CEO

[mike]

I know of a sponsor who wrote Pascoe an email some two-three months ago. The email discussed amongst other things, the performance of the team and make up of the board.

There were two main points raised in particular

1) Firstly, the sponsor expressed their desire for it to be communicated to the board that the current board arrangement appeared to lack direct accountability to stakeholders. There was no direct link between sponsors/fans and the board - no means of voting right membership in Wests Tigers.

2) The 2nd point raised by the sponsor was the fact that our board didn't have footy experience and pointed to Penrith and the Roosters as an example (Greg Alexander is a board member for Penrith & Luke Ricketson is a board member for the Roosters).

The sponsor was not even given the courtesy of an acknowledgement let alone a reply.

Fair to say, the sponsor wont be back in 2022.

Would you care to tell us who that sponsor is ?

Is that a fair question on a public platform?

 

[tigerbalm]

I know of a sponsor who wrote Pascoe an email some two-three months ago. The email discussed amongst other things, the performance of the team and make up of the board.

There were two main points raised in particular

1) Firstly, the sponsor expressed their desire for it to be communicated to the board that the current board arrangement appeared to lack direct accountability to stakeholders. There was no direct link between sponsors/fans and the board - no means of voting right membership in Wests Tigers.

2) The 2nd point raised by the sponsor was the fact that our board didn't have footy experience and pointed to Penrith and the Roosters as an example (Greg Alexander is a board member for Penrith & Luke Ricketson is a board member for the Roosters).

The sponsor was not even given the courtesy of an acknowledgement let alone a reply.

Fair to say, the sponsor wont be back in 2022.

Would you care to tell us who that sponsor is ?

Pascoe Suit Hire and Hair Emporium.

 

[BZN]

Profit itself isn't important.
As you can see on the aesthetically pleasing graphs on that link, the various revenue streams have increased, which has given us the ability to extend spending on football operations (which has famously been thrifty in the past).
It's all a bit simplistic, understandably I suppose, but that's the ultimate goal on that side. Make more money so we can spend more money.

Predominantly due to "other income", which is donations and grants.

These are pretty common within Australian sporting clubs (at least AFL and NRL) aren't they?
Either way, I'm not defending Pascoe (far from it), but just pointing out that 'profit' isn't a realistic proposition for a professional sporting organisation.

The point I’m making is that the reason we are ‘commercially sound’ off the field is due to grants and donations, not great management.

Corporate partnerships have also grown..

Has it? According to the chart the revenue in sponsorships, hospitality and events has stayed more or less stagnant from 2017-2019, whilst margins have improved.

Who improves the margins? Who attracts the donations and grants.

It's a funny thing I think - if Madge is only measured by on-field success (or lack of it), why do you guys drill down into the nitty-gritty of what the CEO is delivering? Either he makes the club self-reliant / financial or he does not. The mechanisms by which he achieves that are far far secondary of concern.

The question is - will a new CEO deliver better on-field performance, and if so, by what mechanisms does that CEO achieve a direct influence on team output?

I drill down onto the nitty gritty of what he's delivering because the more you dig the more you find out that it's all smoke and mirrors.

Let's talk margins, it appears on face value that they've increased but given he conveniently lumps sponsorships, hospitality and events together, the lower margin in 2018 is possibly (and probably) due to a higher proportion of events being held (which is obviously going to have a higher element of cost than pure sponsorship).

Onto the mechanisms, it absolutely does matter how and where the money comes from because **donations can't be considered recurring revenue.** You can broadly forecast out merchandise sales and ticket sales etc, but how can you with any surety rely on donations to get you through? What happens if they stop donating? That means a huge revenue stream dries up and we're screwed. It is the antithesis of self reliance. As CEO it's important for him to create recurring revenue streams, not donations that can be turned off at any point. That is business 101.

Last week you asked me what my experience is dealing with CEO's, to which I responded I deal with them every day due to my work. What's your experience dealing with them?

Absolutely donations can be considered as reoccurring revenue and the revenue stream from donations can be predicted and budged for. A donation is just a different type of product you can sell.

Donations are non-contractual in nature and can be cancelled at any time. They cannot be relied upon as future income. Handouts shouldn't form part of your long term commercial plan.

Sorry but that just isn’t true. They are not handouts they are a unique commercial advantage that only a few types of organisations can rely upon, just in the same way any sales predictions can be relied upon. Donations are a viable revenue stream for sporting clubs and should definitely be in your long term commercial plans.

As we discussed yesterday Mike, I don't agree with you. Donations are something that's nice to have as the cherry on top, **but that tap can very easily be turned off.**

Let's say Harry T is one of our main contributors and we rely on him to keep the lights on. He calls Pascoe and says, i'm not contributing any more money. What's the contingency?

Nonesense. You don’t have just one donator, you build a large group of people who donate regularly.

It isn't nonsense. You can't rely on it.

Then how can any business rely on sales?

Because it's tangible. You're selling a product or a service.

But why should they buy your product or service and not someone elses?

Every year i'll buy tickets, i'll buy endless beers at the game and i'll buy the supporter gear. They are things you can more or less count on from a revenue perspective (outside of Covid). It's something I want and am happy to pay for, as I get something in return.

What are you getting in return for your donation to the foundation?

People donate because they want to support the club in that way. Supporting their club is what they are buying. The club surviving into the future is their return.

Exactly...I made a small donation to the Foundation 12 + months ago.

 

[BZN]

I’d rather donate to the RSPCA

My wife does...but then she supports the Eels :angry:

 

[mike]

Profit itself isn't important.
As you can see on the aesthetically pleasing graphs on that link, the various revenue streams have increased, which has given us the ability to extend spending on football operations (which has famously been thrifty in the past).
It's all a bit simplistic, understandably I suppose, but that's the ultimate goal on that side. Make more money so we can spend more money.

Predominantly due to "other income", which is donations and grants.

These are pretty common within Australian sporting clubs (at least AFL and NRL) aren't they?
Either way, I'm not defending Pascoe (far from it), but just pointing out that 'profit' isn't a realistic proposition for a professional sporting organisation.

The point I’m making is that the reason we are ‘commercially sound’ off the field is due to grants and donations, not great management.

Corporate partnerships have also grown..

Has it? According to the chart the revenue in sponsorships, hospitality and events has stayed more or less stagnant from 2017-2019, whilst margins have improved.

Who improves the margins? Who attracts the donations and grants.

It's a funny thing I think - if Madge is only measured by on-field success (or lack of it), why do you guys drill down into the nitty-gritty of what the CEO is delivering? Either he makes the club self-reliant / financial or he does not. The mechanisms by which he achieves that are far far secondary of concern.

The question is - will a new CEO deliver better on-field performance, and if so, by what mechanisms does that CEO achieve a direct influence on team output?

I drill down onto the nitty gritty of what he's delivering because the more you dig the more you find out that it's all smoke and mirrors.

Let's talk margins, it appears on face value that they've increased but given he conveniently lumps sponsorships, hospitality and events together, the lower margin in 2018 is possibly (and probably) due to a higher proportion of events being held (which is obviously going to have a higher element of cost than pure sponsorship).

Onto the mechanisms, it absolutely does matter how and where the money comes from because **donations can't be considered recurring revenue.** You can broadly forecast out merchandise sales and ticket sales etc, but how can you with any surety rely on donations to get you through? What happens if they stop donating? That means a huge revenue stream dries up and we're screwed. It is the antithesis of self reliance. As CEO it's important for him to create recurring revenue streams, not donations that can be turned off at any point. That is business 101.

Last week you asked me what my experience is dealing with CEO's, to which I responded I deal with them every day due to my work. What's your experience dealing with them?

Absolutely donations can be considered as reoccurring revenue and the revenue stream from donations can be predicted and budged for. A donation is just a different type of product you can sell.

Donations are non-contractual in nature and can be cancelled at any time. They cannot be relied upon as future income. Handouts shouldn't form part of your long term commercial plan.

Sorry but that just isn’t true. They are not handouts they are a unique commercial advantage that only a few types of organisations can rely upon, just in the same way any sales predictions can be relied upon. Donations are a viable revenue stream for sporting clubs and should definitely be in your long term commercial plans.

As we discussed yesterday Mike, I don't agree with you. Donations are something that's nice to have as the cherry on top, **but that tap can very easily be turned off.**

Let's say Harry T is one of our main contributors and we rely on him to keep the lights on. He calls Pascoe and says, i'm not contributing any more money. What's the contingency?

Nonesense. You don’t have just one donator, you build a large group of people who donate regularly.

It isn't nonsense. You can't rely on it.

Then how can any business rely on sales?

Because it's tangible. You're selling a product or a service.

But why should they buy your product or service and not someone elses?

Every year i'll buy tickets, i'll buy endless beers at the game and i'll buy the supporter gear. They are things you can more or less count on from a revenue perspective (outside of Covid). It's something I want and am happy to pay for, as I get something in return.

What are you getting in return for your donation to the foundation?

People donate because they want to support the club in that way. Supporting their club is what they are buying. The club surviving into the future is their return.

Exactly...I made a small donation to the Foundation 12 + months ago.

Your a champion @MAGPIES1963

 

[BZN]

I know of a sponsor who wrote Pascoe an email some two-three months ago. The email discussed amongst other things, the performance of the team and make up of the board.

There were two main points raised in particular

1) Firstly, the sponsor expressed their desire for it to be communicated to the board that the current board arrangement appeared to lack direct accountability to stakeholders. There was no direct link between sponsors/fans and the board - no means of voting right membership in Wests Tigers.

2) The 2nd point raised by the sponsor was the fact that our board didn't have footy experience and pointed to Penrith and the Roosters as an example (Greg Alexander is a board member for Penrith & Luke Ricketson is a board member for the Roosters).

The sponsor was not even given the courtesy of an acknowledgement let alone a reply.

Fair to say, the sponsor wont be back in 2022.

Would you care to tell us who that sponsor is ?

Is that a fair question on a public platform?

Yes @mike I think it is.
If people aren't prepared to back up a statement such as this with proof, imo it's just baloney and scare mongering.
I'll be happy for aubanon to pm me the answer if he feels it's unfair to be disclosed on a public platform.

 

[cochise]

I know of a sponsor who wrote Pascoe an email some two-three months ago. The email discussed amongst other things, the performance of the team and make up of the board.

There were two main points raised in particular

1) Firstly, the sponsor expressed their desire for it to be communicated to the board that the current board arrangement appeared to lack direct accountability to stakeholders. There was no direct link between sponsors/fans and the board - no means of voting right membership in Wests Tigers.

2) The 2nd point raised by the sponsor was the fact that our board didn't have footy experience and pointed to Penrith and the Roosters as an example (Greg Alexander is a board member for Penrith & Luke Ricketson is a board member for the Roosters).

The sponsor was not even given the courtesy of an acknowledgement let alone a reply.

Fair to say, the sponsor wont be back in 2022.

Would you care to tell us who that sponsor is ?

Is that a fair question on a public platform?

Yes @mike I think it is.
If people aren't prepared to back up a statement such as this with proof, imo it's just baloney and scare mongering.
I'll be happy for aubanon to pm me the answer if he feels it's unfair to be disclosed on a public platform.

I can confirm what @Aubanon said is factual.

 

[BZN]

Profit itself isn't important.
As you can see on the aesthetically pleasing graphs on that link, the various revenue streams have increased, which has given us the ability to extend spending on football operations (which has famously been thrifty in the past).
It's all a bit simplistic, understandably I suppose, but that's the ultimate goal on that side. Make more money so we can spend more money.

Predominantly due to "other income", which is donations and grants.

These are pretty common within Australian sporting clubs (at least AFL and NRL) aren't they?
Either way, I'm not defending Pascoe (far from it), but just pointing out that 'profit' isn't a realistic proposition for a professional sporting organisation.

The point I’m making is that the reason we are ‘commercially sound’ off the field is due to grants and donations, not great management.

Corporate partnerships have also grown..

Has it? According to the chart the revenue in sponsorships, hospitality and events has stayed more or less stagnant from 2017-2019, whilst margins have improved.

Who improves the margins? Who attracts the donations and grants.

It's a funny thing I think - if Madge is only measured by on-field success (or lack of it), why do you guys drill down into the nitty-gritty of what the CEO is delivering? Either he makes the club self-reliant / financial or he does not. The mechanisms by which he achieves that are far far secondary of concern.

The question is - will a new CEO deliver better on-field performance, and if so, by what mechanisms does that CEO achieve a direct influence on team output?

I drill down onto the nitty gritty of what he's delivering because the more you dig the more you find out that it's all smoke and mirrors.

Let's talk margins, it appears on face value that they've increased but given he conveniently lumps sponsorships, hospitality and events together, the lower margin in 2018 is possibly (and probably) due to a higher proportion of events being held (which is obviously going to have a higher element of cost than pure sponsorship).

Onto the mechanisms, it absolutely does matter how and where the money comes from because **donations can't be considered recurring revenue.** You can broadly forecast out merchandise sales and ticket sales etc, but how can you with any surety rely on donations to get you through? What happens if they stop donating? That means a huge revenue stream dries up and we're screwed. It is the antithesis of self reliance. As CEO it's important for him to create recurring revenue streams, not donations that can be turned off at any point. That is business 101.

Last week you asked me what my experience is dealing with CEO's, to which I responded I deal with them every day due to my work. What's your experience dealing with them?

Absolutely donations can be considered as reoccurring revenue and the revenue stream from donations can be predicted and budged for. A donation is just a different type of product you can sell.

Donations are non-contractual in nature and can be cancelled at any time. They cannot be relied upon as future income. Handouts shouldn't form part of your long term commercial plan.

Sorry but that just isn’t true. They are not handouts they are a unique commercial advantage that only a few types of organisations can rely upon, just in the same way any sales predictions can be relied upon. Donations are a viable revenue stream for sporting clubs and should definitely be in your long term commercial plans.

As we discussed yesterday Mike, I don't agree with you. Donations are something that's nice to have as the cherry on top, **but that tap can very easily be turned off.**

Let's say Harry T is one of our main contributors and we rely on him to keep the lights on. He calls Pascoe and says, i'm not contributing any more money. What's the contingency?

Nonesense. You don’t have just one donator, you build a large group of people who donate regularly.

It isn't nonsense. You can't rely on it.

Then how can any business rely on sales?

Because it's tangible. You're selling a product or a service.

But why should they buy your product or service and not someone elses?

Every year i'll buy tickets, i'll buy endless beers at the game and i'll buy the supporter gear. They are things you can more or less count on from a revenue perspective (outside of Covid). It's something I want and am happy to pay for, as I get something in return.

What are you getting in return for your donation to the foundation?

People donate because they want to support the club in that way. Supporting their club is what they are buying. The club surviving into the future is their return.

Exactly...I made a small donation to the Foundation 12 + months ago.

Your a champion @MAGPIES1963

Living in a regional area I cant really get to our games, [although I did get down to Lidcombe a few weeks ago
when they played Penrith? and they got thrashed] so my Regional Membership and the donation to the Foundation is my way of supporting the Wests Tigers.

 

[hobbo1]

I’d rather donate to the RSPCA

My wife does...but then she supports the Eels :angry:

My mrs is also a Slimer ?

 

[BZN]

I know of a sponsor who wrote Pascoe an email some two-three months ago. The email discussed amongst other things, the performance of the team and make up of the board.

There were two main points raised in particular

1) Firstly, the sponsor expressed their desire for it to be communicated to the board that the current board arrangement appeared to lack direct accountability to stakeholders. There was no direct link between sponsors/fans and the board - no means of voting right membership in Wests Tigers.

2) The 2nd point raised by the sponsor was the fact that our board didn't have footy experience and pointed to Penrith and the Roosters as an example (Greg Alexander is a board member for Penrith & Luke Ricketson is a board member for the Roosters).

The sponsor was not even given the courtesy of an acknowledgement let alone a reply.

Fair to say, the sponsor wont be back in 2022.

Would you care to tell us who that sponsor is ?

Is that a fair question on a public platform?

Yes @mike I think it is.
If people aren't prepared to back up a statement such as this with proof, imo it's just baloney and scare mongering.
I'll be happy for aubanon to pm me the answer if he feels it's unfair to be disclosed on a public platform.

I can confirm what @Aubanon said is factual.

Coming from you Cochise it would have to be factual.
Maybe we can replace them with a bigger and better sponsor. Like one that is prepared to fit in with the current Wests Tigers way of doing things.
As with the players , if you dont fit in...get out and we'll replace you with someone that does.

 

[BZN]

I’d rather donate to the RSPCA

My wife does...but then she supports the Eels :angry:

My mrs is also a Slimer ?

My mrs is worse than yours hobbo1. When Parra is going bad she supports Manly :angry: :angry:
Edit : Michael O'Connor was her pin up boy back in the days he was playing like Tommy Turbo does now.
Just as a bit of a stir I asked Manly Leagues could they send a promotional type photo of him to her [so she could put it on the back of the dunny door].
To many years ago to remember what they actually sent, but I do remember she wasn't very impressed.

 

[hobbo1]

I’d rather donate to the RSPCA

My wife does...but then she supports the Eels :angry:

My mrs is also a Slimer ?

My mrs is worse than yours hobbo1. When Parra is going bad she supports Manly :angry: :angry:

Kick her out ?

 

[mike]

I’d rather donate to the RSPCA

My wife does...but then she supports the Eels :angry:

My mrs is also a Slimer ?

My mrs is worse than yours hobbo1. When Parra is going bad she supports Manly :angry: :angry:

Oh dear.

 

[cochise]

I know of a sponsor who wrote Pascoe an email some two-three months ago. The email discussed amongst other things, the performance of the team and make up of the board.

There were two main points raised in particular

1) Firstly, the sponsor expressed their desire for it to be communicated to the board that the current board arrangement appeared to lack direct accountability to stakeholders. There was no direct link between sponsors/fans and the board - no means of voting right membership in Wests Tigers.

2) The 2nd point raised by the sponsor was the fact that our board didn't have footy experience and pointed to Penrith and the Roosters as an example (Greg Alexander is a board member for Penrith & Luke Ricketson is a board member for the Roosters).

The sponsor was not even given the courtesy of an acknowledgement let alone a reply.

Fair to say, the sponsor wont be back in 2022.

Would you care to tell us who that sponsor is ?

Is that a fair question on a public platform?

Yes @mike I think it is.
If people aren't prepared to back up a statement such as this with proof, imo it's just baloney and scare mongering.
I'll be happy for aubanon to pm me the answer if he feels it's unfair to be disclosed on a public platform.

I can confirm what @Aubanon said is factual.

Coming from you Cochise it would have to be factual.
Maybe we can replace them with a bigger and better sponsor. Like one that is prepared to fit in with the current Wests Tigers way of doing things.
As with the players , if you dont fit in...get out and we'll replace you with someone that does.

Factual may have been too strong, but I can confirm that @Aubanon has that info from a sponsor.

 

[jirskyr]

Improvement from an extremely low base. If the previous administration was a 2/10 and Pascoe is a 2.5/10, are you happy with that? How about we get someone in that’s an 8/10?

Well now you are shifting goal posts. Either it has improved or it hasn't. It may continue to improve.

 

[tigerbalm]

Improvement from an extremely low base. If the previous administration was a 2/10 and Pascoe is a 2.5/10, are you happy with that? How about we get someone in that’s an 8/10?

Well now you are shifting goal posts. Either it has improved or it hasn't. It may continue to improve.

Yup, next year in his 7th year on the job. That's Pascoe's year to shine.

@avocadoontoast I've changed my opinion on donations. Given the amount of fanatics finding any reason to defend the bloke I think its a legitimate and never ending supply of $$$$$ as long as there are suckers like ^^^^^^ willing to swallow whatever is fed to them.

 

[TigerWest]

Just wondering what everyone thinks the Board and CEO roles are within the club?

I see the board's main roles are to oversee the finances, provide the facilities for the teams to train and play.

I see the CEO's main role is to action the boards requirement's, to drive profit, lead an administration team and get a football team organised to get the players on the park when required?

Both would have sign off on big expense items (including players) and I am sure there are a lot more to both, then what I have described?

They would all have opinions on how/what the teams should be doing, but I would of thought it would be mainly at arms length? e.g. the board telling the coach what drills they should be doing, during training etc would not happen? I.e. they wouldn’t get involved in the day to day running of the footy teams.

But, I'm sure they all have a desire for all the teams (but especially the FG team) to be successful?

 

[cochise]

Just wondering what everyone thinks the Board and CEO roles are within the club?

I see the board's main roles are to oversee the finances, provide the facilities for the teams to train and play.

I see the CEO's main role is to action the boards requirement's, to drive profit, lead an administration team and get a football team organised to get the players on the park when required?

Both would have sign off on big expense items (including players) and I am sure there are a lot more to both, then what I have described?

They would all have opinions on how/what the teams should be doing, but I would of thought it would be mainly at arms length? e.g. the board telling the coach what drills they should be doing, during training etc would not happen? I.e. they wouldn’t get involved in the day to day running of the footy teams.

But, I'm sure they all have a desire for all the teams (but especially the FG team) to be successful?

The boards role is to set the strategic direction of the club. It is the CEOs role to implement that direction.