Aussie kids in Syria

[GoldXR50Leroy]

Let's remember this thread is about children who haven't made a conscious decision about anything…. Some seem to be forgetting that

It appears that the @##$$% Father of this family may still be alive, if that's the case there's no confirmation that their Mother is no longer among the living but yes allow Granny Nettleton the opportunity to repatriate the Grand Children before they to believe in Jihad!.

 

[Yossarian]

Let's remember this thread is about children who haven't made a conscious decision about anything…. Some seem to be forgetting that

It appears that the @##$$% Father of this family may still be alive, if that's the case there's no confirmation that their Mother is no longer among the living but yes allow Granny Nettleton the opportunity to repatriate the Grand Children before they to believe in Jihad!.

I think it's unlikely the father is still alive. The oldest daughter seems to have bought into the whole business in a big way.

 

[Harvey]

According to some of the slaves held captive in the house, all the kids have bought into it.

 

[GoldXR50Leroy]

Let's remember this thread is about children who haven't made a conscious decision about anything…. Some seem to be forgetting that

It appears that the @##$$% Father of this family may still be alive, if that's the case there's no confirmation that their Mother is no longer among the living but yes allow Granny Nettleton the opportunity to repatriate the Grand Children before they to believe in Jihad!.

I think it's unlikely the father is still alive. The oldest daughter seems to have bought into the whole business in a big way.

To be mother at the Tender age of 14 certainly confirms the indocrination of the Naive

 

[Abraham]

Well if I was a mother of 5 who wanted to get my kids back to Australia, but was threatened with arrest on arrival, I might consider:

- Faking my own death, and that of my husband.
- Engaging family and lefty sympathisers in Australia to campaign to bring the innocent orphaned kiddies back home.
- Once the dust has settled obtain a new passport and identity (these are available in Syria at every street corner) and try my luck at slipping back into Australia at some point through a myriad of avenues.

Worth a shot hey !

Incidentally, if she is indeed dead, then I can almost guarantee she was killed by her husband/ISIS goons for trying to leave "the caliphate", as has happened with every other person attempting to flee.

As for those wanting the kids to return, ask yourself if you want them living next door to you and your family? If the answer if no, then you have no right asking for them to be brought back to this country.

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

Hey Abraham, what was the guy you are named after famous for - going to chop off his own kid's head to please Allah - the irony of it.

 

[Abraham]

Hey Abraham, what was the guy you are named after famous for - going to chop off his own kid's head to please Allah - the irony of it.

You may term it as such, but only on a very simplistic and superficial level.

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

Hey Abraham, what was the guy you are named after famous for - going to chop off his own kid's head to please Allah - the irony of it.

You may term it as such, but only on a very simplistic and superficial level.

Well what was that Sharouff guy famous for - for knocking off heads. It shows that for about 3 thousand years that religion has kept people barbaric and backwards and they take stupid books literally.

The same goes for the name Joshua, the Biblical genocider Joshua was the first Hitler recorded that I have read of, yet it one of the most popular names in Australia etc. - I consider such names an insult to the victims that suffered under them. How about if Hitler was our popular name, what an insult - nothing different in my view.

 

[Abraham]

Well what was that Sharouff guy famous for - for knocking off heads. It shows that for about 3 thousand years that religion has kept people barbaric and backwards and they take stupid books literally.

The same goes for the name Joshua, the Biblical genocider Joshua was the first Hitler recorded that I have read of, yet it one of the most popular names in Australia etc. - I consider such names an insult to the victims that suffered under them. How about if Hitler was our popular name, what an insult - nothing different in my view.

Seems as though you're also guilty of taking religious books literally.

And to throw all religions into the same basket is about as smart as saying all white people are serial killers, because of Jeffrey Dahmer.

If you don’t understand the Old Testament, that’s fine, just say so and maybe someone will help you understand it. But to identify meaning without context is the play of the bigot (or the ignorant).

It is a book written 4,000 years ago, set in a very different world, and slanted to an audience of illiterate desert Jews, in an ancient language. It is a collection of stories aimed at setting a platform for people to understand and appreciate what was to come.

It is not meant to be taken as a literal reading of historical events, to be measured up against current day norms and values, in modern English, devoid of understanding the context in which it was written.

Your comments show that you’re no different than the people who believe the world was created in 6 x 24hr blocks, and that Noah lived to be 500 years old. Different faces of the same coin.

No wonder you have such a warped view of it. But that’s what happens when you have preconceived ideas about something and don’t take the time to understand it, or challenge what you were taught.

If you want to PM then go for it, but this isn’t a thread to bash or be taught about the Christian religion.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Hey Abraham, what was the guy you are named after famous for - going to chop off his own kid's head to please Allah - the irony of it.

You may term it as such, but only on a very simplistic and superficial level.

Well what was that Sharouff guy famous for - for knocking off heads. It shows that for about 3 thousand years that religion has kept people barbaric and backwards and they take stupid books literally.

The same goes for the name Joshua, the Biblical genocider Joshua was the first Hitler recorded that I have read of, yet it one of the most popular names in Australia etc. - I consider such names an insult to the victims that suffered under them. How about if Hitler was our popular name, what an insult - nothing different in my view.

Come on BBF, you can't blame Abraham or any others as they are innocent victims whom had no say in the matter, just like the children of that idiot Sharouff

 

[Yossarian]

Well if I was a mother of 5 who wanted to get my kids back to Australia, but was threatened with arrest on arrival, I might consider:

- Faking my own death, and that of my husband.
- Engaging family and lefty sympathisers in Australia to campaign to bring the innocent orphaned kiddies back home.
- Once the dust has settled obtain a new passport and identity (these are available in Syria at every street corner) and try my luck at slipping back into Australia at some point through a myriad of avenues.

Worth a shot hey !

Incidentally, if she is indeed dead, then I can almost guarantee she was killed by her husband/ISIS goons for trying to leave "the caliphate", as has happened with every other person attempting to flee.

As for those wanting the kids to return, ask yourself if you want them living next door to you and your family? If the answer if no, then you have no right asking for them to be brought back to this country.

At this stage nobody is faking any death. The reports are based on social media posts hinting at such. There's been no coordinated attempt to fake a death.

As for the passports unless you want to get from Syria to another country and that assumes the border is functioning, what's the point? They could go Baghdad or Ankara or Dubai and ask for a new passport assuming they don't have their existing passports.

You can't guarantee you know how she died at all. The reports suggest she died as a result of poor medical care after a fairly routine operation which is as equally plausible as the scenario you seem certain about.

I also don't want to live next door to a gaol. Should we not have them? Everyone wants great neighbours but there are laws too. Do I want them backin Australia? Well frankly no but they are citizens with rights, particularly the minors.

 

[stryker]

These kids are no longer innocent. They have lived and breathed this lifestyle for too long. Letting them come back because life didn't turn out as planned is not good enough.
The ideology they would now posses means they are tainted goods and very dangerous.

 

[Abraham]

Come on BBF, you can't blame Abraham or any others as they are innocent victims whom had no say in the matter, just like the children of that idiot Sharouff

What exactly am I an innocent victim of?

This should be good for a laugh.

 

[Abraham]

At this stage nobody is faking any death. The reports are based on social media posts hinting at such. There's been no coordinated attempt to fake a death.

As for the passports unless you want to get from Syria to another country and that assumes the border is functioning, what's the point? They could go Baghdad or Ankara or Dubai and ask for a new passport assuming they don't have their existing passports.

You can't guarantee you know how she died at all. The reports suggest she died as a result of poor medical care after a fairly routine operation which is as equally plausible as the scenario you seem certain about.

I also don't want to live next door to a gaol. Should we not have them? Everyone wants great neighbours but there are laws too. Do I want them backin Australia? Well frankly no but they are citizens with rights, particularly the minors.

So your saying its not plausible that the couple would fake their own deaths, for their own different reasons? I'd beg to differ. it would be extremely advantageous to both of them to drop off the radar.

What's to stop her from taking on the identity of a local Syrian who has either fled the country or been killed? And then joining the waves of illegals flooding into Europe and the West seeking asylum? Or better yet, marrying a Australian under her new false identity and seeking direct access to Australia? All very do-able with the appropriate planning and connections.

As for the reason she may have died. The reports say she had an existing appendices issue before leaving Australia. Common sense says to get the matter operated on in Australia, as taxpayer's expense, and in modern and sanitary facilities, before fleeing to a third world hell hole with no capable medical infrastructure. If you are taking a calculated manoeuvre to flee the country, you would surely have enough brains to plan ahead and take care of existing, potentially deadly, medical problems beforehand.

As for the last comment about living next to a gaol (I hate that spelling by the way for some reason), well if you live next door to a jail its because you chose to buy a house next to a jail. Not so if your suddenly waking up one morning to find Mr Beheading's family has moved in (your also most likely a recipient of public housing, meaning your ability of packing up and moving to a different place are slim to none).

You trying to go off the 'facts', but the facts as we know them are mostly unknown and potentially orchestrated whispers coming from a land where there is no way to access reliable first hand information.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Come on BBF, you can't blame Abraham or any others as they are innocent victims whom had no say in the matter, just like the children of that idiot Sharouff

What exactly am I an innocent victim of?

This should be good for a laugh.

I thought it obvious that your naming was the only thing referred to, so I doubt it will tickle your funny bone.

If you do think "Mr Beheading" may still be alive, do you not think it is extremely odd that he has not been seen on any form of media for sooooooo long?

 

[Yossarian]

At this stage nobody is faking any death. The reports are based on social media posts hinting at such. There's been no coordinated attempt to fake a death.

As for the passports unless you want to get from Syria to another country and that assumes the border is functioning, what's the point? They could go Baghdad or Ankara or Dubai and ask for a new passport assuming they don't have their existing passports.

You can't guarantee you know how she died at all. The reports suggest she died as a result of poor medical care after a fairly routine operation which is as equally plausible as the scenario you seem certain about.

I also don't want to live next door to a gaol. Should we not have them? Everyone wants great neighbours but there are laws too. Do I want them backin Australia? Well frankly no but they are citizens with rights, particularly the minors.

So your saying its not plausible that the couple would fake their own deaths, for their own different reasons? I'd beg to differ. it would be extremely advantageous to both of them to drop off the radar.

What's to stop her from taking on the identity of a local Syrian who has either fled the country or been killed? And then joining the waves of illegals flooding into Europe and the West seeking asylum? Or better yet, marrying a Australian under her new false identity and seeking direct access to Australia? All very do-able with the appropriate planning and connections.

As for the reason she may have died. The reports say she had an existing appendices issue before leaving Australia. Common sense says to get the matter operated on in Australia, as taxpayer's expense, and in modern and sanitary facilities, before fleeing to a third world hell hole with no capable medical infrastructure. If you are taking a calculated manoeuvre to flee the country, you would surely have enough brains to plan ahead and take care of existing, potentially deadly, medical problems beforehand.

As for the last comment about living next to a gaol (I hate that spelling by the way for some reason), well if you live next door to a jail its because you chose to buy a house next to a jail. Not so if your suddenly waking up one morning to find Mr Beheading's family has moved in (your also most likely a recipient of public housing, meaning your ability of packing up and moving to a different place are slim to none).

You trying to go off the 'facts', but the facts as we know them are mostly unknown and potentially orchestrated whispers coming from a land where there is no way to access reliable first hand information.

No that's not what I said. Read it again. I said at this stage there is no evidence anyone involved has faked a death since they'vegone to little or no effort to sell said death real or otherwise. I make no comment on whether doing so is beneficial or not.

Again you're missing the point. Why would she need to do any of those things? She only has to get to an embassy and they will assist her in getting to Australia. She is still a citizen. No need to marry anyone or pass herself off as a Syrian.

The report i read suggested she was operated on overseas. I'll need to read it again. What follows from you is a series of what ifs based on nothing othet than speculation. It may or not be true.

Gaol is the correct spelling. Whether you dislike it and prefer an American spelling is irrelevant. Regardless the point still remains. You can't base refusals for returning Australians based on whether they'd make great neighbors. There are lots of people I'd rather not live next door to but that's not a determining factor on whether they get cleared at the border. It's a strawman's argument.

No I'm quite happy to go off established facts or reasonable assumptions based on facts rather than baseless speculation.

 

[Abraham]

No that's not what I said. Read it again. I said at this stage there is no evidence anyone involved has faked a death since they'vegone to little or no effort to sell said death real or otherwise. I make no comment on whether doing so is beneficial or not.

Again you're missing the point. Why would she need to do any of those things? She only has to get to an embassy and they will assist her in getting to Australia. She is still a citizen. No need to marry anyone or pass herself off as a Syrian.

The report i read suggested she was operated on overseas. I'll need to read it again. What follows from you is a series of what ifs based on nothing othet than speculation. It may or not be true.

Gaol is the correct spelling. Whether you dislike it and prefer an American spelling is irrelevant. Regardless the point still remains. You can't base refusals for returning Australians based on whether they'd make great neighbors. There are lots of people I'd rather not live next door to but that's not a determining factor on whether they get cleared at the border. It's a strawman's argument.

No I'm quite happy to go off established facts or reasonable assumptions based on facts rather than baseless speculation.

I am not missing any point. I understand what you have said and simply disagree with it.

You however are not immune from missing the point or not knowing the specific facts that lead me to my theory.

This bird has been threatened with arrest on arrival in Australia. Maximum 25 year jail (yes I know the correct spelling, but dislike it, if that's ok with you) terms were thrown around in the media.

The media has also speculated that her children could be made wards of the state should she return with them. These people in Syria do have access to the internet, and can read all of these stories popping up in the media.

So that's a fairly good reason why someone would undertake an orchestrated plan to disappear, rather than lob back into Australia and spend the next 25 years being passed around a women's prison somewhere in rural NSW.

You also are mistaken in that no, she cannot just turn up at any embassy, Australian citizen or not, since there are multiple first hand reports that anybody trying to flee raqqa is sentenced to death (that's a more likely cause of death than complications from appendicitis). And there are no functioning foreign embassies in raqqa, by the way. The city is basically a Jail.

My assumptions are all reasonable given the circumstances mentioned above. That's the beauty of a forum, you get to exchange ideas and opinions.

And finally the basis of my argument is not determining returning status on whether people would like to live next to this family. It was simply a question posed to forum members for pondering. I don't think the federal government takes their policy ideas from the Wests Tigers Forum. So the straw man just burnt down.

 

[Abraham]

If you do think "Mr Beheading" may still be alive, do you not think it is extremely odd that he has not been seen on any form of media for sooooooo long?

Not if you purposely want to appear dead to prevent the next coordinated drone attack from turning you into Syrian confetti.

Especially when your best mate was just recently turned into the same type of confetti after being a social media wannabe superhero.

 

[CocaCola]

I don't think Australia is the best place for these kids rehabilitation.

It may open old wounds in the future when the kids are identified by the community and peers. It would be more appropriate to give them a fresh start in a foreign country which has no political policies on the current conflict.

The focal point should be the guardians. Who out of the immediate or extended family are suitable caretakers.

As evil and gruesome as those images were, that young boy doesn't perceive the reality of his actions at such a young age. Monkey see monkey do. He's a kid and his perspective on the World can change in the right hands.

 

[Yossarian]

No that's not what I said. Read it again. I said at this stage there is no evidence anyone involved has faked a death since they'vegone to little or no effort to sell said death real or otherwise. I make no comment on whether doing so is beneficial or not.

Again you're missing the point. Why would she need to do any of those things? She only has to get to an embassy and they will assist her in getting to Australia. She is still a citizen. No need to marry anyone or pass herself off as a Syrian.

The report i read suggested she was operated on overseas. I'll need to read it again. What follows from you is a series of what ifs based on nothing othet than speculation. It may or not be true.

Gaol is the correct spelling. Whether you dislike it and prefer an American spelling is irrelevant. Regardless the point still remains. You can't base refusals for returning Australians based on whether they'd make great neighbors. There are lots of people I'd rather not live next door to but that's not a determining factor on whether they get cleared at the border. It's a strawman's argument.

No I'm quite happy to go off established facts or reasonable assumptions based on facts rather than baseless speculation.

I am not missing any point. I understand what you have said and simply disagree with it.

You however are not immune from missing the point or not knowing the specific facts that lead me to my theory.

This bird has been threatened with arrest on arrival in Australia. Maximum 25 year jail (yes I know the correct spelling, but dislike it, if that's ok with you) terms were thrown around in the media.

The media has also speculated that her children could be made wards of the state should she return with them. These people in Syria do have access to the internet, and can read all of these stories popping up in the media.

So that's a fairly good reason why someone would undertake an orchestrated plan to disappear, rather than lob back into Australia and spend the next 25 years being passed around a women's prison somewhere in rural NSW.

You also are mistaken in that no, she cannot just turn up at any embassy, Australian citizen or not, since there are multiple first hand reports that anybody trying to flee raqqa is sentenced to death (that's a more likely cause of death than complications from appendicitis). And there are no functioning foreign embassies in raqqa, by the way. The city is basically a Jail.

My assumptions are all reasonable given the circumstances mentioned above. That's the beauty of a forum, you get to exchange ideas and opinions.

And finally the basis of my argument is not determining returning status on whether people would like to live next to this family. It was simply a question posed to forum members for pondering. I don't think the federal government takes their policy ideas from the Wests Tigers Forum. So the straw man just burnt down.

You know you'd do a lot better if you read what was posted and stopped creating arguments for your own benefit. At the moment it just serves to highlight your ignorance. You clearly do not understand what I am saying or choose to ignore it.

She's not going to get 25 years gaol assuming she is still alive. She'd probably not serve time at all. The children wouldn't.

Now about embassies. You are combining three different arguments into one and shifting between them as it suits. I'm not talking about how easy it is to leave Raqqa. You are. I'm replying to your suggestion she'd obtain a fraudulent passport. That's not going to assist you in leaving IS controlled territory. Yes she can turn up to an embassy. This is just a fact. I'm not debating the ease or otherwise of doing so just that obtaining a false passport offers little or nothing.

I understand how a forum works. Possibly you might want to revisit your replies to those who disagree with you. I don't expect you or anyone else to agree with everything I say. I've been on the contrary side of enough discussions to realise that.

Who mentioned the government getting ideas from thisforum? It was you who made the argument that people shouldn't agree to the repatriation of this family if they didn't want to live next door to them as if that was a reasonable test of whether to allow citizens to return. I've pondered it and fight it to be an unreasonable consideration in such matters.