InBenjiWeTrust
Well-known member
and our experienced ex-captain has brain explosion and kicks on 3rd tackle, and they score :crazy
Broses
- Thread starter stryker
- Start date
sunshine_coast_tiger
New member
@Fade To Black said:
100% this. Our halves kicking game is very ordinary and has been for a long time. The midfield bomb make no sense to me. A great kicker like Sterling would have found the corner all day yesterday and tired out the opposition deep in their half.
Do we have a kicking coach? it doesn't look like it. I believe whilst both may not be blessed with good long range kicking games with hard work they could improve.
Options and depth. These are the aspects that Broses need to work on.
The opposition realises that if they get up quickly and in their face that Broses don't deal with it too well. So somehow they need to give themselves that extra half-second so they are not caught early.
They also need to learn to take better options. Sometimes they kick when they should pass and they often pass when they shouldn't… I feel they actually continue to execute a pre-determined play rather than looking at the opposition defensive line and adjust what they should do accordingly. Way too many poor options and bad executions because of it.
I didn't think their kicking game was terrible but I do think that our chase was ordinary, the team rarely applied any pressure at all on the last tackle.
The opposition realises that if they get up quickly and in their face that Broses don't deal with it too well. So somehow they need to give themselves that extra half-second so they are not caught early.
They also need to learn to take better options. Sometimes they kick when they should pass and they often pass when they shouldn't… I feel they actually continue to execute a pre-determined play rather than looking at the opposition defensive line and adjust what they should do accordingly. Way too many poor options and bad executions because of it.
I didn't think their kicking game was terrible but I do think that our chase was ordinary, the team rarely applied any pressure at all on the last tackle.
balmain boy
Well-known member
@greatodensraven said:
I don't think it's that they don't understand how to mount pressure, it's repeated poor execution which lets them down. They try to put grubbers into the in goal area but they're usually poorly directed and end up going 2m and straight into an opposition player or are way too heavy and go dead.
Back to being whipping boys again. Amazing what a couple of lost games brings out.
Can understand the disappointment - I have it too. In my opinion most are being too hard on them (they deserve some agro but…), they are still very young (yes,yes - same ole excuse, potential, potential etc. etc.). However they are not a forward like Klemmer as an example that only has to learn to put the ball under his arm and run as fast and as hard as he can into the opposition.
Being a half and 5/8 (playmakers) are the two most difficult positions to learn on the field. For starters, you are usually a bit smaller so the opposition runs their big guys at you for most of the game (Thought they improved in this department yesterday). Then you need to think quickly on your feet of what options you have
- do I pass left, right, short, long, kick soft to the ingoal, kick to the corner, put up a bomb, do I have a back rower running a good line, is there a decoy runner that is going to get in the way etc. They have to do this in split seconds. If they don't get the ball quickly, they get creamed or take the wrong option. Standing back is not the complete answer, it gives you more time, yes - it also gives the opposition more time to counter your strategy. The forwards for most of yesterday did well, and probably won the day but.... a lot of inexperience without Grant, Lawrence and Sironen. No one was running good lines to give that option.
Look, I am not saying they are faultless but there are reasons for their indecision as outlined above (am sure you all know that anyway), such as getting slow ball ( and the passes need to good), not running to the line often enough themselves, their kicking game needs to be improved substantially - we know all this as well but they are still young and inexperienced. This is not an excuse but they are not going to be Andrew Johns or Peter Sterling whilst they are 21\. They need help and time.
I think the Tigers need to put a few bob aside from Harry and get Johns, Fittler or an equally brilliant player to teach/mentor them in kicking etc. (should have been done ages ago) or this is going to take more time than most on here are going to allow.
Can understand the disappointment - I have it too. In my opinion most are being too hard on them (they deserve some agro but…), they are still very young (yes,yes - same ole excuse, potential, potential etc. etc.). However they are not a forward like Klemmer as an example that only has to learn to put the ball under his arm and run as fast and as hard as he can into the opposition.
Being a half and 5/8 (playmakers) are the two most difficult positions to learn on the field. For starters, you are usually a bit smaller so the opposition runs their big guys at you for most of the game (Thought they improved in this department yesterday). Then you need to think quickly on your feet of what options you have
- do I pass left, right, short, long, kick soft to the ingoal, kick to the corner, put up a bomb, do I have a back rower running a good line, is there a decoy runner that is going to get in the way etc. They have to do this in split seconds. If they don't get the ball quickly, they get creamed or take the wrong option. Standing back is not the complete answer, it gives you more time, yes - it also gives the opposition more time to counter your strategy. The forwards for most of yesterday did well, and probably won the day but.... a lot of inexperience without Grant, Lawrence and Sironen. No one was running good lines to give that option.
Look, I am not saying they are faultless but there are reasons for their indecision as outlined above (am sure you all know that anyway), such as getting slow ball ( and the passes need to good), not running to the line often enough themselves, their kicking game needs to be improved substantially - we know all this as well but they are still young and inexperienced. This is not an excuse but they are not going to be Andrew Johns or Peter Sterling whilst they are 21\. They need help and time.
I think the Tigers need to put a few bob aside from Harry and get Johns, Fittler or an equally brilliant player to teach/mentor them in kicking etc. (should have been done ages ago) or this is going to take more time than most on here are going to allow.
@Russell said:
Russell,good post,There is also a lack of communication between the spine,eg,Teddy makes a run and passes the ball to the sideline,RF kicks on the 3 rd tackle and the Eels score…if Brooks and Moses are to dominate at NRL level they must work on all facets of the game,granted they are young and immature still,however,they are the future of this team..they need to get right into training and practice their kicking games,their communication and the structural play...don't get me wrong,I'm all for giving younger ones a go,but these two have been touted as the ones who will control the game and lead the team around the park,they even told JT how they want to play football and he has given them some slack...these next few weeks will tell if they are going to make it in the big arena as winners of games....they have even admitted where they went wrong yesterday,now they have the chance to show us what they have learnt and what they are going to do to improve their game skills...as you said we can't afford hearing about potential or hype for much longer,they must take their game to the next level...
Our attack looks better when Moses takes control. The last 20 minutes yesterday when the game was on the line, Moses got into first receiver and looked to make something happen. Whilst nothing happened, it still looked a lot better then what Brooks was dishing up.
Brooks continues to run around the field like a headless chook at times, looking nothing like the controlled half he should be.
Maybe it's time to bite the bullet and hand Mitch the number 7 jersey and relegate Brooks to the 6.
I'm not giving up on Brooks just yet but given that he has the extra year under his belt you'd like to think he would be a bit further along by now. He shows glimpses but then undoes it with a brain dead play that we can't associate with a dominant half.
I like that there both trying to take the line on this year, it shows they're willing but the last 3 halves of football has shown that when the attack their used to isn't clicking they can struggle to conjure anything up. It was always going to happen, where teams figured out that play at the back to Teddy. I just hoped that we would've developed some other plays to resort to.
We can't underestimate the effect Parra's attack has on any attacking structure either. They've done the same thing to all 4 of their opponents thus far, including a Cowboys side who one week later put 40 points on the Roosters. JT struggled to break them, so I guess we can cut our player makers some slack considering that the attack hasn't been to shabby the 3 weeks prior.
Don't write them off just yet..
Brooks continues to run around the field like a headless chook at times, looking nothing like the controlled half he should be.
Maybe it's time to bite the bullet and hand Mitch the number 7 jersey and relegate Brooks to the 6.
I'm not giving up on Brooks just yet but given that he has the extra year under his belt you'd like to think he would be a bit further along by now. He shows glimpses but then undoes it with a brain dead play that we can't associate with a dominant half.
I like that there both trying to take the line on this year, it shows they're willing but the last 3 halves of football has shown that when the attack their used to isn't clicking they can struggle to conjure anything up. It was always going to happen, where teams figured out that play at the back to Teddy. I just hoped that we would've developed some other plays to resort to.
We can't underestimate the effect Parra's attack has on any attacking structure either. They've done the same thing to all 4 of their opponents thus far, including a Cowboys side who one week later put 40 points on the Roosters. JT struggled to break them, so I guess we can cut our player makers some slack considering that the attack hasn't been to shabby the 3 weeks prior.
Don't write them off just yet..
I dont thinks as big an issue as other here. As mentioned Foran and Norman are star players with plenty of games and they were on par with our halves.
It was just one of those games and Para are a tough team. There forwards took it out of the boys and they were all tired towards the end and found it hard to think as a unit.
I was super impressed with the defence of Broses. Sure the execution was poor but that game could have gone either way and it would have if they got some repeat sets. That was the most disappointing thing for mine and the handling errors of course.
Disappointed with the loss but all in all, the team is playing better than expected for mine and I wont say top 8 yet, but i'd bet my house we wont be last.
It was just one of those games and Para are a tough team. There forwards took it out of the boys and they were all tired towards the end and found it hard to think as a unit.
I was super impressed with the defence of Broses. Sure the execution was poor but that game could have gone either way and it would have if they got some repeat sets. That was the most disappointing thing for mine and the handling errors of course.
Disappointed with the loss but all in all, the team is playing better than expected for mine and I wont say top 8 yet, but i'd bet my house we wont be last.
My only concern with our halves is that the set play is usually a death or glory one. Well either grab a try out of it or turnover possession on an early tackle. I haven't figured out what our system is. A system that you trust and use every week and base your structure around. Surely the flash plays should be less prominent.
goldcoast_tiger
New member
@TrueTiger said:
What has a winger being badly out of position for a pass from a FB got to do with bad communication between the spine?
And Farahs kick resulted in great field position for us( if it's the same one that I'm thinking of).
supercoach
Well-known member
@tiga4eva said:
Other than Teddy the Broses have very little in the way of targets. At this stage we do not have anything at all happening around the ruck,we also don't have a damaging edge runner. So basically its the quick shift to the right or nothing. Once upon a time we were the masters of the blind side move, okay we flogged it to death, but we did get the odd result, now nothing happens on the blind side. I remember St George a few years ago had the one play, a quick shot to the left and a second man play, it was really successful for a while than every team knew what to expect and they struggled big time to score points. I think we are going through the same thing
Black_n_White
New member
@supercoach said:
Well put supercoach. I dont think its as dire as it seems though, as the shift we use has a few variations we havent put into practice.
Lawrence when he was actually a decent centre could run against the grain like no mans business. Teams knowing our wide shifting plays could be eaten alive by such a run being employed a few times a game. Whether the man gets through, or other times runs an effective decoy putting doubt in defenders minds its all the same thing.
Set pieces I often liken to playing poker. Having a tell only works against you if you dont either know you have one, or cannot put it on to your advantage occasionally. Variations on the theme.
For now they know to watch Teddy on the edges…. add a Lawrence against the grain and the defenders are either caught out, or next time they see the shape are wary... a good decoy and a bad defensive read and Moses is a slimy ball runner... You dont need a whole new bag of tricks, just create that overlap and find the defender who is misreading the options.
InBenjiWeTrust
Well-known member
IMHO, Simona & Naiqama are dangerous edge runners, but how many quality balls did they receive?
Tim Sheens
Well-known member
They fared okay against a very good and experienced opposition pairing against the Eels. Sure, they could have been a bit better, but that was a reasonably brutal and grinding match.
Only a metre or so more accuracy in a kick and a winger not tripping up would have made a world of difference. Having one, or even better, both of our first choice edge players take the field, would have opened up their attacking options immensely.
We got beaten by a decent team in a dour affair, it happens.
Only a metre or so more accuracy in a kick and a winger not tripping up would have made a world of difference. Having one, or even better, both of our first choice edge players take the field, would have opened up their attacking options immensely.
We got beaten by a decent team in a dour affair, it happens.
I remember us all discussing this issue before the season started and the consensus was that Teddy must touch the ball as much as possible. A few of us didn't agree for the reasons we have seen the past two weeks.
Teddy is amazing…very hard to stop and hungry to score. However when every backline movement is designed to get him the ball he can be shut down due to defences easily predicting where the ball is going. I don't necessarily agree with you Supercoach that we don't have options. Rowdy is a strong edge runner, both centers have genuine pace carrying the ball and have footwork. We also have a bulldozer on the wing that is criminally underutilized. Nofo is only used to take hit ups and contest bombs in attack. Contesting bombs is not his strength despite the amazing try he scored a few years ago...he is better used barging his way over from close in crash plays. One try that backs this up is when he ran onto the ball and skittles Slater to score in the corner. That play should be used more often.
Point being, we have genuine try scores in our backline who get starved of the ball due to us having a superstar fullback. Use them!
Teddy is amazing…very hard to stop and hungry to score. However when every backline movement is designed to get him the ball he can be shut down due to defences easily predicting where the ball is going. I don't necessarily agree with you Supercoach that we don't have options. Rowdy is a strong edge runner, both centers have genuine pace carrying the ball and have footwork. We also have a bulldozer on the wing that is criminally underutilized. Nofo is only used to take hit ups and contest bombs in attack. Contesting bombs is not his strength despite the amazing try he scored a few years ago...he is better used barging his way over from close in crash plays. One try that backs this up is when he ran onto the ball and skittles Slater to score in the corner. That play should be used more often.
Point being, we have genuine try scores in our backline who get starved of the ball due to us having a superstar fullback. Use them!
tig_prmz
Well-known member
they need to sit down and watch some clips of guys like cronk, thurston and johns.
@stryker said:
Call me crazy, but I think missing Lawrence was possibly the difference for us last weekend. He has run good lines this year, would have kept his opposite numbers guessing all game. He could well have been the one to break the game open for us.
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