Chammas Article

[innsaneink]

cochise, you've sidestepped a pretty central point I raised.

You [and others] speak out strongly against Wests Ashfield for making $9 million profit from alcohol and pokies as societal harms, which many of us agree can have real consequences...but you continue to perform at venues such as Wests Ashfield that obviously profit from both.

That contradiction doesn't just dilute the message, it actively undermines it.
If you're genuine about wanting to sever our alliance on these things, shouldn't your own actions reflect that?

It's not about 'attacking people', it's about ensuring the message we carry isn't hypocritical or convenient depending on the setting.

Reform starts with consistency.
Are you prepared to hold your gatherings in venues that don't rely on pokies and alcohol?
Or is your opposition conditional?

What a ridiculous analogy.
Being argumentitive just for the sake of it ie: trolling
Get a life.

 

[BZN]

I couldn’t care less how the owners run their own business… my only concern is with the running of the football club which is thankfully now independent

I don't care about you opinion of my actions, you are in no position to be be critical of my actions so I have no need to justify myself to you.

I can just as easily state that you argue that you get bullied on here but go around targeting and constantly attacking people, if you really wanted to stop bullying on here wouldn't you stop that behaviour or is your opposition conditional?

See how that works mate, you live in a glasshouse so should probably put down your stones.

cochise, it's hard to take the moral high ground seriously when your own events rely on venues serving alcohol and lined with poker machines...the same things you denounce when HBG's name comes up.

If you're truly against them, show it...book a dry, pokie free venue and lead by example.

Let's also be honest about that Wests Tigers Unite complaint you spearheaded.
It wasn't just a protest...it was Imo a destabilisation tactic aimed at the very owners keeping the football club afloat.

And as Liquor & Gaming confirmed it amounted to nothing.
Frivolous in nature, disruptive in intent.

You keep saying it's not about Magpies V Balmain, yet with every move that's made, it seems there is an attempt to undermine the club that delivers 90% of the ownership, funding and grass roots support.

You "don't care about the funding"?
Then you're not serious about performance, facilities or pathways...because they don't run on sentiment.

Want a future without pokies? Great.
But until viable funding alternatives exist, the ones that have done and are currently doing the heavy lifting shouldn't be vilified.

Especially with gestures that amount to little more than noise.

 

[BZN]

True; a much bigger evil!

Jolls and @Tom Shines...if poker machines are a "bigger evil than alcohol" then what do we make of the countless clubs, venues and events you endorse or attend that serve both?

These aren't theoretical concerns...they're part of the same system you rely on when it suits you.

HBG's funding isn't flawless, but it's been the backbone of junior development, community facilities, and yes...Wests Tigers football dept.

If you truly want to reform the system, start by proposing viable alternatives.
Until then, targeting the only stable support structure with outrage and guilt does little but erode the foundations you are standing on.

We don't deny the harm that pokies can cause.
But ignoring alcohols toll ...or treating one vice as permissible because it's packaged differently...isn't principled, it's pick and choose moralism.

Real reform needs consistency, not convenient indignation.

 

[Jolls]

Jolls and @Tom Shines...if poker machines are a "bigger evil than alcohol" then what do we make of the countless clubs, venues and events you endorse or attend that serve both?

These aren't theoretical concerns...they're part of the same system you rely on when it suits you.

HBG's funding isn't flawless, but it's been the backbone of junior development, community facilities, and yes...Wests Tigers football dept.

If you truly want to reform the system, start by proposing viable alternatives.
Until then, targeting the only stable support structure with outrage and guilt does little but erode the foundations you are standing on.

We don't deny the harm that pokies can cause.
But ignoring alcohols toll ...or treating one vice as permissible because it's packaged differently...isn't principled, it's pick and choose moralism.

Real reform needs consistency, not convenient indignation.

BZN you are so far off the mark you are shooting at the wrong target. When I was referring to beer tokens I was using a slang term for dollars - as in what you spend it on - not what is was procured from. My response to Tom was simply that, in my view problem Gambling is a bigger social issue than problem drinking/alcoholism.

So I'm not targeting anything, I'm not indignant about anything and I'm not suffering from pick and choose moralism. I'm not against alcohol or gambling. In fact I drink and I place the odd bet. I have concerns about the significant advertising push for gambling when we know the social impact it has. That is the evil I was referring to.

Drinking and gambling, as with most anything, in moderation is fine by me, and as long as clubs and pubs have a Responsible Service of Alcohol policy and are actively pushing responsible gambling then, in my book, they are taking a responsible approach to activities that are legal.

Individuals are responsible for thier actions; however, I do believe that the approach taken by the gambling agencies in relation to their advertising campaign is irresponsible. Not that it will change unless legislation is introduced.

You have really grabbed the wrong end of the dog here.

 

[cochise]

cochise, it's hard to take the moral high ground seriously when your own events rely on venues serving alcohol and lined with poker machines...the same things you denounce when HBG's name comes up.

If you're truly against them, show it...book a dry, pokie free venue and lead by example.

Let's also be honest about that Wests Tigers Unite complaint you spearheaded.
It wasn't just a protest...it was Imo a destabilisation tactic aimed at the very owners keeping the football club afloat.

And as Liquor & Gaming confirmed it amounted to nothing.
Frivolous in nature, disruptive in intent.

You keep saying it's not about Magpies V Balmain, yet with every move that's made, it seems there is an attempt to undermine the club that delivers 90% of the ownership, funding and grass roots support.

You "don't care about the funding"?
Then you're not serious about performance, facilities or pathways...because they don't run on sentiment.

Want a future without pokies? Great.
But until viable funding alternatives exist, the ones that have done and are currently doing the heavy lifting shouldn't be vilified.

Especially with gestures that amount to little more than noise.

Mate your comprehension skills are severely lacking. You have been told numerous times why I participated in the petition and the review. Our club was being ran into the ground, nothing to do with wests v Balmain, everything to do with getting the best outcome for the Wests Tigers.

You may have noticed there has been no action from us since the independent board was put in place. I was happy with the protection that provides the Wests Tigers.

In relation to ambush event. I'm involved in those to provide opportunities for Wests Tigers fans to get together and get to know each other. These events are extremely hard work and take up too much of my time, but I do them because others enjoy them. Yes we hold a couple of events at Wests Ashfield. That doesn't mean that I can't wish our club didn't rely on poker machines to survive. The world is not black and white mate, no matter how much you wish it was.

I don't why you feel I need to justify myself to you, I don't like you and couldn't care less what you think of me. You think you are getting picked on because you support the Magpies, it has nothing to do with that. I only really ever mention you when you are trying to have a go at me or someone else. You make everything personal instead of discussing the issues and go on the attack.

You will come up with some excuse that you are doing so because you are protecting the Magpies. You do more harm than good to the Magpies brand on here.

 

[innsaneink]

You do more harm than good to the Magpies brand on here.

Bingo