But how do we get good this year?

[cochise]

For a long time we have struggled with lower teams and it all comes down to ability, we have a mid level roster. To compete with the better side we need to be at 100% effort in those games, that takes a lot out of you, especially if you are only competing and not winning those games. The problem is after a run of tough games the side as a collective takes a breath and sees a week where that 100% required for the top teams isn't needed and then we fall in a heap.

 

[Magpie1969]

Good question, not an easy answer. Our team on paper is mid table if everyone is fit. Maguire can motivate for a couple of games but it can't be sustained week in week out. Sad our best player is a loaned player who will return to Storm. Some players have improved their games. Cleary stuff us up and until these overpriced players finish their pensions with us we are going nowhere. 2022 appears our best chance money wise to move forward. I think we also live in the past with the 2005 Grand Final and Marshall connection.

 

[jirskyr]

Personally I thought we should have shifted the ball more on early tackles against Warriors.

When the opposition thinks they have you with line speed, they will rush the middle and you need to move the ball around to negate that rushing tactic. It's a little difficult with two makeshift centres but it still needs to be considered.

Tigers seem to get really conservative when we are trying to manage the game, particularly in the middle 40 mins. I wrote about this previously but we looked very threatening in the back 20 of quite a number of matches where we were chasing points, and thought the handling did suffer a little from that more attacking mindset, it's not as if the handling is perfect for the more conservative periods, esp. if we are under the pump from a rushing defensive line.

We also open most matches quite well, so the first and last 20s need to be replicated more.

I'm no coach but I'd have Grant continue what he's doing in the first 20, then ask Brooks and Benji to be more attacking-minded after 20 mins. The first 20 should be focused on ball control and allowing Grant to dart or kick when he sees an opportunity. After that, it's time for Benji and Brooks to open up and not only spread it on tackle 4.

With BJ, Tommy, Garner, Luciano, there are plenty of options for a wide shift so long as these boys are willing to run hard lines, and after 20 mins the opposition will have been softened enough to allow more ball movement.

I'd also swap Doueihi and Mbye for now. Get Mbye to take 1000 bombs at training because that's his major defect at FB, and Doueihi is just lacking that bit of mobility in the back. A lot of folks suspect he's injured and we saw something similar with Mbye last year when he just couldn't get to top speed and it was noticeable, compared even to this year how he has his feet back.

Encourage Mbye to really use his pace in the backline moves and encourage Doueihi, as centre, to get some early ball and try to get inside his opposition centre, because he's really effective in post-contact carry.

Other fowards changes are more obvious I think; Packer's back and he does have that starch. I think Aloiai should go to the bench and be reserved for impact. Put Huth or Twal to other starting prop and lock, keep Luciano. Put Garner on notice, because he's drifting in and out of games too often - in another month or two you could realistically start Blore in the backrow.

 

[trentrunciman]

Personally I thought we should have shifted the ball more on early tackles against Warriors.

When the opposition thinks they have you with line speed, they will rush the middle and you need to move the ball around to negate that rushing tactic. It's a little difficult with two makeshift centres but it still needs to be considered.

Tigers seem to get really conservative when we are trying to manage the game, particularly in the middle 40 mins. I wrote about this previously but we looked very threatening in the back 20 of quite a number of matches where we were chasing points, and thought the handling did suffer a little from that more attacking mindset, it's not as if the handling is perfect for the more conservative periods, esp. if we are under the pump from a rushing defensive line.

We also open most matches quite well, so the first and last 20s need to be replicated more.

I'm no coach but I'd have Grant continue what he's doing in the first 20, then ask Brooks and Benji to be more attacking-minded after 20 mins. The first 20 should be focused on ball control and allowing Grant to dart or kick when he sees an opportunity. After that, it's time for Benji and Brooks to open up and not only spread it on tackle 4.

With BJ, Tommy, Garner, Luciano, there are plenty of options for a wide shift so long as these boys are willing to run hard lines, and after 20 mins the opposition will have been softened enough to allow more ball movement.

I'd also swap Doueihi and Mbye for now. Get Mbye to take 1000 bombs at training because that's his major defect at FB, and Doueihi is just lacking that bit of mobility in the back. A lot of folks suspect he's injured and we saw something similar with Mbye last year when he just couldn't get to top speed and it was noticeable, compared even to this year how he has his feet back.

Encourage Mbye to really use his pace in the backline moves and encourage Doueihi, as centre, to get some early ball and try to get early ball inside his opposition centre, because he's really effective in post-contact carry.

Other fowards changes are more obvious I think; Packer's back and he does have that starch. I think Aloiai should go to the bench and be reserved for impact. Put Huth or Twal to other starting prop and lock, keep Luciano. Put Garner on notice, because he's drifting in and out of games too often - in another month or two you could realistically start Blore in the backrow.

we'll get there buddy, just not this year and maybe not next year but we will mate.

 

[jirskyr]

For a long time we have struggled with lower teams and it all comes down to ability, we have a mid level roster. To compete with the better side we need to be at 100% effort in those games, that takes a lot out of you, especially if you are only competing and not winning those games. The problem is after a run of tough games the side as a collective takes a breath and sees a week where that 100% required for the top teams isn't needed and then we fall in a heap.

The interesting part about 2020 is we have actually been VERY good against some lower-ranked sides (Cows, Dogs, Broncos all blow-outs), so it's not so simple as "struggle against lower teams".

I think we struggle against teams that play out the 80 mins - teams that absorb our opening salvo and fight back tend to give us a lot of trouble. These include better sides like Panthers, Raiders and Eels, all whom we troubled for long periods, and also lesser teams that stuck with us like Titans and Warriors. Broncos and Cowboys folded inside 20 mins, and in that respect we are flat-track bullies. Our attack is still in the top few sides for total points because of these blow-outs.

Last round also seemed to indicate that the lower-placed teams are starting to find their stride, because Dogs, Dragons, Titans, Broncos all went close to winning their matches against superior opponents, and Roosters in particular have only just gotten the job done against Warriors and Titans in consecutive weeks. So I think we are really into the arm-wrestle part of the season, where wins are increasingly hard-fought, and Tigers STILL aren't able to fight hard week on week. Probably about 2 out of every 3 weeks we fight hard for 80 mins, which still isn't enough.

 

[Magpie1969]

For a long time we have struggled with lower teams and it all comes down to ability, we have a mid level roster. To compete with the better side we need to be at 100% effort in those games, that takes a lot out of you, especially if you are only competing and not winning those games. The problem is after a run of tough games the side as a collective takes a breath and sees a week where that 100% required for the top teams isn't needed and then we fall in a heap.

The interesting part about 2020 is we have actually been VERY good against some lower-ranked sides (Cows, Dogs, Broncos all blow-outs), so it's not so simple as "struggle against lower teams".

I think we struggle against teams that play out the 80 mins - teams that absorb our opening salvo and fight back tend to give us a lot of trouble. These include better sides like Panthers, Raiders and Eels, all whom we troubled for long periods, and also lesser teams that stuck with us like Titans and Warriors. Broncos and Cowboys folded inside 20 mins, and in that respect we are flat-track bullies. Our attack is still in the top few sides for total points because of these blow-outs.

Last round also seemed to indicate that the lower-placed teams are starting to find their stride, because Dogs, Dragons, Titans, Broncos all went close to winning their matches against superior opponents, and Roosters in particular have only just gotten the job done against Warriors and Titans in consecutive weeks. So I think we are really into the arm-wrestle part of the season, where wins are increasingly hard-fought, and Tigers STILL aren't able to fight hard week on week. Probably about 2 out of every 3 weeks we fight hard for 80 mins, which still isn't enough.

Great teams every game find a way to win, ugly or not. Need to first get our team to concentrate for 80 minutes then we can move onto winning games

 

[cochise]

Personally I thought we should have shifted the ball more on early tackles against Warriors.

When the opposition thinks they have you with line speed, they will rush the middle and you need to move the ball around to negate that rushing tactic. It's a little difficult with two makeshift centres but it still needs to be considered.

Tigers seem to get really conservative when we are trying to manage the game, particularly in the middle 40 mins. I wrote about this previously but we looked very threatening in the back 20 of quite a number of matches where we were chasing points, and thought the handling did suffer a little from that more attacking mindset, it's not as if the handling is perfect for the more conservative periods, esp. if we are under the pump from a rushing defensive line.

We also open most matches quite well, so the first and last 20s need to be replicated more.

I'm no coach but I'd have Grant continue what he's doing in the first 20, then ask Brooks and Benji to be more attacking-minded after 20 mins. The first 20 should be focused on ball control and allowing Grant to dart or kick when he sees an opportunity. After that, it's time for Benji and Brooks to open up and not only spread it on tackle 4.

With BJ, Tommy, Garner, Luciano, there are plenty of options for a wide shift so long as these boys are willing to run hard lines, and after 20 mins the opposition will have been softened enough to allow more ball movement.

I'd also swap Doueihi and Mbye for now. Get Mbye to take 1000 bombs at training because that's his major defect at FB, and Doueihi is just lacking that bit of mobility in the back. A lot of folks suspect he's injured and we saw something similar with Mbye last year when he just couldn't get to top speed and it was noticeable, compared even to this year how he has his feet back.

Encourage Mbye to really use his pace in the backline moves and encourage Doueihi, as centre, to get some early ball and try to get inside his opposition centre, because he's really effective in post-contact carry.

Other fowards changes are more obvious I think; Packer's back and he does have that starch. I think Aloiai should go to the bench and be reserved for impact. Put Huth or Twal to other starting prop and lock, keep Luciano. Put Garner on notice, because he's drifting in and out of games too often - in another month or two you could realistically start Blore in the backrow.

Mate, really good post and agree with most of it.

 

[Lauren]

Despite our weaknesses and the quality of our team, I think the competition is suited for our strengths.
The top teams do have massive experienced packs, size and speed across the park but the cohesion and ability of their spine players is what essentially makes them excel.
They're harder to stop/contain, have strike everywhere and the key players lift to get their teams out of trouble. This is where we need to be matching it with them (spine or team cohesion) but our main issue is we still don't know which is our best team.

I believe we need to be playing like we have nothing to lose, that's the mental attitude this team should have in each game. They just simply need to work toward getting things to work in our favour and compete in absolutely everything. We may be smaller but we're fitter and if we can do this I believe we run the other teams ragged. This is why it frustrates me that we're unable to stick to structures at crucial times because it's our only let down and the speed of the game couldn't be tailor made for our team.

 

[weststigers]

Maguire believes it all comes down to "attitude", particularly in being prepared to aim up in defence. He seems confident that he has the players to be more consistent and successful than they currently are.

But, does he know the reason for the "attitude" that some display? Does he look at himself, for instance, and his man-management methods?

Does he truly understand the dynamics/personalities/character of the individuals that make up the team? By getting the best "attitude" from 17 individuals is how the team will be more successful.

A ranting, screaming and chair kicking half-time pep talk (when they are leading) might change the attitude of "some", but not "all" of them.

So, while we are all having our say on players that are letting us down (and, isn't it weird that we don't agree who they are?), the form of this team sits squarely with the coaching staff and their ability to get the best attitude from each individual. I'm more hopeful than confident that they have the talents to do it.

You could slot any or all coaches into that summation and a thousand other questions and still not have the answers why some weeks they just don't fire.
It is a taxing game physically and mentally with a short turn around - sometimes the mind and body are just not in tune - regardless of what the coach says or how he delivers it.
The best players are those that can consistently produce it every week, and they are a rare breed.

Fair comment, but, what's the answer to the original post ...."how do we get good this year"?

My opinion is that it will require honest reflection and flexibility in the way that the coaching staff do their job.

What's yours? Or can it just not happen?

How do we get good?

With the season in the balance, I wouldn't mind seeing a 2005 style mentality where we simply try to outscore the opposition.

Attack this year has been very good and defence so-so.

Kick to the corners...
Hit teams at the edges 2 or 3 times a set.
High attacking intensity - quick play the balls, engage the line, quick passing
Quick line speed in defence

We're fit enough to execute...

 

[TheDaBoss]

just get good

 

[gallagher]

just get good

And then more gooder

 

[TheDaBoss]

just get good

And then more gooder

more goodderer after that

 

[BZN]

The Tigers have been playing well since the Titans game. We backed up the Penrith game with an abysmal performance against Souths and then again against the Warriors after a brutal game against the Eels. Those two performances illustrate we have no chance with our draw.

Yeah, pretty spot on but there are plenty of complaining threads. How can they play better?

"how can they play better?" @watersider....unless I am completely mistaken, our blokes ARE playing to the best of their ability.
But that ability as individuals apart from Harry Grant, and that ability as a team just aint good enough.
Nothing is gonna change until we get at least 2 or 3 more players of Harry Grants ability, while retaining him next year.

 

[OzLuke]

what the warriors did last week that we didn't, was offload. We were chasing their offloads, and they were easily picking off our one out hitups. We didn't run them anywhere around the park. If we promoted the ball more, we would've tired their forwards out and rolled them.

 

[izotope]

Before warriors game i believe we were #1 at stopping second phase play so put the warriors game down to attitude. Cue was in the rack after 10 minutes.

Grant needs a rest or sometimes just needs to distribute quicker.
I would like to see Benji at 7 and Brooks at 6 with Brooks first thought to be take the line on (like Foran) and distribute based off what the defense does.
Bit more variation in 5th tackle option would be nice, or an early kick in the line to keep them on their toes


Leiluma side needs more spreading from the middle, they look super vulnerable if its 3 on 2. Nofo will rush the centre 100% of the time and teams know it.

Other then that our best performances have been by no suprise is when we start getting fast play the balls in the middle. We should be moving quick and pushing for quick play the balls and our attack is a completely different side.

 

[Telltails]

Maguire believes it all comes down to "attitude", particularly in being prepared to aim up in defence. He seems confident that he has the players to be more consistent and successful than they currently are.

But, does he know the reason for the "attitude" that some display? Does he look at himself, for instance, and his man-management methods?

Does he truly understand the dynamics/personalities/character of the individuals that make up the team? By getting the best "attitude" from 17 individuals is how the team will be more successful.

A ranting, screaming and chair kicking half-time pep talk (when they are leading) might change the attitude of "some", but not "all" of them.

So, while we are all having our say on players that are letting us down (and, isn't it weird that we don't agree who they are?), the form of this team sits squarely with the coaching staff and their ability to get the best attitude from each individual. I'm more hopeful than confident that they have the talents to do it.

You could slot any or all coaches into that summation and a thousand other questions and still not have the answers why some weeks they just don't fire.
It is a taxing game physically and mentally with a short turn around - sometimes the mind and body are just not in tune - regardless of what the coach says or how he delivers it.
The best players are those that can consistently produce it every week, and they are a rare breed.

Fair comment, but, what's the answer to the original post ...."how do we get good this year"?

My opinion is that it will require honest reflection and flexibility in the way that the coaching staff do their job.

What's yours? Or can it just not happen?

No easy answer. Still think it comes back to the ability of the squad.
The one obvious difference in our team to others going better is the difference in the ability of the playing group. I don't think Maguire or any coach for that manner can make ordinary squads perform week in.week out and rise to the level of other teams if they are simply not good enough.
There is a reason that the Roosters go after the best players if they can't produce their own it keeps them camped at the top of the comp.
The one thing I can see from this squad which is a motley crue is that Maguire has got them competing every week, some weeks better than others but that will happen with all teams - hence some very ordinary performances from the some of the more fancied teams this week.
I think he his a good coach but his biggest test will be recruiting and retention and that seems to be a club problem and will take more than one man to change that perception - but he will only get so long.

So, given that "ability" for quite a few of our current squad would seem to have reached a static level, it's unlikely that there is any upside for 2020.

But, I take your views and agree with many of them.

Only my opinion - which in the scheme of things means very little. Any win this year for me is a good win and when we lose I just hope we compete. If we did manage to make the eight I would be surprised and ecstatic.

 

[Rugba]

What I find funny is McGuire blames “attitude “, very poor choice of words it’s not attitude that has caused the losses , otherwise if it is “attitude” the team has ,assigned massive problems . The one player that actually did have what I classify a attitude problem will be back once his suspension is over . For me what BJ. Did that was attitude , missing tackles etc , has got to do more with trust , ability , and character to dig in

 

[watersider]

Personally I thought we should have shifted the ball more on early tackles against Warriors.

When the opposition thinks they have you with line speed, they will rush the middle and you need to move the ball around to negate that rushing tactic. It's a little difficult with two makeshift centres but it still needs to be considered.

Tigers seem to get really conservative when we are trying to manage the game, particularly in the middle 40 mins. I wrote about this previously but we looked very threatening in the back 20 of quite a number of matches where we were chasing points, and thought the handling did suffer a little from that more attacking mindset, it's not as if the handling is perfect for the more conservative periods, esp. if we are under the pump from a rushing defensive line.

We also open most matches quite well, so the first and last 20s need to be replicated more.

I'm no coach but I'd have Grant continue what he's doing in the first 20, then ask Brooks and Benji to be more attacking-minded after 20 mins. The first 20 should be focused on ball control and allowing Grant to dart or kick when he sees an opportunity. After that, it's time for Benji and Brooks to open up and not only spread it on tackle 4.

With BJ, Tommy, Garner, Luciano, there are plenty of options for a wide shift so long as these boys are willing to run hard lines, and after 20 mins the opposition will have been softened enough to allow more ball movement.

I'd also swap Doueihi and Mbye for now. Get Mbye to take 1000 bombs at training because that's his major defect at FB, and Doueihi is just lacking that bit of mobility in the back. A lot of folks suspect he's injured and we saw something similar with Mbye last year when he just couldn't get to top speed and it was noticeable, compared even to this year how he has his feet back.

Encourage Mbye to really use his pace in the backline moves and encourage Doueihi, as centre, to get some early ball and try to get inside his opposition centre, because he's really effective in post-contact carry.

Other fowards changes are more obvious I think; Packer's back and he does have that starch. I think Aloiai should go to the bench and be reserved for impact. Put Huth or Twal to other starting prop and lock, keep Luciano. Put Garner on notice, because he's drifting in and out of games too often - in another month or two you could realistically start Blore in the backrow.

Yeah, I agree. I wonder if this goes against Madge football a little to play this way. I think we've got a squad that can play almost as well as the good sides at their style of play, which is pretty good considering our squad but its not enough to beat them or to win consistently against anyone. So a different attacking approach wouldn't really hurt at this stage and I think it suits a Benji Marshall team to be a little unleashed. I think it would be fun to watch, but maybe not more successful.

 

[Needaname]

What I noticed in that game is we failed to capitalise on our field position.
Shifting the ball can only happen when you have speed on your edges which we don’t.
Most importantly is not only the one out playing, but what we failed to do was to play to a channel.
One set we had a full 6 on their line and we went far left. In the next play we went to the middle for a settler, then we went right trying to score our wide.
In my opinion we were pulling the defence out but then we went to each point across the field giving the Warriors enough time to adjust and slide. We had no inside or outside plays that keeps pulling the defence compressed to a side.
That 6 we should have gone a couple in that Chanel, next into the middle with a ball back inside to a runner from inside out again keeping the defence compressed within the channel.
That would have given us two plays to give our right hand side backs a chance to score a try against a stretched defensive line.