2019 Coaching saga -Thread

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All i can say is if you take the time to try and understand why the entire rugby league community are saying Ivans position is untenable you might also start to understand why Wests Tigers fans who have been through hell and back for the last few years have a massive problem with this.

This is not much different to the Jason taylor situation where most could see he didnt have what it takes to be an NRL coach but certain personality types were happy to keep the status quo and ride it out.

Its all semantics anyhow, Justin Pascoe and the board will not let Ivan run this club while his priorities are elsewhere. Just will not happen!

He is gone. its just a matter of the details.

There is a huge difference between JT and Ivan…Ivan has done a lot more in 12 months at this club than JT could do in 12 years...
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If people are up in arms about what is happening and the rugby league community cant handle it,then they should follow another sport...this is the world of NRL as we know it,the big dollars have made a huge impact on our game and it will continue unless contractual agreements are made to be honoured by players and coaches alike....the contracts are the joke and how they are manipulated with get out clauses etc etc..
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Also Patriot,if Ivan is here for the remainder of his contract and is fulfilling his obligations of his agreement,then why is his tenure untenable....he would have my support and I will pay my membership as well...I hope he coaches the team well,we surprised many teams last year and hopefully it continues next year under Ivans coaching...

My other final point on this would be " if we draw Penrith twice in the 2019 draw , do you have 100% confidence in Ivan Cleary "

We aren't a club that can afford to be dropping two games before they are even played …...

So the imagination starts to run wild…why would Ivan not coach our team to be the best they can,if they get beat fair and square,why wouldnt I have faith in Ivan...or are you saying that he would want our team to let Nathans team win...you know,silly penalties,dropped balls,forward passes and offside plays...fairdinkum some people should get in the real world..

Our tactics in the Penrith game this season were shocking , remember how much ball we had the 1st 20 minutes

Our set up was good , our tactics in the final 10 metres were completely wrong ….................... just saying
 
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All i can say is if you take the time to try and understand why the entire rugby league community are saying Ivans position is untenable you might also start to understand why Wests Tigers fans who have been through hell and back for the last few years have a massive problem with this.

This is not much different to the Jason taylor situation where most could see he didnt have what it takes to be an NRL coach but certain personality types were happy to keep the status quo and ride it out.

Its all semantics anyhow, Justin Pascoe and the board will not let Ivan run this club while his priorities are elsewhere. Just will not happen!

He is gone. its just a matter of the details.

There is a huge difference between JT and Ivan…Ivan has done a lot more in 12 months at this club than JT could do in 12 years...
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If people are up in arms about what is happening and the rugby league community cant handle it,then they should follow another sport...this is the world of NRL as we know it,the big dollars have made a huge impact on our game and it will continue unless contractual agreements are made to be honoured by players and coaches alike....the contracts are the joke and how they are manipulated with get out clauses etc etc..
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Also Patriot,if Ivan is here for the remainder of his contract and is fulfilling his obligations of his agreement,then **why is his tenure untenable.**...he would have my support and I will pay my membership as well...I hope he coaches the team well,we surprised many teams last year and hopefully it continues next year under Ivans coaching...

As i said in my last post :unamused:

All i can say is if you take the time to try and understand why people are saying it is untenable you might start seeing it differently.

Dont turn it back on me as a question and get all uppity.

Try taking to the time to see why people are upset.

I didnt turn anything on you Patriot,I can have my say and give an opinion just as you do…

Firstly,people can say it is untenable as much as they like,they cant see the future or what is happening at the WTs behind closed doors...its just their opinion...
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Secondly,people are upset because things arent going the way they want it to go..Ivan can do what he likes when he likes...it his career and life...

**If you and others have had a close view on the NRL over the last few years you would understand that this sort of thing happens regularly....**

I just dont let emotions get in the way ...it is only a sport....

Look, have a good day True Tiger, best of luck to you

I cant argue that kind of logic.
 
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Odds are that cleary is coaching Wests tigers throughout 2019/2020.

That would be the absolute worst scenario. His position is completely untenable. I’d prefer literally anyone but Cleary to coach us in 19.
 
Can not possibly afford to have another year of controversy at this club and thats all Ivan will offer now.
A team can not progress or perform under those circumstances it has been proven time and time again - and Ivan cant rely on written statements when the media come after him which is what is going to happen.
This is not going to go away until Cleary is coaching his son, and if you think its not stalling everything we are aiming for I think you are kidding yourself.
I hope Cleary has asked for a release and I hope we are in the process of replacing him.
 
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There is a huge difference between JT and Ivan…Ivan has done a lot more in 12 months at this club than JT could do in 12 years...
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If people are up in arms about what is happening and the rugby league community cant handle it,then they should follow another sport...this is the world of NRL as we know it,the big dollars have made a huge impact on our game and it will continue unless contractual agreements are made to be honoured by players and coaches alike....the contracts are the joke and how they are manipulated with get out clauses etc etc..
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Also Patriot,if Ivan is here for the remainder of his contract and is fulfilling his obligations of his agreement,then **why is his tenure untenable.**...he would have my support and I will pay my membership as well...I hope he coaches the team well,we surprised many teams last year and hopefully it continues next year under Ivans coaching...

As i said in my last post :unamused:

All i can say is if you take the time to try and understand why people are saying it is untenable you might start seeing it differently.

Dont turn it back on me as a question and get all uppity.

Try taking to the time to see why people are upset.

I didnt turn anything on you Patriot,I can have my say and give an opinion just as you do…

Firstly,people can say it is untenable as much as they like,they cant see the future or what is happening at the WTs behind closed doors...its just their opinion...
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Secondly,people are upset because things arent going the way they want it to go..Ivan can do what he likes when he likes...it his career and life...

**If you and others have had a close view on the NRL over the last few years you would understand that this sort of thing happens regularly....**

I just dont let emotions get in the way ...it is only a sport....

Look, have a good day True Tiger, best of luck to you

I cant argue that kind of logic.

You have a good day as well Patriot,Im just used to going through turmoil regularly as a Tigers supporter in the Balmain days and now as a WTs supporter and member…I have been through numerous let downs and now just let it flow until it is resolved one way or another....as I said I don't let emotions get in the way anymore...Im over it...
 
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As i said in my last post :unamused:

All i can say is if you take the time to try and understand why people are saying it is untenable you might start seeing it differently.

Dont turn it back on me as a question and get all uppity.

Try taking to the time to see why people are upset.

I didnt turn anything on you Patriot,I can have my say and give an opinion just as you do…

Firstly,people can say it is untenable as much as they like,they cant see the future or what is happening at the WTs behind closed doors...its just their opinion...
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Secondly,people are upset because things arent going the way they want it to go..Ivan can do what he likes when he likes...it his career and life...

**If you and others have had a close view on the NRL over the last few years you would understand that this sort of thing happens regularly....**

I just dont let emotions get in the way ...it is only a sport....

Look, have a good day True Tiger, best of luck to you

I cant argue that kind of logic.

You have a good day as well Patriot,Im just used to going through turmoil regularly as a Tigers supporter in the Balmain days and now as a WTs supporter and member…I have been through numerous let downs and now just let it flow until it is resolved one way or another....as I said I don't let emotions get in the way anymore...Im over it...

And as i said with the Jason Taylor comment we all have different personalities. Some are happy to just accept the status quo.

Im aware of it and dont have an issue with people being different it, hope you do the same.
 
So, let me get this straight.
What we know from what has been said publicly; Ivan will will fulfil his contract here and Bennett will fulfil his contract in Brisbane.
Everything else is media guesswork and someone driving a rumour mill that seemingly many WT fans are sucking up in great gobs as the unmitigated truth.
There are even some, creating conspiracy theories that Ivan was never really sacked from Penrith.
Whooo hooo.
All this against a backdrop of Roosters, Broncos, Storm, _________etc rorting the cap and making the whole competition a joke. Referees favouring big name teams over others, corrupt officials in NRL central. Boneheadbenny commenting in the media.
WE DONT STAND A CHANCE!

….. and by the way I understand the Cleary's are on holiday.
 
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Can not possibly afford to have another year of controversy at this club and thats all Ivan will offer now.
A team can not progress or perform under those circumstances it has been proven time and time again - and Ivan cant rely on written statements when the media come after him which is what is going to happen.
This is not going to go away until Cleary is coaching his son, and if you think its not stalling everything we are aiming for I think you are kidding yourself.
I hope Cleary has asked for a release and I hope we are in the process of replacing him.

100% agree, we would be a media circus for all the time Cleary stays, he has to go, he wants to go, so lets make the best of the situation, either Bennett or Maguire, but just get it done.
 
Oh the irony. Whilst I too reckon the odds of Cleary going would be similar to that offered on that wonder horse Wink, I'm gobsmacked by the number of people that see it the same way, when so many wanted to stick up for Ivan a couple of months back.

Back then, EVERY bit of information, some of it direct from the respective horses mouths pointed to Ivan having been trying to head off early to the foot of the mountains, yet so many people wanted to argue the fact. Here we are now, again with plenty of smoke, yet still pure speculation of him signing there for 2021 and many of those same people are taking it as gospel.

Go figure.
 
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Oh the irony. Whilst I too reckon the odds of Cleary going would be similar to that offered on that wonder horse Wink, I'm gobsmacked by the number of people that see it the same way, when so many wanted to stick up for Ivan a couple of months back.

Back then, EVERY bit of information, some of it direct from the respective horses mouths pointed to Ivan having been trying to head off early to the foot of the mountains, yet so many people wanted to argue the fact. Here we are now, again with plenty of smoke, yet still pure speculation of him signing there for 2021 and many of those same people are taking it as gospel.

Go figure.

Well Ivan has really done nothing to quell it. Add in the re-signing by Nathan at Penrith and that’s where we are.
 
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Over $700k we paid from our 2017 cap for Farah to play at souths, plus Siro's money to manly cost us close to 1 million of our cap, JT you moron

Complete rubbish and since Gallagher doesnt know what Im on about, Ill explain it one more time…..slowly.

Gallaghers point he is trying to push, is that Pascoe was not smart in allowing Farah to play for the Tigers and in fact it cost the Tigers $$$$$. This is rubbish.

The previous administration ( to Pascoe) under Grant Mayers leadership decided that they couldnt afford and couldnt wear under the cap $ 600k of Robbie Farahs salary in 2014 & 2015\. With Farahs (gracious) agreement, all agreed to defer payment of this money and it was back ended in his contract. In 2017 this money was owed to Farah and was paid to him. It was supposed to come out of the Tigers cap in 2014 & 2015, it came out in 2017\. This money was payable to to Farah and would have come out of the Tigers salary cap if Farah played for the Tigers, Souffs, Parra or if he retired and never played again.

The Tigers tried to get rid of Farah PRIOR to Pascoe https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/wests-tigers-set-to-announce-justin-pascoe-as-new-club-boss-after-he-quits-penrith-panthers-20150903-gjenna.htmlarriving. Under Pascoes leadership, Farah did indeed leave to go to Souffs. If he did not, he would have cost the Tigers the $600k he was owed PLUS the $600k for that years salary. Therefore he would have cost the Tigers $1.2M out of the Tigers pocket AND out of the salary cap. Pascoe allowed him to move on and signed a player for less than $600k and saved the Tigers a heap of money. I dont understand what part of this you dont understand? Yes there was some incompetent management in this but it was under Mayers leadership when they back ended Farahs money, nothing to do with Pascoe,

Correct. He played for souths and it came out of our 2017 cap. We then re-signed him.

Correct and in doing so, Justin Pascoe saved the Tigers a heap of $$$ both out of their bank account and the salary cap. What was your point again?

it says something about character of our 'ex-legend, born again WT' when our club, decided to kick him out
 
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Oh the irony. Whilst I too reckon the odds of Cleary going would be similar to that offered on that wonder horse Wink, I'm gobsmacked by the number of people that see it the same way, when so many wanted to stick up for Ivan a couple of months back.

Back then, EVERY bit of information, some of it direct from the respective horses mouths pointed to Ivan having been trying to head off early to the foot of the mountains, yet so many people wanted to argue the fact. Here we are now, again with plenty of smoke, yet still pure speculation of him signing there for 2021 and many of those same people are taking it as gospel.

Go figure.

Well Ivan has really done nothing to quell it. Add in the re-signing by Nathan at Penrith and that’s where we are.

Correct.

Just some wishy washy talk. Followed by Nathan signing with Penrith, followed by reports of him signing for 2021.

End of game.
 
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I am a betting man and I would say that Ivan Cleary is at least a 95% chance of coaching the West tigers in 2019 and 2020\. Time for everybody to look for another shocking revelation from the journos.

I'll take those odds of 20-1 Where shall I send my fiver?
 
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There is a huge difference between JT and Ivan…Ivan has done a lot more in 12 months at this club than JT could do in 12 years...

Ivan may be a better coach, but the results are the same: Got us to 9th, then everything went pear-shaped.
 
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Just as a favour to you 851.
Just to help with your your English .
The definition of “ we”, is

“A speaker referring to himself along with others,”

As Bennett wont accept anything but a Coaching job,
I’d take a wild guess that he means that very thing
Don’t bother with an apology about lying,
Just learn what a word means next time before you jump in and make a fool of yourself

I think perhaps the point they are making is that Wayne's comment about "we will be back" is equivalent to Ivan's comment "I intend to see out my contract".

Bennett could have used stronger language, perhaps by choice, perhaps by accident, and the lack of stronger accent leaves the door ajar for speculation.

Now Bennett isn't going to get up there and say "they will be back next year, but just so we aren't clear, I will not be", he simply would never say such a thing whilst still technically employed for 2019 at Broncos. Same as Ivan would never say "I will absolutely see out my contract with Tigers no matter what circumstances arise".

Given that a journo later asked "have you held discussions with the Tigers" and Bennett replied "not yet", it is another non-committal response.

The main difference here is Bennett is factually definitely publicly being dumped by the Broncos, whereas there is no confirmed information about Ivan's future, nor have Tigers confirmed they would not extend him.

He clearly stated that he would be back next year and untill someone says differently, thats the situation, it wasnt me who tried to play around with words . and got caught.

So, until either the Tigers, Ivan, Penrith, Broncs or Maquire just to name a few….. say anything else, .., we only have the statements from Ivan and Bennett both saying that they will be honouring their contracts next year,
Im not saying that they wont,
I dont know,neither do you , or anyone here
but neither has said there not staying put, and there's been nothing substantial said anywhere, that they wont
everything else is pure guesswork

I can't argue with that.
 
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There is a huge difference between JT and Ivan…Ivan has done a lot more in 12 months at this club than JT could do in 12 years...

Ivan may be a better coach, but the results are the same: Got us to 9th, then everything went pear-shaped.

A big difference is that Ivan didn’t put us in contention for a wooden spoon, and bore the tits off us as well
 
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I still cannot understand the hysteria on here because Ivan is leaving when his contract is finished in 2 years time..

That is all that we have to go on at the moment,nothing more nothing less,the rest is speculation and emotions running high..

So what if Ivan coaches the Panthers in 2021,as long as he professionally coaches the team and continues his great work that he has done so far at this club until his contract is up,is all we can ask….calling him names and the like wont really make a difference if he is still here and doing a good job..

This is the world of NRL,a high career changing business,one day your the best player since Dally Messenger,the next your out with a career ending injury...
One day your the best coach to have ever graced the football park...next your sacked because of a number of reasons if any...

Contractual agreements are like toilet paper and what its used for these days....Money speaks volumes more ….

If Ivan goes next year or is released,sobeit,I wont lose sleep over it...there will be another coach employed to take his place and the carnival keeps going and going and going...

Welcome to the world of rugby league as we know it today....theres always a story...

Simply put TT but remember a number of players have already said that they would find it awkward if their coach had already signed with another club in two years time.

Imagine if a player makes a remark of “here comes the next Penrith coach” during the preseason. IC gets upset and disciplines said player. My guess is the other players will get mighty upset about it and IC will have certainly lost the dressing room.

If IC has signed with Penrith for 2021 then it really is an impossible position for the club.

Also, no matter what Penrith say publicly, privately they wouldn’t want to wait two years for their next contracted coach.

X2 TT

Who were the players who’ve said that, I’ve only seen or heard Brooks say anything , like that, and I believe that (; alledgedly )he said that it could, (not would ) be a distraction , just a generic answer from a player who didn’t to say anything.
 
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A bike rider in india has a vehicle pull out from his path. He comes of his bike.
He is ok and so is the other vehicle. But his bike hits a local traders shop, destroying his milk, his cow, all his wears and his business is ruined.

The Wests Tigers feel like that trader. How did we get into this mess?

That being said:
We upgrade Ivan for Wayne Bennett.
We keep Brooks, ok Nathan is better but no Origin dramas.
This may not be the worst thing to happen here. Particularly if we do a deal to release Cleary for 2020, Wayne sees out 2019 at Brisbane then comes here. Darius Boyd is too old to come and play and we get access to Brisbane Juniors.

Does that mean that we are going to get an unlucky Indian bike rider with a cow, to Coach us next season, sounds good!
 

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