Tiger_Steve
New member
@ said:
Yeah that’s what I think as well - was awake last night trying to figure it out!!
Balmain 80s/90s
- Thread starter innsaneink
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Yeah that’s what I think as well - was awake last night trying to figure it out!!
jirskyr
Well-known member
@ said:
Good account.
Tigers may have had a star pack in the late 80s, but the club wasn't able to bring in new stars in the 90s as the older guys started winding up. Junior Pearce was replaced in 1991 by John Elias. 93 had Blocker in 93 by Derek McVey and Garry Jack by Morvin Edwards; Mark Geyer that year totally did not work out. Elias retired in 1994 and was replaced by Stephen Scahill (who? indeed).
We were already last in 1994 and then the ARL introduces 4 new sides.
I can't clearly recall the strategies of Alan Jones, I was only a teenager, but I remember clearly the gradual attrition of star players. I remember running out some really really ordinary teams, and the odd Paul Sironen-class player wasn't going to change the result against star-studded teams like Broncos.
I also remember in 1997 when they were talking about re-merging the two league comps, and there was an account in the paper about what each team had to offer the new NRL, because they had to cut teams. For Balmain, the only positives were Tim Brasher and Leichhardt Oval - and that was the same year he mucked about with his contract and ended up going to Souths.
Panthers had a similar sort of problem, from 1st to 9th 91-92, then only making 1 finals in the following 7 years. Raiders on the other hand won in 94 and were able to rotate in pretty good replacements for their retiring stars. I think it helped a lot to be a dominant team in that period 94-96, when all the best players and sides got the preferences, and all the poor teams stayed with the ARL, playing with ordinary players and a half-arsed comp at the bottom end.
gallagher
Well-known member
@ said:
I saw him play hooker in reserve grade, He ease so far out of his league. You're right about the big pads and headgear
@ said:
Those stats don't tell the whole story. Jones was a horrid Coach.
Basically he coached the Wallabies after coaching high school Rugby. With Rugby he knew he could not coach the forwards, so he hired a Forwards head coach. With the backs he worked on skills and skill development. He wasn't very strategic.
While the Wallabies had great success, many in the team hated him. He picked favourites and lost the confidence of many others.
Balmain was Nr2 on the ladder and picked Jones. That I do not know why.
Jones was lost in league and did not bother learning the sport. He would often put his Nr 1,2,3 up front and have his 13 going fullback. He moved the team to an afternoon schedule instead of morning training which annoyed players. He had elite League players in Blocker, Elias, etc but kept teaching skills and fitness rather then game plans.
He said if Balmain was not NR1 that year he would quit. He was a train wreck. Big mouths who can't back up what they say tend to be that way.
*this is from Christopher Hitchins biography of Jones.
LeichhardtTiger
Well-known member
@ said:
A blind man could've coached the Wallabies back in 84 with Mark Ella, Nick Farr Jones, David Campese, Simon Poidevan, Roger Gould, Topo, Michael Lynagh, Steve Williams, Tom Lawton, Andrew Slack etc.
851
Well-known member
@ said:
Junior was a great player, but a crap coach, how he got the gig for the first WestsTigers season has always baffled and annoyed me.
851
Well-known member
@ said:
100% agree, a neutral coach should have been chosen, as neither coaches had a glowing record, it would have been better and smarter, two things previous boards new nothing about.
jirskyr
Well-known member
@ said:
Ah as to the "why", I believe I do know the explanation. Story is that Tigers were struggling to pay the bills and Alan Jones could guarantee sponsorship and commercial coverage via his radio/advertising contacts. As said before, reports are also he did not take a coaching fee, or at least not much of a contract, so he was cheap and a strong business case.
Obviously long-run a sustained lack of success does dent any other positive business operations, but I believe that was one of the strongest selling points.
Tiger_Steve
New member
This thread has got me thinking. We were in 88 and 89 grandfinals. I assume this would have been good for profitability. How did we go from that to close to broke in under 5 years??
bigsiro
Well-known member
I think it's funny that everyone points to Alan Jones.
But that's because it's true.
He single-handedly destroyed the soul of the club. Will never forgive him.
But that's because it's true.
He single-handedly destroyed the soul of the club. Will never forgive him.
@ said:
The Sydney Tigers thing was a reaction to the downtown. They flirted with Gosford at one point but the local league people didn't want to know about it. Played some games in Melbourne at one point which was a fizzer. Then came the name and venue change
The idea was to appeal to a wider base than the inner west. Bulldogs changed to Sydney Bulldogs, Roosters changed their name. All it really did was alienate existing fans and add no fans. Parra Stadium never felt like home - you felt like an outsider at home games. Combined with a terrible jumper, theme song and the name change it was too much. The JV was less dislocating!
Yeah Sydney Olympic played there. By the time of SL we were back at Leichhardt.
@ said:
I don't think that the Leagues Club was ever that profitable and when the casino opened in the late 90's it had an impact on them. I recall talking to the Leagues Club CEO around that time that said that for poker machine prizes over $1000 the club needed to pay by cheque but the customer could talk it to the casino and cash it and play there.
@ said:
Elias was supposed to be replaced by Michael Brown (this is straining my memory) who was his understudy for years but when the spot opened up he couldn't cut it.
Jack was a simple replacement by Brasher. My memory of Morvin Edwards is him being an ordinary Kiwi who'd occasionally play 5/8.
John Elias was there in the 80s I think. He was half decent. Good footwork.
Spot on with Brasher. He stuffed around and the contract pulled. But we had Shannon Nevin coming in and he was just as good right?!!
Then there was Steve Edmed who just couldn't step up without the support.
Jones was an idiot. His only idea was running the ball. The side wasn't as good but a decent coach could have made the finals.
As for what happened to them like others have suggested the recruitment was poor. They were never really a club to buy stars from other clubs but mostly grew their own (juniors, country players, fringe first graders etc) and when the new batch came through they just weren't up to it (Michael Brown was to follow on from Elias but his defence was poor so never really made it. ).
I think it was Warren Ryan that said that the orange (or lemon) had been squeezed dry and he couldn't get more out of them. Hence Jones came in and yes, he worked for nothing.
If you get the chance, and are interested look, for a book titled "Something More Than Victory" where a guy called Adrian Zupp follows Jones around during the first year and lists how it all went from the strategy to the speeches. I reckon it would be motivating to be coached by Jones initially but how long would all the talk last for.
Jones was all talk and played favourites hence he got rid on Freeman for Brian Smith and by all accounts some loved him because he gets involved in their lives and helps them off field and some would hate him because of who he is.
As for Jones and Balmain I think it is all summed up in this article by Peter FitzSimons when the Robbie Farah drama was going on….
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/why-alan-jones-should-be-last-person-criticising-wests-tigers-over-robbie-farah-dispute-20150902-gjd87s.html
In terms of Clark I recall being at a game at Leichhardt and the other team got a penalty and kicked for touch on his wing but it was a poor kick and Clark could have stopped it going into touch but because he didn't know the rules he let it go. If you can't get the basics right.....
The move to Parra Stadium and the purple strip on the Sydney Tigers jersey was a way of increasing their market. It was suggested that almost two thirds of fans that went to Leichhardt Oval actually drove past Parra Stadium so in theory it should have been better with improved facilities parking etc. Crowds were down and we were no good at the time.
The move back to Leichhardt was very popular (as it is today).
I think it was Warren Ryan that said that the orange (or lemon) had been squeezed dry and he couldn't get more out of them. Hence Jones came in and yes, he worked for nothing.
If you get the chance, and are interested look, for a book titled "Something More Than Victory" where a guy called Adrian Zupp follows Jones around during the first year and lists how it all went from the strategy to the speeches. I reckon it would be motivating to be coached by Jones initially but how long would all the talk last for.
Jones was all talk and played favourites hence he got rid on Freeman for Brian Smith and by all accounts some loved him because he gets involved in their lives and helps them off field and some would hate him because of who he is.
As for Jones and Balmain I think it is all summed up in this article by Peter FitzSimons when the Robbie Farah drama was going on….
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/why-alan-jones-should-be-last-person-criticising-wests-tigers-over-robbie-farah-dispute-20150902-gjd87s.html
In terms of Clark I recall being at a game at Leichhardt and the other team got a penalty and kicked for touch on his wing but it was a poor kick and Clark could have stopped it going into touch but because he didn't know the rules he let it go. If you can't get the basics right.....
The move to Parra Stadium and the purple strip on the Sydney Tigers jersey was a way of increasing their market. It was suggested that almost two thirds of fans that went to Leichhardt Oval actually drove past Parra Stadium so in theory it should have been better with improved facilities parking etc. Crowds were down and we were no good at the time.
The move back to Leichhardt was very popular (as it is today).
@ said:
The Leagues club was profitable. Not as profitable as other clubs but it still generated a profit. I don't recall them ever not paying a grant. The casino was bad for business though.
LeichhardtTiger
Well-known member
"The move to Parra Stadium and the purple strip on the Sydney Tigers jersey was a way of increasing their market. It was suggested that almost two thirds of fans that went to Leichhardt Oval actually drove past Parra Stadium so in theory it should have been better with improved facilities parking etc. Crowds were down and we were no good at the time".
My mate & I got season tickets in the Eastern Stand - we picked seats equivalent to our spot on the Hill at LO. There weren't many people which was good cos we never had to line up for beers. So, 1st Game Season 2, we go to the bar for a beer & The barman remembered us from Season 1\. He said to his co-worker "Have a look at these guys. Sorry to say this pal, but they'll be here right thru the season but even they can't justify me paying you once the Tigers season collapses again!"
My mate & I got season tickets in the Eastern Stand - we picked seats equivalent to our spot on the Hill at LO. There weren't many people which was good cos we never had to line up for beers. So, 1st Game Season 2, we go to the bar for a beer & The barman remembered us from Season 1\. He said to his co-worker "Have a look at these guys. Sorry to say this pal, but they'll be here right thru the season but even they can't justify me paying you once the Tigers season collapses again!"
