Benji 2025 and Beyond

[Lestronge]

Yes you can most definitely attribute the 23 spoon to him.
I attribute the 22 spoon to Sheens and his knifing of Madge after we just re-signed him, with no contingency in place. He and Benji spent 5 months preparing for 23 whilst Noddy was trapped under the bus with no help.
So Benji had that 5 months plus the whole preseason with Sheens by his side apparently planning and getting a crash course in coaching 101. It was clear Benji coached the side last year with Tim looking over his shoulder. Towards the end, he was in total control.
As for all the debutants this year….were they all required? Trying to make him the victim is quite sad mate. Open your eyes.

That’s bullshit ! The 22 spoon is all Madge . That team was his , he admitted as much and they didn’t perform for him , so he got axed .
The 23 team played like a sheenius team , only without the skill , and if Benji came in he openly admitted he was just re-enforcing sheens strategy because it was too late to make drastic changes .
These excuses for Madge are tiresome , and recency bias because he won a couple of games with one of the best NSW teams we have ever fielded .
For a guy like you who talks about things accountability all day , you sure do like making excuses for your favourites like Madge

 

[BAGNF05]

In some ways it’s an unfair comparison. Our organisational structure operates differently. We have a completely different decision making process and blurred areas of responsibility which makes it difficult to assess the effectiveness of the coach.
The Dogs know when and who does the barking.
The funniest thing I heard was when the board told a journo Brooks was being dropped for the upcoming weekend game, but nobody told Brooks or the coach.
Offering some advice on departure…
”To be honest, I don’t really know who makes the decisions here,” Brooks told the media.
“Just everyone being on the same page and making the right decisions to go forward (would be in) the club’s best interest.”
100% Brooksy and thanks for having the courage to call it out.
Difficult to judge a coach’s performance, so I suppose you need to look at other areas relative to coach’s input? And that becomes difficult when you sift through the motivation of players.
Predominately two types of players..
1. those who are experienced and come for a lucrative contract based on previous performance.
2. Those who are looking for an opportunity to crack it for a first grade spot.
In any event though, it always comes back to the numbers.

Ironically even the little funny looking whipping boy everyone calls dumb and too quiet can work out the issue.

 

[BAGNF05]

Check out Madges recent podcast with Matty & Cooper Johns. He briefly talks about his time with WT's. He says "That club could be anything but everything's got to align from the front office down to the players."

It’s no fun hating on former incompetent goons in suits. Gotta blame the coach and halfback. They own the results 😂

* even though results don’t change one iota when we change them.

 

[BAGNF05]

No - it's an answer to his question....
A correct answer.

Dragons also a much better club this year than last.
Just because we don't move forward - We can't recognise when others do...

May premiers choked again.

 

[twentyforty]

Ironically even the little funny looking whipping boy everyone calls dumb and too quiet can work out the issue.

Yep as others have done.
Richo and Benji have a huge job trying to get the team to play for the club and each other. For now I guess it’s every man for himself.
Leadership is like the weather at Tigers, everyone talks about it but nobody does anything about it..

 

[BAGNF05]

Yep as others have done.
Richo and Benji have a huge job trying to get the team to play for the club and each other. For now I guess it’s every man for himself.
Leadership is like the weather at Tigers, everyone talks about it but nobody does anything about it..

Richo’s shot across the bow at the current and former players tells us a lot. Also his angry outburst at fringe players at spoon bowl.

This club allowed too many players to collect fat pay cheques for no return for many years and it’s time that ends. Weak leadership is over.

 

[Lestronge]

Ironically even the little funny looking whipping boy everyone calls dumb and too quiet can work out the issue.

It’s always been the blazers that were the issue . Right back to when sheenius took us over and the narrative was how he could keep them all in line .
That’s 💯 correct .
But my issue is with the way guys on here throw blame around , and it’s often to suit an agenda or not .
Madge lost the dressing room . Was it in part because of the dum dums he had to work for . I have no doubt ! Like the Nofa extension ? wtf Lee !
The appointment of the sheenius into coaching , and further to that him torpedoing the season by giving the reins to Kimmorley .
Even the sheens appointment to Benji wasn’t the worst idea ever … as long as they committed to it … didn’t even last 3 months of the season .
Should we have given Benji the reins ? No ! No I don’t think so . But we have now … and we have to get on board. Because those calling for his head , yet can come on here and spray the old exco for being short sighted , are the most obvious “hero’s of thier own story “ I can think of .
Because you are literally doing the same thing , we criticised the old board for doing ie. NOT STICKING TO A PLAN..
We have 2 more years of Benji . At the end of next year , we will know pretty conclusively where this experiment is at . Until then , who seriously knows . But why on earth would anyone death ride him , unless you’re a masochist or troll . It makes no sense to me . And NO you’re not smarter than Richo , and you’re not clever for bringing up Madge . Madge got fired because his coaching style didn’t work . All the sheenius / Benji stuff is a completely separate issue .
There is no alternate universe , including playing Robbie Farah for that last game instead of a back for 18th man to cover for the Thompson injury . That was Madge caught up in the emotion ..
His choices led him to the exit door , just as much as Lee and Justin’s choices holistically led us to where we are today . Everyone needs to be accountable for thier patch .
Including Stephanie playing like hes rather be at Oztag most of the season . It has nothing to do with coaching , exco , backs , halves whatever excuse . If you’re a middle and you don’t / can’t / won’t rip and tear , especially with his talent . Than the mirro is the only place to look .
Just like the bloke running the club , running the water , running the media page , running the team etc.
Steve in the podcast talks about continuous excellence no matter your role. That’s what this is all about !

 

[Needaname]

I can’t remember the last time we went into an offseason with a settled spine. A decent one too, Bula, Galvin, Luai, Api. And with solid depth to keep them focused, with Turuva, Staines, L Fainu, Da Silva. A 25 fourkin spoon will be unacceptable, barring injuries.

I’m not convinced. It may start that way but i expect to see Latu in the halves by the end of the season.
Both Luai and Galvin are runners and play before the line without a halve squaring up the defence we will be playing too laterally.
Only Latu plays to the line and compresses the defence.

 

[Needaname]

No - it's an answer to his question....
A correct answer.

Dragons also a much better club this year than last.
Just because we don't move forward - We can't recognise when others do...

Have you forgotten that the Dragons in 21&22 were in the top 8 by mid season and were just 2 wins out of the 8 by the end of the season.
They had a shocking year last year which usually comes with a coach being moved on. See Parramatta and Souths
This year they were in the 8 towards the end of the season and missed out by just 1 win.
Is it really THAT much of an improvement?

 

[Tucker]

That’s bullshit ! The 22 spoon is all Madge . That team was his , he admitted as much and they didn’t perform for him , so he got axed .
The 23 team played like a sheenius team , only without the skill , and if Benji came in he openly admitted he was just re-enforcing sheens strategy because it was too late to make drastic changes .
These excuses for Madge are tiresome , and recency bias because he won a couple of games with one of the best NSW teams we have ever fielded .
For a guy like you who talks about things accountability all day , you sure do like making excuses for your favourites like Madge

Madge isn't my favorite so quit putting words in my mouth. He did a poor job here.
That said, I believe season 2022 was hijacked and sabotaged and gave reasons why I think so. Only someone who is agenda driven would be so unconditional in their dismissal of events that occurred from June onwards of that season.
As for 2023, Benji was clearly running things on game day, there were numerous reports he was running training sessions, especially the attack. He had to learn on the job quickly and therefore was certainly highly involved with game plans, recruitment and squad preparation. I am not absolving Sheens in any way. The moment he sacked Madge with no replacement lined up he set off a chain reaction of events that has led to 3 spoons in a row.....Absolutely astonishing disaster.
I am also not absolving the board or administration. I was calling for their heads years before it became popular on here to do so. They are all incompetent and culpable in their own ways.
I am merely railing against the revisionist mentality that is growing on here surrounding Benji's involvement over the past 2.5 years. His style is not working.

 

[batboy]

Have you forgotten that the Dragons in 21&22 were in the top 8 by mid season and were just 2 wins out of the 8 by the end of the season.
They had a shocking year last year which usually comes with a coach being moved on. See Parramatta and Souths
This year they were in the 8 towards the end of the season and missed out by just 1 win.
Is it really THAT much of an improvement?

I guess we'll need to wait and see your real thoughts on hoe much of an improvement it is when the Tigers finish the season one win out of the 8

 

[Magpie_Magic]

I Liked Madge and am happy for his recent success.

But at the end of the day he failed to get the buy in from the squad he deserved.......especially the guys he recruited.

Where this pertains to this thread is that at least benji is getting guys to play for him......we competed in patches in nearly every game it was just a poor squad, which lacked depth to cover backline injuries including during games and poor discipline with sin bins and penalties.

For Madge to blame management with his superior squad and access to recruit guys he asked for is a bit of a cop out.

 

[Tucker]

I Liked Madge and am happy for his recent success.

But at the end of the day he failed to get the buy in from the squad he deserved.......especially the guys he recruited.

Where this pertains to this thread is that at least benji is getting guys to play for him......we competed in patches in nearly every game it was just a poor squad, which lacked depth to cover backline injuries including during games and poor discipline with sin bins and penalties.

For Madge to blame management with his superior squad and access to recruit guys he asked for is a bit of a cop out.

Madge's squad was not superior to this one.

 

[BAGNF05]

Madge's squad was not superior to this one.

Comparing different shades of shit there, brown or cocoa.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

The lighter the shit the healthier.

 

[Lestronge]

Madge isn't my favorite so quit putting words in my mouth. He did a poor job here.
That said, I believe season 2022 was hijacked and sabotaged and gave reasons why I think so. Only someone who is agenda driven would be so unconditional in their dismissal of events that occurred from June onwards of that season.
As for 2023, Benji was clearly running things on game day, there were numerous reports he was running training sessions, especially the attack. He had to learn on the job quickly and therefore was certainly highly involved with game plans, recruitment and squad preparation. I am not absolving Sheens in any way. The moment he sacked Madge with no replacement lined up he set off a chain reaction of events that has led to 3 spoons in a row.....Absolutely astonishing disaster.
I am also not absolving the board or administration. I was calling for their heads years before it became popular on here to do so. They are all incompetent and culpable in their own ways.
I am merely railing against the revisionist mentality that is growing on here surrounding Benji's involvement over the past 2.5 years. His style is not working.

I don’t think there’s revisionism going on around Benji at all .
He was the assistant coach in 23 . Yes he was running the training but the ideas around who plays , when and where and the strategies being played were ultimately Sheens . I’ve no doubt though that Benji would have had way more influence than any other assistant would have had , because ultimately he was the one who would inherit the team .
I’m not defending anything , but we’ve made a plan and we have to stick to it . What’s the point in undercutting , if not to undermine .
2022 wasn’t hijacked btw . It was fumbled by the special 2. Really Madge should have been turfed in 2021 . It was a farce . If by that you mean it was hijacked ? Then yes I agree . But I don’t think there was some Machiavellian scheme in place to oust Madge . Just a poor club run by even poorer administrators

 

[batboy]

2022 wasn’t hijacked btw . It was fumbled by the special 2. Really Madge should have been turfed in 2021 . It was a farce . If by that you mean it was hijacked ? Then yes I agree . But I don’t think there was some Machiavellian scheme in place to oust Madge . Just a poor club run by even poorer administrators

Funny you're banging on that a 'proven' coach should have been punted 2 years early
- But the bloke who no one knows if he's got a clue what he's doing should be given a couple more years to 'work it out'....
Where's the logic in that?

What's it gonna take, Galvin, Pole also leaving to be coached elsewhere
(Just like Stefano has)? 10 and 0 next year?
How many chances does the bloke get.

I remember when Naden extended in 2022, Sheens banging on about how it was Benji's decision and what Benji was gonna do with him....
(Funny he didn't mention that would be play him in the halves in Ressies)
You might not get it or want to believe it, But he's been pulling the reigns since the decision was made....
And we're not improving...
We've actually got worse - With a much better squad.

 

[Lestronge]

Funny you're banging on that a 'proven' coach should have been punted 2 years early
- But the bloke who no one knows if he's got a clue what he's doing should be given a couple more years to 'work it out'....
Where's the logic in that?

What's it gonna take, Galvin, Pole also leaving to be coached elsewhere
(Just like Stefano has)? 10 and 0 next year?
How many chances does the bloke get.

I remember when Naden extended in 2022, Sheens banging on about how it was Benji's decision and what Benji was gonna do with him....
(Funny he didn't mention that would be play him in the halves in Ressies)
You might not get it or want to believe it, But he's been pulling the reigns since the decision was made....
And we're not improving...
We've actually got worse - With a much better squad.

One thing has nothing to do with the other . They are not linked outside of where they sit on a timeline ie. one event followed the other .
Madge was fired in 2022 mid season for for poor results , and ultimately for alienating a playing group he coached .
This was evident at the end of 2021 after the farcical tiger town documentary. In fact the commentary around Madge’s sacking wasn’t that he didn’t deserve it , but rather that why didn’t they do it in the offseason what was the point .
The Benji stuff was a k we jerk reaction by fickle, incompetent management in response to losing all thier preferred candidates for the head coaching role , ciraldo being the most publicised st the time , but wolf and a few others who were considered high value also didn’t go far into negotiation .
The reason I give Benji rope is the way his job came about . He was asked would he do it , told that the necessary structures to support him would be in place , (they were and then they weren’t) , and ultimately has been set up to fail.
And he hasn’t lost the dressing room , in fact it’s pretty much the opposite . He has issues with some more intrinsic and strategic coaching techniques , of which I think Richo has identified , and as such Benji will be given an assistant with this knowledge .
They’re completely different situations , and to imply there’s been no change is just hilarious , and frankly stupid IMO. It’s emotional babble to a season where we could have gotten much more out of it .
I’m just not fickle like you .We’ve done nothing but set up Benji for failure . The whole experiment was predicated on a good foundation on which we haven’t provided . And you want to judge someone for falling over on uneven , treacherous ground to be him with ?
Please …. Next year will be the first year Benji will have the stable ground on which he should be judged as such . And if it’s anything like this year , we can’t move into the final year of his tenure . It wouldn’t be fair on him as much as the club and us as supporters .
Sack him now ? For who ? It’s just gibberish

 

[batboy]

One thing has nothing to do with the other . They are not linked outside of where they sit on a timeline ie. one event followed the other .
Madge was fired in 2022 mid season for for poor results , and ultimately for alienating a playing group he coached .
This was evident at the end of 2021 after the farcical tiger town documentary. In fact the commentary around Madge’s sacking wasn’t that he didn’t deserve it , but rather that why didn’t they do it in the offseason what was the point .
The Benji stuff was a k we jerk reaction by fickle, incompetent management in response to losing all thier preferred candidates for the head coaching role , ciraldo being the most publicised st the time , but wolf and a few others who were considered high value also didn’t go far into negotiation .
The reason I give Benji rope is the way his job came about . He was asked would he do it , told that the necessary structures to support him would be in place , (they were and then they weren’t) , and ultimately has been set up to fail.
And he hasn’t lost the dressing room , in fact it’s pretty much the opposite . He has issues with some more intrinsic and strategic coaching techniques , of which I think Richo has identified , and as such Benji will be given an assistant with this knowledge .
They’re completely different situations , and to imply there’s been no change is just hilarious , and frankly stupid IMO. It’s emotional babble to a season where we could have gotten much more out of it .
I’m just not fickle like you .We’ve done nothing but set up Benji for failure . The whole experiment was predicated on a good foundation on which we haven’t provided . And you want to judge someone for falling over on uneven , treacherous ground to be him with ?
Please …. Next year will be the first year Benji will have the stable ground on which he should be judged as such . And if it’s anything like this year , we can’t move into the final year of his tenure . It wouldn’t be fair on him as much as the club and us as supporters .
Sack him now ? For who ? It’s just gibberish

How many other of the other 16 supporter bases are referring to the implementation of their head coach as an 'experiment'?
If expecting a highly paid head coach to have actually done it before in some capacity makes me fickle, I'll happily wear it.

 

[Tucker]

I don’t think there’s revisionism going on around Benji at all .
He was the assistant coach in 23 . Yes he was running the training but the ideas around who plays , when and where and the strategies being played were ultimately Sheens . I’ve no doubt though that Benji would have had way more influence than any other assistant would have had , because ultimately he was the one who would inherit the team .
I’m not defending anything , but we’ve made a plan and we have to stick to it . What’s the point in undercutting , if not to undermine .
2022 wasn’t hijacked btw . It was fumbled by the special 2. Really Madge should have been turfed in 2021 . It was a farce . If by that you mean it was hijacked ? Then yes I agree . But I don’t think there was some Machiavellian scheme in place to oust Madge . Just a poor club run by even poorer administrators

It was. I thought Madge should have been fired immediately following round 25 of 2021 when the last placed Doggies bent us over 38 blot. The fact he survived a highly publicised hit that was set up for him and came out of that with an extension, only to be fired 3 months into the new campaign is where the sabotage of that season occured.
Im not about undercutting a plan, although I certainly think it was a dumb plan to begin with. We need to look seriously at the possibility that we are wasting these recruits. Adding Klemmer, Api, Papali'i and Bateman to your pack and a winger fresh off a premiership victory in Staines, should not result in a last place finish. Unearthing some genuine young talent, whilst adding the Fainu bros, Olam and Sezer should not equal another one.