Brutal Reality - We lack talent

[gallagher]

It seems that many of you won't be happy unless we make the 8.

You make it sound like were asking too much

I just read somewhere (unsure of accuracy) that the Broncos have only missed the finals twice in the last 29 years

I think they missed out in their first three seasons and one a few years ago under Henjak.

 

[will1999]

It seems that many of you won't be happy unless we make the 8.

You make it sound like were asking too much

I just read somewhere (unsure of accuracy) that the Broncos have only missed the finals twice in the last 29 years

I think they missed out in their first three seasons and one a few years ago under Henjak.

1 GF in the last 10 years and missed final series once or twice since 2006

 

[happy_tiger]

Im sorry but am I missing something? We are in a rebuilding phase arnt we? Why would you even expect top 8 after the crap year we had last year?. I just want improvement. Better defence and a 10-11 spot will do me. Next year I will be looking at the 8.

As the vast majority of the squad are already signed up for 2019, I would hope that they are looking at the eight as realistic for this year.

I agree with you @formerguest. If we gel this year and look solid like we did at the end of last year ill be extremely happy. Added to this if our young up and comers continue to improve it will hold us in good stead for the years to come.

Man this forum is gunna be one hell of a place when we lose up to 5 of our first 5 games.

No club has made the finals after losing their first 5/5

Cowboys lost 4 from recent memory

 

[Harvey]

It's the Gym mate …it's the Gym !

No, it's us, never satisfied always complaining, fans, …...........and the gym, ............and the general location, ..............and management, ..............and the way we treated past legends, ..............and the media, doesn't like us...........and the refs don't like us, and.....................haul away you'll hear me sing, were bound for West Australia.

Don't forget the 5 home grounds :smiley:

It's - on the bus slogan..

It's the vibe

 

[JD Tiger]

Im sorry but am I missing something? We are in a rebuilding phase arnt we? Why would you even expect top 8 after the crap year we had last year?. I just want improvement. Better defence and a 10-11 spot will do me. Next year I will be looking at the 8.

As the vast majority of the squad are already signed up for 2019, I would hope that they are looking at the eight as realistic for this year.

I agree with you @formerguest. If we gel this year and look solid like we did at the end of last year ill be extremely happy. Added to this if our young up and comers continue to improve it will hold us in good stead for the years to come.

Man this forum is gunna be one hell of a place when we lose up to 5 of our first 5 games.

No club has made the finals after losing their first 5/5

Cowboys lost 4 from recent memory

I do remember that the Broncos made the finals one year where after ten rounds, they were 1 win, 1 draw, and 8 losses. That is the Broncos though, and possibly only they could have done that.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

I don't get the criticism of Ivan. Taylor did basically **everything wrong. Bad tactics, poor culture** in the team, terrible most of the time in his media presence. Yes he tried and maybe given another opportunity he will do a better job elsewhere.

Ivan to me has done all he can do. I don't like the way his team selections are looking or some of his recruitment's but I think we need to give him a lot more time prior to judging him.

I feel these are simply opinions, but Taylor got his team of bad tactics & poor culture 1 win out of the Top 8 in 2016 while being trashed on from all levels at the club.

Now I dont essentially care that Taylor was punted [never was a fan], but if one feels its safe to critic Taylor and his applications, you have to now accept you have set a bar that Cleary needs to meet & improve on.

So what does that look like:

1\. Cleary needs to maintain a better than 33% win margin to keep his job [Pascoe's Benchmark]
2\. Cleary needs to be 1 win from the Top 8 by the end of the season
3\. Cleary needs to show the team has improved its game tactics
4\. Cleary needs to improve team culture

Obviously Ivan gets a better platform to achieve these targets as he got to build his own roster & drive his own bus. But If you support the decision of the club to terminate Taylor, you cant accept anything less from Ivan.

 

[innsaneink]

^^ fair enough ^^

 

[innsaneink]

^^ fair enough ^^

 

[Tiger_Steve]

I don't get the criticism of Ivan. Taylor did basically **everything wrong. Bad tactics, poor culture** in the team, terrible most of the time in his media presence. Yes he tried and maybe given another opportunity he will do a better job elsewhere.

Ivan to me has done all he can do. I don't like the way his team selections are looking or some of his recruitment's but I think we need to give him a lot more time prior to judging him.

I feel these are simply opinions, but Taylor got his team of bad tactics & poor culture 1 win out of the Top 8 in 2016 while being trashed on from all levels at the club.

Now I dont essentially care that Taylor was punted [never was a fan], but if one feels its safe to critic Taylor and his applications, you have to now accept you have set a bar that Cleary needs to meet & improve on.

So what does that look like:

1\. Cleary needs to maintain a better than 33% win margin to keep his job [Pascoe's Benchmark]
2\. Cleary needs to be 1 win from the Top 8 by the end of the season
3\. Cleary needs to show the team has improved its game tactics
4\. Cleary needs to improve team culture

Obviously Ivan gets a better platform to achieve these targets as he got to build his own roster & drive his own bus. But If you support the decision of the club to terminate Taylor, you cant accept anything less from Ivan.

Well said Watto

 

[earl]

Watto - I hear what you are saying but I think our club was such a mess when Taylor was punted that we just need to judge IC on his actions and give him some leeway. Yes the club needs to perform because it's first grade rugby league but I don't want to put some arbitrary criteria on the club.

I don't think you can prove that the tactics are better or that the culture is better and coming up with win percentages to me just puts everyone into a hole.

I do think at some point IC will have to be sacked if the club is a mess. That is the life of a first grade coach. I just hope we have people running the club who look at our situation and make decisions based on that.

We've now had 4 quality young players leave the club who were all juniors. One thing that I'm sure of is that we cannot continue to view the game as a pathway for our young juniors to come in and lead us to greatness. If we jag a junior from our system or elsewhere and they are a quality player and have the requisite character required to lead our team then great. The problem is that our strategy has been wrong and we've been screwed over following that strategy. We need to play the game based on the way other clubs play the game and to me that means putting good people in charge and supporting them. If we realise a bad decision has been made then we need to adjust. I think we did that with Taylor but we need to do it with IC as well.

I suppose all the talk about criticising IC or comparing him to Taylor is to me way too early.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Watto - I hear what you are saying but I think our club was such a mess when Taylor was punted that we just need to judge IC on his actions and give him some leeway. Yes the club needs to perform because it's first grade rugby league but I don't want to put some arbitrary criteria on the club.

I don't think you can prove that the tactics are better or that the culture is better and coming up with win percentages to me just puts everyone into a hole.

I do think at some point IC will have to be sacked if the club is a mess. That is the life of a first grade coach. I just hope we have people running the club who look at our situation and make decisions based on that.

We've now had 4 quality young players leave the club who were all juniors. One thing that I'm sure of is that we cannot continue to view the game as a pathway for our young juniors to come in and lead us to greatness. If we jag a junior from our system or elsewhere and they are a quality player and have the requisite character required to lead our team then great. The problem is that our strategy has been wrong and we've been screwed over following that strategy. We need to play the game based on the way other clubs play the game and to me that means putting good people in charge and supporting them. If we realise a bad decision has been made then we need to adjust. I think we did that with Taylor but we need to do it with IC as well.

I suppose all the talk about **criticising IC or comparing him to Taylor is to me way too early**.

Thats a fair scenario, and I'd say we should be tentative of any critic [except his bloody cliches] until its clear those targets wont be achieved for the season.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Cleary should and will be judged on this year. He's built his side and as such the results lay with him, especially when he had so much of the cap at his disposal.

 

[Milky]

Cleary should and will be judged on this year. He's built his side and as such the results lay with him, especially when he had so much of the cap at his disposal.

X2

He chose to spread the cap accross depth rather than marquees. Lets see how it plays out.

 

[Go_You_Good_Things]

Cleary should and will be judged on this year. He's built his side and as such the results lay with him, especially when he had so much of the cap at his disposal.

X2

He chose to spread the cap accross depth rather than marquees. Lets see how it plays out.

Remind me again which of these marquees agreed to sign for us, but were rejected by IC to instead sign depth ?

 

[The_Patriot]

Only "4\. Cleary needs to improve club culture" has any relevance.

The rest is just a silly apple to orange comparison defending a coach who couldn't change the culture.

To me all Cleary has to do is not sign morons like Moses Suli to big deals to be an improvement.

 

[earl]

Cleary should and will be judged on this year. He's built his side and as such the results lay with him, especially when he had so much of the cap at his disposal.

X2

He chose to spread the cap accross depth rather than marquees. Lets see how it plays out.

Remind me again which of these marquees agreed to sign for us, but were rejected by IC to instead sign depth ?

Exactly. We had 2 and potentially 3 marquee players leave us to sign elsewhere and one up and coming gun player self-implode.

Cronk clearly was going to join the Roosters in a pre-organised deal which is probably dodgy.

I can't see us purchasing marquee players easily. We can purchase players that could develop into those type of players like the Knights have done with Ponga.

I just want improvement and that includes not having guys playing for us who are looking to leave as quickly as possible if they don't get everything their way. We had a captain trying to get other clubs to sign our players. I've never seen such a disgrace in my life but that is where we were at. That isn't all Taylor's fault either as Suli imploding isn't IC's fault.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Cleary should and will be judged on this year. He's built his side and as such the results lay with him, especially when he had so much of the cap at his disposal.

X2

He chose to spread the cap accross depth rather than marquees. Lets see how it plays out.

Remind me again which of these marquees agreed to sign for us, but were rejected by IC to instead sign depth ?

Nice spin, but our signing show Cleary couldnt attract any marquee players!

 

[hobbo]

Only "4\. Cleary needs to improve club culture" has any relevance.

The rest is just a silly apple to orange comparison defending a coach who couldn't change the culture.

To me all Cleary has to do is not sign morons like Moses Suli to big deals to be an improvement.

And yet he signed Reynolds for 4 YEARS :roll

Go figure !

 

[The_Patriot]

Only "4\. Cleary needs to improve club culture" has any relevance.

The rest is just a silly apple to orange comparison defending a coach who couldn't change the culture.

To me all Cleary has to do is not sign morons like Moses Suli to big deals to be an improvement.

And yet he signed Reynolds for 4 YEARS :roll

Go figure !

You should check out some of Suli' instagram work. To compare him to Reynolds is insulting.
Josh is the most personable and respectable person off the field. A nice decent guy.

Reynolds and Packers signings are what we can and will judge Cleay on. He bought them in a deliberate manner to change our culture.

Let's see how that works out.

 

[The_Patriot]

I should add that I'm not sold on Reynolds the football player though.

Gamble is looking every bit our future 5/8.

Not sure where that leaves Reynolds