breathe

[Russell]

Are we again we again waiting for players to be released.
Areas we are doing well in with our rebuild, is we are signing up good young players with potential, hopefully they pay off. The culture is slowly starting to improve, we do seem to be tougher mentally but then we still drop that in games where we are expected to win. Lastly some of our players are showing improvement in their games under Madge, mainly forwards, our skill players have regressed in my opinion.

Based on recent information from the POM, we just got one of three players that they we were targeting to get released, so that seems the case in regards to your first sentence.

I also share your concerns relating to the curtailing of skill, believing that a better balance would assist us. It is fine to talk about defensive attitude and completing sets, which are of course at the core of the game, though I am concerned that there is not much flexibility nor change of tactics being implemented when those basic principles on their own are not working.

Basically, completions are nice, but not everything and I don't think we threw enough variety at the warriors, particularly around the middle, allowing them plenty of energy to come at us with the ball and maintain ascendancy.

Maybe that is why he went off at half time.

 

[Wests_Tony]

Spot on. Great post.

 

[Tiger_Steve]

Yep , it’s highly plausible that the broncos and warriors could beat Souths and Manly next week , and if we win we are back in 8th.
And then it means after we hopefully beat the dogs that we have to put on our big boy pants and run the table , or as close as possible .
Sure it’s going to be tough , but I honestly reckon they can do it. This is the most talented team we have had in years . And sneakily the youngest .

There is optimism and then there is insanity, I admire your insanity :grinning:

I’ve been lurking for the last 2 weeks , and geez there’s been some wrist cutting going on . I honestly think we are better than the knights , Tohs and eagles . I also think we can compete with the roosters and storm as we always match up well with them . The 2 games I think we are gonna struggle are the riff and Parra . I’d rather be optimistic than throwing the toys out of the cot like a lot on here. Packer and Joey , are going to add a lot . Also eisenhuth . That’s dynamism , aggression and consistency. All missing from Friday . Also the new boy should have a run as well.

Why is being disappointed in an insipid effort throwing the toys out of the cot?

 

[Russell]

I see everyone saying its been a ten year rebuild etc. And it will continue to be a rebuild unless we stick with a coach and a plan. We are in this situation because of constant change and lack of direction. Now we have direction and purpose. Truthfully the rebuild starts now

Starts now? Madge has been here for almost 2 years and we are starting the rebuild now, so how long do we have to wait, another 2, 3, 5 years?

I know it's frustrating mate and I'm sick of waiting too. The issue effecting Madges rebuild is these big contracts still on the books which are just killing us and no one wants to take them off our hands. Madge is battling with this roster and waiting for some serious funds to play with. All he can do is persist with a change in attitude in the meantime which isn't really getting through to some atm.

Yeah, was more reacting to the rebuild starts now line, there is more to a rebuild then simply getting rid of those big contracts and signing new players. That sort of rebuild won't work, and its not what madge is doing anyway. He started the rebuild the day he walked into the club.

I do have a few problems with how our rebuild is going but you can't say it hasn't started yet. I think people saying that are trying to buy Maguire more time, and no I'm not calling for him to be sacked.

I think so far we have been too reactive and not proactive enough in the player market. We have been mostly signing players who are getting released from other clubs, which to me shows a lack of planning. Where are the signings for next year, we have quite a bit of money for next season and the market has been open since November and nothing as really eventuated yet. Are we again we again waiting for players to be released.

Areas we are doing well in with our rebuild, is we are signing up good young players with potential, hopefully they pay off. The culture is slowly starting to improve, we do seem to be tougher mentally but then we still drop that in games where we are expected to win. Lastly some of our players are showing improvement in their games under Madge, mainly forwards, our skill players have regressed in my opinion.

All I was saying is our rebuild doesn't start now but started 2 years ago as seen by my post.

This is your detailed post?

*I think so far we have been too reactive and not proactive enough in the player market*
With what money? who was available that we had a chance at? Were you in the board room? Are we talking about madge who had a crakc at mitchell and instead got lucy, Bj, douhei etc. Are they improvements on what we had? Yes they have been all let go by other teams but who hasnt. For example lets take para they picked up, sivo, rcg, matterson, moses, brown, takarangai, jennings all from teams that had "let them go"

*Where are the signings for next year, we have quite a bit of money for next season and the market has been open since November and nothing as really eventuated yet.*
Who has been available that would have fixed our issues who would You have picked? Nearly every player resigned with their club outside of fafita who was never an option for us. How do you know we didn't talk to 30 people and just didn't pan out.

Then you contradict your above statement by saying we have signed well with young players. Maybe our focus is to get young players because the older ones are unattainable at a price we can or are willing to afford.

*Lastly some of our players are showing improvement in their games under Madge, mainly forwards, our skill players have regressed in my opinion*

Ok so the area we have whinged about being weak in for years the forwards have improved. Awesome

Which skilled players have regressed i would struggle to name one.

This isn't detailed mate its as general as general gets.

Would take to long tonight to go into a detailed analysis of my opinion so ill do a general one.

The club has had some horrible experiences over the last 10 years.
We signed potter which was a risky move and it turned out bad.
Signing Taylor literally lost us our 4 best players at the time. This was our youth, our juniors, and our hope for the future.
It also cost us a tonne of bad publicity and negative raps from the league due to our handling of Robbie whether you are a fan or not.
Added to this during this time we have the disaster that was the west tiger's board with the Balmain saga and the consistent internal fighting.
Massive set backs both on and off the field leading to an average roster.
Out of all this, we find some stability with Pascoe and Go. They give us a huge leg up financially and set huge goals which they achieve e.g coe, solid sponsorship and board stability.
We boot taylor, Finally have minimal bad contracts club, fans and players buy into our new coach's ideas and philosophy. Due to his conversations on loyalty and buying in he is allowed to sign 4 dudes to massive lengthy contracts as they fit his philosophy. Surely its time a good coach with players HE wants in a system he has total control over.

You know the story so now we are back at the start
Half a salary cap, No juniors coming through, injured players on massive contracts. No coach a bog average roster, a ceo who was punished and cost us even more of what little salary cap we have.

In walk s coach Madge.
Hires super strong support staff.
Starts changing a culture that has had a soft underbelly for 10 years.
Does his best to sign a high profile player in Latrell
signs 10 amazingly talented young juniors from other clubs.
Has a plan from juniors through to first grade.
Has set a focus on producing local juniors.
Holds players accountable.
Shows emotion.
ISnt happy with the status quo and shows it.
Has signed decent players on decent contracts.

So am i optimistic? yeah, I am because after all those years we were a basket cases we have a chance to finally come out the other end. We have clear goals, we have a developing identity, we have a future in player development, we have a solid coaching recruitment staff.

So while not super detailed that is were my optimism comes from. Jumping up and down about where we were in the past has zero benefit.

Its the same reason we study history in schools, it so we dont make the same mistakes again.

Absolutely spot on. Hear, Hear

Finally someone who talks sense. Bravo Hodgo.

 

[Russell]

My argument was that you can only have one star player on overs without needing a lot of lower level players to balance the salary cap.
$1.2M a year for Keary sounds good to me, over 4 years he would be getting over $1M more with us. If only there was a draft to stop the top teams staying on top.

Jimmy Maloney...that guy eats premierships for breakfast

Too old and has knocked us back before.

Said he would never play for us.

 

[tiger_one]

My argument was that you can only have one star player on overs without needing a lot of lower level players to balance the salary cap.
$1.2M a year for Keary sounds good to me, over 4 years he would be getting over $1M more with us. If only there was a draft to stop the top teams staying on top.

Jimmy Maloney...that guy eats premierships for breakfast

Too old and has knocked us back before.

Said he would never play for us.

No used BBQs please.

 

[cochise]

I see everyone saying its been a ten year rebuild etc. And it will continue to be a rebuild unless we stick with a coach and a plan. We are in this situation because of constant change and lack of direction. Now we have direction and purpose. Truthfully the rebuild starts now

Starts now? Madge has been here for almost 2 years and we are starting the rebuild now, so how long do we have to wait, another 2, 3, 5 years?

Come on Cochise, you are just stirring people here with those comments. As you like to do.

Would like to think at least that you don't believe what you wrote. You are not a silly man.

I do at times like to wind people up a bit and create a bit of discussion, but that is not always the case. All the talk of everyone on here eventually got to me last week and I started to believe that maybe we had turned the corner, I had refused to believe that all week, as too many times I have believed it to only be let down again.

I'm not really interested in subtle improvements anymore, or a playing well one week only to lose to a crap side the next, I'm sick of excuses and we are starting a rebuild is another excuse.

 

[avocadoontoast]

I see everyone saying its been a ten year rebuild etc. And it will continue to be a rebuild unless we stick with a coach and a plan. We are in this situation because of constant change and lack of direction. Now we have direction and purpose. Truthfully the rebuild starts now

Starts now? Madge has been here for almost 2 years and we are starting the rebuild now, so how long do we have to wait, another 2, 3, 5 years?

Come on Cochise, you are just stirring people here with those comments. As you like to do.

Would like to think at least that you don't believe what you wrote. You are not a silly man.

I do at times like to wind people up a bit and create a bit of discussion, but that is not always the case. All the talk of everyone on here eventually got to me last week and I started to believe that maybe we had turned the corner, I had refused to believe that all week, as too many times I have believed it to only be let down again.

I'm not really interested in subtle improvements anymore, or a playing well one week only to lose to a crap side the next, I'm sick of excuses and we are starting a rebuild is another excuse.

100%. It's a merry go round of excuses. We've been rebuilding for 8 years with little progress. It's also disheartening when we are looking towards next year and there is slim pickings of quality players coming off contract. Seems like the only players we're targeting are youngsters most of us have to google to see who they are. Not denying they'll end up being good signings, but hard to see them being the difference makers in the short term.

 

[Sart0ri]

To all the people that are sick of excuses and reality: the only realistic option to change things next year is to cheat the salary cap and I would rather lose than cheat.

You can whine all you like but it takes time, risk and effort to get to the top.

 

[cochise]

To all the people that are sick of excuses and reality: the only realistic option to change things next year is to cheat the salary cap and I would rather lose than cheat.

You can whine all you like but it takes time, risk and effort to get to the top.

We cheated the cap and that didn't work either, only the we could cheat the cap while getting someone to leave.

I get that it takes time, but you can't blame people for wanting to see improvement of the club going in the right direction. We are a big chance of finishing lower down the table than we did last year.

 

[Sart0ri]

We cheated the cap and that didn’t work either, only the we could cheat the cap while getting someone to leave.
I get that it takes time, but you can’t blame people for wanting to see improvement of the club going in the right direction. We are a big chance of finishing lower down the table than we did last year.

I think I can blame people when we are suffering from years or knee jerk changes, (mainly of coaches) and they just want more changes and an instant fix. Some of us think that the team is going in the right direction and we need stability to get there. A major change of direction now will still take years but we will lose the last 2 years of work and have 4 years instead of 2 years to see the results.

It is very possible to improve as a team and end up lower on the ladder if others improve more or you get a bad draw.

 

[cochise]

We cheated the cap and that didn’t work either, only the we could cheat the cap while getting someone to leave.
I get that it takes time, but you can’t blame people for wanting to see improvement of the club going in the right direction. We are a big chance of finishing lower down the table than we did last year.

I think I can blame people when we are suffering from years or knee j**k changes, (mainly of coaches) and they just want more changes and an instant fix. Some of us think that the team is going in the right direction and we need stability to get there. A major change of direction now will still take years but we will lose the last 2 years of work and have 4 years instead of 2 years to see the results.

It is very possible to improve as a team and end up lower on the ladder if others improve more or you get a bad draw.

Where have I asked for a major change? I'm just saying that we are making the same mistakes we always seem to make, and we have proved absolutely nothing yet.

 

[Sart0ri]

knee j**k changes

Kneejerk (sorry to any young eyes I may have offended or traumatised with the incorrect spelling)

 

[cochise]

knee j**k changes

Kneejerk (sorry to any young eyes I may have offended or traumatised with the incorrect spelling)

Hey I'm a jerk, does that really trip the auto filter?

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Yep , it’s highly plausible that the broncos and warriors could beat Souths and Manly next week , and if we win we are back in 8th.
And then it means after we hopefully beat the dogs that we have to put on our big boy pants and run the table , or as close as possible .
Sure it’s going to be tough , but I honestly reckon they can do it. This is the most talented team we have had in years . And sneakily the youngest .

There is optimism and then there is insanity, I admire your insanity :grinning:

I’ve been lurking for the last 2 weeks , and geez there’s been some wrist cutting going on . I honestly think we are better than the knights , Tohs and eagles . I also think we can compete with the roosters and storm as we always match up well with them . The 2 games I think we are gonna struggle are the riff and Parra . I’d rather be optimistic than throwing the toys out of the cot like a lot on here. Packer and Joey , are going to add a lot . Also eisenhuth . That’s dynamism , aggression and consistency. All missing from Friday . Also the new boy should have a run as well.

Why is being disappointed in an insipid effort throwing the toys out of the cot?

See that’s the thing . You have confused optimism with acceptance . If I was coach , I would be ropable with Clark , Twal, walters Lawrence and Garner . And all the benji lovers on here , will bite my head off , but that defence was rubbish. There was no sense of urgency. From the middle out . It improved immensely when Blore and McIntyre came on , which saw a slight improve into half time . But the dudes 19 and Macca is 21. Mika clocks off at times as well .
I honestly reckon if Joey or even someone like Jennings was playing we win that game .
And if anyone thinks Walters is better than brooks you’re dreaming . He has a great running game , but he takes forever to release his pass .
People will blame brooks but the game was lost before he came on . Was I furious ... of course , but it’s a real loser mentality to dwell on the past and not focus on now living up to a challenge .
It’s a tough mountain that we have to grit our teeth , and head on up . No use moaning about it . Just put one foot in front of the other .

 

[cochise]

Yep , it’s highly plausible that the broncos and warriors could beat Souths and Manly next week , and if we win we are back in 8th.
And then it means after we hopefully beat the dogs that we have to put on our big boy pants and run the table , or as close as possible .
Sure it’s going to be tough , but I honestly reckon they can do it. This is the most talented team we have had in years . And sneakily the youngest .

There is optimism and then there is insanity, I admire your insanity :grinning:

I’ve been lurking for the last 2 weeks , and geez there’s been some wrist cutting going on . I honestly think we are better than the knights , Tohs and eagles . I also think we can compete with the roosters and storm as we always match up well with them . The 2 games I think we are gonna struggle are the riff and Parra . I’d rather be optimistic than throwing the toys out of the cot like a lot on here. Packer and Joey , are going to add a lot . Also eisenhuth . That’s dynamism , aggression and consistency. All missing from Friday . Also the new boy should have a run as well.

Why is being disappointed in an insipid effort throwing the toys out of the cot?

Because apparently we are improving mate.

 

[cochise]

Yep , it’s highly plausible that the broncos and warriors could beat Souths and Manly next week , and if we win we are back in 8th.
And then it means after we hopefully beat the dogs that we have to put on our big boy pants and run the table , or as close as possible .
Sure it’s going to be tough , but I honestly reckon they can do it. This is the most talented team we have had in years . And sneakily the youngest .

There is optimism and then there is insanity, I admire your insanity :grinning:

I’ve been lurking for the last 2 weeks , and geez there’s been some wrist cutting going on . I honestly think we are better than the knights , Tohs and eagles . I also think we can compete with the roosters and storm as we always match up well with them . The 2 games I think we are gonna struggle are the riff and Parra . I’d rather be optimistic than throwing the toys out of the cot like a lot on here. Packer and Joey , are going to add a lot . Also eisenhuth . That’s dynamism , aggression and consistency. All missing from Friday . Also the new boy should have a run as well.

Why is being disappointed in an insipid effort throwing the toys out of the cot?

See that’s the thing . You have confused optimism with acceptance . If I was coach , I would be ropable with Clark , Twal, walters Lawrence and Garner . And all the benji lovers on here , will bite my head off , but that defence was rubbish. There was no sense of urgency. From the middle out . It improved immensely when Blore and McIntyre came on , which saw a slight improve into half time . But the dudes 19 and Macca is 21. Mika clocks off at times as well .
I honestly reckon if Joey or even someone like Jennings was playing we win that game .
And if anyone thinks Walters is better than brooks you’re dreaming . He has a great running game , but he takes forever to release his pass .
People will blame brooks but the game was lost before he came on . Was I furious ... of course , but it’s a real loser mentality to dwell on the past and not focus on now living up to a challenge .
It’s a tough mountain that we have to grit our teeth , and head on up . No use moaning about it . Just put one foot in front of the other .

So you are allowed to make criticisms but other are not? I guess you know more than everyone else so your critique is more valid than anyone else's?

 

[Furious1]

To all the people that are sick of excuses and reality: the only realistic option to change things next year is to cheat the salary cap and I would rather lose than cheat.

You can whine all you like but it takes time, risk and effort to get to the top.

**We cheated the cap and that didn't work either, only the we could cheat the cap while getting someone to leave.**

I get that it takes time, but you can't blame people for wanting to see improvement of the club going in the right direction. We are a big chance of finishing lower down the table than we did last year.

It could be worse, we could have cheated the cap to win the spoon like our slimey friends.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Yep , it’s highly plausible that the broncos and warriors could beat Souths and Manly next week , and if we win we are back in 8th.
And then it means after we hopefully beat the dogs that we have to put on our big boy pants and run the table , or as close as possible .
Sure it’s going to be tough , but I honestly reckon they can do it. This is the most talented team we have had in years . And sneakily the youngest .

There is optimism and then there is insanity, I admire your insanity :grinning:

I’ve been lurking for the last 2 weeks , and geez there’s been some wrist cutting going on . I honestly think we are better than the knights , Tohs and eagles . I also think we can compete with the roosters and storm as we always match up well with them . The 2 games I think we are gonna struggle are the riff and Parra . I’d rather be optimistic than throwing the toys out of the cot like a lot on here. Packer and Joey , are going to add a lot . Also eisenhuth . That’s dynamism , aggression and consistency. All missing from Friday . Also the new boy should have a run as well.

Why is being disappointed in an insipid effort throwing the toys out of the cot?

See that’s the thing . You have confused optimism with acceptance . If I was coach , I would be ropable with Clark , Twal, walters Lawrence and Garner . And all the benji lovers on here , will bite my head off , but that defence was rubbish. There was no sense of urgency. From the middle out . It improved immensely when Blore and McIntyre came on , which saw a slight improve into half time . But the dudes 19 and Macca is 21. Mika clocks off at times as well .
I honestly reckon if Joey or even someone like Jennings was playing we win that game .
And if anyone thinks Walters is better than brooks you’re dreaming . He has a great running game , but he takes forever to release his pass .
People will blame brooks but the game was lost before he came on . Was I furious ... of course , but it’s a real loser mentality to dwell on the past and not focus on now living up to a challenge .
It’s a tough mountain that we have to grit our teeth , and head on up . No use moaning about it . Just put one foot in front of the other .

So you are allowed to make criticisms but other are not? I guess you know more than everyone else so your critique is more valid than anyone else's?

It’s Monday dude ! You’re still carrying on . That’s what I would call chucking the toys out. People are talking about accepting spoons , getting rid of the whole team , whether we should be in the comp LOL ... that’s not criticism . It’s dropping your bundle . The team is 5-7 with a good for and against . It’s not over . It’s dig in time . Time to rip in and have a go. The talent is there . We just cannot put it together for any stretch of time . I believe in the boys . I want to win with these boys. And I want them to go on a run . And so should you .
That’s all I’ll say . Continue with the bashing

 

[cochise]

To all the people that are sick of excuses and reality: the only realistic option to change things next year is to cheat the salary cap and I would rather lose than cheat.

You can whine all you like but it takes time, risk and effort to get to the top.

**We cheated the cap and that didn't work either, only the we could cheat the cap while getting someone to leave.**

I get that it takes time, but you can't blame people for wanting to see improvement of the club going in the right direction. We are a big chance of finishing lower down the table than we did last year.

It could be worse, we could have cheated the cap to win the spoon like our slimey friends.

That is one of my favourite Rugby League incidents of all time.