Coronavirus Outbreak

[Cultured_Bogan]

Penrith nursing home likely to get worse again.

I expect 10-15 deaths in there at least!

That's probably a low end estimate.

Definitely, I said 30 to my wife earlier! It is a large site and if it also gets into the retirement Village associated with it then all bets are off and it could end up being anything

There's about 100 residents in 3 buildings in the aged care section. Second building has been known to have had an infected worker.

 

[cochise]

Penrith nursing home likely to get worse again.

I expect 10-15 deaths in there at least!

That's probably a low end estimate.

Definitely, I said 30 to my wife earlier! It is a large site and if it also gets into the retirement Village associated with it then all bets are off and it could end up being anything

There's about 100 residents in 3 buildings in the aged care section. Second building has been known to have had an infected worker.

Yeah, I know the place well

 

[Geo]

Getting a bit tired of reading the diatribe for or against The Don in this thread..yes it somewhat is linked to the Virus but more relevant to politics..leave this one for the Virus itself...Politics >>>that way..then if you don't care for the politics of it all you dont have too..if you do you can still read it all there

Thanks

 

[cochise]

Getting a bit tired of reading the diatribe for or against The Don in this thread..yes it somewhat is linked to the Virus but more relevant to politics..leave this one for the Virus itself...Politics >>>that way..then if you don't care for the politics of it all you dont have too..if you do you can still read it all there

Thanks

I don't care for politics at all, never ever been in the politics thread, but his handling of this is directly is directly related to this issue and the number of deaths caused. I have never once referred to him outside of his dealing of covid 19.

 

[Geo]

Getting a bit tired of reading the diatribe for or against The Don in this thread..yes it somewhat is linked to the Virus but more relevant to politics..leave this one for the Virus itself...Politics >>>that way..then if you don't care for the politics of it all you dont have too..if you do you can still read it all there

Thanks

I don't care for politics at all, never ever been in the politics thread, but his handling of this is directly is directly related to this issue and the number of deaths caused. I have never once referred to him outside of his dealing of covid 19.

Yes but you quoted posts that did..so ..friendly fire unfortunately..they are not deleted just moved..

 

[cochise]

Getting a bit tired of reading the diatribe for or against The Don in this thread..yes it somewhat is linked to the Virus but more relevant to politics..leave this one for the Virus itself...Politics >>>that way..then if you don't care for the politics of it all you dont have too..if you do you can still read it all there

Thanks

I don't care for politics at all, never ever been in the politics thread, but his handling of this is directly is directly related to this issue and the number of deaths caused. I have never once referred to him outside of his dealing of covid 19.

Yes but you quoted posts that did..so ..friendly fire unfortunately..they are not deleted just moved..

Fair enough mate, I wasn't having a go, just stating my opinion. They may as well be deleted to me as I have no interest in the politics thread! 😛

 

[twentyforty]

Sweden has had approximately 13,000 cases, 1400 deaths but only 550 recovered. More people dying than recovering? Why?

Is it Denmark or Sweden which still allows citizens to socialise?

Also, I am extremely concerned about the UK. It's figures do not include the elderly who have died in aged care. Since it was reported 2000 facilities have reported deaths, the UK problem and figures are greatly misleading. Boris has correctly been called out on acting too slowly to close borders.


I think it was only the tunnel? Macron kept it open too. It was WHO who was slow to take action based on their knowledge from visits to Wuhan and their misguided confidence in China’s success in containing the spread. 27th Feb, Scott Morrison told us we were dealing with a pandemic. 11th March, WHO declared a pandemic.

Didn't want to add the following to my previous post, but found the following answer both interesting and alarming in relation to the UK border response on 12 March.

.
.
.

Asked why the United Kingdom hadn’t imposed a ban on flights from China last month, the country’s chief scientific officer Patrick Vallance said today: “We looked at it. Even if we stopped all flights and had a 95% reduction, the effect on the delay of the epidemic was only a day or two. And realistically we could get at best a 50% reduction. This has been born out, with the way the world works you cannot stop that unless everyone decides to do this at once.”

I’m just so pleased we are fortunate enough in Australia to have a thinking government in office at this time.
1st February, Australia stops inbound from China. China expresses disappointment, while the WHO is highly critical of the Morrison governments call.
The other mob would have been in lockstep with the WHO and Of course the result would have been unthinkable.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

https://news.usni.org/2020/04/17/navy-cdc-to-study-covid-19-outbreak-on-carrier-theodore-roosevelt#comment-4880339729

It appears the US Navy. may. reinstate Capt Crozier on. Theodore Roosevelt. It seems. he. communicated his. concerns through. the correct. chain of. command. Let's. hope the big stick gets underway soon.

 

[Tiger5150]

https://news.usni.org/2020/04/17/navy-cdc-to-study-covid-19-outbreak-on-carrier-theodore-roosevelt#comment-4880339729

It appears the US Navy. may. reinstate Capt Crozier on. Theodore Roosevelt. It seems. he. communicated his. concerns through. the correct. chain of. command. Let's. hope the big stick gets underway soon.

That was a massive missed opportunity. If they had kept all of the crew on that shit, set up medical requirements on the ship, they could have learnt so much about the virus from that situation. Effectively an isolated laboratory with the population of a small city.

They screwed Guam

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Hearing a lot of people say this will turn them off of cruising. Not me. Once the pandemic is over, and the world goes back to normal, cruising won’t be any more dangerous than its always been.

 

[cochise]

Hearing a lot of people say this will turn them off of cruising. Not me. Once the pandemic is over, and the world goes back to normal, cruising won’t be any more dangerous than its always been.

Agreed, I'll be heading off on a cruise when I get a chance!

 

[Hangonaminute]

Anyone watching this Global Citizen concert on TV?
The irony of having Bush's wife talk about "saving lives" didn't escape me.

 

[cochise]

Anyone watching this Global Citizen concert on TV?
The irony of having Bush's wife talk about "saving lives" didn't escape me.

Yes, I have watched it since 4am lol. A little too US centric for me, but in saying that Eddie Vedder was amazing!

 

[diedpretty]

Sweden has had approximately 13,000 cases, 1400 deaths but only 550 recovered. More people dying than recovering? Why?

Is it Denmark or Sweden which still allows citizens to socialise?

Also, I am extremely concerned about the UK. It's figures do not include the elderly who have died in aged care. Since it was reported 2000 facilities have reported deaths, the UK problem and figures are greatly misleading. Boris has correctly been called out on acting too slowly to close borders.


I think it was only the tunnel? Macron kept it open too. It was WHO who was slow to take action based on their knowledge from visits to Wuhan and their misguided confidence in China’s success in containing the spread. 27th Feb, Scott Morrison told us we were dealing with a pandemic. 11th March, WHO declared a pandemic.

Didn't want to add the following to my previous post, but found the following answer both interesting and alarming in relation to the UK border response on 12 March.

.
.
.

Asked why the United Kingdom hadn’t imposed a ban on flights from China last month, the country’s chief scientific officer Patrick Vallance said today: “We looked at it. Even if we stopped all flights and had a 95% reduction, the effect on the delay of the epidemic was only a day or two. And realistically we could get at best a 50% reduction. This has been born out, with the way the world works you cannot stop that unless everyone decides to do this at once.”


I’m just so pleased we are fortunate enough in Australia to have a thinking government in office at this time.
1st February, Australia stops inbound from China. China expresses disappointment, while the WHO is highly critical of the Morrison governments call.
The other mob would have been in lockstep with the WHO and Of course the result would have been unthinkable.

What a load of rubbish.

 

[happy_tiger]

Hearing a lot of people say this will turn them off of cruising. Not me. Once the pandemic is over, and the world goes back to normal, cruising won’t be any more dangerous than its always been.

Agreed, I'll be heading off on a cruise when I get a chance!

Probably be some pretty good deals early on to get people back on board

 

[Tiger5150]

Just a quick apology to Geo and everyone for the number of political messages Ive either made or responded to in this thread. As Ive acknowledged a few times, politics is best left in the Politics thread, but obviously crosses over into this crisis at time.

Thanks to Geo for his work in cleaning this thread up and apologies for my role in cluttering it up.

 

[cochise]

Just a quick apology to Geo and everyone for the number of political messages Ive either made or responded to in this thread. As Ive acknowledged a few times, politics is best left in the Politics thread, but obviously crosses over into this crisis at time.

Thanks to Geo for his work in cleaning this thread up and apologies for my role in cluttering it up.

It is hard because most of the political stuff in here is related directly to the response to covid 19. I'm not really interested in the rubbish debate that goes on in the politics thread but am very interested in our countries and leaders are reacting to and dealing with this crisis!

 

[mike]

Hearing a lot of people say this will turn them off of cruising. Not me. Once the pandemic is over, and the world goes back to normal, cruising won’t be any more dangerous than its always been.

Agreed, I'll be heading off on a cruise when I get a chance!

Likewise. We have three that will be cancelled, Including an upcoming birthday cruise, but will re-book once everything is sorted.

 

[happy_tiger]

Hearing a lot of people say this will turn them off of cruising. Not me. Once the pandemic is over, and the world goes back to normal, cruising won’t be any more dangerous than its always been.

Agreed, I'll be heading off on a cruise when I get a chance!

Likewise. We have three that will be cancelled, Including an upcoming birthday cruise, but will re-book once everything is sorted.

Need someone to look after your luggage .....mate....buddy...pal

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Sweden has had approximately 13,000 cases, 1400 deaths but only 550 recovered. More people dying than recovering? Why?

Is it Denmark or Sweden which still allows citizens to socialise?

Also, I am extremely concerned about the UK. It's figures do not include the elderly who have died in aged care. Since it was reported 2000 facilities have reported deaths, the UK problem and figures are greatly misleading. Boris has correctly been called out on acting too slowly to close borders.


I think it was only the tunnel? Macron kept it open too. It was WHO who was slow to take action based on their knowledge from visits to Wuhan and their misguided confidence in China’s success in containing the spread. 27th Feb, Scott Morrison told us we were dealing with a pandemic. 11th March, WHO declared a pandemic.

Didn't want to add the following to my previous post, but found the following answer both interesting and alarming in relation to the UK border response on 12 March.

.
.
.

Asked why the United Kingdom hadn’t imposed a ban on flights from China last month, the country’s chief scientific officer Patrick Vallance said today: “We looked at it. Even if we stopped all flights and had a 95% reduction, the effect on the delay of the epidemic was only a day or two. And realistically we could get at best a 50% reduction. This has been born out, with the way the world works you cannot stop that unless everyone decides to do this at once.”


I’m just so pleased we are fortunate enough in Australia to have a thinking government in office at this time.
1st February, Australia stops inbound from China. China expresses disappointment, while the WHO is highly critical of the Morrison governments call.
The other mob would have been in lockstep with the WHO and Of course the result would have been unthinkable.

With all due respect, I think that’s a statement more based on your political leanings than fact. Ultimately, we will never know how “the other mob” would have managed the situation. They may have followed a similar route or been more or less aggressive. If we look at both history and liberal values, the libs have opted for smaller government influence and economically freer markets.

My own political leanings lean towards more of “centrist shrug” (little respect or interest in either sides narratives) but I do believe ScoMo got a bit lucky. Yes he shut down the border with China but seemed to be following his own lock step with the US as was again evidenced with Europe. The evidence says that the US and the UK caused our largest Overseas infeactions. Yet we didn’t shut our borders down to either of these key allies. My own opinion is that this was because of largely political and diplomatic reasons.

Secondly, he probably should have been more forceful in ensuring returned visitors self isolated and used some tracking techniques to ensure compliance. Again, I think this speaks to a small government agenda. Even today, we see the harder right factions protesting their independence against the tracking app although some labor powerbrokers also want measures to ensure confidentiality.

In this Covid-19 environment, what we are (rightly) seeing is that governments are moving away from political rhetoric and faction politics for the good of the people. I sincerely hope that while the disease is a terrible human and economic tragedy, that there are lessons on what governments should focus on.

I havent voted Labor since Keating, but I dont think that Albanese would have done any different (better or worse) than Scomo, because really at the end of the day they are acting on advice of government experts (The Australia political public serviceis a rock solid monolith that serves both parties) and they would be getting the same advice and probably making the same actions. I voted Lib but I wouldnt be particularly assigning praise although they havent done a bad job.

Where there would be probably a big difference is in the stimulus packages and payments and economic plans. We can never make a judgement really because we dont know what Labor would have done but of course they have been historically big spenders. Personally I have been very surprised at the generosity of the payments from the Libs in the spending of the stimulus packages. To me it seems too much, but we will never know really if itwas right or wrong because we dont know what would happen without it. Rudd spent 4.5% of GDP in 2008 to override the GFC and that took us 12 years to (almost) pay off. Morrison has committted more than 9% of GDP. Scary stuff.

I think Australians ARE lucky to have this political system. Its a LONG way from good, let alone perfect but whilst there are bitter divisions the difference between Lib & Lab is in gradations, not massive ideological chasms. In the US the polarity is massive and toxic. IMO both sides are responsible and its poisonous to society where of course most people are somewhere in the middle.

I think what we are seeing now that the dust is settling a little on the trauma of the virus, is that politics being politics, both sides are trying to make political gain from it. This will be the next wave of the virus. If you broadly distill the beliefs of each side of the political spectrum into Progressives (Larger Govt, Increased involvement of the State in Society, Universal Basic Income, reduction of power of large corporations) and conservatives (Smaller Govt, reduced involvement of the State in Society, Increased personal liberties) it is very clear to see that the situation with the crisis strongly benefits the Left. I think we will eventually see the Left of politics embracing the change and resisting the re-establishment of things as they were and you will see the right increasingly vocal and forceful in trying to get it re-established.

A Govt spending money especially on infrastructure which increases the productive capacity of the nation and therefore income, is actually a very good policy setting. Therefore running a budget deficit in this scenario is not bad at all despite what these conservative types attempt to spin.


I would agree with this in part, but the current stimulus doesnt include any infrastructure spending, because it takes too long to filter through (hopefully the crisis doesnt last long enough for large scale infrastructure projects to be created) and people cant get out to work anyway. It shouldnt even be called a ***stimulus*** package because it doesnt stimulate the economy because the economies doors are locked shut. We cant spend the money freely in the economy anyway. It should be termed a ***survival*** package.

The second part of your point is where I have the largest issue and yes it seems to be an ideological divide. I agree that a budget surplus isnt the be all and end all, particularly if the deficit is spent on infrastructure, but it also has to be considered that every budget deficit is increased debt. It comes from somewhere, we are not just printing more money, we need foreign nations to buy our debt (China usually) and we can not continually increase the debt because it degrades our currency and ultimately the Governments capacity to sell debt. At some stage you have to pay the piper. We havent had a surplus since Howard.

Ironic really conservatives with their ideology being forced by necessity to adopt interventionist policies to sustain the economy.

Lets be thankful we have had enough years of fiscal responsibility in order to provide the capacity to do what we are doing now. Time will tell if we can afford it.

Expenditure on IT infrastructure to facilitate smarter ways of working, increased access to online tertiary and TAFE courses, investments in. health infrastructure and even paying subsidies to underutilised or temporarily displaced workers are imo investments in the productive capacity of the nation.

We know education is the most important investment a Govt can make in its productive capacity. It is.no coincidence Labor provided all kids with the opportunity for free tertiary and TAFE education.

In terms. of the economy, history records that the conservatives have a worse record in terms of debt in Govt and this current Govt has significantly increased net. debt over the previous Labor Govt. Only two Australian Treasurers have received. international recognition for management of the economy and both are Labor MPs.