9/11 non-conspiracy

[Yossarian]

At the end of the day, what is the motive to fake this attack? The WTC had already been attacked by this point. The "evidence" of conspiracies for 9/11 never adds up and falls apart pretty quickly in the face of actual evidence.

i heard a theory that billions of dollars went missing and the only records of where those funds went were in wtc building 7 and in the part of the pentagon that got blown up. its probably b.s. though. i dont remember where i heard that from

That one actually has a large grain of truth in it! As I understand it, WTC7 had a whole bunch of evidence relating to securities transactions that went up in flames. For a lot of it there were no other copies. Looks bad but that's how it is. Having worked in an Australian security agency it's not unusual to keep one set of evidence in a single location. Mainly it's a logistical thing - cost, security of evidence etc. So yeah that bit actually is true I believe!

The Pentagon thing is b.s. as far as I know. As far as I know the area of the Pentagon that was destroyed was fairly nondescript (for that type of work anyway) and was actually being renovated at the time (or just before).

 

[jais_tigez]

Maybe it's because I'm watching the videos on an iPhone yoss but I can't see anything that resembles a plane. Like I said before I don't doubt that this was done by murderous scumbags but some questions remain unanswered. How does someone fly a plane what 15 20 feet off the ground at near top speed without being affected by turbulence? How can they be that precise that they can hit a target 26 feet high at roughly 400 mph, and yet only have limited training in a flight simulator. No obvious marks on the lawns of the pentagon from the plane? I know there were numerous eye witnesses but what about the witnesses that said the plane was shaped like a humpback whale at the front, therefore resembling a military drone? Why are their statements immediately discarded but the others are taken as gospel? No doubt it was a tragedy of epic proportions but some things just don't add up
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[alien]

I know there were numerous eye witnesses but what about the witnesses that said the plane was shaped like a humpback whale at the front, therefore resembling a military drone? Why are their statements immediately discarded but the others are taken as gospel? No doubt it was a tragedy of epic proportions but some things just don't add up

one of these???


 

[jais_tigez]

Yep. Numerous other eye witnesses also stated it was a single engined jet with the engine situated at the rear near the tail fin
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[alien]

Yep. Numerous other eye witnesses also stated it was a single engined jet with the engine situated at the rear near the tail fin

did they say that on the actual day of the attacks?

some people in newyork also said that the planes they saw had no windows and werent that big. sometimes people dont see everything because it happens so fast

 

[GNR4LIFE]

what i don't understand with the Military plane conspiracy's are if Military planes are what were used, how do you explain the passengers on the American Airline flights that were supposedly used? did they just disapear into thin air?

wouldn't surprize me if the US Government had prior knowledge though

 

[GNR4LIFE]

what i don't understand with the Military plane conspiracy's are if Military planes are what were used, how do you explain the passengers on the American Airline flights that were supposedly used? did they just disapear into thin air?

wouldn't surprize me if the US Government had prior knowledge though

 

[GNR4LIFE]

what i don't understand with the Military plane conspiracy's are if Military planes are what were used, how do you explain the passengers on the American Airline flights that were supposedly used? did they just disapear into thin air?

wouldn't surprize me if the US Government had prior knowledge though

 

[alien]

what i don't understand with the Military plane conspiracy's are if Military planes are what were used, how do you explain the passengers on the American Airline flights that were supposedly used? did they just disapear into thin air?

wouldn't surprize me if the US Government had prior knowledge though

some people probably believe they were shot down over the atlantic ocean or landed at some secret airfield

some people on the planes were on phones and said they could see buildings though

 

[jais_tigez]

I don't know. I'm not suggesting that there is some elaborate cover up where the passengers were murdered prior to the events by the government or anything. It would have to be the most well organized operation involving hundreds or possibly thousands of people, and I don't think it's possible. The only event from that day I'm suss on is the attack at the pentagon. People saying the planes were holograms going into the towers is in my opinion ridiculous, although there is a interesting video on YouTube where the left wing of the 2nd plane disappears before it enters the building, but that's prob just clever editing.
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[Yossarian]

Maybe it's because I'm watching the videos on an iPhone yoss but I can't see anything that resembles a plane. Like I said before I don't doubt that this was done by murderous scumbags but some questions remain unanswered. How does someone fly a plane what 15 20 feet off the ground at near top speed without being affected by turbulence? How can they be that precise that they can hit a target 26 feet high at roughly 400 mph, and yet only have limited training in a flight simulator. No obvious marks on the lawns of the pentagon from the plane? I know there were numerous eye witnesses but what about the witnesses that said the plane was shaped like a humpback whale at the front, therefore resembling a military drone? Why are their statements immediately discarded but the others are taken as gospel? No doubt it was a tragedy of epic proportions but some things just don't add up
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Again I'd say the biggest problem the conspiracy theorist have is the people on the plane. They're not names they're people who had families and they were killed in this attack. Are the relatives liars? You can't see the plane clearly for the same reason you don't see it well on the Pentagon footage - it's moving too fast for the cameras to pick it up. They're just CCTV cameras. Why did people misidentify it? No idea. Plenty of others identified it as a plane, The plane hit the ground before it struck the building. Turbulence is not going to stop the plane from going forward. Anyway there are a number of reports based on established information:
http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/foia/9_11/AAL77_fdr.pdf
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

Again you have to ask what is the motive for this so called fake attack? There may be some gaps in the official record but the counter (conspiracy) theory makes a lot less sense.

No obvious marks on the lawn?


 

[GNR4LIFE]

I don't know. I'm not suggesting that there is some elaborate cover up where the passengers were murdered prior to the events by the government or anything. It would have to be the most well organized operation involving hundreds or possibly thousands of people, and I don't think it's possible. The only event from that day I'm suss on is the attack at the pentagon. People saying the planes were holograms going into the towers is in my opinion ridiculous, although there is a interesting video on YouTube where the left wing of the 2nd plane disappears before it enters the building, but that's prob just clever editing.
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alot of 9/11 conspiracy theories on youtube contain heavy editing. I saw a clip the other day about a 'no plane' theory. It showed news footage of the second tower getting hit, only minus the plane. It only showed an explosion. Obviously trying to support the theory of no planes being involved. Now if you go on youtube, you will find 50 clips of different News channels catching the second plane hitting, yet some knuckle head chooses 1 clip, edits out the plane hitting, so all you see is an explosion, and turns around and tries to treat the viewer like an idiot by telling you that there were no planes :crazy

i don't mind hearing conspiracy theories if they are credible, because i find it interesting to weigh up all the facts, but a theory like the one i mentioned above is just idiotic

 

[jais_tigez]

Yeah I watched that no plane theory video the other day and just shook my head. There really are some idiotic people around
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[jais_tigez]

I also don't buy into the wt7 conspiracy theory, people talking about how that fire chief or whoever it was saying pull the building. The events that were unfolding that day were unprecedented and I can forgive someone for a small error in grammar. People saying he meant to demolish the building prob don't understand the trauma and stress that people were under that day, so he can be forgiven for making a mistake with what he was saying on air
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[alien]

I also don't buy into the wt7 conspiracy theory, people talking about how that fire chief or whoever it was saying pull the building. The events that were unfolding that day were unprecedented and I can forgive someone for a small error in grammar. People saying he meant to demolish the building prob don't understand the trauma and stress that people were under that day, so he can be forgiven for making a mistake with what he was saying on air

people got confused because pulling a building means taking it down with explosives, but it also means getting everyone out of a building

 

[Yossarian]

I don't know. I'm not suggesting that there is some elaborate cover up where the passengers were murdered prior to the events by the government or anything. It would have to be the most well organized operation involving hundreds or possibly thousands of people, and I don't think it's possible. The only event from that day I'm suss on is the attack at the pentagon. People saying the planes were holograms going into the towers is in my opinion ridiculous, although there is a interesting video on YouTube where the left wing of the 2nd plane disappears before it enters the building, but that's prob just clever editing.
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alot of 9/11 conspiracy theories on youtube contain heavy editing. I saw a clip the other day about a 'no plane' theory. It showed news footage of the second tower getting hit, only minus the plane. It only showed an explosion. Obviously trying to support the theory of no planes being involved. Now if you go on youtube, you will find 50 clips of different News channels catching the second plane hitting, yet some knuckle head chooses 1 clip, edits out the plane hitting, so all you see is an explosion, and turns around and tries to treat the viewer like an idiot by telling you that there were no planes :crazy

i don't mind hearing conspiracy theories if they are credible, because i find it interesting to weigh up all the facts, but a theory like the one i mentioned above is just idiotic

That's it. Rather than find parts of the official record (by this I mean the actual government reports based on evidence) they take a single bit of footage or a quote, twist it out of context and run with it. As you say they will run footage that supports their nutbag idea despite the existence of numerous other bits of footage which proves them wrong. Everyone goes for the bits that there is the least evidence of. If there was no footage of the planes crashing into the WTC towers they'd say that was fake. And even then we get claptrap like holograms or controlled explosions. Controlled explosions? Why? Two passenger planes flew into it! Please.

Then we get to the Pentagon attack that took place after the WTC attacks. Even though it is well documented the plane took off, who was on the plane, that it disappeared from radar, that people identified an American Airlines plane flying towards the Pentagon, that CCTV footage shows the impact, that the CVR (black box) was found at the crash site, that parts of the plane were found on the lawn, they ignore this and just stick with the fact there is no clear footage of the plane crashing. Why would there be? Not every square inch of the USA is under constant video surveillance.

At the end of the day you have to weigh the evidence - the conspiracy theorists base their arguments on what is missing - this isn't here so there must be something to that. They rarely run any independent evidence. You rarely see a well developed theory from planning to execution based on evidence.

I look forward to the JFK conspiracy thread opening soon…

 

[alien]

oh there was definitely a plane that hit the second tower. i think the only reason someone on the ground said there was no plane is because they were probably at an angle opposite from where the plane was coming from.

 

[alien]

i still say im the biggest jinx in history. i only got to newyork 2 or 3 weeks before it happened and all hell broke loose :frowning:


 

[GNR4LIFE]

i still say im the biggest jinx in history. i only got to newyork 2 or 3 weeks before it happened and all hell broke loose :frowning:


you were in NYC on September 11?

 

[alien]

yeah you could say that