Common denominator

[alistair]

As fans, we have to all accept that these long-term issues can no longer be placed at the feet of the coach or the players group.

Cleary has the Panthers looking good this year, after narrowly missing out last year. He obviously knows how to do his job.

The list of players who leave our club and then go on to be key members of successful teams/win rep honours is gut wrenching. Tedesco, Addo-Carr, Koriobete, Moses, Woods, Fifita, Sironen, Nathan Brown... there are many, many more of course, most recently Momo and of course Benji, who all of a sudden looks fantatic again.

For me, the abject lack of proper management can be summed up by one thing. **No home ground.**

How can you build a home without a house?

 

[Bones]

If you want to get and idea of why we are so poor have a look at the replay of the Cowboys last try. Take note of Mikaele’s effort and that is us in a nutshell.

 

[the_third]

I just think there is not enough quality players in the competition and there are a few clubs that dominate them.
Our team is made up of players who individually can slot into other teams and go ok ( Huth and Momorovski) - but unless you have got those key 4/ 5 players like South's Melbourne Penrith Roosters - who with their top squads - are clearly the best teams wouldn't matter how well you run off the field.
Any talk of expansion just seems like a money grab for players to get paid far more than they deserve with no accountability. They are like revolving doors in a system that makes it possible to wear a jersey for one club this week and then be playing for someone else the next and for many their performance on the field reflects that attitude. The disconnect between how fans attach themselves to clubs, and how players represent clubs is getting wider
When you have got a club like Brisbane with all the resources - struggling to find players in key positions to get them playing to a standard they are use to puts things in perspective.

Yep Andrew Johns has been advocating that for a while.

With the influence of NBA/Premier League and obviously social media, a lot of kids are going away from Rugby League. What got me to League was watching the footy on ch9 as a kid but as many here would attest- kids barely watch TV these days, all the entertainment comes online now.

NRL should look at cutting to 12 teams in the near future IMO.


if you cut it to 12 teams you lose 25% of the media rights. That's why they expand, more games = more money etc.

we will get more teams and then 2 conferences, then a pro bowl/all stars rep match.

I like the idea of two conferences.

same I reckon it's a good one.

 

[earl]

People who think blokes like Mbye, Reynolds and Packer were our worse signings should look at the signings of Brooks and Nofo on big money, long term contracts. Just as as bad- if not worse.
Maybe being from our juniors had something to do with it but the OP is correct... they are the common denominators and should get the chop.

I disagree completely. Nofo and Brooks have provided a lot more value than those guys.

Brooks is on supposedly 500k. That figure is not that bad.
Nofo couldn't be on more than 500k. The length of the contract was wrong and he will have shockers like he did yesterday but he will also have some good games.


it was $900k this morning, so who knows.

He has somehow had a pay rise since the start of his contract. Surely it's the media making up figures. If not that is not acceptable and I wouldn't want to pile in on Brooks on that decision.

 

[earl]

We haven't made finals since 2011, surely we have to look at what has been the constant since that time. Brooks and Nofoaluma are the main culprits.

At what point do you move these guys on and say they don't deserve to wear the jumper.

Nofa is an absolutely massive liability defensively. Multiple tries his fault again yesterday.

He can't read the play, can't leap and EVERY center inside him has looked completely lost on D for years and years now.

You can't have a winger actually cost you games / tries for so long. He is too old now to change, and showed no signs of learning. Extending him....four years...was absolutely ludicrous. Unfathomable.

It's the contract term right. We have to play him and accept him for who he is. He gives you that game that he just had every so often. As soon as he if up against a big winger who can jump and he is targeted we are in trouble.

He is a slow winger who defensively isn't very good.

I reckon he can also give us 150m per game and great finishing as well but yep the contract length wasn't good.

 

[earl]

Cleary has the Panthers looking good this year, after narrowly missing out last year. He obviously knows how to do his job.

It's not that simple. Cleary appears to somehow get his teams playing to their ability. He also made terrible recruitment and retention decisions that killed this club.

I reckon our squad looks better but Madge has never been able to get them to outperform let alone perform to their ability.

 

[yoyoyoyo]

Pascoe and the board are def below par compared to other clubs. I dare say even the Chairman based on his public comments.

I know for a fact that Addo Carr did not come here because he was offended by the club not wanting to trade Tommy Talau for him - I was told personally by his manager - this was after Pascoe told a mate of mine that JAC was 100% signed - I think the club got complacent , thought JAC would come regardless, made some stupid public comments that Tommy wouldnt be traded (which could have been left out of public eye), and then JAC was put in a corner where he is perceived to be less of a player than TT and he bailed on us.

As i have said on other posts - i have meet Pascoe and other staff members on several occassions when the big four were being negotiated and the way they handled it was bad.

Not getting anything out of the matterson trade like a "next time a player wants to come to us you have to release him" - we could've got stefano a year in advance was pretty poor negotiating too.

The only saving grace for Pascoe is getting the COE done - which is a pretty big thing.

But also reading the comments on Wayne Bennet - I would have sacrificed a year with a reserve grade coach to get him here - regardless of what people say he brings players with him which is what we need for an undesirable club. In saying that I think Pascoe did a good job getting Madge.

But all in all he's a below average performer.

 

[dazza65]

Pascoe and the board are def below par compared to other clubs. I dare say even the Chairman based on his public comments.

I know for a fact that Addo Carr did not come here because he was offended by the club not wanting to trade Tommy Talau for him - I was told personally by his manager - this was after Pascoe told a mate of mine that JAC was 100% signed - I think the club got complacent , thought JAC would come regardless, made some stupid public comments that Tommy wouldnt be traded (which could have been left out of public eye), and then JAC was put in a corner where he is perceived to be less of a player than TT and he bailed on us.

As i have said on other posts - i have meet Pascoe and other staff members on several occassions when the big four were being negotiated and the way they handled it was bad.

Not getting anything out of the matterson trade like a "next time a player wants to come to us you have to release him" - we could've got stefano a year in advance was pretty poor negotiating too.

The only saving grace for Pascoe is getting the COE done - which is a pretty big thing.

But also reading the comments on Wayne Bennet - I would have sacrificed a year with a reserve grade coach to get him here - regardless of what people say he brings players with him which is what we need for an undesirable club. In saying that I think Pascoe did a good job getting Madge.

But all in all he's a below average performer.

Not doubting you @trippa101 but if this is true re JAC and TT ...that is wrist slitingly ludicrous......

 

[Asu Kepaoa's #1 Fan]

We haven't made finals since 2011, surely we have to look at what has been the constant since that time. Brooks and Nofoaluma are the main culprits.

I can understand being critical of a halfback over lack of success but to blame a winger is, well, clutching at straws.

The common denominator may not be what we have, it may be what we're missing - a strong forward pack, rep players, talented spine, better shapes, speed, mongrel, aggression, etc.

I dunno man , him and JTJ were beyond diabolical today . Some of the tries they allowed were ? effort stuff . He’s 28 mate.
Also brooks was one of our best yesterday so anyone blaming him for that loss is doing , what I’ve always said they were doing , just looking for someone to blame / scapegoat .

That try Nofo let in where he was standing in goal and didn't jump was park footy stuff. Not even park footy level, it's the level of a player who is new to rugby league and doesn't know it's better to compete and drop the ball than stand there and let your opposition jump all over you. It's something that happens to you once and then you never do it again. He's 27 years old and has played 144 games in first grade. Can't believe he did that.

 

[jirskyr]

I know for a fact that Addo Carr did not come here because he was offended by the club not wanting to trade Tommy Talau for him - I was told personally by his manager - this was after Pascoe told a mate of mine that JAC was 100% signed - I think the club got complacent , thought JAC would come regardless, made some stupid public comments that Tommy wouldnt be traded (which could have been left out of public eye), and then JAC was put in a corner where he is perceived to be less of a player than TT and he bailed on us.

I'm just as concerned about precious potential signings who worry about who the club would or would not trade. Sometimes I wonder if JAC still remembers he's a winger.

 

[yoyoyoyo]

@dazza65 - was told to me by his agent. Again I think the tigers thought Josh would come regardless because they had a Heads of Agreement signed with him (which is non-binding btw) and got complacent thinking they didnt have to give the storm anything (which they didn't) but again public comments by our management put people off.

This to me shows a lack of real commercial judgement.

I invest in property development projects and also government infrastructure projects and I know (like most people on here in other professions too) that a deal is not done until it is signed. (and in NRL that still doesn't mean much if players are p*ssed off). So why would you offend JAC by saying those things... OR trading TT for JAC if it meant getting the deal progressed from a non-binding Heads of Agreement to a binding contract.

Shows complacency. And it's easy to judge from the sidelines i get it, but this is not a one-off. They publicly put Mitchell Moses in the same position when they said that Aaron Woods and Teddy were the priorities and pulled his contract and he said see you later. If they wanted to do that - just dont make a public comment when you have zero leverage. Just dumb. And then put the deadline on Teddy.

We have been outmanouvered by Parra, Penrith, Player managers, Star players - time and time again.

Winning starts in the back office by having the best negotiators and we dont have it. Why do you think the Bulldogs have recruited gun players with a questionable coach? Because Arthur Laundy is a well respected businessman. Lee Happ is not respected. You can see it by the way he makes public comments, and you can see it in the clothes he wears at games (Trench Coats!!!) he has a massive ego and rubs people the wrong way. I have heard that too by two journalists (who I won't name) and another player agent.

But Lee puts money into the club so you cant fault him either.

It's a tough one.

Think we have to stay the course with Madge - if we can snag Adam Reynolds or a big name player - get rid of Brooks, Mbye etc. We might be able to recruit some other players. We have good juniors who we have bought but they wont stay long if we dont start winning. Jake and Daine will be picked up by others for sure.

 

[tig_prmz]

I just think there is not enough quality players in the competition and there are a few clubs that dominate them.
Our team is made up of players who individually can slot into other teams and go ok ( Huth and Momorovski) - but unless you have got those key 4/ 5 players like South's Melbourne Penrith Roosters - who with their top squads - are clearly the best teams wouldn't matter how well you run off the field.
Any talk of expansion just seems like a money grab for players to get paid far more than they deserve with no accountability. They are like revolving doors in a system that makes it possible to wear a jersey for one club this week and then be playing for someone else the next and for many their performance on the field reflects that attitude. The disconnect between how fans attach themselves to clubs, and how players represent clubs is getting wider
When you have got a club like Brisbane with all the resources - struggling to find players in key positions to get them playing to a standard they are use to puts things in perspective.

Yep Andrew Johns has been advocating that for a while.

With the influence of NBA/Premier League and obviously social media, a lot of kids are going away from Rugby League. What got me to League was watching the footy on ch9 as a kid but as many here would attest- kids barely watch TV these days, all the entertainment comes online now.

NRL should look at cutting to 12 teams in the near future IMO.


if you cut it to 12 teams you lose 25% of the media rights. That's why they expand, more games = more money etc.

we will get more teams and then 2 conferences, then a pro bowl/all stars rep match.

That gives a good reason to expand the international game.

Something like 30% of Australians are born in Asia or India but we barely see these communities represented at any level.

 

[Devon Head]

We haven't made finals since 2011, surely we have to look at what has been the constant since that time. Brooks and Nofoaluma are the main culprits.

I can understand being critical of a halfback over lack of success but to blame a winger is, well, clutching at straws.

The common denominator may not be what we have, it may be what we're missing - a strong forward pack, rep players, talented spine, better shapes, speed, mongrel, aggression, etc.

Cant blame a winger? Most of Cows tries was scored as a direct result of up an in defence by either the centre, wing or both and getting beaten for pace on the outside. How often do we have tries scored against us out wide? How often are our wingers beaten by the overlap?

 

[Deleted member 3518]

People who think blokes like Mbye, Reynolds and Packer were our worse signings should look at the signings of Brooks and Nofo on big money, long term contracts. Just as as bad- if not worse.
Maybe being from our juniors had something to do with it but the OP is correct... they are the common denominators and should get the chop.

I disagree completely. Nofo and Brooks have provided a lot more value than those guys.

Brooks is on supposedly 500k. That figure is not that bad.
Nofo couldn't be on more than 500k. The length of the contract was wrong and he will have shockers like he did yesterday but he will also have some good games.

Ah , there’s reasons for that . The only way that can ever happen is weight for age . They are generally way more passive by nature , and more focused on expanding the mind , as a general rule.
None of thier existing popular sports are remotely as intense as RL.
I think you’re forgetting the brutality of RL even at an U7s level . They’ll watch it , plenty of mates growing up , Of Asian decent were as into it as the rest of us , but everyone balked at idea of playing for real . Plus many are on the smaller side of body shapes .
I just don’t think it’s as simple as “here’s a pool of people , let’s get them “ .

It’s not fun being 20 kgs wringing wet , and having to go at a boy who’s 35-50. And social constructs within those communities , see it really , for what is . A tough sport played by bigger kids/ men , with a high risk of head injury .
I love the sport , but much like RU and Gridiron , it can only be played by a certain mentality / body shape . You can really get hurt out there , if your not of the aggressive nature .
I’ve seen it first hand .
That’s not to say though that people of my generation having kids now , arnt raising them to want to be apart of it . But there’s like I said , a lot of cultural , physical , philosophical, boundaries that need to be broken down . The optics alone a re usually a deal breaker . It’s mum who you have to convince .
Edit ; I accidentally replied to your email sorry . It’s not applicable to what your saying .

 

[voice_of_reason]

@jai_donaldson said in [Common denominator](/post/1335006)
Cant blame a winger? Most of Cows tries was scored as a direct result of up an in defence by either the centre, wing or both and getting beaten for pace on the outside. How often do we have tries scored against us out wide? How often are our wingers beaten by the overlap?

You realise the overlap happens inside the winger, yes? Nofo had a shocker yesterday but he had zero support from JTJ who I thought was equally shocking.

With AD racing up and Garner sitting out the first 30 minutes we had major issues on the right.

We were tactically poor and our effort was non-existent. The second half showed we have the capacity to play, I just don't know why we don't turn up.

 

[BAGNF05]

There are some common denominators off the field too. I'm a few weeks off joining the sack Madge chorus, but I'm seriously questioning how the club is run. Look at Nofo's extension.

Pascoe apologists need not respond, I know he doesn't head the football department. He is however that person's boss, as was the case for all the other failed football departments he has overseen. The "not his job" argument is based on the false premise that football is not our core business, and that he should be pardoned due to financial achievements. We are not a bank, nor is he CFO, COO, CMO - he oversees the whole shebang.

I'm also over having a fan and sponsor as chair. Lee is a big mouth self promoter, surely some magpies old boys should have been presented the #7, not a fan/ chair/ sponsor. Has already embarrassed himself and the brand by talking publicly on numerous issues that he should but out of.

Amen brother, embarrassing.

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Pascoe and the board are def below par compared to other clubs. I dare say even the Chairman based on his public comments.

I know for a fact that Addo Carr did not come here because he was offended by the club not wanting to trade Tommy Talau for him - I was told personally by his manager - this was after Pascoe told a mate of mine that JAC was 100% signed - I think the club got complacent , thought JAC would come regardless, made some stupid public comments that Tommy wouldnt be traded (which could have been left out of public eye), and then JAC was put in a corner where he is perceived to be less of a player than TT and he bailed on us.

People on this forum are strong on the loyalty to the club, so why should a player want to move to another club? Especially if the club is in the most totalitarian State (lockdowns, curfews, masks, 800+ dead etc. )! :thinking_face:
There are much better options in Sydney!
How about the WT ask a player before anything is discussed?

 

[Blake]

We haven't made finals since 2011, surely we have to look at what has been the constant since that time. Brooks and Nofoaluma are the main culprits.

At what point do you move these guys on and say they don't deserve to wear the jumper.

How long have you been a fan, are you a common denominator?

Correlation does not equal causation.
https://www.fastcompany.com/3030529/hilarious-graphs-prove-that-correlation-isnt-causation

 

[Tiger5150]

We haven't made finals since 2011, surely we have to look at what has been the constant since that time. Brooks and Nofoaluma are the main culprits.

At what point do you move these guys on and say they don't deserve to wear the jumper.

How long have you been a fan, are you a common denominator?

Correlation does not equal causation.
https://www.fastcompany.com/3030529/hilarious-graphs-prove-that-correlation-isnt-causation

Hitler owned a dog.........do YOU own a dog?

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

There are some common denominators off the field too. I'm a few weeks off joining the sack Madge chorus, but I'm seriously questioning how the club is run. Look at Nofo's extension.

Pascoe apologists need not respond, I know he doesn't head the football department. He is however that person's boss, as was the case for all the other failed football departments he has overseen. The "not his job" argument is based on the false premise that football is not our core business, and that he should be pardoned due to financial achievements. We are not a bank, nor is he CFO, COO, CMO - he oversees the whole shebang.

I'm also over having a fan and sponsor as chair. Lee is a big mouth self promoter, surely some magpies old boys should have been presented the #7, not a fan/ chair/ sponsor. Has already embarrassed himself and the brand by talking publicly on numerous issues that he should but out of.

Amen brother, embarrassing.

Agree i think Lee needs to shut up in the media a bit