Berlin

I do however get a good laugh out of the media hysteria and how people react/buy in to it.

The Minto Stabbing was carried out by a Terrorist, yet the Forest Hill Stabbing was carried out by a Knifeman?

Al Queda & ISIS are percieved as being responsible for the vast majority of terrorism over the past 15 years, yet we're armed, funded & trained by the US Government?

People denounce ISIS for the random killing of innocent people in France, Brussels & Germany, yet say nothing about the killing of innocent Muslims on a daily basis?

I saw one news agency last week have the hide to include our ANZAC in the propaganda they were selling… Now that really pissed me off!
 
@hammertime said:
@formerguest said:
@hammertime said:
The righteous arguement to say that we can't block a religion because of a few bad eggs is an easy one to make. It's the moral high ground, so you can't be easily shouted down. And while it doesn't effect you, you'll be fine with the policy. I would love to see if a relative of those poor souls in Berlin agree with you right now.

But really, the issue is more broad and it's around populating a country with a religion that can conflict with democracy. It's not just the actual killings, it's the segregation, amount of foiled plots, women's rights, abuses of legal authority.

Yes, again, you'll use the arguement that this can exist in various forms from person to person, but I only see one group using religion as the rationale.

Everyone knows really good people with Muslim faith. The issue is not with those solid Aussies, but we certainly should not continue import a faith that is counteractive to our culture remaining cohesive. What do we owe others? Are we putting the needs of others above the needs of our own?

Would our ancestors have immigrated Germans or Japanese during WW2? Just because you can pinpoint the war, doesn't mean it should be any different. The western world is at war with the radical Muslim one and if religion is the defining characteristic and not a countries borders, why is it such a leap to restrict on those grounds.

If we continue on this righteous path, we are kicking the can down the road for our children to deal with a continually devided and antagonised community. Since sept 11th, there has been over a decade of trying the leftist way…trying with the best of efforts.

It's not working.

I read and even take some of, even if just a little of your post on board, but less as it continues. Surely you cannot really consider the right and centre right wing governments unjustified invasion of Iraq and the resultant vacuum of and handing over of power that basically birthed the Islamic State, as leftist in any way, shape or form?

The relative few (hundreds) casualties in the west pale into insignificance compared to the death, destruction and suffering of the many, many in Iraq and it's surrounds that is still occurring on a daily basis. Neither situation is good, but some perspective is needed, particularly as the arm sales and the political positions of many of countries that are involved in such conflicts are intertwined. Sadly, war is a business and a huge money making one at that.

The narrative of fear is an agenda pushed by both sides, with each individual turned to the edge of hate for the other, being a notch on the belt of either antagonist. They do not create winners, only losers.

the defining terror attack of this all actually started before the Iraq war. So did the Bali bombings. But probably we are to blame for those too…

It actually scares me at the level of complacency by the western world. We seem to blame ourselves most of the time and have lost our hearts for our own. Our patriotism is weak. Instead we somehow think that we deserve someone to open fire in a nightclub or drive a truck through women and children.

The thing is that the western world has tried to provide the global security for the better part of half a century. Sometimes we get it wrong, but the causation is usually founded in decent intentions. We try to avoid innocents, we help rebuild, fund and work with communities.

Our own blame game when these people are killed is somewhat sickening to me. I can guarentee ISIL aren't comparatively sitting back and cursing Osama bin laden for ramming jets into the USA.

We don't have a foundation policy to kill innocents in cold blood. That's the difference to me.

We are not the blame but we are part of the problem. The terrorists are the blame for their acts. Let's have no argument about that. The actions of those vile lowies is in no way acceptable and in no way our fault.

Our meddling in the Middle East goes way back before the Iraq war a and Bali bombings. We have not tried to help the Middle East we have when it worked appeared to help the Middle East while in effect helping our selves. Yes the Red Cross and Doctors Without Borders have over the years provided help. But it was always humanitarian assistance, very little was government assistance.

You give a homeless, man in the city a gun when his hungry, he ain't going to dig a whole in the ground and plant carrots, his going to point it at a passer by and demand money or food.

We talk about respect for our way of life and culture, we send a plane loads of Turists to Bali every year, do the majority of those visiting act with respect for their way of life or culture. Our behaviour was so bad our own TV's made a show of it.

When I lived in London for 2 years I spent my time living, drinking and eating with other Aussies funny that, although I was in England the motherland a place where our culture was born out of I wanted to be with other Aussies.

We are not to blame for the Middle East but we have contributed to the problem.

I see no difference between a terrorist and a dealer selling Ice or Herron. Both destroy innocent people and their families. I'm sure only a small minority on this forum have been directly impacted by terrorism and we have an issue with Muslims. I would guess that more on this forum have been impacted by a drug related crime yet we don't see a thread about that nor do we see any hatred towards our own culture which in is also a contributor to the drug problem.

Over 3500 people died from just alchole related deaths in Australia this year, 0 according to my research died in Australia as a result of terrorism in 2016\. Do we hate Tooheys Castlemaine or Penfolds?

The religion doesn't have a foundation policy to kill innocents. Isis does.

Many have died in the name of God, and for a long long time the killing of innocents was committed by the Church, in fact the church even specifically target woman, they called them witches and burned them at the stake.
 
@Tiger Come Lately said:
@Tiger Watto said:
It is time that we begin addressing terrorism on an educated and factual level. We cannot allow the disparity in media coverage to blind us from the facts and turn us into hateful or xenophobic people.

One thing I'm certain about in all of this, its not the religion that creates terrorists, its the politics and we need to look at ways to stop the people becoming radicalised.

Are we the problem? Did we create the segregation for these radicals to give them the platform to build and create havoc?

We are probably not going to like some of the outcomes, but I'm certain we need to have the debate!

Now there is a logical argument, we have too take our blinkers off and look at the broader issue.

The west and russia played chess over the middle east for years chasing oil or whatever. We took sides, we armed those that we supported and created mayhem when it suited and when it all fell over we left the weapons there and nicked off.

With no infrastructure and government, the ordinary people were easy pray for greedy war mungers and despot leaders. When people are naive, desperate and hungry history shows they will follow an Alpha who promises them salvation, Hitler promised his people and they acted on his word. Napoleon promised his people and they acted on his word, The sultans promised their people and they acted on his word, the crusaders, the witch hunts, the romans, the greeks, the Egyptians, the, the, the, the

Look at the US today Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon promised and he got elected - I'm not saying he is a despot I'm just saying he spoke to the people and they responded.

I am not condoning the acts of these lowlifes. I am saying people pray on people and often it is those they now or are around them.

Some of our poor, isolated, neglected, desperate and naive turn to crime, they rob, they harm, deal drugs, if these guys were surrounded by other poor people with nothing to rob or steal or deal what would they do? They would do what some alpha tells them to do.

I believe that no human bought up in a loving caring family circle, in a peaceful country like ours would want to grow up to be criminal or worse a terrorist. But when left isolated or lead down the wrong path they do become such things.

Look at us, we as WT supporters are desperate for a solid season and we hammer each other with our posts, some get really peeved with each other.

Sorry ill get off my soap box, but its sad when our first reactions is fear and hatred rather than understanding and compassion (not towards terrorist - but towards innocent muslim people). I would hope that if the tables had ever turned and our great country was ever in strife that one of our neighbouring countries would open their doors and let my family in. Maybe Malaysia or Singapore or Indonesia.

I think you are being extremely Nieve. There are people from all walks of life, who steal rob ,embezzle, murder , become completely physcopathic , become serial killers,and become nutjob religious fanatics, who come from exactly the textbook families,
When are these "innocent " Muslim families going to drop the cone of silence and do more to help the police to get these radical fools identified, and thrown in gaol,
It's time that the muslin community in Australia did more towards cleaning up their own backyard.
While they deny that people around then are cleanskins, when it's obvious that they are not, they will never have the support from the wider community.
 
It's, funny that I've never seen the Muslim community get out on the street and demonstrate against their " minority nutjob radical element", yet they are out there very quickly when there is a hint of criticism of one of their self appointed leaders or their religion .

A mates son works in a police squad, whose main area is middle eastern crime.
He's said often , that their biggest problem is the complete refusal in most cases , of getting assistance from the Muslim community about getting information about possible radicals in their midst.
It would help to change people's minds about them if they were to be more proactive in publicly denouncing terrorism, and assisting the police more than is happening now.
They want it both ways. A safe and peaceful country to live in.
But they don't want to take part in helping to clean up their own
Lunatic fringe, and actively help to keep their new country peaceful and safe from their own religious fanatics
 
@goldcoast tiger said:
It's, funny that I've never seen the Muslim community get out on the street and demonstrate against their " minority nutjob radical element", yet they are out there very quickly when there is a hint of criticism of one of their self appointed leaders or their religion .

A mates son works in a police squad, whose main area is middle eastern crime.
He's said often , that their biggest problem is the complete refusal in most cases , of getting assistance from the Muslim community about getting information about possible radicals in their midst.
It would help to change people's minds about them if they were to be more proactive in publicly denouncing terrorism, and assisting the police more than is happening now.
They want it both ways. A safe and peaceful country to live in.
But they don't want to take part in helping to clean up their own
Lunatic fringe, and actively help to keep their new country peaceful and safe from their own religious fanatics

Well GCT,a wise man I once worked for many years ago said to me when he gave a person a job and that person didn't perform his duties and constantly turned up late and got sacked,he said " I refuse to help anybody that doesn't want to help themselves"….

To me those words suit the Muslim community here in our great country..
 
@magpiecol said:
@ALX22 said:
Pretty simple, stop going to war in the Middle East.

For those radicals of all faiths, life in jail and/or the death penalty shall be suffice.

Yes, all those Mormon, Catholic, C of E, Uniting etc radicals had better watch out. And oh yes, those poor misunderstood radical islamists as well.

What religion were those who partook in the civil warfare & terrorism during the Troubles, Col?

Free hint: They weren't Islamic.
 
@hammertime said:
@formerguest said:
@hammertime said:
The righteous arguement to say that we can't block a religion because of a few bad eggs is an easy one to make. It's the moral high ground, so you can't be easily shouted down. And while it doesn't effect you, you'll be fine with the policy. I would love to see if a relative of those poor souls in Berlin agree with you right now.

But really, the issue is more broad and it's around populating a country with a religion that can conflict with democracy. It's not just the actual killings, it's the segregation, amount of foiled plots, women's rights, abuses of legal authority.

Yes, again, you'll use the arguement that this can exist in various forms from person to person, but I only see one group using religion as the rationale.

Everyone knows really good people with Muslim faith. The issue is not with those solid Aussies, but we certainly should not continue import a faith that is counteractive to our culture remaining cohesive. What do we owe others? Are we putting the needs of others above the needs of our own?

Would our ancestors have immigrated Germans or Japanese during WW2? Just because you can pinpoint the war, doesn't mean it should be any different. The western world is at war with the radical Muslim one and if religion is the defining characteristic and not a countries borders, why is it such a leap to restrict on those grounds.

If we continue on this righteous path, we are kicking the can down the road for our children to deal with a continually devided and antagonised community. Since sept 11th, there has been over a decade of trying the leftist way…trying with the best of efforts.

It's not working.

I read and even take some of, even if just a little of your post on board, but less as it continues. Surely you cannot really consider the right and centre right wing governments unjustified invasion of Iraq and the resultant vacuum of and handing over of power that basically birthed the Islamic State, as leftist in any way, shape or form?

The relative few (hundreds) casualties in the west pale into insignificance compared to the death, destruction and suffering of the many, many in Iraq and it's surrounds that is still occurring on a daily basis. Neither situation is good, but some perspective is needed, particularly as the arm sales and the political positions of many of countries that are involved in such conflicts are intertwined. Sadly, war is a business and a huge money making one at that.

The narrative of fear is an agenda pushed by both sides, with each individual turned to the edge of hate for the other, being a notch on the belt of either antagonist. They do not create winners, only losers.

the defining terror attack of this all actually started before the Iraq war. So did the Bali bombings. But probably we are to blame for those too…

It actually scares me at the level of complacency by the western world. We seem to blame ourselves most of the time and have lost our hearts for our own. Our patriotism is weak. Instead we somehow think that we deserve someone to open fire in a nightclub or drive a truck through women and children.

The thing is that the western world has tried to provide the global security for the better part of half a century. Sometimes we get it wrong, but the causation is usually founded in decent intentions. We try to avoid innocents, we help rebuild, fund and work with communities.

Our own blame game when these people are killed is somewhat sickening to me. I can guarentee ISIL aren't comparatively sitting back and cursing Osama bin laden for ramming jets into the USA.

We don't have a foundation policy to kill innocents in cold blood. That's the difference to me.

You realise the West was embedded in the Middle East decades before 9/11? It didn't happen overnight.
 
@goldcoast tiger said:
@Tiger Come Lately said:
@Tiger Watto said:
It is time that we begin addressing terrorism on an educated and factual level. We cannot allow the disparity in media coverage to blind us from the facts and turn us into hateful or xenophobic people.

One thing I'm certain about in all of this, its not the religion that creates terrorists, its the politics and we need to look at ways to stop the people becoming radicalised.

Are we the problem? Did we create the segregation for these radicals to give them the platform to build and create havoc?

We are probably not going to like some of the outcomes, but I'm certain we need to have the debate!

Now there is a logical argument, we have too take our blinkers off and look at the broader issue.

The west and russia played chess over the middle east for years chasing oil or whatever. We took sides, we armed those that we supported and created mayhem when it suited and when it all fell over we left the weapons there and nicked off.

With no infrastructure and government, the ordinary people were easy pray for greedy war mungers and despot leaders. When people are naive, desperate and hungry history shows they will follow an Alpha who promises them salvation, Hitler promised his people and they acted on his word. Napoleon promised his people and they acted on his word, The sultans promised their people and they acted on his word, the crusaders, the witch hunts, the romans, the greeks, the Egyptians, the, the, the, the

Look at the US today Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon promised and he got elected - I'm not saying he is a despot I'm just saying he spoke to the people and they responded.

I am not condoning the acts of these lowlifes. I am saying people pray on people and often it is those they now or are around them.

Some of our poor, isolated, neglected, desperate and naive turn to crime, they rob, they harm, deal drugs, if these guys were surrounded by other poor people with nothing to rob or steal or deal what would they do? They would do what some alpha tells them to do.

I believe that no human bought up in a loving caring family circle, in a peaceful country like ours would want to grow up to be criminal or worse a terrorist. But when left isolated or lead down the wrong path they do become such things.

Look at us, we as WT supporters are desperate for a solid season and we hammer each other with our posts, some get really peeved with each other.

Sorry ill get off my soap box, but its sad when our first reactions is fear and hatred rather than understanding and compassion (not towards terrorist - but towards innocent muslim people). I would hope that if the tables had ever turned and our great country was ever in strife that one of our neighbouring countries would open their doors and let my family in. Maybe Malaysia or Singapore or Indonesia.

I think you are being extremely Nieve. There are people from all walks of life, who steal rob ,embezzle, murder , become completely physcopathic , become serial killers,and become nutjob religious fanatics, who come from exactly the textbook families,
When are these "innocent " Muslim families going to drop the cone of silence and do more to help the police to get these radical fools identified, and thrown in gaol,
It's time that the muslin community in Australia did more towards cleaning up their own backyard.
While they deny that people around then are cleanskins, when it's obvious that they are not, they will never have the support from the wider community.

They are not sitting idle, nor protecting individuals. May I suggest that you contact their associations to find out just how much work the community is doing to combat their own devils, even in the shadow of threats from those we all abhor. Individual families almost always at least partially protect their own, just as in all communities.

There is a problem and I don't think anybody argues that, but perception is or lack thereof is at least it's equal.
 
@goldcoast tiger said:
@Tiger Come Lately said:
@Tiger Watto said:
It is time that we begin addressing terrorism on an educated and factual level. We cannot allow the disparity in media coverage to blind us from the facts and turn us into hateful or xenophobic people.

One thing I'm certain about in all of this, its not the religion that creates terrorists, its the politics and we need to look at ways to stop the people becoming radicalised.

Are we the problem? Did we create the segregation for these radicals to give them the platform to build and create havoc?

We are probably not going to like some of the outcomes, but I'm certain we need to have the debate!

Now there is a logical argument, we have too take our blinkers off and look at the broader issue.

The west and russia played chess over the middle east for years chasing oil or whatever. We took sides, we armed those that we supported and created mayhem when it suited and when it all fell over we left the weapons there and nicked off.

With no infrastructure and government, the ordinary people were easy pray for greedy war mungers and despot leaders. When people are naive, desperate and hungry history shows they will follow an Alpha who promises them salvation, Hitler promised his people and they acted on his word. Napoleon promised his people and they acted on his word, The sultans promised their people and they acted on his word, the crusaders, the witch hunts, the romans, the greeks, the Egyptians, the, the, the, the

Look at the US today Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon promised and he got elected - I'm not saying he is a despot I'm just saying he spoke to the people and they responded.

I am not condoning the acts of these lowlifes. I am saying people pray on people and often it is those they now or are around them.

Some of our poor, isolated, neglected, desperate and naive turn to crime, they rob, they harm, deal drugs, if these guys were surrounded by other poor people with nothing to rob or steal or deal what would they do? They would do what some alpha tells them to do.

I believe that no human bought up in a loving caring family circle, in a peaceful country like ours would want to grow up to be criminal or worse a terrorist. But when left isolated or lead down the wrong path they do become such things.

Look at us, we as WT supporters are desperate for a solid season and we hammer each other with our posts, some get really peeved with each other.

Sorry ill get off my soap box, but its sad when our first reactions is fear and hatred rather than understanding and compassion (not towards terrorist - but towards innocent muslim people). I would hope that if the tables had ever turned and our great country was ever in strife that one of our neighbouring countries would open their doors and let my family in. Maybe Malaysia or Singapore or Indonesia.

I think you are being extremely Nieve. There are people from all walks of life, who steal rob ,embezzle, murder , become completely physcopathic , become serial killers,and become nutjob religious fanatics, who come from exactly the textbook families,
When are these "innocent " Muslim families going to drop the cone of silence and do more to help the police to get these radical fools identified, and thrown in gaol,
It's time that the muslin community in Australia did more towards cleaning up their own backyard.
While they deny that people around then are cleanskins, when it's obvious that they are not, they will never have the support from the wider community.

I have been called many things, but this is the first time in a long long time I've been called naive?

Also I'm pleased that we agree, those traits that you listed are not just for muslims and that people from all walks of life can commit all sorts of hyaenas crimes for a myriad of reasons.

Also please read my post carefully i didn't say people from caring families don't commit the crimes i said they dont grow up wanting to be criminals however, they can be lead astray or suffer mental health issues that may lead them to do horrible things.

How do you know that the muslim community are not helping? How do you know that when terrorists are arrested that its not on the back of lead or a tip off from the muslim community? Also do you think terrorist were a t-shirt to their mosque printed "I'm a terrorist" or they openly talk about terrorist activities with other muslims.

I dont recall the priest at my old church tell us he was a pedophile or preaching to us about his vile acts on, but he was taken away for being one.

In their own countries they are fighting against the groups that harbour and bread terrorist and have been for years.

Let me ask you this, if the local organised crime gang or bikie gang was committing a crime in your area are you going to go to the police and be a witness for the police prosecution against the local gang with no fear of retribution to your family? If everyone in Australia did this then we wouldn't have any organised crime in Australia.
 
@ALX22 said:
@magpiecol said:
@ALX22 said:
Pretty simple, stop going to war in the Middle East.

For those radicals of all faiths, life in jail and/or the death penalty shall be suffice.

Yes, all those Mormon, Catholic, C of E, Uniting etc radicals had better watch out. And oh yes, those poor misunderstood radical islamists as well.

You do realise that there are bad eggs in all faiths right???

You are correct AL22 There are bad eggs in every religion, but when was the last time you heard the Pope or the Queen call for a "Fatwa".
Go and kill someone because he said something that we don't like, that is the problem with Islam.
Stone someone to death because she had an affair or was raped by a man!!! get real AL
 
@bathursttiger said:
@ALX22 said:
@magpiecol said:
@ALX22 said:
Pretty simple, stop going to war in the Middle East.

For those radicals of all faiths, life in jail and/or the death penalty shall be suffice.

Yes, all those Mormon, Catholic, C of E, Uniting etc radicals had better watch out. And oh yes, those poor misunderstood radical islamists as well.

You do realise that there are bad eggs in all faiths right???

You are correct AL22 There are bad eggs in every religion, but when was the last time you heard the Pope or the Queen call for a "Fatwa".
Go and kill someone because he said something that we don't like, that is the problem with Islam.
Stone someone to death because she had an affair or was raped by a man!!! get real AL

The Queen probably called a fatwa on Princess Di.
 
@Cultured Bogan said:
@bathursttiger said:
@ALX22 said:
@magpiecol said:
Yes, all those Mormon, Catholic, C of E, Uniting etc radicals had better watch out. And oh yes, those poor misunderstood radical islamists as well.

You do realise that there are bad eggs in all faiths right???

You are correct AL22 There are bad eggs in every religion, but when was the last time you heard the Pope or the Queen call for a "Fatwa".
Go and kill someone because he said something that we don't like, that is the problem with Islam.
Stone someone to death because she had an affair or was raped by a man!!! get real AL

The Queen probably called a fatwa on Princess Di.

If the queen issued a Fatwa every time a cartoonist or comedian said something about Charlie, there wouldn't be a single cartoonist or comedian left in the world.
Have you forgot about "Charlie Hebdo" massacred because a a cartoon, or Salman Rushdie a death threat just because he said something about Ala.
There is major problem with Islamic religion, these and other acts of terrorism should be denounced by the Imams, but all you heard is silence.
Deafening silence!!!
 
@bathursttiger said:
There is major problem with Islamic religion, these and other acts of terrorism should be denounced by the Imams, but all you heard is silence.
Deafening silence!!!

http://www.smh.com.au/national/muslim-leaders-including-the-grand-mufti-of-australia-back-fatwa-against-isis-20160101-glxtbp.html

From what I've seen, the vast majority of Muslims condemn violence. Doesn't get much media coverage though.
 
@bathursttiger said:
@Cultured Bogan said:
@bathursttiger said:
@ALX22 said:
You do realise that there are bad eggs in all faiths right???

You are correct AL22 There are bad eggs in every religion, but when was the last time you heard the Pope or the Queen call for a "Fatwa".
Go and kill someone because he said something that we don't like, that is the problem with Islam.
Stone someone to death because she had an affair or was raped by a man!!! get real AL

The Queen probably called a fatwa on Princess Di.

If the queen issued a Fatwa every time a cartoonist or comedian said something about Charlie, there wouldn't be a single cartoonist or comedian left in the world.
Have you forgot about "Charlie Hebdo" massacred because a a cartoon, or Salman Rushdie a death threat just because he said something about Ala.
There is major problem with Islamic religion, these and other acts of terrorism should be denounced by the Imams, but all you heard is silence.
Deafening silence!!!

The Queen represents all Commonwealth Countries, are you saying the leaders of terrorist organisations are on a level with the Queen and represent all muslims?

Have you forgotten the uproar from the Church and catholics when Dan Brown released the Da Vinci Code? He received death threats, people were marching in the streets. And that was a fictional novel, not even an intentional swipe taking the proverbial out of a religions leader.

How can anyone say there is a major problem with Islam or any religion unless you have studied or lived it, does anyone here have a degree in Theology?

Oh and below is an article on 70,000 muslim clerics condemning terrorism. Not so silent.
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/70000-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-condemning-terrorism/

If all your news comes from the same biased sources then how are you going to make informed decisions.

And by the way i have provided the meaning of the Fatwa for you: _a ruling on a point of Islamic law given by a recognized authority._ its not a kill order.
 
@bathursttiger said:
You are correct AL22 There are bad eggs in every religion, but when was the last time you heard the Pope or the Queen call for a "Fatwa".
Go and kill someone because he said something that we don't like, that is the problem with Islam.
Stone someone to death because she had an affair or was raped by a man!!! get real AL

People are killed all the time for saying something someone doesnt like, regardless of race or religion. Go down to your local MC and call some of them nasty names and see which gutter your family finds you face down in.
 
@formerguest said:
@goldcoast tiger said:
@Tiger Come Lately said:
@Tiger Watto said:
It is time that we begin addressing terrorism on an educated and factual level. We cannot allow the disparity in media coverage to blind us from the facts and turn us into hateful or xenophobic people.

One thing I'm certain about in all of this, its not the religion that creates terrorists, its the politics and we need to look at ways to stop the people becoming radicalised.

Are we the problem? Did we create the segregation for these radicals to give them the platform to build and create havoc?

We are probably not going to like some of the outcomes, but I'm certain we need to have the debate!

Now there is a logical argument, we have too take our blinkers off and look at the broader issue.

The west and russia played chess over the middle east for years chasing oil or whatever. We took sides, we armed those that we supported and created mayhem when it suited and when it all fell over we left the weapons there and nicked off.

With no infrastructure and government, the ordinary people were easy pray for greedy war mungers and despot leaders. When people are naive, desperate and hungry history shows they will follow an Alpha who promises them salvation, Hitler promised his people and they acted on his word. Napoleon promised his people and they acted on his word, The sultans promised their people and they acted on his word, the crusaders, the witch hunts, the romans, the greeks, the Egyptians, the, the, the, the

Look at the US today Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon promised and he got elected - I'm not saying he is a despot I'm just saying he spoke to the people and they responded.

I am not condoning the acts of these lowlifes. I am saying people pray on people and often it is those they now or are around them.

Some of our poor, isolated, neglected, desperate and naive turn to crime, they rob, they harm, deal drugs, if these guys were surrounded by other poor people with nothing to rob or steal or deal what would they do? They would do what some alpha tells them to do.

I believe that no human bought up in a loving caring family circle, in a peaceful country like ours would want to grow up to be criminal or worse a terrorist. But when left isolated or lead down the wrong path they do become such things.

Look at us, we as WT supporters are desperate for a solid season and we hammer each other with our posts, some get really peeved with each other.

Sorry ill get off my soap box, but its sad when our first reactions is fear and hatred rather than understanding and compassion (not towards terrorist - but towards innocent muslim people). I would hope that if the tables had ever turned and our great country was ever in strife that one of our neighbouring countries would open their doors and let my family in. Maybe Malaysia or Singapore or Indonesia.

I think you are being extremely Nieve. There are people from all walks of life, who steal rob ,embezzle, murder , become completely physcopathic , become serial killers,and become nutjob religious fanatics, who come from exactly the textbook families,
When are these "innocent " Muslim families going to drop the cone of silence and do more to help the police to get these radical fools identified, and thrown in gaol,
It's time that the muslin community in Australia did more towards cleaning up their own backyard.
While they deny that people around then are cleanskins, when it's obvious that they are not, they will never have the support from the wider community.

They are not sitting idle, nor protecting individuals. May I suggest that you contact their associations to find out just how much work the community is doing to combat their own devils, even in the shadow of threats from those we all abhor. Individual families almost always at least partially protect their own, just as in all communities.

There is a problem and I don't think anybody argues that, but perception is or lack thereof is at least it's equal.

My information comes from someone who is almost constantly at the coalface and has to face some of these people daily , and take the insults , spitting and the general lack of any willto help solve these problems for them selves.
I don't care what their associations want to say . Il take the word of someone who is there amongst them trying to help both them , and the wider community . All the feel good statements from their associations won't make thejob of people who have to take the brunt of the lack of assistance, (and out and out hatred that they have to put up with,) any easier.
In answer to your comment…. A lot of The Muslim community ARE doing exactly what you deny, They are sitting idle and protecting individuals.
I have no doubt that some are not, but the majority of them will not assist the Police.
I'm damn sure that I would not like the job that the Police have to do every day, when they have to enter some of these homes, and being spat on regularly is possibly the least of the garbage that they are subjected to, by people who could help, but firmly refuse to do so.
Strangely though , it seems that these people that want to cover up for people are often the same people who scream for the police when they are in any trouble.
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Odd isn't it
 
Looks like no one got wind of the Fatwa down Lakemba way…
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/hizb-uttahrir-radical-group-calls-for-global-islamic-rule-during-sydney-protest-about-syria/news-story/cc91df71ccd3ad269ee3b1ccdb9868ea
 
That's the way it works, and why a lot of people have had enough.
A fruitcake terrorist, holy warrior, peace loving extremist what ever you want to call the fool, kills innocent people in Europe by driving a truck into them, probably some were Muslims as well,and a Muslim rally Denounces the US in western Sydney.
And calls for world Islamic rule
When will we wake up
 
Heres a way out solution to the problem of these morons who want to kill and mane kids and the rest of us. once the police identify the person, every member of his family is arrest and jailed for life, and means every one women kids the lot. then lets see how willing they are to kill us knowing that there entire family will pay for there sins. and before the bleeding hearts start crying, u come up with a better solution. and by the way we are only targeting the terror killers and there family, and please none of but they might not know, that is a load of crap.
 
If the DT writes an article about the tigers its just DT crap. when they write an article about a Radical group of muslims we take notice? :roll
 
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