Confirmed: Matterson released from Wests Tigers.

[WT2K]

Week one of our offseason was interesting to say the least

 

[BZN]

G'day @Tcat: contracts are broken every day in all walks of life. Contracts can be enforced of course, but in a lot of cases, a 'compromise' would have been better for both parties.
The marriage cert. is a very common one to be broken.
When we get married we promise our husband/wife certain things, and those things are genuinely felt, and said at the time.
X amount of time later though, the wheels start to fall off due to the fact we realise we made an error of judgement re our partner in that we just aren't/weren't suited. But we go to counselling and work really hard to make things right 'because we signed a contract'. Things improve for a while eg... Matterson dancing at Farah's send-off. But the wheels start to fall off again due to the fact you/Matterson has worked so bloody hard to honour his contract, plus... going along with what his partner/Madge tells him he must do, you/Matterson is now simply mentally exhausted.
Then we need to remember in Matterson/Madges case...it was an arranged marriage and sometimes these work but many times they simply don't, no matter how hard we/Matterson tries.
If Matterson wants out because he can't work with Madge after attending counselling, Wests Tigers have to let him go, as Madge is not going to change his ways... is he?...cause he's the boss and I doubt he thinks he needs to be counselled...do you?
Don't forget, 'Madge' has already been booted out of one contract/marriage.

 

[BZN]

G'day @Geo: R E P O R T E D L Y!!! that's a big word sometimes :fa-smile-o:

 

[diedpretty]

I'm somewhat pessimistic about this situation but hopefully it can be resolved for the benefit of everyone.

If Ryan isn't enjoying the hard work that will reflect poorly on him when looking for a new club - they won't know whether he will be willing to work hard for them.

If he wants to go to Ivan, arrange a swap for Viliame Kikau - as much as I like Matterson as a player I would willingly make that swap.

Kikau wouldn't last 5 minutes under Madge's regimen.

 

[diedpretty]

@gallagher And we're still picking up the pieces.

We so need a break

No, need better management. The fool that has stuffed our cap, brought Cleary here and signed off on those contracts is still in charge.

Yes, I hate to knock anyone in their job...but Pascoe has been a disaster.

1. Brought in Cleary "his mate"
2. Allowed "his trusted mate" power over everything...sat back whilst Cleary offered guys like Packer, with a history of injuries and a crim record (thus no chance of a English SL exit) four years for 2 million.
Sat back and smiled whilst Cleary handed out "life changing" mega deals to Ben and Josh.
Never got wind of his "mate" about to betray us.
Naivety.........
3. Messed up the cap costing us around 600 000...i.e. two players.
Incompetence...................................

Pascoe has been a disaster and is the reason we are in this mess. He may be a nice bloke, but he is way, way out of his depth.

That he is still in his job after what has happened defies belief. In any decent club he'd be gone.


And read made a comment re the the profit the club made was mainly from west’s ashfield anyway.

That's true - but Wests Ashfield was giving those grants when we were running at a loss so there has been an improvement.

 

[balmain boy]

I for one think that a trade window should open up for a 2 week period during the season and for the off-season. It happens in almost every other sport in the world. If a player wants to sign for another club then they have to negotiate a deal with their current club for the trade to take place. Compensation in the form of player/s or money. If the relationship is untenable or the club simply want to dump their salary then yes a release could be granted.

This would help put an end to the whole players breaking contracts business, at least in the sense that players and agents would understand that campaigning for a move isn't enough, they need the other club to give up assets in order for the deal to go through. In some cases, they may deem it's not worth it as the asking price is too high. Otherwise the club losing their player gets a replacement or prospect to boost their own talent pool.

The current method just leaves the current club in a massive weak spot which really isn't fair. Likewise if a club is trying to get rid of a overpaid player they may need to package the flop with a top prospect in order to make it appealing for the other club.

Seriously, what reason is there to not have trade windows?

 

[BZN]

G'day @balmain-boy: sounds great, mate.

 

[diedpretty]

God I hope it wasn't Robbie and Benji sending him to the other dressing room that's got him so peeved.

 

[Jimmy]

@diedpretty when was this😂😂

 

[diedpretty]

@diedpretty when was this😂😂

Well that's what happened to Fifita ( according to Fifita ) - the two dressing room theory - much like the second shooter theory. One room for "The Boys" and the other for the riff raff.

 

[jirskyr]

Ryan Matterson 2019.

1) Became a regular, starting first grader
2) Doubled his 2018 salary
3) 18th Man in SOO.
4) Statistically had a great year.

Is unhappy as he didn't get what he signed up for with Iv and Kelly.

Id love to know what he was promised by Ivan that is above and beyond what he achieved under Madge.. Fair Dinkum....

Yeah, grind him. 350K is not so bad to leave in reserves, as you note.

 

[jirskyr]

This is what happens when you continually remove or lose coaches .....happy footballers become unhappy footballers when the style of coaching and training changes

I can understand Matterson's view totally , he needs to be able to show off his ball skills and running game to make the next step ....because of our deficiencies he needs to play a total power game ...which isn't going to benefit his career long term

It this really a fair comment and do you (or we) have any idea what it is that Matterson supposedly wants. Do we have any idea if the club has discussed this with him ? What should we do about this ? Are all the players unhappy ? If not why not ? Is Matterson just another spoiled brat ?

Yeah I say bollocks to that. Footballers want XYZ, well tough, you ain't the coach. Matto was determined to be a halfback at Parra, so Brad Arthur threw him down to Ron Massey cup.

There are a handful, literally, of players whose opinion counts as much as the coach's does - Smith, Lockyer, Johns, Thurston. Blokes who don't really need much coaching.

Ryan Matterson - please. Anyone who comes to Tigers and doesn't "get what they think they signed up for" has simply failed to do their due diligence. Yes the coach changed but unfortunately in rugby league this happens all the time, esp at under-performing clubs.

In fact the average tenure of all current NRL coaches is 4 years!! I.e. equivalent to one decent player contract. Take out Craig Bellamy and it drops to 3.13 years. The longest current tenure outside of Bellamy is Trent Robinson with 7 seasons, after which four coaches have 6 seasons. 2019 had 7 coaches in their first year at their current club.

So any player who goes to a team expecting a guaranteed coaching strategy obviously hasn't been paying attention to the NRL the past 10 years.

 

[jirskyr]

Madge is not popular for whatever reason. The Souths leadership group all sung the praises of Seibold the very moment he started and loved Bennet. None of them speak highly of Madge, except when being polite.

Uh no

>Rabbitohs enforcer Sam Burgess said he was stunned to learn there were rumblings Souths coach Michael Maguire was on the outer at the club, **describing Maguire as a key reason behind his decision to return to Redfern** after his stint with England's Rugby World Cup team.
"There was speculation?" said Burgess. "I've not seen it. 'Madge' [Maguire] is an amazing coach and his record speaks for itself – look at what he's done for South Sydney.
"I have a good friendship with Madge, we have a good understanding, he's an influential guy and is an absolute joy to play for.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/sam-burgess-smashes-chatter-about-south-sydney-rabbitohs-coach-michael-maguire-20160309-gnekrf.html

>Bunnies’ backrower Jason Clark also defended Maguire, whose no-nonsense style has not always agreed with everyone, including Chris McQueen who will run out for the Gold Coast against Souths on Sunday.
>
>“If anything, ‘Madge’ has helped me with my head space’’,’’ Clark said.
>
>“Through my whole career I’ve been in and out of first grade, going back to reserve grade is never great, but Madge has been there to help me physically and mentally.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/teams/rabbitohs/sam-burgess-defends-the-coaching-methods-of-michael-maguire/news-story/690f51362df46c03e836536b149fd0fe

>“I have been at this club 10 years now and I am just that proud of everyone who has got me here.
>
>“Especially Madge ... when he first told me (he wanted Sutton as captain) I probably wasn’t too keen on it but he really drove me to lead the boys.
>
>“And I am thanking him for that.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/south-sydney-rabbitohs/before-michael-maguire-arrived-at-souths-john-sutton-was-rated-the-most-overrated-player-in-the-nrl-ng-bf7161a83785bbb520391f83aaf3d7ed

 

[jirskyr]

When are we going to hear anything from our spineless management? This type of thing can cause friction within the playing group…
Our new coach and highest profile signing already at loggerheads.
This club is dumb.

What are you talking about, Madge was on telly just on Saturday night. What do you expect the rest of the club to say? This is a non-story from Tigers' perspective. Matto wants XYZ, fine, but he's under contract from our "spineless management" point of view nothing has changed and there's nothing to say.

You would make a horrendous media manager if you made an official club statement about every story in the paper, big or small.

 

[hsvjones]

Madge is a Coach we need - Very disciplined and does not accept below par standards.. The players that don't like it says to me they want success the easy way or given it like Teddy has at the Roosters.
Look at our Defence alone from last year to this year and the fitness of the team is the main reason for this.. Look at the team he come here to and the players missing and he still had us very close to finals. I really think once he gets to sign a few hard nose players that suit him we will be very competitive.

Said it before and will say again - If Matterson wants out we need to let his manager know it will only be by a trade and we get something for it.. FULL STOP - The Fact Matterson has not come out and shut this down only confirms this also.

 

[jirskyr]

Bigger issue is that when players reach their potential they all choose to leave Wests Tigers.
We need to sort this out too many players for it to be a coincidence.

Over-exaggeration. Some players leave. Also, if Tigers are a club trying to make smart purchases to up-skill, the downside of that is they become expensive footballers on the other side.

E.g. Marty Taupau, didn't hear any news that he specifically wanted to leave Wests, only that he got a massive offer from Manly that we couldn't match. Same with Blake Austin getting a good deal at Raiders.

The other rationale is very obvious - some clubs win a lot and it's an easy decision to go to or stay with those clubs. Why do those clubs win a lot? Mostly to do with funding and power-brokers - they can afford to be stable and they can take care of their players in "different" ways. I can understand players want to play for successful teams, but if all players do that it just adds inequality to the league.

Even the new cap on football departments comes not with fines, but with tax on over-spending. So you can over-spend to your heart's content if you are willing to pay the extra tax.

I personally think one of the biggest reasons for losing footballers is instability, so you need to pick and stick with your coach. This Matto issue is a big challenge on Maguire's early tenure, but the club must go 100% with coach, otherwise it's just more turnover, more player power and more turmoil. Let us not forget that the last big player-power shifts at Tigers were involved in ending the first-grade careers of Sheens, JT and Potter.

 

[jirskyr]

@Tiger_Steve no laughing mate I have studied body language and I might say very good at it , once he touched his face that was it .. a major problem . Just like how people talk it is just an open book ..can not get away with what our body expresses you just have to know how to read it .

Please please save us all from this nonsense. I mean, it's the internet I get it, but body language reading on football news, seriously.

Can we get Athena Starwoman in to read "the vibes".

 

[TigerSJ]

How disappointing is this latest bit of rubbish. I am starting to agree with the recent commentators on this - It's about time we stamped our foot down and got tougher as a club. I've heard a bit said by Madge and also Benji, about accepting mediocrity for too long - it's time to act on this now! I can understand that an affordable upgrade should be offered to Matterson, but if he doesn't accept it then bad luck - Ryan, meet Brett Hodgson and I hope you get on better with him!

 

[jirskyr]

Can’t blame Pascoe for player signings. It’s agenda driven rubbish if you do. That’s on the coach. And if you want to blame him for hiring Cleary, then again, that’s ridiculous. As if he could have predicted that outcome. None of us could.

Fair enough, but at some point you have to say people just make bad decisions and hire bad people when almost everything they do goes wrong.

You all do realise that Penrith head-hunted the guy we hired?

Not saying that's worked out well for them first year, but Penrith have a lot of cash, so either Cleary is an amazingly poisonous snake, or he actually does have some coaching cred.

I agree with GNR that it's ridiculous to put the Cleary issue on Pascoe. Cleary was a good appointment, easily the best-credentials we had since Sheens, and lucky for us, post-Cleary we got Madge.

But Cleary was a good appointment at the time and nobody is going to foresee a multi-million dollar raid on our coach in his second season. But again, if Pascoe was a moron for signing Cleary, why did another club come in with $5M to take that moron off our hands? Clubs don't head-hunt your staff or players if those staff/players are no good.

I suppose we need to also go after the blokes who oversaw Tedesco in the juniors, because Tedesco was head-hunted too and left the club with a massive hole at fullback and the loss of the next promising junior.

Lastly Pascoe was not by his lonesome, the Board ratified the selection. It's the same board that ratified Madge, so by all means, point the finger at everyone in management, but then get rid of all of them. Oh no, not Marina, she was the good one they say, she should have stayed, but be rid of the others. Too simple thinking for such a complex situation.

I suppose people also forget that Tim Sheens was a speculatory signing after a bad run at North Queensland, from which he resigned and took time off for stress leave. Turned out to be our best-ever coach. Huh.

 

[jirskyr]

@hobbo1 Aloiai and Thompson definitely had other offers. I guess Liddle did as well.

Madge turned down Manly and I believe Broncos turned down Madge. Hardly desperate there either. Of any season, 2019 had plenty of coaching movement and therefore opportunities.