just the reality that the way weve been set up when we merged was that the leagues clubs were there to only cover any shortfall to keep us financially solvent. Not prosperous.
We need a point of difference to attract the elite juniors. Roosters and Broncs its corporate and media gigs after football, other clubs do other things. For our catchment in particular south west, we should be using player education. We should be subsidising contracts with scholarships. Alot of the younger guys out south west may not be able to afford the education, maybe the first in their families to go to university. If we offered to pay their way for a trade or degree i think that parents would jump over themselves to get their kids involved with us. The medoa career really only goes to the top 1%. We could offer these kids alot of whoms parents struggle to make ends meat a way to a better lofe even if they dont make it. Obviously it would have to be incentive based so a player may lose funding if they dont perform. Yet one or two years of a four year degree paid for is still pretty attractive and could really give us that point of difference in attracting juniors and their families and keepung them with us.

 

[FinestTigers]

@FinestTigers are you a Wahs supporter?

I'm not a kiwi or a Wah, nowhere near it mate.😀

 

[tig_prmz]

I think we should invest a bit in assets.

Buy a couple of boarding houses, affiliate with WSU or UNSW, offer kids from NZ.or SE Brisbane scholarships and free accommodation. Partner with construction companies, get them jobs, get them to work and become professional.

Have dozens of kids eating, living, studying and playing together.

I know we are probably doing something like that but not to the extent that we should be.

Hopefully the houses appreciate in value, the players live and breathe football. Get them away from the comforts of living in their family home.

Melb, Dogs and Penrith definitely do something like that.

 

[kiwitiger]

Got to be honest it is time for pvl to get his arse down to WA.
Denny could do the entertainment for GF day.
Could Denny save the day?

 

[wstigers11]

I think we should invest a bit in assets.

Buy a couple of boarding houses, affiliate with WSU or UNSW, offer kids from NZ.or SE Brisbane scholarships and free accommodation. Partner with construction companies, get them jobs, get them to work and become professional.

Have dozens of kids eating, living, studying and playing together.

I know we are probably doing something like that but not to the extent that we should be.

Hopefully the houses appreciate in value, the players live and breathe football. Get them away from the comforts of living in their family home.

Melb, Dogs and Penrith definitely do something like that.

Most have, we have nowhere near enough investment for that