A crucial period for Madge...

@GNR4LIFE said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200185) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200182) said:
@GNR4LIFE said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200176) said:
Madge has to own it, which I’m sure he does.But all his defenders have to as well. Anyone that tries to say he’s still cleaning Ivan’s mess needs to accept that this is his squad. He might not have signed all 30 players, but it’s the majority of the squad, As a coach, unless you’ve been at a club for at least 3-4 years, not all the squad will have been signed by the current coach. It’s just one of the hazards of the job where you are going to have to deal with another coaches leftovers. You have to it make it work. Different if he had no cap space to do anything like Potter and JT.

Erm, he’s had barely any cap space. He IS still cleaning Ivan’s mess, millions of our cap is still tied up in Ivan’s mess. That’s why I won’t judge him until he’s been here three of four years like you said as that’s when it’ll properly be his squad

So he has a pass for 3-4 years?

Not a pass at all, he’s not perfect and he’s made mistakes, but he can’t be ruled out until he’s had a proper crack at building his squad. Seems fair enough if by then we are still struggling he probably isn’t the answer. Hard to know how long you give a coach sometimes
 
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200188) said:
@GNR4LIFE said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200185) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200182) said:
@GNR4LIFE said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200176) said:
Madge has to own it, which I’m sure he does.But all his defenders have to as well. Anyone that tries to say he’s still cleaning Ivan’s mess needs to accept that this is his squad. He might not have signed all 30 players, but it’s the majority of the squad, As a coach, unless you’ve been at a club for at least 3-4 years, not all the squad will have been signed by the current coach. It’s just one of the hazards of the job where you are going to have to deal with another coaches leftovers. You have to it make it work. Different if he had no cap space to do anything like Potter and JT.

Erm, he’s had barely any cap space. He IS still cleaning Ivan’s mess, millions of our cap is still tied up in Ivan’s mess. That’s why I won’t judge him until he’s been here three of four years like you said as that’s when it’ll properly be his squad

So he has a pass for 3-4 years?

Not a pass at all, he’s not perfect and he’s made mistakes, but he can’t be ruled out until he’s had a proper crack at building his squad. Seems fair enough if by then we are still struggling he probably isn’t the answer. Hard to know how long you give a coach sometimes

I think all you want to see out of a coach is improvement. We’re not seeing that. As for building a squad, no coach gets that luxury. All coaches have to work with what they’re given.
 
We have to play the long game and the Tigers are. We criticise them for not holding standards with players now criticise a coach who does what we asked for. We won’t win anything until our best players or a majority are juniors that want to play for the Tigers. Most of the strong clubs of not all do this and it gives them the license to attract gun players in free agency.

Players will get paid by some team they mostly want to win.
 
@TYGA said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200196) said:
We have to play the long game and the Tigers are. We criticise them for not holding standards with players now criticise a coach who does what we asked for. We won’t win anything until our best players or a majority are juniors that want to play for the Tigers. Most of the strong clubs of not all do this and it gives them the license to attract gun players in free agency.

Players will get paid by some team they mostly want to win.

Agree.
I also don’t think it’s helpful questioning a coach’s tenure after every loss.
Especially one like Madge. We are lucky to have him IMO.
 
@avocadoontoast said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200141) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200134) said:
@hobbo1 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200131) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200102) said:
@hobbo1 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200086) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200067) said:
@hobbo1 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200049) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200027) said:
@hobbo1 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200016) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1199990) said:
@Tiger_Steve said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1199977) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1199890) said:
There’s no coach turning this team around in less than 3 years. Madge doing the best with the crap he has been given. His recruitment has been smart **and the club as a whole is building,** unfortunately a tough draw and some poor performances will not make us look good on the ladder come the end of the year but as a whole I think the club is building the right way.

He’s going about things a whole lot better than our last couple coaches. He’s playing the long game which takes patience but in our current predicament it’s the best option. We can’t afford a new coach, extend Madge one more season and see how he goes.

Desperately need to keep cleaning out the rubbish from our cap, he’s trying his best and will continue to try. I’m happy he’s tough and willing to yell and drop players, a soft coach wouldn’t be able to change our culture I think

He’s not perfect and has made mistakes but he’s our best option

Seriously Josh. Can you please pinpoint and articulate exactly where and how we are building as a club because mate all I see are the same performances, the same words, the same excuses, the same situations roll out every week every year. There is no evidence that I see that we are building. We are doing stuff - yes. But we are not building. In fact it could be argued we are regressing.

We are investing in youth, cleaning up our salary cap, new training facilities coming, Madge’s recruitment has been good, training at a higher level than previous years, while there’s been hiccups we have showed more heart and resilience in some perfomances this year then we have the last 3 seasons.

Madge is playing the long game and it will take a long time, the steps he has taken are the best ones you could do. He’s been a lot smarter than previous coaches and has a genuine eye on the long term future of the club which can be seen by trying to realign with St Greg’s among other things.

Unfortunately we will probably end up 10th or 11th on the ladder. Hard draw and some poor performances have lead us there but there isn’t an instant fix to our problems

Jennings say hi ?
Also playing Doohey at the back when blind Freddy can see he ain’t a fullback

Madge extended Brooks who’s useless

Gave Lawrence another year who’s useless ..

Gives momirovski another 2 years who’s useless

Gives a total Gronk the captaincy who’s useless

The list goes on ...
Even Taylorball was more effective than this crap !

I can’t take you seriously if you think Taylor is a better option than Madge.

Jennings was a good signing at the time who didn’t work out, not every signing will, you expect the coach to be perfect? Doueihi may not be a permanent fullback but is our best option at the moment. When brooks was resigned he was back to back player of the year. Momirovski is a solid player. Can’t agree with re-signing Lawrence and the Mbye captaincy might not seem right to us but Madge has his reasons.

Look at the bigger picture mate. Madge is working towards slowly building us into a good club which is the only option, and I’m pretty sure the club will stick by him. Impossible to expect instant results

Non of the players we’ve mentioned will take us to the big dance ...
Madge is pissing into the wind and he knows it !
We have Brooks until 2023
Mbye until 2022
So what does he do with them ??

He can’t even get them to do the basics right ...
Tackle
Line speed
Kick chase

Two weeks ago we did all those things very well and had been for quite a few weeks. While we’ve been poor the last two weeks let’s not act like they’ve been like this all season.

You seem to have a very short memory a lot of the time. When things are bad you forget the good that was not too long ago, I hope you don’t view your whole life like that

Madge is a poor man manager and the majority of the run on side are his signings ...
So tell me what’s he going to do with Mbye and Brooks ?

With Mbye? No idea. He’s on huge money and I doubt anyone takes his contract. I can guarantee Madge would much rather have that money to spend elsewhere. If we sign a better centre then Mbye can be a bench utility.

Madge will give brooks another chance. He is a fan of brooksy and while his form has been down this year he is a good half when at his best.

I don’t think Madge is a poor man manager it just depends on the player. All the players say he’s very honest with the players and expects a lot out of them. Not every player will appreciate the honesty and will take it as an insult but some players will take it and work on things they need to. Most players seem pretty happy with Madge

And in the mean time we’ll blunder and fumble for the rest of this year and next year only to see quality players sign with other teams because we’re a basket case

We don’t sign big name players and we won’t until we start making finals unfortunately. Gotta keep unearthing youngsters/guys who need a shot at first grade.

Need to look at England and Fiji more too! It works so well for other clubs and we never seem to do it.

Why were the Titans able to sign Tino and Fifita and the Dogs able to sign Luke Thompson and Cotric but we can’t? Theyre worse than we are and we are the team with the premiership winning coach

It’s a question I don’t think anyone will ever be able to answer satisfactorily. One could say the Gold Coast is an attractive area for players to want to live in, not so Belmore though, so I don’t know how they are able to snare the good players, remembering they also picked up DWZ and CHN last year as well.
 
We’ve gone through too many coaches for this to all STILL be the coaches fault. Maybe the surrounding support systems? I don’t know.. These exact same performances and issues have been discussed for years, despite going through maybe the most coaches of any club in the NRL over this period. The only thing that hasn’t changed is a classless roster, which unfortunately now needs to be rebuilt AGAIN (thanks Cleary). But by all means let’s start from scratch with another new coach and repeat for the next decade..
 
@bigsiro said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200200) said:
@TYGA said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200196) said:
We have to play the long game and the Tigers are. We criticise them for not holding standards with players now criticise a coach who does what we asked for. We won’t win anything until our best players or a majority are juniors that want to play for the Tigers. Most of the strong clubs of not all do this and it gives them the license to attract gun players in free agency.

Players will get paid by some team they mostly want to win.

Agree.
I also don’t think it’s helpful questioning a coach’s tenure after every loss.
Especially one like Madge. We are lucky to have him IMO.

Completely agree
 
Yeah, well that was disappointing waking up to. I think some supporters need reminders on some of the scorelines with other coaches..................I don't think the coach is the problem

https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seasons/nrl-2014/wests-tigers/summary.html
https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seasons/nrl-2015/wests-tigers/summary.html
https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seasons/nrl-2016/wests-tigers/summary.html
https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seasons/nrl-2017/wests-tigers/summary.html
https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seasons/nrl-2018/wests-tigers/summary.html
 
@avocadoontoast said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200194) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200188) said:
@GNR4LIFE said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200185) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200182) said:
@GNR4LIFE said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200176) said:
Madge has to own it, which I’m sure he does.But all his defenders have to as well. Anyone that tries to say he’s still cleaning Ivan’s mess needs to accept that this is his squad. He might not have signed all 30 players, but it’s the majority of the squad, As a coach, unless you’ve been at a club for at least 3-4 years, not all the squad will have been signed by the current coach. It’s just one of the hazards of the job where you are going to have to deal with another coaches leftovers. You have to it make it work. Different if he had no cap space to do anything like Potter and JT.

Erm, he’s had barely any cap space. He IS still cleaning Ivan’s mess, millions of our cap is still tied up in Ivan’s mess. That’s why I won’t judge him until he’s been here three of four years like you said as that’s when it’ll properly be his squad

So he has a pass for 3-4 years?

Not a pass at all, he’s not perfect and he’s made mistakes, but he can’t be ruled out until he’s had a proper crack at building his squad. Seems fair enough if by then we are still struggling he probably isn’t the answer. Hard to know how long you give a coach sometimes

I think all you want to see out of a coach is improvement. We’re not seeing that. As for building a squad, no coach gets that luxury. All coaches have to work with what they’re given.

We’ve had performances this season where it’s the best we’ve looked in years. Just having our usual games where we don’t even bother, which has been an issue for 10+ years and is a lot bigger than just the coach
 
I turned off at 14-0.
2 tries and a penalty straight after dropped balls. Defence non existent.

Looking ahead? We need a couple of proper hard nut forwards and a proper game controller. Where we get them from is the problem.

If Benji goes around again next year this club is bonkers. Someone posted that Benji has 1 good game then 4 shockers but it’s worse than that. I admit Benji does some good things in every game but he does lots of dumb stuff in every game too. I can’t watch him anymore.
 
@bigsiro said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200200) said:
@TYGA said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200196) said:
We have to play the long game and the Tigers are. We criticise them for not holding standards with players now criticise a coach who does what we asked for. We won’t win anything until our best players or a majority are juniors that want to play for the Tigers. Most of the strong clubs of not all do this and it gives them the license to attract gun players in free agency.

Players will get paid by some team they mostly want to win.

Agree.
I also don’t think it’s helpful questioning a coach’s tenure after every loss.
Especially one like Madge. We are lucky to have him IMO.

I think it's appropriate that our supposed long serving NRL players tenures are questioned after numerous seasons of below average performances. I believe that WTs need to put performance bases in all of our contracts. Just like KPIs in business. WTs being a business appears to be hitting it's KPIs in the front office but not on the field. Give all the players KPIs to hit and if they don't hit them, their pays are subsidised and if that still doesn't work, their contracts are torn up. I don't care what the players association say, I care about our clubs future which isn't looking too crash hot atm. These players aren't responding to much, so attack their back pockets.
 
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200251) said:
@avocadoontoast said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200194) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200188) said:
@GNR4LIFE said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200185) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200182) said:
@GNR4LIFE said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200176) said:
Madge has to own it, which I’m sure he does.But all his defenders have to as well. Anyone that tries to say he’s still cleaning Ivan’s mess needs to accept that this is his squad. He might not have signed all 30 players, but it’s the majority of the squad, As a coach, unless you’ve been at a club for at least 3-4 years, not all the squad will have been signed by the current coach. It’s just one of the hazards of the job where you are going to have to deal with another coaches leftovers. You have to it make it work. Different if he had no cap space to do anything like Potter and JT.

Erm, he’s had barely any cap space. He IS still cleaning Ivan’s mess, millions of our cap is still tied up in Ivan’s mess. That’s why I won’t judge him until he’s been here three of four years like you said as that’s when it’ll properly be his squad

So he has a pass for 3-4 years?

Not a pass at all, he’s not perfect and he’s made mistakes, but he can’t be ruled out until he’s had a proper crack at building his squad. Seems fair enough if by then we are still struggling he probably isn’t the answer. Hard to know how long you give a coach sometimes

I think all you want to see out of a coach is improvement. We’re not seeing that. As for building a squad, no coach gets that luxury. All coaches have to work with what they’re given.

We’ve had performances this season where it’s the best we’ve looked in years. Just having our usual games where we don’t even bother, which has been an issue for 10+ years and is a lot bigger than just the coach

We looked good at times last year too. We’re 1 from our last 6. We haven’t improved. I don’t think the coach is 100% the problem but he’s not the solution either.
 
@TYGA said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200113) said:
@hodgo said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200101) said:
I think the observant supporter knows our squad is ordinary. I also agree that there is a culture of failure. During that time as fans, we have asked for a few things that i can recall
Guts - now whether people see it or not I have seen a team that has absolutely guts out performances in games that would have been embarrassing in the past. Have we done that every week, no with this week as an example, but you can see some steel especially defensively that has not existed in the past. And that is with honestly a low tier squad
Accountability- I distinctly remember the vast majority of this forum demanding players be dropped and held accountable for their play. MAdge is doing that. I saw a relevant post above that said how do players get back in and its spot on. Unfortunately, the only judgment can be made at training due the current situation.
Depth and youth- we have regularly had a poor lower grade set up with all our energy going to our top grade. Finally, we are ridding our selves of average journeymen and investing in youth. Yes its the long game but if we get a couple of gun backs and forwards over the next few years its a master stroke.

I see madge doing what he can to turn around the club. He probably needs to go through all the auxiliary staff as well. Just by what the people on the forum observe and talk about we can see its a monster task.
The simple truth is we actually need to all-in on madge IMO. Another coaching change could signal our death knell. And even if he isnt your first choice who is there that is actually better honestly. Your not getting a Bellamy, a Robinson.

I agree.

1) No better coach is signing with us
2) No star players will join unless you kill the salary cap.
3) Junior development is the only way
4) It takes years.

The coach is not the issue. It’s the squad and the poor state of the club always means you pay overs. We got lucky with Douehi and BJ being subsidised but even then they are not stars.

Absolutely spot on

Coach not the issue

Players need to go

Madge needs probably 3 to 4 more years to get us up to a consistent standard that wil please us fans

We have a decent core of good young forwards but if they don't perform we have no hope as we don't have the halves to change the momentum of a game

Look at Benji tonight

Missed tackles lead directly to tries and that is a weekly thing

Poor grubbers lead to get put of jail passes to the opposition with 7 tackle sets and that happened several times last night and pretty much happens weekly with him too

Than we all wonder why the team falls in a heap

We can never build pressure except for our standard 6 to 8 games per year

And let's face it we are not going to pull ready to go superstars out of our rear end so the only other way for Madge to move forward is to keep the best of what we've got, buy some quality along the way and hope the young kids develop the way we need them to
 
@Sco77y said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200210) said:
We’ve gone through too many coaches for this to all STILL be the coaches fault. Maybe the surrounding support systems? I don’t know.. These exact same performances and issues have been discussed for years, despite going through maybe the most coaches of any club in the NRL over this period. The only thing that hasn’t changed is a classless roster, which unfortunately now needs to be rebuilt AGAIN (thanks Cleary). But by all means let’s start from scratch with another new coach and repeat for the next decade..

keep the coach for sure

That's the fastest way to change this club

Changing coaches just leads to years of agony

We need to move on player's not change coaches every 2 years
I
 
@Sunnycoast_tiger said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200272) said:
A serious question If Madge is the wrong coach, who do we get ?

He isn't the wrong coach

We have a crap roster and if we give him the time he will fix it

It's time we stuck firm with the coach and dumped underperforming players as soon as their contracts are up
 
Thing is we've been saying that some players need to move on since 2005..and those that have moved, have been replaced by even poorer performers..Sometimes I wonder if a "fresh start" - eg a relocation - is the only answer to this rabble!!
 

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