2011 Melbourne Cup
- Thread starter innsaneink
- Start date
Marshall_magic
New member
@Tiger Watto said:
I read this last night, and threw it into a trifecta with 5 others (Americain, Jukebox, Dunedan, Cranach and Tullamore) for 20 bucks, and chucked 10 each way on it as well as 20 each way on Cranach. Laughing all the way to the bank after that one. Cheers for the tip. I hope everyone else picked a winner.
MacDougall
New member
Seriously though I keep replaying it and I don't even think Lucas Cranach beat Americain. What gives!?
Tiger_Watto
New member
@MacDougall said:
Agreed… I've watched it 4 times now and for the life of me, Americain ran over Lucas Cranach for 3rd...
On Americain, I'm still in awe over this horse... He got held up twice, once on the turn and once in the straight and was still coming home like a frieght train!!!
I hope we see this horse in 2012???
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@Tiger Watto said:
Yep reckon he picked up 8-10 lengths in the last furlong
Bloody good horse Haven't seen the replay for 3rd and 4th Still looking over the horizon waiting for the Happy's "kiss of death " stragglers to show up
But agree MacDougall and Watto you were robbed in my opinion of the vision I have seen
Tiger_Watto
New member
we will probably find Bill Harrigan was the Video Referee :smiley:
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@Tiger Watto said:
Well Watto who ever was on the stalls screwed up completely
The grey that was probably going to be the pacesetter missed the start by at least 3 lengths and barrier attendants and jockey were screaming No No No
That totally threw the whole race imo
I reckon I could of led the field on foot for the the first 1000 they were travelling so slow
innsaneink
Well-known member
Americain looked beautiful pre race in the mounting yard, a classy classy horse
Tiger_Watto
New member
@happy tiger said:
if it was Glass Harmonium, it also happened in the Cox Plate. Either way, no pace-setter was gona win this race on a good track and so much class…
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@Tiger Watto said:
Yeah Glass Harmonium (Thanks Watto) No wasn't saying it would Watto but that race would of been run a lot differently and not come down to a 600 metre sprint
@happy tiger said:
People are always screaming stuff out in the barriers! If the starter waited every time someone yelled out you'd never get the race going.
And pacesetters are of course banned in Australia :wink:
@Tiger Watto said:
He's staying in Australia. He'll race in the spring (probably set for the Australian Cup) and then go to stud here.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@Yossarian said:
I didn't mean pacesetter in that way but the horse that was expected to try and win from the start
Doesn't matter anyway it is fish and chips wrappings now
MacDougall
New member
Damn it I can't believe you agree with me, that makes it so much worse! So it looks like I (and Americain) have been straight up robbed. FFS!!!
Gary_Bakerloo
New member
@happy tiger said:
It is all over, but this does have some substance. Lucas Cranache stuffed the entire cup by taking off and delaying the start by 5 minutes. Glass Harmonium was forced to stand in the barriers for three minutes blind folded and missed the start. Tullamore reared up from the barrier as well.
It did impact the running of the race. They walked the first 1000m with all of the jockeys firstly looking for Glass harmonium (and Tullamore) to cross and when he did not arrive, they all pulled up as no one wanted to lead. Read Jim Cassidy's comments this morning.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
I have a question A report in todays Courier Mail says that Mourayan pulled up slightly lame after his second in the MacKinnon on Saturday
How can the owners , trainers and any other coneections be allowed to almost let a horse run in the biggest race on the Australian calender that is slightly lame
Centaur in response to your comment on Americain You are spot on
However his jockey has another take on it
He said "Americain was gone with 50 to go "
I think the jockey needs to watch the race If that is gone ,throw me in a wooden box and dig a six foot hole
How can the owners , trainers and any other coneections be allowed to almost let a horse run in the biggest race on the Australian calender that is slightly lame
Centaur in response to your comment on Americain You are spot on
However his jockey has another take on it
He said "Americain was gone with 50 to go "
I think the jockey needs to watch the race If that is gone ,throw me in a wooden box and dig a six foot hole
It pulled up slightly lame. It's not unusual. The vets (VRC vets) took a VERY close look as they're paranoid about late scratchings (even though it happened). From what I read, the horse was passed fit by the VRC but the connections decided to scratch it. Rest assured, a horse with any lameness affecting performance would have been removed from the field before final acceptances on Sat evening.
As for Americain, it was the weight. If it had 54.5 he probably wins. Very similar run to last year but he had another 3.5kg and was a year older. I don't think the ride was as bad as you guys seem to think.
As for Americain, it was the weight. If it had 54.5 he probably wins. Very similar run to last year but he had another 3.5kg and was a year older. I don't think the ride was as bad as you guys seem to think.
@Yossarian said:
I disagree with you on the Americain point. I don't think it was the weight - the horse was running on better than any of the others down the straight - it was flying. It simply got caught too far back and too wide. The jockey should have used one of the many opportunities to settle mid field to have a chance in running them down.
Just my opinion of course.
You may be right. Tbh I haven't watched a replay but on live vision it just seemed to die on its run at the end. It didn't look like he was taking much ground off the front 2 however the sectionals show he was finishing pretty fast (albeit narrowly).
Not sure how well this will come up but here are the sectionals. Americain's last 200m was the fastest but not by any great amount and Red Cadeaux was only 16th at the 400m (Americain was 20th). Americain has only run the final 200m 0.02 faster than the winner which is no great distance.
Americain's jockey may have left it a bit late but I still think he probably took longer to wind up due to the weight and thinking back on the Moonee Valley run he did a similar thing (i.e. took ages to hit speed).
I would hardly call him a certainty beaten though. I think even if Americain was ridden closer to the speed (and doing more work to get there/hold that spot) he still gets beaten by Dunaden.
Anyway here they are. Good luck reading them - source doc can be found here if not:
http://www.thoroughbrednews.com.au/Spring-Racing/default.aspx?id=56302
Field Sectional Times 1:51.01 1:38.41 1:25.86 1:13.33 1:00.41 48.12 36.18 24.33 12.39 Race Time
Finish Split Times 1800m 1600m 1400m 1200m 1000m 800m 600m 400m 200m 3:20.84
1 3 Dunaden (FR) 1:48.27 [15] 1:35.94 [15] 1:23.59 [15] 1:11.23 [15] 58.97 [15] 46.96 [15] 35.52 [13] 23.92 [11] 12.28 [ 4] 3:20.84
2 12 Red Cadeaux (GB) 1:47.94 [18] 1:35.67 [18] 1:23.38 [18] 1:10.94 [18] 58.80 [18] 46.72 [17] 35.42 [16] 23.92 [10] 12.37 [ 2] 3:20.84
3 9 Lucas Cranach (GER) 1:48.80 [12] 1:36.38 [12] 1:24.02 [13] 1:11.67 [14] 59.42 [11] 47.43 [11] 35.91 [10] 24.37 [ 4] 12.59 [ 1] 3:21.04
4 1 Americain (USA) 1:48.04 [19] 1:35.77 [19] 1:23.47 [20] 1:11.02 [20] 58.85 [20] 46.72 [21] 35.44 [20] 23.83 [18] 12.26 [ 7] 3:21.07
5 6 Manighar (FR) 1:50.60 [ 2] 1:37.83 [ 3] 1:25.43 [ 3] 1:12.99 [ 3] 1:00.37 [ 3] 48.21 [ 3] 36.44 [ 3] 24.74 [ 1] 12.71 [ 3] 3:21.25
6 15 Lost in the Moment (IRE) 1:49.33 [ 9] 1:36.81 [10] 1:24.44 [10] 1:12.06 [11] 59.55 [13] 47.54 [14] 35.94 [12] 24.42 [ 7] 12.62 [ 5] 3:21.25
7 8 Fox Hunt (IRE) 1:48.52 [16] 1:36.20 [16] 1:23.90 [17] 1:11.44 [17] 59.29 [16] 47.11 [19] 35.56 [21] 23.96 [19] 12.27 [12] 3:21.25
Not sure how well this will come up but here are the sectionals. Americain's last 200m was the fastest but not by any great amount and Red Cadeaux was only 16th at the 400m (Americain was 20th). Americain has only run the final 200m 0.02 faster than the winner which is no great distance.
Americain's jockey may have left it a bit late but I still think he probably took longer to wind up due to the weight and thinking back on the Moonee Valley run he did a similar thing (i.e. took ages to hit speed).
I would hardly call him a certainty beaten though. I think even if Americain was ridden closer to the speed (and doing more work to get there/hold that spot) he still gets beaten by Dunaden.
Anyway here they are. Good luck reading them - source doc can be found here if not:
http://www.thoroughbrednews.com.au/Spring-Racing/default.aspx?id=56302
Field Sectional Times 1:51.01 1:38.41 1:25.86 1:13.33 1:00.41 48.12 36.18 24.33 12.39 Race Time
Finish Split Times 1800m 1600m 1400m 1200m 1000m 800m 600m 400m 200m 3:20.84
1 3 Dunaden (FR) 1:48.27 [15] 1:35.94 [15] 1:23.59 [15] 1:11.23 [15] 58.97 [15] 46.96 [15] 35.52 [13] 23.92 [11] 12.28 [ 4] 3:20.84
2 12 Red Cadeaux (GB) 1:47.94 [18] 1:35.67 [18] 1:23.38 [18] 1:10.94 [18] 58.80 [18] 46.72 [17] 35.42 [16] 23.92 [10] 12.37 [ 2] 3:20.84
3 9 Lucas Cranach (GER) 1:48.80 [12] 1:36.38 [12] 1:24.02 [13] 1:11.67 [14] 59.42 [11] 47.43 [11] 35.91 [10] 24.37 [ 4] 12.59 [ 1] 3:21.04
4 1 Americain (USA) 1:48.04 [19] 1:35.77 [19] 1:23.47 [20] 1:11.02 [20] 58.85 [20] 46.72 [21] 35.44 [20] 23.83 [18] 12.26 [ 7] 3:21.07
5 6 Manighar (FR) 1:50.60 [ 2] 1:37.83 [ 3] 1:25.43 [ 3] 1:12.99 [ 3] 1:00.37 [ 3] 48.21 [ 3] 36.44 [ 3] 24.74 [ 1] 12.71 [ 3] 3:21.25
6 15 Lost in the Moment (IRE) 1:49.33 [ 9] 1:36.81 [10] 1:24.44 [10] 1:12.06 [11] 59.55 [13] 47.54 [14] 35.94 [12] 24.42 [ 7] 12.62 [ 5] 3:21.25
7 8 Fox Hunt (IRE) 1:48.52 [16] 1:36.20 [16] 1:23.90 [17] 1:11.44 [17] 59.29 [16] 47.11 [19] 35.56 [21] 23.96 [19] 12.27 [12] 3:21.25
