Balmain Gone ?

[alien]

Ahhh…. OK.
I don't mind where they play, As long as it isn't against each other!!

yep well it wouldnt be against eachother if they go to wests one year and balmain the next. newtown and norths are in the nsw cup, we should keep wests magpies and balmain alive in the nsw cup. even illawarra and mounties will have a team in nsw cup next year

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

we will be able to keep alot more players from the under 20s squad each year if we have 2 nsw cup teams. but its not fair if balmain gets all of the wt nrl squad players who dont play 1st grade that week.

Honest question here Alien: How many former U20's can you see graduating to first grade via two state cup squads instead of one? What is the real likelihood that we are going to need to house four props (I use that position as an example,) that are of possible NRL quality in state cup for whatever reason?

Despite our combined juniors base we still have players from other teams on the books that have been developed by other clubs (using our last run on side as an example):

1\. Moltzen - Central Coast
2\. Tuqiri - Brisbane
3\. Ayshford - Easts
**4\. Lawrence - Wests**
5\. Ryan - Illawarra
6\. Marshall - Keebra Park
7\. Lui - Keebra Park
13\. Heighington - Central Coast
12\. Ellis - UK
**11\. Fulton - Wests**
10\. Galloway - Cronulla
**9\. Farah - Balmain/Canterbury
8\. Gibbs - Wests**

**15\. Groat - Griffith/Wests
16\. Woods - Balmain**
17\. Flanagan - UK
18\. Utai - Canterbury

Six players have come from within our own juniors ranks. We don't need two teams to support U20's graduates who may show later promise. If they aren't true prodigies it will be rare if they get picked up after that, and if they do, they will be a fringe first grader.

if we wanted to keep 10 players from the under 20s each year when they are too old to keep in under 20s then we will have to let go alot of players from the 1 nsw cup team every year. if we do only have 1 nsw cup team eventually we will let wrong players go. its not a matter of if but when

You're clutching at straws. By your logic, if we retain ten U20 graduates every year, that's five players per state cup side. Do you honestly reckon we will let go of five players from BRET or Wests every season to make way for U20's? Again by your logic in seven years, both teams will be full of players between the ages of 20-26\. That will not happen. If anything, this is a case to extend the U20's back to U23's.

Again shown by my original post above, You will be lucky to see one U20 graduate once every 3 years come through our ranks to FG, so it reinforces the argument that if they are not already getting a taste of FG, chances are they may never play FG and are resigned to linger in state cup until they give it away or another team picks them up.

If the IC has any commonsense and wants to streamline the league, they will force all clubs to field a team in a unified "state cup" reserve grade competition.

 

[alien]

You're clutching at straws. By your logic, if we retain ten U20 graduates every year, that's five players per state cup side. Do you honestly reckon we will let go of five players from BRET or Wests every season to make way for U20's?

yes why not?

Again by your logic in seven years, both teams will be full of players between the ages of 20-26\. That will not happen. If anything, this is a case to extend the U20's back to U23's.

no we wouldnt keep all of them until they are 26

Again shown by my original post above, You will be lucky to see one U20 graduate once every 3 years come through our ranks to FG, so it reinforces the argument that if they are not already getting a taste of FG, chances are they may never play FG and are resigned to linger in state cup until they give it away or another team picks them up.

If the IC has any commonsense and wants to streamline the league, they will force all clubs to field a team in a unified "state cup" reserve grade competition.

we are getting more than 1 player every 3 years from under 20s playing in 1st grade now. having more room in nsw cup means we wouldnt have to rush some players into 1st grade and would also give players like miller more of an opportunity to play nsw cup next year getting ready for 1st grade instead of playing in an under 20s comp which has terrible defense and is further from away from 1st grade than nsw cup

the ic might make a national reserve grade comp but we can worry about that if/when that happens. there wouldnt really be much difference to the quality of the nsw cup/ reserve grade teams because most nsw cup teams have players from nrl squads anyway

 

[Chappo]

Wests and Balmain appear to be having separate trial days for their Matts and Ball sides, I believe a few Wests trials may already have occurred?

 

[1_4_chicken_chips]

I was at the under 13s developement trials last thursday night and the boys wore a jersy which had the Weststigers emblem on them.4 games were played and the final game saw both sides in western suburbs jerseys .black with white vee,and black and white bars.Group 6 were part of the games along with the Magpies juniors .1 Kid really stood out in the last two games.A centre who played in jersey 3 in the 3rd game , and jersey 4 in the last game.This kid was raw , but gee he has some talent big strong with ball skills.

 

[Blackandwhite]

Wests and Balmain appear to be having separate trial days for their Matts and Ball sides, I believe a few Wests trials may already have occurred?

Balmain as well as Magpies will both have Harold Matts and SG Ball sides next year and for plenty of years after that.

Next year there will only be one NSW cup team called either Wests Tigers or Wests Magpies….wouldn't worry me if it was called Balmain Tigers.
It's all the same to me its all for Wests Tigers and one team in NRL one NYC and one State Cup.

 

[alien]

**I was at the under 13s developement trials last thursday night and the boys wore a jersy which had the Weststigers emblem on them**.4 games were played and the final game saw both sides in western suburbs jerseys .black with white vee,and black and white bars.Group 6 were part of the games along with the Magpies juniors .1 Kid really stood out in the last two games.A centre who played in jersey 3 in the 3rd game , and jersey 4 in the last game.This kid was raw , but gee he has some talent big strong with ball skills.

does camp concord help fund the jerseys and equipment of those teams

 

[alien]

Next year there will only be one NSW cup team called either Wests Tigers or Wests Magpies…..

when will we know

 

[1_4_chicken_chips]

**I was at the under 13s developement trials last thursday night and the boys wore a jersy which had the Weststigers emblem on them**.4 games were played and the final game saw both sides in western suburbs jerseys .black with white vee,and black and white bars.Group 6 were part of the games along with the Magpies juniors .1 Kid really stood out in the last two games.A centre who played in jersey 3 in the 3rd game , and jersey 4 in the last game.This kid was raw , but gee he has some talent big strong with ball skills.

does camp concord help fund the jerseys and equipment of those teams

Im not sure but all the officials and the boys already picked in the summer squad were wearing Weststigers gear all round.ie socks, shorts,polos ,jacket all black with the weststigers emblem.

 

[Blackandwhite]

Next year there will only be one NSW cup team called either Wests Tigers or Wests Magpies…..

when will we know

Might get some info at the Grand Final Lunch at Le Montage on Friday.

 

[alien]

so what is wrong with having 2 nsw cup teams so we can keep more juniors but all of the wt nrl squad players going to one nsw cup team like this year. they should just make it so the nrl squad players go to balmain one year and then wests the next

 

[alien]

Next year there will only be one NSW cup team called either Wests Tigers or Wests Magpies…..

when will we know

Might get some info at the Grand Final Lunch at Le Montage on Friday.

ok thanks

 

[matty119]

so what is wrong with having 2 nsw cup teams so we can keep more juniors but all of the wt nrl squad players going to one nsw cup team like this year. they should just make it so the nrl squad players go to balmain one year and then wests the next

It's not smart financially, or for the good of the system. We need a single WT State Cup team, no Balmain or Wests. Keeping the NYC kids because they MIGHT go on is just wasting money, and switching them between clubs does nothing for the players that are trying to make that next step, because they have to adjust each year to different clubs, different coaches, playing styles, systems, cultures, it's just not smart to do. One club, just pick a coach and play under one banner. Where they play isn't an issue, split the games if they must, and play in a unified WT jersey. Two great histories, but that is what they are, histories. Two histories, one brand, ONE CLUB!

 

[alien]

so what is wrong with having 2 nsw cup teams so we can keep more juniors but all of the wt nrl squad players going to one nsw cup team like this year. they should just make it so the nrl squad players go to balmain one year and then wests the next

It's not smart financially, or for the good of the system. We need a single WT State Cup team, no Balmain or Wests. Keeping the NYC kids because they MIGHT go on is just wasting money, and switching them between clubs does nothing for the players that are trying to make that next step, because they have to adjust each year to different clubs, different coaches, playing styles, systems, cultures, it's just not smart to do. One club, just pick a coach and play under one banner. Where they play isn't an issue, split the games if they must, and play in a unified WT jersey. Two great histories, but that is what they are, histories. Two histories, one brand, ONE CLUB!

stop talking about money. wt dont fund balmain or wests magpies. if there is a wt nsw cup team then they will have to fund a nsw cup team. 8 players going from wests to balmain then back to wests is hardly going to harm them. most of the fringe first graders dont stay for too long anyway

 

[Guest]

so what is wrong with having 2 nsw cup teams so we can keep more juniors but all of the wt nrl squad players going to one nsw cup team like this year. they should just make it so the nrl squad players go to balmain one year and then wests the next

It's not smart financially, or for the good of the system. We need a single WT State Cup team, no Balmain or Wests. Keeping the NYC kids because they MIGHT go on is just wasting money, and switching them between clubs does nothing for the players that are trying to make that next step, because they have to adjust each year to different clubs, different coaches, playing styles, systems, cultures, it's just not smart to do. One club, just pick a coach and play under one banner. Where they play isn't an issue, split the games if they must, and play in a unified WT jersey. Two great histories, but that is what they are, histories. Two histories, one brand, ONE CLUB!

stop talking about money. wt dont fund balmain or wests magpies. if there is a wt nsw cup team then they will have to fund a nsw cup team. 8 players going from wests to balmain then back to wests is hardly going to harm them. most of the fringe first graders dont stay for too long anyway

Like it or not but money does come into the equation alien. Mattie's post makes sense. Keeping 2 state cup sides does not.

 

[Staks]

You peeps keep going around in circles. It's ground hog-day everyday with some of you.

It's pretty simple really. Financially. The Wests Tigers will have the same costs whether it be one or two state cup teams.

If Wests Ashfield decide to continue financially supporting the Wests Magpies in the State Cup then they will be around next season. If that happens then Wests Tigers will pour there resources into Balmain, and keep them alive again.

 

[alien]

so what is wrong with having 2 nsw cup teams so we can keep more juniors but all of the wt nrl squad players going to one nsw cup team like this year. they should just make it so the nrl squad players go to balmain one year and then wests the next

It's not smart financially, or for the good of the system. We need a single WT State Cup team, no Balmain or Wests. Keeping the NYC kids because they MIGHT go on is just wasting money, and switching them between clubs does nothing for the players that are trying to make that next step, because they have to adjust each year to different clubs, different coaches, playing styles, systems, cultures, it's just not smart to do. One club, just pick a coach and play under one banner. Where they play isn't an issue, split the games if they must, and play in a unified WT jersey. Two great histories, but that is what they are, histories. Two histories, one brand, ONE CLUB!

stop talking about money. wt dont fund balmain or wests magpies. if there is a wt nsw cup team then they will have to fund a nsw cup team. 8 players going from wests to balmain then back to wests is hardly going to harm them. most of the fringe first graders dont stay for too long anyway

Like it or not but money does come into the equation alien. Mattie's post makes sense.

no it doesnt. read my post again

 

[tiger4ever]

agree with matty…its makes sense that its the right way to go......If it was a advantage to keep 2 sides the richer clubs would field 2 teams also.

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

This whole discussion is about money and the ability of the partners to meet their financial obligations to Wests Tigers AND their respective football clubs. Realistically, both football clubs are completely reliant on the leagues clubs for the following:

1\. Fund their state cup and junior programs
2\. Cover losses of Wests Tigers

A quick snapshot of the leagues clubs as follows

- Wests Ashfield provided $150,000 to Wests Tigers and $600,000 to Western Suburbs Football Club in 2010\. The Leagues club had net income of $1.9m last financial year
- Wests Campbelltown had a net income of $3.8m last financial year.
- Balmain Leagues lost $3.1m last financial year. It contributed $932,000 to Balmain Football Club in season 2010 (assume $150,000 of this to Wests Tigers and remainder to Balmain State cup etc)

You could argue there is approximately $600k - $700k that could be saved if there was just the one state cup team. That would be a healthy saving for any of the three leagues clubs given their respective net incomes. Leagues clubs are not charities, they are businesses aiming to make a profit on behalf of their members. Merging the teams or letting one team disappear is an opportunity to save money. You would think the recruitment staff should be able determine the second best 25 players instead of keeping 50 on the books.

 

[Staks]

Gary your figures are correct.

But, the costs to the Wests Tigers will remain the same whether it be one or two state cup sides as they are only permitted a certain amount on the 2nd tier cap. Wests Ashfield have funded the Wests Magpies not Wests Tigers. Any cost saving in fielding only one State Cup team will only benefit the respective Leagues Club.