Cleary u got what u deserved.

[innsaneink]

I am always a fan of the faster fitter stronger magical mysterious Pre-season…

This one will be disrupted by the World Cup...sure we won't have any in the Australian side..you would think the MatPack and ET will make the Kiwis Squad ...McQueen the England side if he hasn't had neck surgery which means he will spend pre-season in rehab..As well as our other Pacific Island players Suli, Marsters, Sue representing their respective Nations..Twal is a cert for Lebanon...

Rowdy and Brooks can wooop it up with Ivan...

The coach will be here tho….he wasnt last year
Hes mentioned you cannot turn around an off seasons work mid season, or 3 rounds in. Nothing magic or mystery about it

 

[jirskyr]

This thread is kind of pointless really. There's nothing anyone can do - Cleary will be the coach next year. And nobody knows how the roster overhaul will pan out, can't really see a point arguing about it right now.

You'll be a decent way to being proven wrong or right this time next year.

 

[sideline_eye]

I don't share the view that, by this time next season, we will be sitting high on the table. You can't fully rebuild a roster in one season and what will happen is that Ivan will make strategic buys next season for 2019 and so on for 2020.

We do need to improve drastically on the field next year in order to attract top line players for the following seasons but it will take a couple of years for us to be competitive with the big boys and patience is required. The players that we target need to see a team and a coach that they want to play with and I believe they will want to come here as time goes on. We are still some time away from threatening to win a title, though.

I'm really looking forward to next season with a new look team playing with different structures and I think we could make the eight or go very close to it but my expectations are no higher than that.

 

[earl]

I also can't see it all turning around next season. I just want to see some improvement next year.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Yesterday you offered the comment that is seems JT wasn't the problem. Now you write that Cleary was always going to be treading water this year. Can you please provide an explanation?

Simple. I was referring to the playing roster yesterday, not Cleary….

Even so, losing by one point to a team in the 8 who on paper should have given us a lapping is an indication the roster is performing as well as Cleary being a good manager of people. I still don't understand your initial comment.

The problem lies in our roster, it has been a perpetual problem that has haunted us for the most part of a decade through poor cap management. Not JTs fault and not Ivan's fault.. Hell, Potter probably wasn't actually as bad as anyone thought because he had a rough looking team to deal with also. Therefore the problem likely wasn't JT like many believed. I remember quite a few on here saying a new coach would fix everything, but of course that takes time and wasn't the main cause of our problems.

Cleary seems to be doing a decent job, and next year we'll finally be able to see a team free of cap constraints.

Some want to rewrite history to suit their agenda. Was Taylor the messiah?, no, but was he only appointed in the shadow of the preseason commencing at a club lumbered with an already bulging salary cap, to be a coach with virtually no say in further recruitment?, damn right he was.

What's more, he had to put up with being undermined by a captain that got rid of his predecessor/s. After a decision was made to remove the problem, the incoming CEO replacing the one that had perpetuated our already diabolical cap position, reneged on the backing of the coach and probably caused another another year of bloodletting, not to mention a poorer bargaining position in ridding the club of a then further declined and aged player.

Does anyone on here really not think that Taylor was placed in an untenable position by being told to apologise to a captain that was undermining him in front of the squad, or that it was anything other than a ridiculous decision?

Cleary might not be coaching at one of the rich glamour clubs, but any incoming club coach would be envious of the scope available to him in his first full season at WT.

 

[sheer64]

Cleary negotiated his position before putting pen to paper, Taylor jumped at the opportunity to be back as a first grade coach and did not look at what Potter went through or did not care.

 

[jadtiger]

Simple. I was referring to the playing roster yesterday, not Cleary….

Even so, losing by one point to a team in the 8 who on paper should have given us a lapping is an indication the roster is performing as well as Cleary being a good manager of people. I still don't understand your initial comment.

The problem lies in our roster, it has been a perpetual problem that has haunted us for the most part of a decade through poor cap management. Not JTs fault and not Ivan's fault.. Hell, Potter probably wasn't actually as bad as anyone thought because he had a rough looking team to deal with also. Therefore the problem likely wasn't JT like many believed. I remember quite a few on here saying a new coach would fix everything, but of course that takes time and wasn't the main cause of our problems.

Cleary seems to be doing a decent job, and next year we'll finally be able to see a team free of cap constraints.

Some want to rewrite history to suit their agenda. Was Taylor the messiah?, no, but was he only appointed in the shadow of the preseason commencing at a club lumbered with an already bulging salary cap, to be a coach with virtually no say in further recruitment?, damn right he was.

What's more, he had to put up with being undermined by a captain that got rid of his predecessor/s. After a decision was made to remove the problem, the incoming CEO replacing the one that had perpetuated our already diabolical cap position, reneged on the backing of the coach and probably caused another another year of bloodletting, not to mention a poorer bargaining position in ridding the club of a then further declined and aged player.

Does anyone on here really not think that Taylor was placed in an untenable position by being told to apologise to a captain that was undermining him in front of the squad, or that it was anything other than a ridiculous decision?

Cleary might not be coaching at one of the rich glamour clubs, but any incoming club coach would be envious of the scope available to him in his first full season at WT.

You talk about rewriting history and then come up with a pile of speculation and agenda.For the record we needed to move on Robbie and Taylor for the toxic environment that was at the club but it should have happened in 2016.2017 is a disaster because JT was kept as coach a position which was totally beyond his capabilities

 

[Telltails]

Even so, losing by one point to a team in the 8 who on paper should have given us a lapping is an indication the roster is performing as well as Cleary being a good manager of people. I still don't understand your initial comment.

The problem lies in our roster, it has been a perpetual problem that has haunted us for the most part of a decade through poor cap management. Not JTs fault and not Ivan's fault.. Hell, Potter probably wasn't actually as bad as anyone thought because he had a rough looking team to deal with also. Therefore the problem likely wasn't JT like many believed. I remember quite a few on here saying a new coach would fix everything, but of course that takes time and wasn't the main cause of our problems.

Cleary seems to be doing a decent job, and next year we'll finally be able to see a team free of cap constraints.

Some want to rewrite history to suit their agenda. Was Taylor the messiah?, no, but was he only appointed in the shadow of the preseason commencing at a club lumbered with an already bulging salary cap, to be a coach with virtually no say in further recruitment?, damn right he was.

What's more, he had to put up with being undermined by a captain that got rid of his predecessor/s. After a decision was made to remove the problem, the incoming CEO replacing the one that had perpetuated our already diabolical cap position, reneged on the backing of the coach and probably caused another another year of bloodletting, not to mention a poorer bargaining position in ridding the club of a then further declined and aged player.

Does anyone on here really not think that Taylor was placed in an untenable position by being told to apologise to a captain that was undermining him in front of the squad, or that it was anything other than a ridiculous decision?

Cleary might not be coaching at one of the rich glamour clubs, but any incoming club coach would be envious of the scope available to him in his first full season at WT.

You talk about rewriting history and then come up with a pile of speculation and agenda.For the record we needed to move on Robbie and Taylor for the toxic environment that was at the club but it should have happened in 2016.2017 is a disaster because JT was kept as coach a position which was totally beyond his capabilities

So it isnt all Teddy and Woods fault?

 

[timmings01]

Simple. I was referring to the playing roster yesterday, not Cleary….

Even so, losing by one point to a team in the 8 who on paper should have given us a lapping is an indication the roster is performing as well as Cleary being a good manager of people. I still don't understand your initial comment.

The problem lies in our roster, it has been a perpetual problem that has haunted us for the most part of a decade through poor cap management. Not JTs fault and not Ivan's fault.. Hell, Potter probably wasn't actually as bad as anyone thought because he had a rough looking team to deal with also. Therefore the problem likely wasn't JT like many believed. I remember quite a few on here saying a new coach would fix everything, but of course that takes time and wasn't the main cause of our problems.

Cleary seems to be doing a decent job, and next year we'll finally be able to see a team free of cap constraints.

Some want to rewrite history to suit their agenda. Was Taylor the messiah?, no, but was he only appointed in the shadow of the preseason commencing at a club lumbered with an already bulging salary cap, to be a coach with virtually no say in further recruitment?, damn right he was.

What's more, he had to put up with being undermined by a captain that got rid of his predecessor/s. After a decision was made to remove the problem, the incoming CEO replacing the one that had perpetuated our already diabolical cap position, reneged on the backing of the coach and probably caused another another year of bloodletting, not to mention a poorer bargaining position in ridding the club of a then further declined and aged player.

Does anyone on here really not think that Taylor was placed in an untenable position by being told to apologise to a captain that was undermining him in front of the squad, or that it was anything other than a ridiculous decision?

Cleary might not be coaching at one of the rich glamour clubs, but any incoming club coach would be envious of the scope available to him in his first full season at WT.

Oh go away with all your common sense, you're spoiling the outrage. :wink:

 

[timmings01]

As hard as it may be for some to accept, it is possible to support the current coach whilst conceding that the former faced a multitude of problems during his time at the club. I suspect that if the team fails to do well in the coming years all the Taylor haters will become Cleary haters.

 

[earl]

The problem lies in our roster, it has been a perpetual problem that has haunted us for the most part of a decade through poor cap management. Not JTs fault and not Ivan's fault.. Hell, Potter probably wasn't actually as bad as anyone thought because he had a rough looking team to deal with also. Therefore the problem likely wasn't JT like many believed. I remember quite a few on here saying a new coach would fix everything, but of course that takes time and wasn't the main cause of our problems.

Cleary seems to be doing a decent job, and next year we'll finally be able to see a team free of cap constraints.

Some want to rewrite history to suit their agenda. Was Taylor the messiah?, no, but was he only appointed in the shadow of the preseason commencing at a club lumbered with an already bulging salary cap, to be a coach with virtually no say in further recruitment?, damn right he was.

What's more, he had to put up with being undermined by a captain that got rid of his predecessor/s. After a decision was made to remove the problem, the incoming CEO replacing the one that had perpetuated our already diabolical cap position, reneged on the backing of the coach and probably caused another another year of bloodletting, not to mention a poorer bargaining position in ridding the club of a then further declined and aged player.

Does anyone on here really not think that Taylor was placed in an untenable position by being told to apologise to a captain that was undermining him in front of the squad, or that it was anything other than a ridiculous decision?

Cleary might not be coaching at one of the rich glamour clubs, but any incoming club coach would be envious of the scope available to him in his first full season at WT.

You talk about rewriting history and then come up with a pile of speculation and agenda.For the record we needed to move on Robbie and Taylor for the toxic environment that was at the club but it should have happened in 2016.2017 is a disaster because JT was kept as coach a position which was totally beyond his capabilities

So it isnt all Teddy and Woods fault?

A lot of it is these guys fault. Most marquee players stick with their current clubs especially if they are being offered good money. We just developed marquee players who have no loyalty at all. It's extremely unusual but what do you do about it.

Taylor was a pretty bad coach but I don't blame him for the lack of loyalty shown by our star players this year.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

And the research for that sweeping statement about Marquee players came from ??????

 

[innsaneink]

Do you get picked on at home GCT?
Your so aggro & antagonistic…. Relax champ

 

[Pawsandclaws]

As hard as it may be for some to accept, it is possible to support the current coach whilst conceding that the former faced a multitude of problems during his time at the club. I suspect that if the team fails to do well in the coming years all the Taylor haters will become Cleary haters.

A rear guard action from the Taylor apologists? I thought this was all dead and buried when JT slipped out the backdoor and down the stairs. This is a new era and let's not get reopen divisions within the supporters on this forum.

 

[Telltails]

Some want to rewrite history to suit their agenda. Was Taylor the messiah?, no, but was he only appointed in the shadow of the preseason commencing at a club lumbered with an already bulging salary cap, to be a coach with virtually no say in further recruitment?, damn right he was.

What's more, he had to put up with being undermined by a captain that got rid of his predecessor/s. After a decision was made to remove the problem, the incoming CEO replacing the one that had perpetuated our already diabolical cap position, reneged on the backing of the coach and probably caused another another year of bloodletting, not to mention a poorer bargaining position in ridding the club of a then further declined and aged player.

Does anyone on here really not think that Taylor was placed in an untenable position by being told to apologise to a captain that was undermining him in front of the squad, or that it was anything other than a ridiculous decision?

Cleary might not be coaching at one of the rich glamour clubs, but any incoming club coach would be envious of the scope available to him in his first full season at WT.

You talk about rewriting history and then come up with a pile of speculation and agenda.For the record we needed to move on Robbie and Taylor for the toxic environment that was at the club but it should have happened in 2016.2017 is a disaster because JT was kept as coach a position which was totally beyond his capabilities

So it isnt all Teddy and Woods fault?

A lot of it is these guys fault. Most marquee players stick with their current clubs especially if they are being offered good money. We just developed marquee players who have no loyalty at all. It's extremely unusual but what do you do about it.

Taylor was a pretty bad coach but I don't blame him for the lack of loyalty shown by our star players this year.

No Earl - their decisions definitely had an impact - but all the other stuff that happened leading up to that and may have very well influenced their decision - nup.

 

[andrew 474]

Cleary come to this club knowing he would have to deal with the team he has now for this year only , he is not stupid that's why he took 3 and a half years on , this year he would try to get us to the 8 no doubt , but we can see so far he has given 2 new players from other clubs Reserve grade a crack and also one of our own from reserve grade , so Far Matt and Alex have gone pretty well as has Tui these 3 players are getting a real good taste of NRL then they will link with around 6 to 8 new players who will be playing for first grade spots in the Pre Season , this alone will be exciting for all the team and hopefully make them bond and get strong as a unit , I don't think we would be up near the 8 if JT was still here , we just don't have the team and back up all our grade are shot , I give Cleary next year to get us away from the bottom and competative and then 2019 we should be very close to top 6 to 8 , we have had some good games this year under Ivan , Manly game and Parra game we should have won both , both those teams played average we should have nailed them , some,times teams make the 8 and when you look back they beat the team who come first by a point in round 9 and that opposition on the day were crap , a off day , but that win got them into the 8 , it happens , we will just have to sit back hang in there and we will then see a list of new Players join us a list of players who have been taped on the shoulder and our pre season will be big I think with plenty of news , video , etc to get us supporters all excited ,

 

[colmcd]

Cleary negotiated his position before putting pen to paper, Taylor jumped at the opportunity to be back as a first grade coach and did not look at what Potter went through or did not care.

Potter I actually feel sorry for. He was settling in and Robbie got caught by the media. Yes Robbie should have known better, but Gordon Tallis needs to be booed off every tigers game. Seriously that guy is a knob and was the reason for the whole Potter/Farah drama.

Had Potter not had those dramas we would have made the 8 under him. We were coming 9th.

Potter could handle people and I think he is boosting "Mary"'s success in St George. I was willing to give Taylor a chance, but I have no idea why he would do a light preseason here (surely they don't at easts) OR why he would roll over on the big 4 contract negotiations. He could not handle the job. The board would back him except Taylor was clearly failing at the job.

Cleary remains. He is probably marginally better then Potter and definitely got Penrith on the right track. Penrith was lucky and got on track faster then I expected. WT may take 2 seasons.

Cleary is going to struggle, he is a builder and that takes time. This year he has some decisions like "do I put hopeless guy 1 or hopeless guy 2".

 

[TigerSJ]

For what it's worth I thought Potter was a good coach albeit a little soft and I had less respect for Taylor, especially in the way he handled himself and some of the decisions he made. I found his style very uninspiring and I wonder if he would have been able to attract quality players given the opportunity Cleary has had.
In the end what makes a good coach??
Firstly he has to have the respect of the whole squad of players. He has to be able to identify quality players and make good decisions about the roster and selections. Sure, he has to know his stuff and hopefully have assembled a good team of assistant coaches, but ultimately IMO winning NRL games comes down to how much does each player and the group as a whole really want to win? How far are they willing to dig down and fight for themselves and each other.
As long as you have a decent roster of quality NRL level players, winning is about attitude and effort. So, a good coach is a guy who has developed a culture that can bring this out in every player in his team week after week for the duration of a season. A great coach can take guys who have never shown that spirit or desire and blend them into a team of guys that will fight till they drop and then some.
I think Cleary is probably closer to that coach than either of Potter or Taylor.

 

[timmings01]

As hard as it may be for some to accept, it is possible to support the current coach whilst conceding that the former faced a multitude of problems during his time at the club. I suspect that if the team fails to do well in the coming years all the Taylor haters will become Cleary haters.

A rear guard action from the Taylor apologists? I thought this was all dead and buried when JT slipped out the backdoor and down the stairs. This is a new era and let's not get reopen divisions within the supporters on this forum.

Oh ok if you say so. lol :unamused:

 

[earl]

And the research for that sweeping statement about Marquee players came from ??????

Statistically accurate representations of most marquee players. Prove me wrong. It's a pretty accurate statement.

We had a dud coach in JT but do you really think he was the reason these guys left ? I don't think it's fair to blame JT for their attitude.