A crucial period for Madge...

@cqtiger said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200258) said:
I turned off at 14-0.
2 tries and a penalty straight after dropped balls. Defence non existent.

Looking ahead? We need a couple of proper hard nut forwards and a proper game controller. Where we get them from is the problem.

If Benji goes around again next year this club is bonkers. Someone posted that Benji has 1 good game then 4 shockers but it’s worse than that. I admit Benji does some good things in every game but he does lots of dumb stuff in every game too. I can’t watch him anymore.

That was me, and if the club don't tell him next year is not an option then this crap will just keep happening, I said 2 months ago we need to shut down the Benji for next year talk as it will be a distraction, I was told I was exaggerating
 
@cochise said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200670) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200667) said:
@avocadoontoast said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200663) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200659) said:
@avocadoontoast said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200657) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200647) said:
@avocadoontoast said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200643) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200640) said:
@avocadoontoast said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200639) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200636) said:
@avocadoontoast said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200630) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200618) said:
@avocadoontoast said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200613) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200605) said:
@avocadoontoast said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200600) said:
@OzLuke said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200598) said:
Out of all the players dropped....it still beggars belief that Mbye has come through it all unscathed....

He gave a penalty and a seven tackle set away directly leading to Knights' first try.

It seems they try to find a position for him every week.....he'll be playing prop next week.

With our injuries to Walters and Grant, sure as eggs he will be first picked next week....but he seems to be getting worse

All of our backs are getting worse.

lol who? Talau keeps getting better. Nofa best footy in years. Joey looks the exact same as he did last year. Left wing there’s been a heap of different guys Talau excelled but others haven’t. Mbye just as good as last year which isn’t very good.

Lol Brooks, Reynolds, Mbye, Jennings are all much worse. Joey Leilua is not the player he was at Canberra. Nofo is having a good season relative to his previous disasters. Talau has never played first grade so how can we say he’s playing better? Madge might be a good forwards coach but you can’t say the same for the backs.

Brooks also had his best season under Madge? Has Reynolds really been worse, I thought he’s looked pretty good for us this season. Jennings was never good unless he was playing outside future immortal Greg Inglis. Statistically Mbye is doing better than last season in the centres compared to being at fullback. Talau looks better in first grade than he did in first grade. I agree Madge is more a forwards coach than a backs coach but there’s no truth in saying ALL our backs are going backwards when majority of them are just as good or going better.

Mate that is utter rubbish. Brooks, Reynolds and Benji are in the worst forms of their career. Brooks best year was 2018. Mbye was fantastic in 2018 but has declined constantly ever since. Jennings may not have been great but he was a hell of a lot better than he has been with us.

Our backs have regressed significantly under him. Blind Freddie could see that.

Reynolds has been injured for years and has probably been our best half this season, to say he’s in the worst form of his career is just crap ? Brooks is definitely in a slump no argument there. Benji played on a year too long and age has caught up to him, that’s not really on the coach although they should’ve told him to retire. If you watch Jennings he’s never been any better than what he is here. Solid defender, okay under the high ball and can fall over the line and score, gonna look good in any good team and will struggle in a bad team.

You’re really clutching at straws to defend Madge mate.

And you’re making up rubbish to make him look bad. You’re ignoring the good and only pointing out the bad. If brooks can play career best footy under Madge one year then struggle the next, that’s on Brooks.

Some of our outside backs certainly haven’t improved but you saying EVERY outside back is getting worse is a huge exaggeration intentionally trying to make it seem worse than it is.

One back is playing better, the rest have all gotten worse. For some reason you can’t criticise him for anything. You find excuses for everything ?

Reynolds, Talau, Nofa all improved. Despite the hate on Mbye, I would argue he’s doing better than last season too. That’s 4 lad. I can criticise Madge but I can also see that he won’t bring intent results and there’s no coach in the world fixing us in less than three years. I’m happy to give him time is all.

Lad? Lol ?

If you think Reynolds and Mbye have improved then there’s no point talking to you about it as you’re deluded.

When are you comparing Reynolds to? 2014? I’m comparing him to his time here. He’s playing his best footy for us since being at the club. Mbyes best footy was 2018, 2019 he was average, this year he’s clearly not a good player but he’s assisting and scoring more tries and his defence on that edge has been very good

So you’re now agreeing Mbye has been worse since Madge came? That’s good.

Reynolds hasn’t played good football since he’s arrived but I feel he’s looked particularly bad this year.

Mbye did well in 2018. Poor in 2019. A bit better again this year. He’s not exactly a great player though but he’s had his ups and downs.

I thought Reynolds has been solid. We’ve missed him out there lately he certainly helps with our energy and intensity.

That's really all he has though energy, we need more from our halves

He has a great kicking game, both long and short, and he is usually first or second chaser on his kicks, a better option than Benji and Brooks
 
@hobbo1 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200873) said:
@851 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200861) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1199900) said:
@ElleryHanley said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1199897) said:
Just watched the presser...disappointing to be honest. "We need to learn how to control momentum...do all the little things...completions...etc".

Reality is we have beaten no one above us. Reality is Newcastle are a 7th / 8th place type team and they have beaten us 40 + TWICE.

We need to realise where we really are.

He’s not wrong though. Errors and a lack of game management killed us. Did we force a drop out all game? Lots of laziness in defenders that was not there a few weeks ago.

Our halves are bog average, watching games over the weekend makes you realise how far off our 2 halves are, and we have no one else to blame but ourselves.
Madge extended Brooks and gave Benji another contract for this year, both decisions were clearly wrong, it is one bad decision after another for us, it is diabolical, we don't even have a goal kicker after 4 years of missing simple conversions.

If Madge didn’t extend brooks what year would’ve been Brooks’s last ?

2019.
https://www.sportingnews.com/au/league/news/luke-brooks-re-signs-with-wests-tigers/1jivw4d2ox39w1o1672uju3gcp

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/tigers/madge-convinces-brooks-to-ink-longterm-wests-deal-with-simple-promise/news-story/c0c2aa2053e5267a9e203c86cebf8309
 
@851 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200902) said:
@hobbo1 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200873) said:
@851 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200861) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1199900) said:
@ElleryHanley said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1199897) said:
Just watched the presser...disappointing to be honest. "We need to learn how to control momentum...do all the little things...completions...etc".

Reality is we have beaten no one above us. Reality is Newcastle are a 7th / 8th place type team and they have beaten us 40 + TWICE.

We need to realise where we really are.

He’s not wrong though. Errors and a lack of game management killed us. Did we force a drop out all game? Lots of laziness in defenders that was not there a few weeks ago.

Our halves are bog average, watching games over the weekend makes you realise how far off our 2 halves are, and we have no one else to blame but ourselves.
Madge extended Brooks and gave Benji another contract for this year, both decisions were clearly wrong, it is one bad decision after another for us, it is diabolical, we don't even have a goal kicker after 4 years of missing simple conversions.

If Madge didn’t extend brooks what year would’ve been Brooks’s last ?

2019.
https://www.sportingnews.com/au/league/news/luke-brooks-re-signs-with-wests-tigers/1jivw4d2ox39w1o1672uju3gcp

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/tigers/madge-convinces-brooks-to-ink-longterm-wests-deal-with-simple-promise/news-story/c0c2aa2053e5267a9e203c86cebf8309

Brooks will see him out ?

Gawd ?
 
@bigsiro said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200881) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200875) said:
@hobbo1 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200873) said:
@851 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200861) said:
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1199900) said:
@ElleryHanley said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1199897) said:
Just watched the presser...disappointing to be honest. "We need to learn how to control momentum...do all the little things...completions...etc".

Reality is we have beaten no one above us. Reality is Newcastle are a 7th / 8th place type team and they have beaten us 40 + TWICE.

We need to realise where we really are.

He’s not wrong though. Errors and a lack of game management killed us. Did we force a drop out all game? Lots of laziness in defenders that was not there a few weeks ago.

Our halves are bog average, watching games over the weekend makes you realise how far off our 2 halves are, and we have no one else to blame but ourselves.
Madge extended Brooks and gave Benji another contract for this year, both decisions were clearly wrong, it is one bad decision after another for us, it is diabolical, we don't even have a goal kicker after 4 years of missing simple conversions.

If Madge didn’t extend brooks what year would’ve been Brooks’s last ?

Pretty sure he was off contract before extending? Maybe he had a contract for this year still. He was so good last year it’s a shame he’s been so bad this season.

Josh, Brooks has been at this same dreck level for years.
I’m a Madge fan, but keeping brooks was the worst thing he coulda done.
Time to realize sunk costs, cut losses and move on. That is, if we want to win.

Brooks 2018 and 2019 was an above average half. He was finally looking like he had matured and found consistency. That’s gone down the toilet this year
 
'I can't rationalise it': Tigers boss feels for fans as finals slip away again
Chris Barrett
By Chris Barrett
August 9, 2020 — 7.30pm

Wests Tigers chairman Lee Hagipantelis says his heart aches for supporters of a club staring down the barrel of a decade without a semi-finals appearance and the joint venture’s roster can't be used as an excuse for under-achievement.

Barely three weeks since thumping Brisbane 48-0, the Tigers’ hopes of a long-awaited return to the NRL top eight look to be all but dashed following a third straight defeat, a 44-4 hammering at the hands of Newcastle on Saturday night.

It was a terrible flop on an occasion when the team’s season was virtually on the line and club favourites Benji Marshall and Chris Lawrence were marking their 250th matches.

“My heart aches for those fans and members as I sit in front of the TV and watch a performance like [Saturday night] and just cannot rationalise it,” Hagipantelis said on Sunday. “I just do not understand where a performance like that comes from.

“As the chair I feel an obligation and a responsibility to our fans and members to provide them a product of which they can be proud. We would all have been bitterly disappointed with [Saturday] night’s effort. I don’t think there would be anyone that could say otherwise. There is no point in sugar-coating it.”

There was a further blow on Sunday when emerging playmaker Billy Walters was ruled out for the rest of the season with a serious knee injury.

The Tigers have a horror run over the final seven rounds of the shortened 20-game competition in which they face the top four sides – Penrith, Melbourne, Parramatta and the Roosters – as well as Souths and Manly. They will almost certainly have to win at least five of their remaining matches, starting with next Sunday’s clash with bottom-placed Canterbury at Bankwest Stadium, to make the finals.

They have not done so since 2011, the longest current streak away from the semis of any NRL club. That drought seems destined now to stretch for a full decade, the last two years on the watch of Michael Maguire.

The coach has tried shuffling key players like Marshall and Luke Brooks in and out of the side in an effort to find his best combination but the ploy hasn’t ultimately worked.

The Tigers lack the strength across their squad to challenge the best teams and there are also questions about the value for money provided by top earners like Joey Leilua and Moses Mbye, who has been played in several positions, most recently at hooker in place of the injured Harry Grant.

The chairman, however, is not interested in excuses.

“You often hear about transitioning and rotating of rosters and the like, but our fans and members don’t want to hear that anymore,” Hagipantelis said. “They want the roster that is there to perform as we all do, they want the administrators and the board to perform and they’re entitled to that expectation.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/i-can-t-rationalise-it-tigers-boss-feels-for-fans-as-finals-slip-away-again-20200809-p55k1m.html
 
I have never heard or read Lee speak without him mentioning that he’s the chairman of the club. He’s not a very modest man 😂
 
@BalmainJnr said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200931) said:
The chairman, however, is not interested in excuses.

“You often hear about transitioning and rotating of rosters and the like, but our fans and members don’t want to hear that anymore,” Hagipantelis said. “They want the roster that is there to perform as we all do, they want the administrators and the board to perform and they’re entitled to that expectation.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/i-can-t-rationalise-it-tigers-boss-feels-for-fans-as-finals-slip-away-again-20200809-p55k1m.html

A shot at Pascoe there 🤔
 
@JoshColeman99 said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200933) said:
I have never heard or read Lee speak without him mentioning that he’s the chairman of the club. He’s not a very modest man 😂

He’s doing a great job, if you don’t believe me just ask him 😂
 
@Tiger_Steve said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200950) said:
Bloke speaks with the passion we continually ask for and he gets slammed for being arrogant. Seriously?

I like him and I think he’s a good business man, and he’s a passionate fan. It’s just funny that he has to mention all his accomplishments every time he speaks 😂
 
@Tiger_Steve said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200950) said:
Bloke speaks with the passion we continually ask for and he gets slammed for being arrogant. Seriously?

I have no problem with the bloke at all, but he does love the attention. Not necessarily a bad thing.
 
I don’t know him but he’s successful and used to winning. He also is a passionate fan so relates to all of us on the forum And in the stands. Gotta be good for us I’d reckon
 
Been thinking about this ...I don't know if it is...Our own fans have already laid out the excuses ...not his roster ..we suck no one would do any better ..looks like 2021 is a write off before a ball is kicked as those same contacts holding us back are still in play..so why would we go any better..

The fact too that the media speak after the rumoured link to the Cowgirls both from Madge and the club via the chairman shows a commitment on the face of it..

So it's not really a crucial period at all..free pass til 2022 then probably 2025 cause by then he should have his team no dud contracts no dud signings no plodders no nuffies ..no reason not to be un defeated Minor Premiers and eventual Premiers for 11 consecutive years after that..
 
@Geo said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200967) said:
Been thinking about this ...I don't know if it is...Our own fans have already laid out the excuses ...not his roster ..we suck no one would do any better ..looks like 2021 is a write off before a ball is kicked as those same contacts holding us back are still in play..so why would we go any better..

The fact too that the media speak after the rumoured link to the Cowgirls both from Madge and the club via the chairman shows a commitment on the face of it..

So it's not really a crucial period at all..free pass til 2022 then probably 2025 cause by then he should have his team no dud contracts no dud signings no plodders no nuffies ..no reason not to be un defeated Minor Premiers and eventual Premiers for 11 consecutive years after that..

So you’re saying there’s no real current pressure to perform - there are excuses we all accept. I reckon there’s a trust in Madge (almost desperate) that he will enforce the standards that will bring success. I don’t think the club knows what success looks like but is trying to bring in people who do - Madge, Hartigan.
I listened to Nathan brown last week. He really spoke sense. He said at the end of the day, no matter what systems, coach, playing style you’ve got, you need the roster. Therefore roster management is the most important thing. Rings true to me.
 
@BalmainJnr said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200931) said:
'I can't rationalise it': Tigers boss feels for fans as finals slip away again
Chris Barrett
By Chris Barrett
August 9, 2020 — 7.30pm

Wests Tigers chairman Lee Hagipantelis says his heart aches for supporters of a club staring down the barrel of a decade without a semi-finals appearance and the joint venture’s roster can't be used as an excuse for under-achievement.

Barely three weeks since thumping Brisbane 48-0, the Tigers’ hopes of a long-awaited return to the NRL top eight look to be all but dashed following a third straight defeat, a 44-4 hammering at the hands of Newcastle on Saturday night.

It was a terrible flop on an occasion when the team’s season was virtually on the line and club favourites Benji Marshall and Chris Lawrence were marking their 250th matches.

“My heart aches for those fans and members as I sit in front of the TV and watch a performance like [Saturday night] and just cannot rationalise it,” Hagipantelis said on Sunday. “I just do not understand where a performance like that comes from.

“As the chair I feel an obligation and a responsibility to our fans and members to provide them a product of which they can be proud. We would all have been bitterly disappointed with [Saturday] night’s effort. I don’t think there would be anyone that could say otherwise. There is no point in sugar-coating it.”

There was a further blow on Sunday when emerging playmaker Billy Walters was ruled out for the rest of the season with a serious knee injury.

The Tigers have a horror run over the final seven rounds of the shortened 20-game competition in which they face the top four sides – Penrith, Melbourne, Parramatta and the Roosters – as well as Souths and Manly. They will almost certainly have to win at least five of their remaining matches, starting with next Sunday’s clash with bottom-placed Canterbury at Bankwest Stadium, to make the finals.

They have not done so since 2011, the longest current streak away from the semis of any NRL club. That drought seems destined now to stretch for a full decade, the last two years on the watch of Michael Maguire.

The coach has tried shuffling key players like Marshall and Luke Brooks in and out of the side in an effort to find his best combination but the ploy hasn’t ultimately worked.

The Tigers lack the strength across their squad to challenge the best teams and there are also questions about the value for money provided by top earners like Joey Leilua and Moses Mbye, who has been played in several positions, most recently at hooker in place of the injured Harry Grant.

The chairman, however, is not interested in excuses.

“You often hear about transitioning and rotating of rosters and the like, but our fans and members don’t want to hear that anymore,” Hagipantelis said. “They want the roster that is there to perform as we all do, they want the administrators and the board to perform and they’re entitled to that expectation.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/i-can-t-rationalise-it-tigers-boss-feels-for-fans-as-finals-slip-away-again-20200809-p55k1m.html

And what will you all do if it doesn't happen AGAIN

Save your own asses no doubt
 
@Tiger_Steve said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200974) said:
@Geo said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200967) said:
Been thinking about this ...I don't know if it is...Our own fans have already laid out the excuses ...not his roster ..we suck no one would do any better ..looks like 2021 is a write off before a ball is kicked as those same contacts holding us back are still in play..so why would we go any better..

The fact too that the media speak after the rumoured link to the Cowgirls both from Madge and the club via the chairman shows a commitment on the face of it..

So it's not really a crucial period at all..free pass til 2022 then probably 2025 cause by then he should have his team no dud contracts no dud signings no plodders no nuffies ..no reason not to be un defeated Minor Premiers and eventual Premiers for 11 consecutive years after that..

So you’re saying there’s no real current pressure to perform - there are excuses we all accept. I reckon there’s a trust in Madge (almost desperate) that he will enforce the standards that will bring success. I don’t think the club knows what success looks like but is trying to bring in people who do - Madge, Hartigan.
I listened to Nathan brown last week. He really spoke sense. He said at the end of the day, no matter what systems, coach, playing style you’ve got, you need the roster. Therefore roster management is the most important thing. Rings true to me.

Yes there is no pressure to perform in the short term..we just have to continue to live with that...
 
Well we need to make a call on Madge during the off season imo, otherwise we will be in the same predicament where a new coach comes in and doesn't have his own roster. I'm hoping it works out with Madge he seems a genuine guy.
 
@Geo said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200981) said:
@Tiger_Steve said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200974) said:
@Geo said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200967) said:
Been thinking about this ...I don't know if it is...Our own fans have already laid out the excuses ...not his roster ..we suck no one would do any better ..looks like 2021 is a write off before a ball is kicked as those same contacts holding us back are still in play..so why would we go any better..

The fact too that the media speak after the rumoured link to the Cowgirls both from Madge and the club via the chairman shows a commitment on the face of it..

So it's not really a crucial period at all..free pass til 2022 then probably 2025 cause by then he should have his team no dud contracts no dud signings no plodders no nuffies ..no reason not to be un defeated Minor Premiers and eventual Premiers for 11 consecutive years after that..

So you’re saying there’s no real current pressure to perform - there are excuses we all accept. I reckon there’s a trust in Madge (almost desperate) that he will enforce the standards that will bring success. I don’t think the club knows what success looks like but is trying to bring in people who do - Madge, Hartigan.
I listened to Nathan brown last week. He really spoke sense. He said at the end of the day, no matter what systems, coach, playing style you’ve got, you need the roster. Therefore roster management is the most important thing. Rings true to me.

Yes there is no pressure to perform in the short term..we just have to continue to live with that...

2019 not his roster
2020 not his roster
2021 not his roster
2022 His roster but they need time to gel
2023 refs are killing us
2024 start from 2019 again, repeat.
 
@Geo said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200981) said:
@Tiger_Steve said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200974) said:
@Geo said in [A crucial period for Madge\.\.\.](/post/1200967) said:
Been thinking about this ...I don't know if it is...Our own fans have already laid out the excuses ...not his roster ..we suck no one would do any better ..looks like 2021 is a write off before a ball is kicked as those same contacts holding us back are still in play..so why would we go any better..

The fact too that the media speak after the rumoured link to the Cowgirls both from Madge and the club via the chairman shows a commitment on the face of it..

So it's not really a crucial period at all..free pass til 2022 then probably 2025 cause by then he should have his team no dud contracts no dud signings no plodders no nuffies ..no reason not to be un defeated Minor Premiers and eventual Premiers for 11 consecutive years after that..

So you’re saying there’s no real current pressure to perform - there are excuses we all accept. I reckon there’s a trust in Madge (almost desperate) that he will enforce the standards that will bring success. I don’t think the club knows what success looks like but is trying to bring in people who do - Madge, Hartigan.
I listened to Nathan brown last week. He really spoke sense. He said at the end of the day, no matter what systems, coach, playing style you’ve got, you need the roster. Therefore roster management is the most important thing. Rings true to me.

Yes there is no pressure to perform in the short term..we just have to continue to live with that...

That’s hard. As the chairman said - a decade without any success is hard to cop. BUT if that’s what we have to do it is definitely preferable to changing coaches again. I think Maguire is the guy but gee we need to supplement him with better roster management but I’ll be buggered if I know how
 

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