Its a bold strategic move on shaun behalf lets hope and back him he can be as bold and strategic for wests tigers. Give him time then sharpen the knife if he fails in a couple of seasons
But he simply hasn't had the time as of yet
It's time to take the fight back to HBG
- Thread starter balmain boy
- Start date
But he simply hasn't had the time as of yet
Interesting L&G are still investigating.
Wasnt aware of that.
Thought they cleared everything.
Wasnt aware of that.
Thought they cleared everything.
Chunk
Well-known member
This great to hear, maybe the Tony Andreacchio lawsuit will influence the L&G findings, being just another example, amongst others of how restrictive the system is.
It might help speed it up as well?
Tired Tiger
Well-known member
Almost like you want the last 15 years of failure to continue unchecked.....
Whilst not illegal dose it not strike you that the Holman Barnes group is the only licensed club in NSW that uses a Debenture System.
Seems very strange to me...Surely if it was best practice many other licensed clubs would use it too.....
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Joel Helmes
Well-known member
No other established club could switch to a debenture system because the members would never vote for such an undemocratic governance system.
The only way HBG debentures have managed to hold unchallenged (and unchallengable) control of the organisation is because it was in place from day one at Wests Ashfield.
Pringle Gold
Well-known member
It’s mind boggling that a system like this is still allowed really. It’s unbelievably antiquated and has kept power residing in the hands of the same people and their relatives since the 1950’s.
The only other leagues club that had a debenture system in place was St George and they changed that structure in the 60’s because it wasn’t fit for purpose back then.
The history of debenture systems in New South Wales (NSW) registered clubs dates back to the early-to-mid 20th century. Originally a critical mechanism for grassroots funding, the system has evolved into a controversial tool for long-term board security and corporate governance.
1. The Post-War Capital Inception (1920s–1960s)
Before the introduction of poker machines in 1956, local community, golf, bowling, and rugby league clubs struggled to secure bank loans due to their lack of underlying assets and uncertain revenues.
• Crowdfunding Communities: To purchase land and construct clubhouses, clubs turned to their members. Members were issued "debentures"—effectively an unsecured loan or certificate backed by a fixed interest payment or equity stake in the club.
• Mandatory Take-Ups: For many early clubs, subscribing to a debenture was a prerequisite for joining. For instance, Cronulla Golf Club in 1927 required members to buy debentures, and Mounties Group (originally Mt Pritchard Workers Club) relied on debentures in the early 1960s to purchase land and secure ex-government huts to use as their initial clubhouse.
2. Transition into Governance Anchors
As poker machine revenues exploded in the 1960s and 1970s, clubs achieved immense financial self-sufficiency, meaning they no longer needed new capital injections from members. However, instead of phasing out debentures entirely, a few select clubs transitioned the system into a mechanism for elite governance and constitutional protection.
The most famous modern survival of this is the Western Suburbs Leagues Club (now Holman Barnes Group).
• The 1955 Structure: In 1955, 20 founding members each provided $100 to get the Ashfield Leagues club off the ground, secured via debentures.
• Board Control: Under the club’s constitution, these 20 select "Debenture Holders" retained the right to hand-pick five of the seven directors on the board. The general pool of over 28,500 everyday members could only vote on the remaining two spots.
3. Modern Scrutiny and Dissolution (1990s–Present)
As corporate standards modernized, the lack of transparency, inability to transfer debentures, and democratic deficit within these structures drew public scrutiny.
• Phasing Out: Many private and leisure clubs, such as the Sydney Ski Club, proactively repurchased and cancelled outstanding debentures by the late 1990s to streamline their assets.
• Regulatory Challenges: For clubs maintaining the system, statutory investigations became more frequent. While Liquor & Gaming NSW historically ruled that these long-standing debenture systems were legal under the Registered Clubs Act 1976, internal pressure mounted.
• The Supreme Court Battles: The tension peaked in late 2023 through 2026, when the Holman Barnes Group (owners of the Wests Tigers NRL team) engaged in a bitter legal and boardroom fight. Long-term debenture holders themselves publicly called to "blow up" the 70-year-old framework, labeling it an archaic, out-of-date power structure that disenfranchised everyday fans and members.
Il
1. The Post-War Capital Inception (1920s–1960s)
Before the introduction of poker machines in 1956, local community, golf, bowling, and rugby league clubs struggled to secure bank loans due to their lack of underlying assets and uncertain revenues.
• Crowdfunding Communities: To purchase land and construct clubhouses, clubs turned to their members. Members were issued "debentures"—effectively an unsecured loan or certificate backed by a fixed interest payment or equity stake in the club.
• Mandatory Take-Ups: For many early clubs, subscribing to a debenture was a prerequisite for joining. For instance, Cronulla Golf Club in 1927 required members to buy debentures, and Mounties Group (originally Mt Pritchard Workers Club) relied on debentures in the early 1960s to purchase land and secure ex-government huts to use as their initial clubhouse.
2. Transition into Governance Anchors
As poker machine revenues exploded in the 1960s and 1970s, clubs achieved immense financial self-sufficiency, meaning they no longer needed new capital injections from members. However, instead of phasing out debentures entirely, a few select clubs transitioned the system into a mechanism for elite governance and constitutional protection.
The most famous modern survival of this is the Western Suburbs Leagues Club (now Holman Barnes Group).
• The 1955 Structure: In 1955, 20 founding members each provided $100 to get the Ashfield Leagues club off the ground, secured via debentures.
• Board Control: Under the club’s constitution, these 20 select "Debenture Holders" retained the right to hand-pick five of the seven directors on the board. The general pool of over 28,500 everyday members could only vote on the remaining two spots.
3. Modern Scrutiny and Dissolution (1990s–Present)
As corporate standards modernized, the lack of transparency, inability to transfer debentures, and democratic deficit within these structures drew public scrutiny.
• Phasing Out: Many private and leisure clubs, such as the Sydney Ski Club, proactively repurchased and cancelled outstanding debentures by the late 1990s to streamline their assets.
• Regulatory Challenges: For clubs maintaining the system, statutory investigations became more frequent. While Liquor & Gaming NSW historically ruled that these long-standing debenture systems were legal under the Registered Clubs Act 1976, internal pressure mounted.
• The Supreme Court Battles: The tension peaked in late 2023 through 2026, when the Holman Barnes Group (owners of the Wests Tigers NRL team) engaged in a bitter legal and boardroom fight. Long-term debenture holders themselves publicly called to "blow up" the 70-year-old framework, labeling it an archaic, out-of-date power structure that disenfranchised everyday fans and members.
Il
magpies forever
Well-known member
Thanks Ink.
mtd#2
Well-known member
What has happened that has shifted your opinion?
And what exactly does a positive situation look like?
cochise
Well-known member
My position hasn't shifted
mtd#2
Well-known member
I dont recall you ever posting a positive outcome that included hbg in it?
mtd#2
Well-known member
From what I have seen, they dont tick either of those boxes.
hammertime
Well-known member
The reason for the voting power (to protect their investment) is no longer a factor and these debentures shouldn't be either.
I really wish L&G would put their big boy pants on. The amount of turmoil there is enough to take administrative action. It shouldn't be up to private citizens in the courts.
Thats exactly what John Hardgrove said and its correct
liltiger
Well-known member
Cause HBG couldnt do anything else with that money. Meanwhile Shaun is saying an extra certain ammount of members the club is aiming for is like $1 million wests tigers could use in areas that could really benefit the club. Hey Shaun how about growing a pair and having a serious conversation with the owners about their priorities before asking us for money. If theyve got money to piss up a wall with this garbage wests tigers apparently dont need anyones hard earned money cause HBG seem to have more than enough to give away.
Holman Barnes Group take minority stake in Central Coast Mariners Men’s; formalise Women’s agreement
The Central Coast Mariners are pleased to confirm the completion of two important agreements that further strengthen the Club’s long-term stability. Holman Barnes Group (HBG) has formally joined the ownership structure as a minority investor in the entity responsible for...ccmariners.com.au
liltiger
Well-known member
If this gets up it will be our own personal miracle. The day the debunture system was blown up will go down as one of the biggest days in Wests Tigers existance.
liltiger
Well-known member
It smashes what can only be described as a closed door cartel that have total unadulterated control. It implements mandatory term limits, where voting can have people not only replaced so they can come back in 12 months, but totally removed. As is now there are factions in the joint always has been. But they do as they please whenever it suits them and all the political manouvering is done in the dark. Once members have the vote, the factions come out against each other and lobby the members, but its the members who have the final say. Even if a faction is voted in and they do a rubbish job, the term limits give the members the ability to remove them for other individuals or another faction. The vote puts all the power into the members hands and out from the hands of a current cartel who only play musical chairs and are answerable only to eachother.
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