Balmain seek extension..Wests Tigers

[magpiecol]

It is a sad day when most people want to kill off one of your parents.

Personally I would like to see ( if Balmain have no further affiliation with West Tigers) that the club revert to Western Suburbs with a Magpie as the logo.

No Balmain - no Tiger - no me.

Can't continue without a family history myself.

Sorry our club is the Weststigers and the Tiger is our logo …I supported the Magpies for over 50 yrs there dead and buried ..this club is the future for all of us now and the future that the younger generation only know .If by chance the Wests group buy into the venture further nothing will change and nor should it as I said in my last post take the emotion out of this.. the Magpie I supported most of my life is in the past and should never be resurrected My club is the Weststigers no other!

Snake, like yourself I followed Wests since 1958 and then the Weststigers from 2000\. However, the Weststigers is made up of the Balmain Tigers and the Western Suburbs Magpies.

If the Balmain Tigers are no longer, then that just leaves the Western Suburbs Magpies does it not?

Now if I was the WSM and I had the sole ownership and financial responsibility for the team, then it would be called the Wests Magpies. Simple really.

Don't underestimate the popularity of the Magpie.

 

[Benjirific]

That's the thing though Hammer - They went broke AT Rozelle. They were in debt millions…

Not true at all.

They were trading profitably prior to the directive that they had to buy up half the houses in Rozelle to proceed with the development.

So no, they didn't go broke at Rozelle prior to the development fiasco.

Edit-
I did have old financials laying around from the early 2000's, but don't know where they are anymore.

However I do agree that if, after all these years of facing extinction, if the best they can do is ask for anther year, then its time to say goodnight. Maybe with more professional leadership they would have implemented plan B, C, and D by now.

Its sad, but as long as there is a Tiger on the emblem, Wests Tigers will remain my team no matter what.

I thought I read that the Tigers Club income was going down due to the casino taking business and council suggested or someone did to enlarge the block to make better facilities to attract customers back. This led to borrowing the money to buy up the properties. Then downhill from there. It all comes back to the state govt allowing gambling facilities into private hands such as casinos and pubs. It is easy money with which purely the opportunity is provided by the state so should have been kept for non profit entities only. When Packer gets his Bangaroo casino up and running it will be worse for other RL clubs as well. Also for any new Tigers club.

While the casino certainly impacted on trading, they were still profitable when the Council told them to purchase surrounding properties. The property purchases was advised (by Council) so they could justify a larger FSR (3.9:1) in the planning controls.

In relation to Packer's casino at Barangaroo, this shouldn't impact on the club sphere because his casino it is purely a VIP, high-roller Casino. They won't be taking pokie money from clubs.

 

[Bob]

It is a sad day when most people want to kill off one of your parents.

Personally I would like to see ( if Balmain have no further affiliation with West Tigers) that the club revert to Western Suburbs with a Magpie as the logo.

No Balmain - no Tiger - no me.

Can't continue without a family history myself.

Why?? You would lose over 2/3 of your supporter base for what; the changing of an animal on a shirt?

( I got to 2/3 by subtracting the "new" Wests Tigers fans that have no ties to either Balmain or Wests plus the old Balmain faithful. Obviously I haven't done an exact study)

Even the premise of what you are saying is false. When you liken it to one of your parents dying you want to revert the name??? So if your dad ever died you would take your mothers maiden name?

Business or emotional - it just doesn't make sense!

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

Benjirific, They may take pokie money away from clubs because the same gamblers will change habit of gambling to non pokeie just to check out new swishy facilities of new casino. The casino's do all sorts of promos to get bods in. I thought there was already some concern about them somehow getting around the rules?

 

[Snake]

That's the thing though Hammer - They went broke AT Rozelle. They were in debt millions…

Not true at all.

They were trading profitably prior to the directive that they had to buy up half the houses in Rozelle to proceed with the development.

So no, they didn't go broke at Rozelle prior to the development fiasco.

Edit-
I did have old financials laying around from the early 2000's, but don't know where they are anymore.

However I do agree that if, after all these years of facing extinction, if the best they can do is ask for anther year, then its time to say goodnight. Maybe with more professional leadership they would have implemented plan B, C, and D by now.

Its sad, but as long as there is a Tiger on the emblem, Wests Tigers will remain my team no matter what.

I thought I read that the Tigers Club income was going down due to the casino taking business and council suggested or someone did to enlarge the block to make better facilities to attract customers back. This led to borrowing the money to buy up the properties. Then downhill from there. It all comes back to the state govt allowing gambling facilities into private hands such as casinos and pubs. It is easy money with which purely the opportunity is provided by the state so should have been kept for non profit entities only. When Packer gets his Bangaroo casino up and running it will be worse for other RL clubs as well. Also for any new Tigers club.

Just a note the Packer Casino is only for high rollers No pokies or gaming for the general public only restaurants/ events etc and the 6 star hotel .

 

[cktiger]

I can't see why they don't sue State Labor and the local council.
They were told to buy surrounding properties to be compliant with the DA and did so.
They were then told to clear out while the Metro was built and then it was cancelled.
Plenty of wrong advice there.

 

[Snake]

It is a sad day when most people want to kill off one of your parents.

Personally I would like to see ( if Balmain have no further affiliation with West Tigers) that the club revert to Western Suburbs with a Magpie as the logo.

No Balmain - no Tiger - no me.

Can't continue without a family history myself.

Sorry our club is the Weststigers and the Tiger is our logo …I supported the Magpies for over 50 yrs there dead and buried ..this club is the future for all of us now and the future that the younger generation only know .If by chance the Wests group buy into the venture further nothing will change and nor should it as I said in my last post take the emotion out of this.. the Magpie I supported most of my life is in the past and should never be resurrected My club is the Weststigers no other!

Snake, like yourself I followed Wests since 1958 and then the Weststigers from 2000\. However, the Weststigers is made up of the Balmain Tigers and the Western Suburbs Magpies.

If the Balmain Tigers are no longer, then that just leaves the Western Suburbs Magpies does it not?

Now if I was the WSM and I had the sole ownership and financial responsibility for the team, then it would be called the Wests Magpies. Simple really.

Don't underestimate the popularity of the Magpie.

Most who supported the Magpies with me are in Rookwood and my 3 grandkids and there mates like to watch the Magpies fly around ..that is about the sum of it mate .

 

[kiwitiger]

**It is a sad day when most people want to kill off one of your parents.\
\**
Personally I would like to see ( if Balmain have no further affiliation with West Tigers) that the club revert to Western Suburbs with a Magpie as the logo.

No Balmain - no Tiger - no me.

Can't continue without a family history myself.

When a parent is on life support and they have been for a while (with no hope of improvement), then sometimes pulling the plug ( as they call it) is the humane thing to do.

I sort of feel in the next 12 months the plug maybe pulled

 

[Geo]

It is a sad day when most people want to kill off one of your parents.

Personally I would like to see ( if Balmain have no further affiliation with West Tigers) that the club revert to Western Suburbs with a Magpie as the logo.

No Balmain - no Tiger - no me.

Can't continue without a family history myself.

This seems very odd to me…you do realise Russ that there is no Balmain now ...hasn't been for nearly 18 months....they have no voting rights on the Board as it currently stands...

I don't know how many times it has to be said..The Wests Tigers licence and brand is between the Wests Tigers and the NRL by NRL deed it can't be changed...

Despite Col's bleetings above..Wests Ashfield (Group) have no desire to bring back the Magpies they are on record as stating this...on top of that the NRL wouldn't allow it...

Although Wests Group have 1st and last option to buy Balmain's shareholding I'm not so sure the even want to and will be quite happy to retain their 50% share in the Wests Tigers....that would leave Balmain to sell their share to other investors within 6 months to clear their debt....

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

Snake, you are right about Magpie supporters. Auburn and Lidcombe areas would have virtually no Magpie supporters now - they have either moved "down" or moved out. Would be the same for most other areas I would imagine. It is all round ball now.

 

[diedpretty]

People forget that Balmain could have stood alone,they were in a similar position to Manly & Souths,needed a benefactor/sponsors to ease themselves into a better financial position but the Sydney Tigers fiasco meant the Directors took the easy option of the ARL's pot of fools gold.I won't name any names,other than Alan Jones(LOL),but the Directors were warned some potential backers won't get involved with Wests for a variety of reasons,and thats exactly what happened….what a mess.....

What a turnaround hey! Now no one wants to get involved with Balmain.

 

[Snake]

Snake, you are right about Magpie supporters. Auburn and Lidcombe areas would have virtually no Magpie supporters now - they have either moved "down" or moved out. Would be the same for most other areas I would imagine. It is all round ball now.

Demographics change I would think that around the old Balmain club would be the same, the many have moved to other areas for what ever reason. Maybe the Tigers club could move to another area seeing the Markets site is trading well food for thought if they will have to pay rent could be a winner it seems no one wants them at the old site anyway..

 

[diedpretty]

Rozelle was a going concern before council advised the club to buy up land. And the development was on track until the GFC.

Balmain did not need to merge with WM but it was the sensible option at the time. In terms of club backing a standalone Balmain would be on par with Newcastle, NQ or even Souths. Plus they would have been better placed to privatise. This is not to say I disagree with what took place in terms of the JV but I think your assessment is overly harsh.

Now whether WT should assist keeping Balmain afloat is an interesting question. If Balmain has no direct interest in WT there's nothing to stop the juniors affiliating with a different NRL club. So bye bye the Sironens, Mitch Moses, Luke Brooks, Robbie Farah etc etc. Our ability to attract and retain outside talent is already poor. Losing a vital junior feed could be a total disaster.

How is it overly harsh?

Balmain have proven (time and time again) they CAN NOT fund 1/2 an NRL team - How on gods green earth were they ever going to pay for a Team alone? Are you remembering the merge money they have blown?, Benny's bail out money? and the NRL grant that is also gone… And you guessed it BALMAIN ARE STILL BROKE!!

And the Juniors you mention - Are being funded by Ryde Eastwood and Ashfield... They seem to be doing a fine job with them.

You will find, When the group that owns the club actually has money, And isn't trying to pay back debts from a decade ago - Our position in the player market will also improve....

Because it's my opinion. You can shout all you want but I disagree with your assessment. The teams I referred to operate NRL teams with little or no licensed club contributions.

The juniors thing is about affiliation not funding. It's still up to Balmain Football Club as to what it does with its juniors.

**And neither Balmain nor Wests have ever funded half of the NRL team. That's one of the greay untruths. The NRL grant massively dwarfs club contributions**.

That's a bit of a furphy - all clubs rely heavily on NRL grants. The point is Balmain don't meet the financial arrangement they entered in to - Wests Group do.

 

[gallagher]

How would Balmain's share be valued? And by who?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

There hasn't been a Balmain for 16 seasons.

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

Benjirific, the Tigers if thinking long term should have been buying up surrounding properties since sort of Day One for the longer term. Rents received would have paid off. The Dooleys Catholic Club at LIdcombe owns half the ruddy shopping centre and they were so tiny 40 years ago. Maybe it helps not having to help finance footie teams.

 

[Benjirific]

Benjirific, the Tigers if thinking long term should have been buying up surrounding properties since sort of Day One for the longer term. Rents received would have paid off. The Dooleys Catholic Club at LIdcombe owns half the ruddy shopping centre and they were so tiny 40 years ago. Maybe it helps not having to help finance footie teams.

It definitely helps not having to fund footy teams. If you look at the really big and thriving leagues clubs in NSW, the majority only fund NSW Cup, RMC or SS teams at best, so not a whole lot of money is going out.

 

[Yossarian]

Rozelle was a going concern before council advised the club to buy up land. And the development was on track until the GFC.

Balmain did not need to merge with WM but it was the sensible option at the time. In terms of club backing a standalone Balmain would be on par with Newcastle, NQ or even Souths. Plus they would have been better placed to privatise. This is not to say I disagree with what took place in terms of the JV but I think your assessment is overly harsh.

Now whether WT should assist keeping Balmain afloat is an interesting question. If Balmain has no direct interest in WT there's nothing to stop the juniors affiliating with a different NRL club. So bye bye the Sironens, Mitch Moses, Luke Brooks, Robbie Farah etc etc. Our ability to attract and retain outside talent is already poor. Losing a vital junior feed could be a total disaster.

How is it overly harsh?

Balmain have proven (time and time again) they CAN NOT fund 1/2 an NRL team - How on gods green earth were they ever going to pay for a Team alone? Are you remembering the merge money they have blown?, Benny's bail out money? and the NRL grant that is also gone… And you guessed it BALMAIN ARE STILL BROKE!!

And the Juniors you mention - Are being funded by Ryde Eastwood and Ashfield... They seem to be doing a fine job with them.

You will find, When the group that owns the club actually has money, And isn't trying to pay back debts from a decade ago - Our position in the player market will also improve....

Because it's my opinion. You can shout all you want but I disagree with your assessment. The teams I referred to operate NRL teams with little or no licensed club contributions.

The juniors thing is about affiliation not funding. It's still up to Balmain Football Club as to what it does with its juniors.

**And neither Balmain nor Wests have ever funded half of the NRL team. That's one of the greay untruths. The NRL grant massively dwarfs club contributions**.

That's a bit of a furphy - all clubs rely heavily on NRL grants. The point is Balmain don't meet the financial arrangement they entered in to - Wests Group do.

Um no you said the same thing. All clubs rely heavily on NRL grants. My comment was in answer to the suggestion that either Balmain or Wests contribution to the WT is a make or break thing. The question is whether the potential losses from the Balmain contribution are equal to or greater than the loss of juniors, fans and goodwill from shutting out Balmain and whether all this is worth Wests Ashfield taking majority ownership, I'd argue the answers are no for both.

 

[Curaeus]

Read a while back, I think on this forum, that Wests Ashfield were not too keen on buying out Balmain's share in the event of a default by Balmain. If this is so, what then happens? Don't suppose anyone can force Wests to buy Balmain out.

 

[Defiant]

My understanding is West's are happy to buy out the balmain share. They even promised to keep the weststigers name no matter what goes down. Their main funding source Ashfield is only 3k's from Rozelle.

I'm kind of agnostic about how this goes down. Leichardt council is most at fault imo.

They do like to vote Green around there.