A crucial period for Madge...

[avocadoontoast]

Hooper is just an AFL reject who makes stuff up. He genuinely knows zilch about NRL and just offers comment as part of getting paid. He is a flog of the highest order.

Absolutely, he’s been bang on about a couple of things this year though.

 

[gallagher]

This is the part where the media go after the coach and the management goes to water.

 

[jirskyr]

This is the part where the media go after the coach and the management goes to water.

I agree, let's hope Tigers do an opposite and all-out back the coach. Hooper just the other day is supporting the coach, now he's getting a dig in. Which is why you can't trust journos.

I fail to understand, if the Tigers are a soft team, I think we all agree they are, why a "drill sergeant style" is not a good idea. In other words, how or why should you go softer on a team that falls in and out of matches, and can be competitive when it suits them? The very rationale behind the drill sergeant is to get soldiers to be able to perform under pressure.

Personally I'm tired of the soft teams, "the entertainers" who can't defend. I'm tired of watching hard-edge teams like Storm and Roosters do all the winning. So I'm prepared to back a badass coach for years, even if he is super-intense - let him sign players who thrive under intensity and let him release the ones that do not. Luciano Leilua for example, best shape of his career. Who complains about Bellamy or Robinson or Ricky Stuart being too "intense"? Because they are intense, Bellamy loses his tiny mind, very much in public, when Storm make mistakes.

(BTW "style of approach" is horrible grammar from Pooper, it's already implied in "style" that there is a reference to a method")

 

[jirskyr]

Also, that "intense" approach from Madge got Souths the premiership and 4 consecutive finals appearances.

Nobody in public really knows if Madge did or did not burn-out the Souths side (rumour says he did, but I've ready direct quotes from Sam Burgess saying it's rubbish).

Personally, if Madge can get us 4 consecutive finals appearances plus a premiership, then burn out the side and get sacked - I'll take it. Sign me up right now.

 

[jirskyr]

I recall the Dogs having a halves issue and Dessie had the forwards ball play through James Graham to great success (Grand Finalists). He had a problem and adapted.

Not the world's greatest example, Des being sacked within a few years and soundly blamed (rightly or not) for the spending quagmire the Dogs found themselves in, and haven't recovered from since.

That wasn’t the point of the example ??

I get the point of your example, but what a coach did with his forwards whilst he was killing the club is not a great example IMO.

It would be like saying how smart a job Bellamy did with Melbourne in 2007 whilst he was cheating the salary cap. Yeah he could achieve certain outcomes whilst he was doing the wrong thing, and it's not something a rule-abiding coach can necessarily emulate.

 

[Furious1]

NRL 2020: Mick Potter urges Wests Tigers to back coach Michael Maguire
After having his own coaching career sabotaged by club infighting, Mick Potter has delivered some scathing home truths for Wests Tigers.

Paul Crawley, NRL, The Daily Telegraph
Subscriber only
|
August 11, 2020 11:15am
Close

FOXSPORTS1:24
Instability crushing Tigers
NRL: Michael Ennis and James Hooper believe the instability in selections is causing a ripple effect on the whole team at the Wests Tigers.
MORE IN SPORT

’Sociopath’: Why my brother hated every other halfback


Monday Buzz: One-time undisputed No.1 dethroned


How Bennett bypassed Souths’ COVID-19 bubble


After having his own head coaching career sabotaged by Wests Tigers infighting, Mick Potter has called on the club not to make Michael Maguire another coaching scapegoat.

And he has also come to the defence of Luke Brooks, labelling the under-fire playmaker “a bloke you’d go to war with” — not the reason the Tigers remain the club with the NRL’s longest finals drought.

Potter’s career was destroyed six years ago during a disastrous period when there was conflict surrounding Robbie Farah and Benji Marshall following Tim Sheens’ demise. The Tigers have not made the finals since 2011 — Sheens’ penultimate season in charge.

What’s worse, they now sit lower on the ladder than when Potter had his world turned upside down by warring factions.

Kayo is your ticket to the 2020 NRL Telstra Premiership. Every game of every round Live & On-Demand with no-ad breaks during play. New to Kayo? Get your 14-day free trial & start streaming instantly >

Former Tigers coach Mick Potter has urged the club to standby Maguire. Picture Gregg Porteous.
Former Tigers coach Mick Potter has urged the club to standby Maguire. Picture Gregg Porteous.
Now there’s talk Maguire’s military-style attitude is wearing thin on players — and you get the feeling it’s all brewing towards another coaching execution.

“Not much has changed except they keep trying to change the coach,” Potter said.

“As you know, Madge is a good coach. Madge is not their problem.”

Asked what he believes is the problem, Potter continued: “If they can hold onto a good coach, which Michael Maguire is, maybe they will get more consistent good performances from their players.

“As a head coach you want stability in your board, you want stability in the processes. You don’t want people that overstep their mark in certain areas and then start undermining what you are trying to do.

“And you can’t have player agents influencing people around you to sign players. You have to have control of that.”

Since Potter, the Tigers have gone through three other coaches — Jason Taylor, stand-in Andrew Webster and Ivan Cleary, with Maguire now under the pump.

Potter also has sympathy for players caught up in the mess.

Not least of all Brooks, who debuted under Potter in 2013.

At that point Brooks was talked up as the next big thing; now there are suggestions he’s also part of a bigger problem.

Potter has also defended struggling playmaker Luke Brooks, after his recent benching. Picture: Getty Images.
Potter has also defended struggling playmaker Luke Brooks, after his recent benching. Picture: Getty Images.
Potter sees it differently: “You go and put him in the Roosters team and see how he plays. I reckon he’d look all right.

“Luke Brooks has great vision and can play. He will take the line on. He will kick the ball good. But has he got the cattle around him?

“He’s trying his hardest. He’s a competitor. He’s a bloke you’d go to war with, Brooksie, and they are the type of players who you want in your system.”

In 2014 the Tigers were travelling better than they are now when Potter woke up one Sunday morning to read that he was a goner.

At that point the Tigers were ninth on for and against but on equal competition points with the team sitting sixth before a game against St George Illawarra.

This happened around the time Gorden Tallis and Farah were embroiled in a huge public slanging match over Tallis’ claims that Farah had bagged Potter’s coaching in a private chat a year earlier.

While Farah denied it, Potter’s career never recovered.

Tallis also claimed player power was behind Tim Sheens’ demise.

Potter recalled: “I remember Chimes (his agent Steve Gillis) telling me, ‘you should just resign’.

“And I said, ‘I’m not a quitter’. I want to see it through and see if I can change it.”

In 2014, Gorden Tallis claimed Tigers captain Robbie Farah had privately bagged coach Mick Potter. Picture: Brett Costello.
In 2014, Gorden Tallis claimed Tigers captain Robbie Farah had privately bagged coach Mick Potter. Picture: Brett Costello.
MORE NEWS

Wests Tigers’ plan to find the next James Tedesco

Kent: Behind NRL’s out-of-control coaching carousel

Before coaching the Tigers, the two-time Dally M Medal winner cut his teeth coaching in England where he took St Helens to two grand finals.

But Potter quickly learned he was in for a wild ride.

“I knew it was going to be a hard gig after Tim Sheens had been there for 10 years,” Potter said.

“But from the first press conference the media were just saying, ‘how are you going to manage this’. And I got numerous phones calls from people involved in the club giving me warnings.

“They were just saying things were at play, whether it was factions or ambitious people around. Straight away I was like, ‘this is crazy’.”

Asked if he still had ambitions to be a head coach, Potter said: “I am not one of those people who want to get out in the media and play that game but I still think I have got some things to offer. Whether that’s head coaching or assisting. But I am not one to go out and mingle with the powers that be that drive the rugby league world, and that’s to my detriment.”

 

[851]

One observation from last night - They looked really tired. Almost like they played an hour before and had to back up. I wonder how effective Madge is at the light and shade or whether he is just full throttle with training all week every week.

Maybe they got the stick for last weeks efforts.

Might seem counter intuitive but I'm for it. I feel like for years the players have been allowed to coast on through without repercussions. We've not made the finals for 8, soon to be 9, seasons. The players know they will walk on in next week to play and collect, so I'm not against the caning they might cop in training and the weekly droppings. They can enjoy their large contracts now, but it's going to hurt them when they come up for renewal and a team that hasn't made the finals in 9 years is dropping them.

I had a sobering thought when I was watching the pregame the other night and they were talking about Chris Lawrence and Benji Marshall, he (Lawrence,) has played 15 seasons and only seen two finals campaigns. 250 games, and only 5 of those were finals games. It's a shame a player of his calibre was wasted. Same as Farah, 277 matches for Wests and only played 9 finals games, 4 of which were 2005 (obviously.) **As much as I hate the three, I'm starting to see why guys like Woods, Tedesco and Moses wanted out. I don't like the way they all did it, but they probably didn't want to be the next Rowdy.**

Understand exactly what you are saying, but those guys were getting paid the money to take us there and couldn't deliver. Had that core group of players stuck solid we could have been a long way ahead now and possibly been a regular finals contender. When they did what they did, they basically tore the footings out from under the house and all the bricks came tumbling down.

The treatment of a club legend and captain in Farah played a huge part in that make no mistake, if you are a young player and see a club legend treated like that, you would think that could be me one day, I will take the money on offer elsewhere.

 

[old_man_tiger]

2012 to 2017 was a write off.
2018 was the first time is say we were blameless victims and I think we have improved as an organisation. Yet I have very little sympathy for the club as it is their own fault that we wasted 5 years and a tonne of potential. The record books won't show that the first 5 years of the finals drought happened due to poor administration, only that we failed.

I only have any concern for the fans as many, like me, are seriously questioning why they bother if the forum is any indication.

 

[Furious1]

One observation from last night - They looked really tired. Almost like they played an hour before and had to back up. I wonder how effective Madge is at the light and shade or whether he is just full throttle with training all week every week.

Maybe they got the stick for last weeks efforts.

Might seem counter intuitive but I'm for it. I feel like for years the players have been allowed to coast on through without repercussions. We've not made the finals for 8, soon to be 9, seasons. The players know they will walk on in next week to play and collect, so I'm not against the caning they might cop in training and the weekly droppings. They can enjoy their large contracts now, but it's going to hurt them when they come up for renewal and a team that hasn't made the finals in 9 years is dropping them.

I had a sobering thought when I was watching the pregame the other night and they were talking about Chris Lawrence and Benji Marshall, he (Lawrence,) has played 15 seasons and only seen two finals campaigns. 250 games, and only 5 of those were finals games. It's a shame a player of his calibre was wasted. Same as Farah, 277 matches for Wests and only played 9 finals games, 4 of which were 2005 (obviously.) **As much as I hate the three, I'm starting to see why guys like Woods, Tedesco and Moses wanted out. I don't like the way they all did it, but they probably didn't want to be the next Rowdy.**

Understand exactly what you are saying, but those guys were getting paid the money to take us there and couldn't deliver. Had that core group of players stuck solid we could have been a long way ahead now and possibly been a regular finals contender. When they did what they did, they basically tore the footings out from under the house and all the bricks came tumbling down.

The treatment of a club legend and captain in Farah played a huge part in that make no mistake, if you are a young player and see a club legend treated like that, you would think that could be me one day, I will take the money on offer elsewhere.

I will agree it played some part, but i think the overwhelming cause had more to do with a certain player manager and his now former friend not being offered a full time role with the club. Quite understandably the coach was becoming paranoid when the "guru" was starting to interfere with his messages to the playing group.

 

[Snake]

Imo this period is going to make or break this club ... the media are at there old tricks once again , miss information , fake news , no sources just hear say . Do not be fooled there are players in this club that know they are under the pump to keep there jobs and some high profile ones to boot .
Player managers would be stirring the pot with there media mates about how there boy is under pressure And how this is all Maguires fault ... this is a ploy as it goes back years about how supposedly the coach thrashes his players... you see it always goes back to the one reason there are no others .
I definitely think there is some player unrest and the unrest is many now know there day’s are numbered !

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

One observation from last night - They looked really tired. Almost like they played an hour before and had to back up. I wonder how effective Madge is at the light and shade or whether he is just full throttle with training all week every week.

Maybe they got the stick for last weeks efforts.

Might seem counter intuitive but I'm for it. I feel like for years the players have been allowed to coast on through without repercussions. We've not made the finals for 8, soon to be 9, seasons. The players know they will walk on in next week to play and collect, so I'm not against the caning they might cop in training and the weekly droppings. They can enjoy their large contracts now, but it's going to hurt them when they come up for renewal and a team that hasn't made the finals in 9 years is dropping them.

I had a sobering thought when I was watching the pregame the other night and they were talking about Chris Lawrence and Benji Marshall, he (Lawrence,) has played 15 seasons and only seen two finals campaigns. 250 games, and only 5 of those were finals games. It's a shame a player of his calibre was wasted. Same as Farah, 277 matches for Wests and only played 9 finals games, 4 of which were 2005 (obviously.) **As much as I hate the three, I'm starting to see why guys like Woods, Tedesco and Moses wanted out. I don't like the way they all did it, but they probably didn't want to be the next Rowdy.**

Understand exactly what you are saying, but those guys were getting paid the money to take us there and couldn't deliver. Had that core group of players stuck solid we could have been a long way ahead now and possibly been a regular finals contender. When they did what they did, they basically tore the footings out from under the house and all the bricks came tumbling down.

The treatment of a club legend and captain in Farah played a huge part in that make no mistake, if you are a young player and see a club legend treated like that, you would think that could be me one day, I will take the money on offer elsewhere.

I will agree it played some part, but i think the overwhelming cause had more to do with a certain player manager and his now former friend not being offered a full time role with the club. Quite understandably the coach was becoming paranoid when the "guru" was starting to interfere with his messages to the playing group.

And then said manager and guru have a falling out, and now the former's credentials are going to be torn up.

 

[avocadoontoast]

If we're going to extend Madge (and I expect we will), I think the only way forward is a complete clean out. It's the only way to change culture. No point taking the half pregnant approach. Clearly there are players in the team that are not buying into his methods. If the club decides to back Madge then those players have to be moved on.

For a change of culture to occur ie. from a losing culture to a winning culture, then you need winners. When you go through our roster from top to bottom, there are very few players there that have experienced success in the NRL. They've gotten used to losing.

Looking forward to our squad next year, assuming ET, McQueen, Marshall and Lawrence all all go we'll have a total of 5 players in our top 30 who have played in the semi's, none of which have ever won a premiership. Only 2 of those (AD and Joey Leilua) have played finals football in the past 5 years. That's 17% of our team who have ever played in a team that have finished in the top half of the competition, and less than 7% that have played finals in the past 5 years.

Take the hit, clean it out, start again. And get a halves coach.

 

[JC99]

Luciano in an interview saying they’re not being trained too hard - had an honest sessions yesterday and today’s session was all about fun!

To be fair they need it, probably all the sessions this year have been super strict and tough, maybe Madge realises he needs to raise the spirits of the playing squad so has eased off for the first time this season.

I think it’s a good move, then again the players and coach always talk about how good they’re going at training but it’s not always showing on the field

 

[Madge]

Luciano in an interview saying they’re not being trained too hard - had an honest sessions yesterday and today’s session was all about fun!

To be fair they need it, probably all the sessions this year have been super strict and tough, maybe Madge realises he needs to raise the spirits of the playing squad so has eased off for the first time this season.

I think it’s a good move, then again the players and coach always talk about how good they’re going at training but it’s not always showing on the field

Would you be able to post the interview please?

 

[JC99]

Luciano in an interview saying they’re not being trained too hard - had an honest sessions yesterday and today’s session was all about fun!

To be fair they need it, probably all the sessions this year have been super strict and tough, maybe Madge realises he needs to raise the spirits of the playing squad so has eased off for the first time this season.

I think it’s a good move, then again the players and coach always talk about how good they’re going at training but it’s not always showing on the field

Would you be able to post the interview please?

I couldn’t find it - a journalist I follow posted about it on twitter. They normally go up today so I’ll post it once I see it

 

[Furious1]

One observation from last night - They looked really tired. Almost like they played an hour before and had to back up. I wonder how effective Madge is at the light and shade or whether he is just full throttle with training all week every week.

Maybe they got the stick for last weeks efforts.

Might seem counter intuitive but I'm for it. I feel like for years the players have been allowed to coast on through without repercussions. We've not made the finals for 8, soon to be 9, seasons. The players know they will walk on in next week to play and collect, so I'm not against the caning they might cop in training and the weekly droppings. They can enjoy their large contracts now, but it's going to hurt them when they come up for renewal and a team that hasn't made the finals in 9 years is dropping them.

I had a sobering thought when I was watching the pregame the other night and they were talking about Chris Lawrence and Benji Marshall, he (Lawrence,) has played 15 seasons and only seen two finals campaigns. 250 games, and only 5 of those were finals games. It's a shame a player of his calibre was wasted. Same as Farah, 277 matches for Wests and only played 9 finals games, 4 of which were 2005 (obviously.) **As much as I hate the three, I'm starting to see why guys like Woods, Tedesco and Moses wanted out. I don't like the way they all did it, but they probably didn't want to be the next Rowdy.**

Understand exactly what you are saying, but those guys were getting paid the money to take us there and couldn't deliver. Had that core group of players stuck solid we could have been a long way ahead now and possibly been a regular finals contender. When they did what they did, they basically tore the footings out from under the house and all the bricks came tumbling down.

The treatment of a club legend and captain in Farah played a huge part in that make no mistake, if you are a young player and see a club legend treated like that, you would think that could be me one day, I will take the money on offer elsewhere.

I will agree it played some part, but i think the overwhelming cause had more to do with a certain player manager and his now former friend not being offered a full time role with the club. Quite understandably the coach was becoming paranoid when the "guru" was starting to interfere with his messages to the playing group.

And then said manager and guru have a falling out, and now the former's credentials are going to be torn up.

Beautiful isn’t it.

 

[old_man_tiger]

Luciano in an interview saying they’re not being trained too hard - had an honest sessions yesterday and today’s session was all about fun!

To be fair they need it, probably all the sessions this year have been super strict and tough, maybe Madge realises he needs to raise the spirits of the playing squad so has eased off for the first time this season.

I think it’s a good move, then again the players and coach always talk about how good they’re going at training but it’s not always showing on the field

Funnily enough he is one of the 10 or so players who actually have a dig. No surprise there and I wish we had 30 like him.

 

[Tiger5150]

I wonder how much of the Madge drill sergeant thing is just a trope now that lazy journalists fall back on when something looks like a duck.

Tigers Fans : Madge has us fitter than ever

Also Tigers FAns : Madge is pushing them too hard

 

[JC99]

Luciano in an interview saying they’re not being trained too hard - had an honest sessions yesterday and today’s session was all about fun!

To be fair they need it, probably all the sessions this year have been super strict and tough, maybe Madge realises he needs to raise the spirits of the playing squad so has eased off for the first time this season.

I think it’s a good move, then again the players and coach always talk about how good they’re going at training but it’s not always showing on the field

Funnily enough he is one of the 10 or so players who actually have a dig. No surprise there and I wish we had 30 like him.

He’s probably my favourite player at the moment. He’s one of the few top quality player we have, he is fantastic. Extend his contract now I reckon

 

[JC99]

I wonder how much of the Madge drill sergeant thing is just a trope now that lazy journalists fall back on when something looks like a duck.

Tigers Fans : Madge has us fitter than ever

Also Tigers FAns : Madge is pushing them too hard

It is. We’ve been losing games we should’ve won for years with or without Madge