Change our DNA or embrace who we are?

MacDougall

New member
Firstly, I'd like to say that I am glad Taylor and Potter have tried to do this. For the Tigers to ever become a consistent force, Taylor is right and we have to play the type of Rugby League that works year in year out. I am glad they have tried because it has made it apparent just how pointless it is.

Unfortunately in my opinion this isn't going to work, not just on the field, but from a business perspective either. Taylor has been trying to improve the defence for nearly two years and it's actually gone backwards.

I believe Tim Sheens had a vision for the Wests Tigers that was fairly accurate for what we must be as a point of difference to the other Rugby League clubs in the NRL and that was an image of underdog young exuberant talents and he instilled that into the club DNA in an extremely effective way. We are still seeing the evidence of it now. Razzle dazzle is in our DNA right through the grades. Staunch bullying defensive style play is not.

Our young guys grew up wanting to be the next Benji and the next Farah. The next gen will want to be the next Tedesco, Brooks and Moses. It's who we are.

Even in our most successful seasons we still had relatively poor defence. We just happened to be that good in attack those seasons that it didn't matter.

So what you say? Well here's a left of centre viewpoint on why we actually should just embrace who we are.

The Wests Tigers are the newest Sydney NRL club. We have no history notwithstanding Balmain and Wests and continuously calling on our history pre-merger is fractious.

The Wests Tigers are the poorest club in Sydney. We have no money. Making it hard to afford good talent.

The Wests Tigers are the most divided club. Without significant on field success our club is constantly fighting within itself.

The Wests Tigers have the worst facilities.

These four factors make it near on impossible to attract good players to the club. There is one thing that the Tigers are though, and that is fun and entertaining. That is the only thing we can use to attract good talent. When we do manage to drag a decent player to our club that is the only thing they refer to "the great young players, make me feel young, it's exciting to play alongside such freakish talents etc."

It is our only value proposition as a club and Tim Sheens did a serious job instilling it into our culture. Being young and reckless at football is also the only way that our club can compete on the field because we cannot attract seasoned, quality footballers to the club to play moneyball and play like everyone else. We need to be a point of difference to every side every year. We need a ridiculous strategy to play anti-footy every season.

In my opinion we need to just embrace who we are and accentuate the positives. The lesser interchange and the whistle happiness for ruck infringements makes it a distinct possibility to play fast and free but instead we are trying to change who we are as a club.

Hand the reigns to a young, outrageous coaching choice and let's embrace who we are as a club. If we keep trying to change who we are as a club we're eventually going to have no club.
 
The year we one the comp, our defence was actually not bad and improved as the season went on.

Following the arguement above should see us chasing the Walker brothers to coach the side.
 
@Harvey said:
The year we one the comp, our defence was actually not bad and improved as the season went on.

Following the arguement above should see us chasing the Walker brothers to coach the side.

We were ranked 9th in against in 2005\. For a side that won the comp that's insane.

Sorry I counted wrong. I meant 11th.
 
Cant really agree. 3 finals appearances in 15 years is not good enough at the end of the day. We cant be satisfied with that.

Our DNA might be exciting footy, however its also a history of mediocrity.

Tim Sheens in fairness played a style of football towards the strengths of the squad he had.

He led us to 1 Premierships and 3 Top 4 finishes. He also had a number of 9th to 12th finishes.

JT came in and wanted to focus on defence. However i am yet to see his words translate into actions.
 
@MacDougall said:
@Harvey said:
The year we one the comp, our defence was actually not bad and improved as the season went on.

Following the arguement above should see us chasing the Walker brothers to coach the side.

We were ranked 9th in against in 2005\. For a side that won the comp that's insane.

Sorry I counted wrong. I meant 11th.

To be balanced we conceeded 34 points in 4 finals game at an average at 8.5 a game.
 
@Eddie said:
Cant really agree. 3 finals appearances in 15 years is not good enough at the end of the day. We cant be satisfied with that.

Our DNA might be exciting footy, however its also a history of mediocrity.

Tim Sheens in fairness played a style of football towards the strengths of the squad he had.

He led us to 1 Premierships and 3 Top 4 finishes. He also had a number of 9th to 12th finishes.

JT came in and wanted to focus on defence. However i am yet to see his words translate into actions.

That's fair enough as it's just my opinion but we've been trying to play a different style for 4 years and have been woeful. Sheens made the finals 2 out the last 3 years he was here. I remember, it was mediocre for a long time under Sheens … but I reckon that's our destiny. We're never gonna compete style for style with these clubs. If we embrace who we are, we're gonna go through good periods and bad. If we refuse to I fear we'll never get there.
 
I can't cop that. That sounds like giving in.
Wests just have to start running the club as a business.
 
@gallagher said:
I can't cop that. That sounds like giving in.
Wests just have to start running the club as a business.

A good business identifies weakness in the market and tries to exploit it. Especially ones that are cash strapped.

Unless we get a massive cash injection so we can actually buy our way there. In which case fine. That's the other way businesses work. Money creates money.
 
I agree to a point. Fun and entertaining is what the OP describes it as.
Being a local club, promoting juniors at a high rate despite their ability over recruiting established players is the only thing we have going for us, it's what were pushing as it makes the fans all warm and fuzzy to have someone from Nth Ryde or Eaglevale/ St Andrews s in the top team… However to the players it's just a other small step up from matt's ball 20s... We are like a local club in a national comp
If we had relegation in place in NRL...... Well......
 
How do we turn our side into a side that competes with Melbourne, Brisbane et al at the game they play without the money to buy players who are trained to play that style? This club doesn't produce players who play that style so while we have a junior development policy we're going to keep producing attacking talents.

Sure we can try to change our DNA. That is a long term process at the junior level.

Personally I have no gripe with being the team that wins matches with flair and excitement but we haven't really fully embraced that since Tedesco, Brooks and Moses came into first grade and they still manage to win games off the back of it … when they manage to win games. How might it look if we just throw all our eggs into that basket? We don't know yet.
 
I think the club has quite a dilema here. There are a number of blokes who are fragile defenders at best. You would need to drop them to improve the defence, but what options do we have a replacements? Unfortunately our squad and the DNA is still the result of the previous board and the long term contracts they signed players to (especially with options in their favour). For any coach to be able to change the playing style of the team, they need to be able to sign players that suit that style, and get rid of those that don't. Out last 2 coaches have been hamstrung through having to build a side around a style of football that they are not suited to, or apparently able to play
 
If we're truly trying to change our DNA and our culture why isn't Michael Chee-Kam playing centre instead of Naiqama? That would be the first change I'd make if I was trying to plug defensive gaps while not entirely nullifying our attack. Chee-Kam is gonna be more useful outside Moses than Naiqama.

I appreciate that Taylor has a vision for the club, and a strategy … but unfortunately I think he's found it impossible to make it work.
 
I don't see why exciting footy and dogged defence are mutually exclusive. When we have the ball in hand we should attack with all the potency available to us.

When we defend, we should do with all the determination and structures as the top teams. This is obviously not there yet but it should be developed but not at the expense of our attacking flair which is clearly our strength.
 
We're still the same team as when Benji was here, nothing's changed.
Razzle dazzle, flick pass, chip kick, no look, hail Mary, hot and cold, rocks or diamonds Tigers.
Can concede as quickly as we can score, capable of beating anybody on our day if things stick, very rarely play for 80mins.
 
@TIGER said:
We're still the same team as when Benji was here, nothing's changed.
Razzle dazzle, flick pass, chip kick, no look, hail Mary, hot and cold, rocks or diamonds Tigers.
Can concede as quickly as we can score, capable of beating anybody on our day if things stick, very rarely play for 80mins.

But weren't we hum drum 5 hit ups and a bomb for 18 months or so?
 
@innsaneink said:
@TIGER said:
We're still the same team as when Benji was here, nothing's changed.
Razzle dazzle, flick pass, chip kick, no look, hail Mary, hot and cold, rocks or diamonds Tigers.
Can concede as quickly as we can score, capable of beating anybody on our day if things stick, very rarely play for 80mins.

But weren't we hum drum 5 hit ups and a bomb for 18 months or so?

That didn't work either , where to from now ??
 
@MacDougall said:
@gallagher said:
I can't cop that. That sounds like giving in.
Wests just have to start running the club as a business.

A good business identifies weakness in the market and tries to exploit it. Especially ones that are cash strapped.

So the gap in the market is to promote the fact that we're rubbish?
Not for me.

JT is talking the talk and is bang on with his philosophy IMO. It's just that he can't actually coach it into the playing squad effectively.
 
@ricksen said:
@MacDougall said:
@gallagher said:
I can't cop that. That sounds like giving in.
Wests just have to start running the club as a business.

A good business identifies weakness in the market and tries to exploit it. Especially ones that are cash strapped.

So the gap in the market is to promote the fact that we're rubbish?
Not for me.

JT is talking the talk and is bang on with his philosophy IMO. It's just that he can't actually coach it into the playing squad effectively.

He never will , it's not in his DNA !
 
@ricksen said:
@MacDougall said:
@gallagher said:
I can't cop that. That sounds like giving in.
Wests just have to start running the club as a business.

A good business identifies weakness in the market and tries to exploit it. Especially ones that are cash strapped.

So the gap in the market is to promote the fact that we're rubbish?
Not for me.

JT is talking the talk and is bang on with his philosophy IMO. It's just that he can't actually coach it into the playing squad effectively.

Don't put words in my mouth.
 
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