Coronavirus Outbreak

[pawsandclaws1]

@Pawsandclaws are you still saying NSW Health made no mistakes with the Ruby Princess?

Yes. The officer exposed failed to enforce the isolation of some passengers onboard while the ship was in international waters. I can understand how a NSW Public Servant could be held accountable.

You were notably absent when the irregularities over the ship's.log, MARS form and response to the Ports Authority by the Ruby Princess were exposed.

I'll back NSW Health. It is called loyalty, look up its meaning.

Not absent at all, I have all along said the ships behaviour was probably criminal, I have also stated that multiple agencies, including NSW Health, missed opportunities to stop the ship from disembarking.

Why would I need to lookup the meaning of loyalty, who am I being disloyal to?

Disembarking? The ship has to dock first and then disembark. That is achieved by the completion and submission of a MARS form. That is a Federal form and more will be heard about that issue.

Our NSW Health staff deserve our loyalty. It is NSW Health staff who front up to tend to patients with COVID19. They put their personal safety at risk every shift. I back the professionalism of NSW Health and those of other NSW agencies in this matter.

NSW Health staff have always had my backing, maybe you should read some of my early posts on this subject, in fact my wife is a NSW Health staff member. Though there have been mistakes made in NSW Health in regard to this issue, by not acknowledging mistake you miss the opportunity to improve practices that led to the mistakes being made. From the testimony of the NSW Health worker who testified today, it would appear that they were extremely understaffed and overworked. How is acknowledging that mistake and seeking improvements to be made being disloyal? Putting your head in the sand is what leads to this mistakes being repeated.

Now I will repeat, NSW Health are not the sole reason this happened, in fact I believe their role was a minor part in a serious of mistakes and outright dishonesty that led to that ship being allowed to disembark. We need to find the reasons for all the mistakes that led to this because if anyone of those mistakes didn't happen then the results wouldn't have been anywhere near as severe.


NSW Health was placed in a no win position. I advised the decision about passengers was only as good as the information provided to the four doctors who made the decision. We know an incomplete log was provided and the decision by the doctors was based on that log. We know also info provided to NSW Ports Authority was not accurate at 8..03pm on the 18th.

Yes we do, no one here has argued that, what has been argued is whether NSW Health had enough information to make a better decision and I believe there was, especially after seeing the testimony from yesterday. I 100% believe when the findings are released criticism of NSW Health will be included, will you then acknowledge that they along with the ship, company and other agencies made critical errors that could have prevented this from happening?

We"ve had 3 days of hearings and you want to put the hatchet in. There is also a concurrent criminal investigation ongoing.

A log which was submitted incomplete, information provided to NSW Port Authority which is at best inaccurate and a form required to dock which is incomplete provides enough anecdotal evidence to suggest the outcome will be far more serious than criticism.

And let's not be afraid to sheet a lot of the blame towards the passengers, many of whom were elderly, who decided to go on a cruise during a pandemic. This is especially so after what happened on Diamond Princess and Grand Princess. Carnival Cruises also in operating a cruise as well during the pandemic.

Finally, the arrangements by Scomo to ban cruise ships from docking, reverse that decision so 4 cruise ships can dock, make bespokr arrangements on the run and put Border Force in charge of docking and disembarkation, then have Outtram squeal and advise it is not our responsibility .

I have never argued any of that?

Carnival agent confirms she sought permission from Border Force Officer to disembark two sick passengers off Ruby Princess on afternoon of 18th. ABF Commissioner previously advised Force had no role.

Carnival agent confirmed Dr advised both patients are potentially infectious by telephone and for NSW Ambulance Staff to wear PEP against contagious COVID19.

Yes Border Force made grave errors, they aren't the only errors made though.

No it is more than an error. ABF clearly demonstrated the Force had an approval role in disembarkstion.

I agree with that, never argued it?

Well you agree then that under Scomo's bespoke guidelines for these four ships, it is ABF which takes responsibility for docking and disembarkation of Ruby Princess?

Yes, but NSW Health missed an opportunity to prevent this happening as well, that is all I am saying.

I don't. agree for the reason it was provided with crucial info, a part of which was revealed a few minutes ago.

Yes but they had enough information to alert them they should have done health screens onboard. They requested swabs to test for Covid 19, that should have been enough to request onboard health screening.

I am not asking for anyone from NSW Health to be sacked or even punished, I just want tighter procedures put in place so they react to the information that they do have.

You can have all the procedures in the world but if crucial info which would influence the decision making process is not provided, it will be of no value. That is the issue.

 

[cochise]

@Pawsandclaws are you still saying NSW Health made no mistakes with the Ruby Princess?

Yes. The officer exposed failed to enforce the isolation of some passengers onboard while the ship was in international waters. I can understand how a NSW Public Servant could be held accountable.

You were notably absent when the irregularities over the ship's.log, MARS form and response to the Ports Authority by the Ruby Princess were exposed.

I'll back NSW Health. It is called loyalty, look up its meaning.

Not absent at all, I have all along said the ships behaviour was probably criminal, I have also stated that multiple agencies, including NSW Health, missed opportunities to stop the ship from disembarking.

Why would I need to lookup the meaning of loyalty, who am I being disloyal to?

Disembarking? The ship has to dock first and then disembark. That is achieved by the completion and submission of a MARS form. That is a Federal form and more will be heard about that issue.

Our NSW Health staff deserve our loyalty. It is NSW Health staff who front up to tend to patients with COVID19. They put their personal safety at risk every shift. I back the professionalism of NSW Health and those of other NSW agencies in this matter.

NSW Health staff have always had my backing, maybe you should read some of my early posts on this subject, in fact my wife is a NSW Health staff member. Though there have been mistakes made in NSW Health in regard to this issue, by not acknowledging mistake you miss the opportunity to improve practices that led to the mistakes being made. From the testimony of the NSW Health worker who testified today, it would appear that they were extremely understaffed and overworked. How is acknowledging that mistake and seeking improvements to be made being disloyal? Putting your head in the sand is what leads to this mistakes being repeated.

Now I will repeat, NSW Health are not the sole reason this happened, in fact I believe their role was a minor part in a serious of mistakes and outright dishonesty that led to that ship being allowed to disembark. We need to find the reasons for all the mistakes that led to this because if anyone of those mistakes didn't happen then the results wouldn't have been anywhere near as severe.


NSW Health was placed in a no win position. I advised the decision about passengers was only as good as the information provided to the four doctors who made the decision. We know an incomplete log was provided and the decision by the doctors was based on that log. We know also info provided to NSW Ports Authority was not accurate at 8..03pm on the 18th.

Yes we do, no one here has argued that, what has been argued is whether NSW Health had enough information to make a better decision and I believe there was, especially after seeing the testimony from yesterday. I 100% believe when the findings are released criticism of NSW Health will be included, will you then acknowledge that they along with the ship, company and other agencies made critical errors that could have prevented this from happening?

We"ve had 3 days of hearings and you want to put the hatchet in. There is also a concurrent criminal investigation ongoing.

A log which was submitted incomplete, information provided to NSW Port Authority which is at best inaccurate and a form required to dock which is incomplete provides enough anecdotal evidence to suggest the outcome will be far more serious than criticism.

And let's not be afraid to sheet a lot of the blame towards the passengers, many of whom were elderly, who decided to go on a cruise during a pandemic. This is especially so after what happened on Diamond Princess and Grand Princess. Carnival Cruises also in operating a cruise as well during the pandemic.

Finally, the arrangements by Scomo to ban cruise ships from docking, reverse that decision so 4 cruise ships can dock, make bespokr arrangements on the run and put Border Force in charge of docking and disembarkation, then have Outtram squeal and advise it is not our responsibility .

I have never argued any of that?

Carnival agent confirms she sought permission from Border Force Officer to disembark two sick passengers off Ruby Princess on afternoon of 18th. ABF Commissioner previously advised Force had no role.

Carnival agent confirmed Dr advised both patients are potentially infectious by telephone and for NSW Ambulance Staff to wear PEP against contagious COVID19.

Yes Border Force made grave errors, they aren't the only errors made though.

No it is more than an error. ABF clearly demonstrated the Force had an approval role in disembarkstion.

I agree with that, never argued it?

Well you agree then that under Scomo's bespoke guidelines for these four ships, it is ABF which takes responsibility for docking and disembarkation of Ruby Princess?

Yes, but NSW Health missed an opportunity to prevent this happening as well, that is all I am saying.

I don't. agree for the reason it was provided with crucial info, a part of which was revealed a few minutes ago.

Yes but they had enough information to alert them they should have done health screens onboard. They requested swabs to test for Covid 19, that should have been enough to request onboard health screening.

I am not asking for anyone from NSW Health to be sacked or even punished, I just want tighter procedures put in place so they react to the information that they do have.

You can have all the procedures in the world but if crucial info which would influence the decision making process is not provided, it will be of no value. That is the issue.

They still has enough info to make a different decision.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

@Pawsandclaws are you still saying NSW Health made no mistakes with the Ruby Princess?

Yes. The officer exposed failed to enforce the isolation of some passengers onboard while the ship was in international waters. I can understand how a NSW Public Servant could be held accountable.

You were notably absent when the irregularities over the ship's.log, MARS form and response to the Ports Authority by the Ruby Princess were exposed.

I'll back NSW Health. It is called loyalty, look up its meaning.

Not absent at all, I have all along said the ships behaviour was probably criminal, I have also stated that multiple agencies, including NSW Health, missed opportunities to stop the ship from disembarking.

Why would I need to lookup the meaning of loyalty, who am I being disloyal to?

Disembarking? The ship has to dock first and then disembark. That is achieved by the completion and submission of a MARS form. That is a Federal form and more will be heard about that issue.

Our NSW Health staff deserve our loyalty. It is NSW Health staff who front up to tend to patients with COVID19. They put their personal safety at risk every shift. I back the professionalism of NSW Health and those of other NSW agencies in this matter.

NSW Health staff have always had my backing, maybe you should read some of my early posts on this subject, in fact my wife is a NSW Health staff member. Though there have been mistakes made in NSW Health in regard to this issue, by not acknowledging mistake you miss the opportunity to improve practices that led to the mistakes being made. From the testimony of the NSW Health worker who testified today, it would appear that they were extremely understaffed and overworked. How is acknowledging that mistake and seeking improvements to be made being disloyal? Putting your head in the sand is what leads to this mistakes being repeated.

Now I will repeat, NSW Health are not the sole reason this happened, in fact I believe their role was a minor part in a serious of mistakes and outright dishonesty that led to that ship being allowed to disembark. We need to find the reasons for all the mistakes that led to this because if anyone of those mistakes didn't happen then the results wouldn't have been anywhere near as severe.


NSW Health was placed in a no win position. I advised the decision about passengers was only as good as the information provided to the four doctors who made the decision. We know an incomplete log was provided and the decision by the doctors was based on that log. We know also info provided to NSW Ports Authority was not accurate at 8..03pm on the 18th.

Yes we do, no one here has argued that, what has been argued is whether NSW Health had enough information to make a better decision and I believe there was, especially after seeing the testimony from yesterday. I 100% believe when the findings are released criticism of NSW Health will be included, will you then acknowledge that they along with the ship, company and other agencies made critical errors that could have prevented this from happening?

We"ve had 3 days of hearings and you want to put the hatchet in. There is also a concurrent criminal investigation ongoing.

A log which was submitted incomplete, information provided to NSW Port Authority which is at best inaccurate and a form required to dock which is incomplete provides enough anecdotal evidence to suggest the outcome will be far more serious than criticism.

And let's not be afraid to sheet a lot of the blame towards the passengers, many of whom were elderly, who decided to go on a cruise during a pandemic. This is especially so after what happened on Diamond Princess and Grand Princess. Carnival Cruises also in operating a cruise as well during the pandemic.

Finally, the arrangements by Scomo to ban cruise ships from docking, reverse that decision so 4 cruise ships can dock, make bespokr arrangements on the run and put Border Force in charge of docking and disembarkation, then have Outtram squeal and advise it is not our responsibility .

I have never argued any of that?

Carnival agent confirms she sought permission from Border Force Officer to disembark two sick passengers off Ruby Princess on afternoon of 18th. ABF Commissioner previously advised Force had no role.

Carnival agent confirmed Dr advised both patients are potentially infectious by telephone and for NSW Ambulance Staff to wear PEP against contagious COVID19.

Yes Border Force made grave errors, they aren't the only errors made though.

No it is more than an error. ABF clearly demonstrated the Force had an approval role in disembarkstion.

I agree with that, never argued it?

Well you agree then that under Scomo's bespoke guidelines for these four ships, it is ABF which takes responsibility for docking and disembarkation of Ruby Princess?

Yes, but NSW Health missed an opportunity to prevent this happening as well, that is all I am saying.

I don't. agree for the reason it was provided with crucial info, a part of which was revealed a few minutes ago.

Yes but they had enough information to alert them they should have done health screens onboard. They requested swabs to test for Covid 19, that should have been enough to request onboard health screening.

I am not asking for anyone from NSW Health to be sacked or even punished, I just want tighter procedures put in place so they react to the information that they do have.

You can have all the procedures in the world but if crucial info which would influence the decision making process is not provided, it will be of no value. That is the issue.

They still has enough info to make a different decision.

No they didn't. The ship's log was 18 hours old and had not been updated when submitted. NSW Health were not informed of this or the patients the ship had in isolation. A Ports Authority Officer attempted to question the company rep on the dock about health onboard the ship and was denied information.

 

[cochise]

@Pawsandclaws are you still saying NSW Health made no mistakes with the Ruby Princess?

Yes. The officer exposed failed to enforce the isolation of some passengers onboard while the ship was in international waters. I can understand how a NSW Public Servant could be held accountable.

You were notably absent when the irregularities over the ship's.log, MARS form and response to the Ports Authority by the Ruby Princess were exposed.

I'll back NSW Health. It is called loyalty, look up its meaning.

Not absent at all, I have all along said the ships behaviour was probably criminal, I have also stated that multiple agencies, including NSW Health, missed opportunities to stop the ship from disembarking.

Why would I need to lookup the meaning of loyalty, who am I being disloyal to?

Disembarking? The ship has to dock first and then disembark. That is achieved by the completion and submission of a MARS form. That is a Federal form and more will be heard about that issue.

Our NSW Health staff deserve our loyalty. It is NSW Health staff who front up to tend to patients with COVID19. They put their personal safety at risk every shift. I back the professionalism of NSW Health and those of other NSW agencies in this matter.

NSW Health staff have always had my backing, maybe you should read some of my early posts on this subject, in fact my wife is a NSW Health staff member. Though there have been mistakes made in NSW Health in regard to this issue, by not acknowledging mistake you miss the opportunity to improve practices that led to the mistakes being made. From the testimony of the NSW Health worker who testified today, it would appear that they were extremely understaffed and overworked. How is acknowledging that mistake and seeking improvements to be made being disloyal? Putting your head in the sand is what leads to this mistakes being repeated.

Now I will repeat, NSW Health are not the sole reason this happened, in fact I believe their role was a minor part in a serious of mistakes and outright dishonesty that led to that ship being allowed to disembark. We need to find the reasons for all the mistakes that led to this because if anyone of those mistakes didn't happen then the results wouldn't have been anywhere near as severe.


NSW Health was placed in a no win position. I advised the decision about passengers was only as good as the information provided to the four doctors who made the decision. We know an incomplete log was provided and the decision by the doctors was based on that log. We know also info provided to NSW Ports Authority was not accurate at 8..03pm on the 18th.

Yes we do, no one here has argued that, what has been argued is whether NSW Health had enough information to make a better decision and I believe there was, especially after seeing the testimony from yesterday. I 100% believe when the findings are released criticism of NSW Health will be included, will you then acknowledge that they along with the ship, company and other agencies made critical errors that could have prevented this from happening?

We"ve had 3 days of hearings and you want to put the hatchet in. There is also a concurrent criminal investigation ongoing.

A log which was submitted incomplete, information provided to NSW Port Authority which is at best inaccurate and a form required to dock which is incomplete provides enough anecdotal evidence to suggest the outcome will be far more serious than criticism.

And let's not be afraid to sheet a lot of the blame towards the passengers, many of whom were elderly, who decided to go on a cruise during a pandemic. This is especially so after what happened on Diamond Princess and Grand Princess. Carnival Cruises also in operating a cruise as well during the pandemic.

Finally, the arrangements by Scomo to ban cruise ships from docking, reverse that decision so 4 cruise ships can dock, make bespokr arrangements on the run and put Border Force in charge of docking and disembarkation, then have Outtram squeal and advise it is not our responsibility .

I have never argued any of that?

Carnival agent confirms she sought permission from Border Force Officer to disembark two sick passengers off Ruby Princess on afternoon of 18th. ABF Commissioner previously advised Force had no role.

Carnival agent confirmed Dr advised both patients are potentially infectious by telephone and for NSW Ambulance Staff to wear PEP against contagious COVID19.

Yes Border Force made grave errors, they aren't the only errors made though.

No it is more than an error. ABF clearly demonstrated the Force had an approval role in disembarkstion.

I agree with that, never argued it?

Well you agree then that under Scomo's bespoke guidelines for these four ships, it is ABF which takes responsibility for docking and disembarkation of Ruby Princess?

Yes, but NSW Health missed an opportunity to prevent this happening as well, that is all I am saying.

I don't. agree for the reason it was provided with crucial info, a part of which was revealed a few minutes ago.

Yes but they had enough information to alert them they should have done health screens onboard. They requested swabs to test for Covid 19, that should have been enough to request onboard health screening.

I am not asking for anyone from NSW Health to be sacked or even punished, I just want tighter procedures put in place so they react to the information that they do have.

You can have all the procedures in the world but if crucial info which would influence the decision making process is not provided, it will be of no value. That is the issue.

They still has enough info to make a different decision.

No they didn't. The ship's log was 18 hours old and had not been updated when submitted. NSW Health were not informed of this or the patients the ship had in isolation. A Ports Authority Officer attempted to question the company rep on the dock about health onboard the ship and was denied information.

Yes they did, NSW Health requested passenger swabs to test for Covid 19, that in itself is enough reason to do onboard checks. Yes the ship was criminally misleading, but requesting swabs shows they knew there was a chance covid was onboard.

 

[Guest]

I think you will see a change in processes when the dust settles on the Ruby Princess. Blame cannot be laid fairly and squarely at one particular agency or person. To say the fault lies with one particular agency is just wrong. The existing system has flaws and as I said several pages ago, the fallout will be widespread, just like COVID-19.

The system needs to change and be a hell of a lot more robust to avoid situations like this from ever happening again.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

@Pawsandclaws are you still saying NSW Health made no mistakes with the Ruby Princess?

Yes. The officer exposed failed to enforce the isolation of some passengers onboard while the ship was in international waters. I can understand how a NSW Public Servant could be held accountable.

You were notably absent when the irregularities over the ship's.log, MARS form and response to the Ports Authority by the Ruby Princess were exposed.

I'll back NSW Health. It is called loyalty, look up its meaning.

Not absent at all, I have all along said the ships behaviour was probably criminal, I have also stated that multiple agencies, including NSW Health, missed opportunities to stop the ship from disembarking.

Why would I need to lookup the meaning of loyalty, who am I being disloyal to?

Disembarking? The ship has to dock first and then disembark. That is achieved by the completion and submission of a MARS form. That is a Federal form and more will be heard about that issue.

Our NSW Health staff deserve our loyalty. It is NSW Health staff who front up to tend to patients with COVID19. They put their personal safety at risk every shift. I back the professionalism of NSW Health and those of other NSW agencies in this matter.

NSW Health staff have always had my backing, maybe you should read some of my early posts on this subject, in fact my wife is a NSW Health staff member. Though there have been mistakes made in NSW Health in regard to this issue, by not acknowledging mistake you miss the opportunity to improve practices that led to the mistakes being made. From the testimony of the NSW Health worker who testified today, it would appear that they were extremely understaffed and overworked. How is acknowledging that mistake and seeking improvements to be made being disloyal? Putting your head in the sand is what leads to this mistakes being repeated.

Now I will repeat, NSW Health are not the sole reason this happened, in fact I believe their role was a minor part in a serious of mistakes and outright dishonesty that led to that ship being allowed to disembark. We need to find the reasons for all the mistakes that led to this because if anyone of those mistakes didn't happen then the results wouldn't have been anywhere near as severe.


NSW Health was placed in a no win position. I advised the decision about passengers was only as good as the information provided to the four doctors who made the decision. We know an incomplete log was provided and the decision by the doctors was based on that log. We know also info provided to NSW Ports Authority was not accurate at 8..03pm on the 18th.

Yes we do, no one here has argued that, what has been argued is whether NSW Health had enough information to make a better decision and I believe there was, especially after seeing the testimony from yesterday. I 100% believe when the findings are released criticism of NSW Health will be included, will you then acknowledge that they along with the ship, company and other agencies made critical errors that could have prevented this from happening?

We"ve had 3 days of hearings and you want to put the hatchet in. There is also a concurrent criminal investigation ongoing.

A log which was submitted incomplete, information provided to NSW Port Authority which is at best inaccurate and a form required to dock which is incomplete provides enough anecdotal evidence to suggest the outcome will be far more serious than criticism.

And let's not be afraid to sheet a lot of the blame towards the passengers, many of whom were elderly, who decided to go on a cruise during a pandemic. This is especially so after what happened on Diamond Princess and Grand Princess. Carnival Cruises also in operating a cruise as well during the pandemic.

Finally, the arrangements by Scomo to ban cruise ships from docking, reverse that decision so 4 cruise ships can dock, make bespokr arrangements on the run and put Border Force in charge of docking and disembarkation, then have Outtram squeal and advise it is not our responsibility .

I have never argued any of that?

Carnival agent confirms she sought permission from Border Force Officer to disembark two sick passengers off Ruby Princess on afternoon of 18th. ABF Commissioner previously advised Force had no role.

Carnival agent confirmed Dr advised both patients are potentially infectious by telephone and for NSW Ambulance Staff to wear PEP against contagious COVID19.

Yes Border Force made grave errors, they aren't the only errors made though.

No it is more than an error. ABF clearly demonstrated the Force had an approval role in disembarkstion.

I agree with that, never argued it?

Well you agree then that under Scomo's bespoke guidelines for these four ships, it is ABF which takes responsibility for docking and disembarkation of Ruby Princess?

Yes, but NSW Health missed an opportunity to prevent this happening as well, that is all I am saying.

I don't. agree for the reason it was provided with crucial info, a part of which was revealed a few minutes ago.

Yes but they had enough information to alert them they should have done health screens onboard. They requested swabs to test for Covid 19, that should have been enough to request onboard health screening.

I am not asking for anyone from NSW Health to be sacked or even punished, I just want tighter procedures put in place so they react to the information that they do have.

You can have all the procedures in the world but if crucial info which would influence the decision making process is not provided, it will be of no value. That is the issue.

They still has enough info to make a different decision.

No they didn't. The ship's log was 18 hours old and had not been updated when submitted. NSW Health were not informed of this or the patients the ship had in isolation. A Ports Authority Officer attempted to question the company rep on the dock about health onboard the ship and was denied information.

Yes they did, NSW Health requested passenger swabs to test for Covid 19, that in itself is enough reason to do onboard checks. Yes the ship was criminally misleading, but requesting swabs shows they knew there was a chance covid was onboard.

5 swabs were taken in Wellington and came back negative. Combined with the outdated ship's log and the MARS approval by Federal agency, a completely different situation emerges.

 

[cochise]

I think you will see a change in processes when the dust settles on the Ruby Princess. Blame cannot be laid fairly and squarely at one particular agency or person. To say the fault lies with one particular agency is just wrong. The existing system has flaws and as I said several pages ago, the fallout will be widespread, just like COVID-19.

The system needs to change and be a hell of a lot more robust to avoid situations like this from ever happening again.

Perfectly said mate, there was a fall down across the board with this ship docking. I see it in a similar vein to an airline disaster where multiple mistakes compound to cause a plane to fall out of the sky, a lot of time if anyone of those things didn't happen then the plane would have been fine. I view this situation exactly the same, a lot of decisions were made that led to this ship disembarking the way it did. If any one of those decisions had of been reversed then we wouldn't be talking about this.

 

[cochise]

@Pawsandclaws are you still saying NSW Health made no mistakes with the Ruby Princess?

Yes. The officer exposed failed to enforce the isolation of some passengers onboard while the ship was in international waters. I can understand how a NSW Public Servant could be held accountable.

You were notably absent when the irregularities over the ship's.log, MARS form and response to the Ports Authority by the Ruby Princess were exposed.

I'll back NSW Health. It is called loyalty, look up its meaning.

Not absent at all, I have all along said the ships behaviour was probably criminal, I have also stated that multiple agencies, including NSW Health, missed opportunities to stop the ship from disembarking.

Why would I need to lookup the meaning of loyalty, who am I being disloyal to?

Disembarking? The ship has to dock first and then disembark. That is achieved by the completion and submission of a MARS form. That is a Federal form and more will be heard about that issue.

Our NSW Health staff deserve our loyalty. It is NSW Health staff who front up to tend to patients with COVID19. They put their personal safety at risk every shift. I back the professionalism of NSW Health and those of other NSW agencies in this matter.

NSW Health staff have always had my backing, maybe you should read some of my early posts on this subject, in fact my wife is a NSW Health staff member. Though there have been mistakes made in NSW Health in regard to this issue, by not acknowledging mistake you miss the opportunity to improve practices that led to the mistakes being made. From the testimony of the NSW Health worker who testified today, it would appear that they were extremely understaffed and overworked. How is acknowledging that mistake and seeking improvements to be made being disloyal? Putting your head in the sand is what leads to this mistakes being repeated.

Now I will repeat, NSW Health are not the sole reason this happened, in fact I believe their role was a minor part in a serious of mistakes and outright dishonesty that led to that ship being allowed to disembark. We need to find the reasons for all the mistakes that led to this because if anyone of those mistakes didn't happen then the results wouldn't have been anywhere near as severe.


NSW Health was placed in a no win position. I advised the decision about passengers was only as good as the information provided to the four doctors who made the decision. We know an incomplete log was provided and the decision by the doctors was based on that log. We know also info provided to NSW Ports Authority was not accurate at 8..03pm on the 18th.

Yes we do, no one here has argued that, what has been argued is whether NSW Health had enough information to make a better decision and I believe there was, especially after seeing the testimony from yesterday. I 100% believe when the findings are released criticism of NSW Health will be included, will you then acknowledge that they along with the ship, company and other agencies made critical errors that could have prevented this from happening?

We"ve had 3 days of hearings and you want to put the hatchet in. There is also a concurrent criminal investigation ongoing.

A log which was submitted incomplete, information provided to NSW Port Authority which is at best inaccurate and a form required to dock which is incomplete provides enough anecdotal evidence to suggest the outcome will be far more serious than criticism.

And let's not be afraid to sheet a lot of the blame towards the passengers, many of whom were elderly, who decided to go on a cruise during a pandemic. This is especially so after what happened on Diamond Princess and Grand Princess. Carnival Cruises also in operating a cruise as well during the pandemic.

Finally, the arrangements by Scomo to ban cruise ships from docking, reverse that decision so 4 cruise ships can dock, make bespokr arrangements on the run and put Border Force in charge of docking and disembarkation, then have Outtram squeal and advise it is not our responsibility .

I have never argued any of that?

Carnival agent confirms she sought permission from Border Force Officer to disembark two sick passengers off Ruby Princess on afternoon of 18th. ABF Commissioner previously advised Force had no role.

Carnival agent confirmed Dr advised both patients are potentially infectious by telephone and for NSW Ambulance Staff to wear PEP against contagious COVID19.

Yes Border Force made grave errors, they aren't the only errors made though.

No it is more than an error. ABF clearly demonstrated the Force had an approval role in disembarkstion.

I agree with that, never argued it?

Well you agree then that under Scomo's bespoke guidelines for these four ships, it is ABF which takes responsibility for docking and disembarkation of Ruby Princess?

Yes, but NSW Health missed an opportunity to prevent this happening as well, that is all I am saying.

I don't. agree for the reason it was provided with crucial info, a part of which was revealed a few minutes ago.

Yes but they had enough information to alert them they should have done health screens onboard. They requested swabs to test for Covid 19, that should have been enough to request onboard health screening.

I am not asking for anyone from NSW Health to be sacked or even punished, I just want tighter procedures put in place so they react to the information that they do have.

You can have all the procedures in the world but if crucial info which would influence the decision making process is not provided, it will be of no value. That is the issue.

They still has enough info to make a different decision.

No they didn't. The ship's log was 18 hours old and had not been updated when submitted. NSW Health were not informed of this or the patients the ship had in isolation. A Ports Authority Officer attempted to question the company rep on the dock about health onboard the ship and was denied information.

Yes they did, NSW Health requested passenger swabs to test for Covid 19, that in itself is enough reason to do onboard checks. Yes the ship was criminally misleading, but requesting swabs shows they knew there was a chance covid was onboard.

5 swabs were taken in Wellington and came back negative. Combined with the outdated ship's log and the MARS approval by Federal agency, a completely different situation emerges.

The ship had taken its own swabs and tested for the flu, NSW Health then requested those swabs to test for Covid 19.

 

[mike]

@Pawsandclaws are you still saying NSW Health made no mistakes with the Ruby Princess?

Yes. The officer exposed failed to enforce the isolation of some passengers onboard while the ship was in international waters. I can understand how a NSW Public Servant could be held accountable.

You were notably absent when the irregularities over the ship's.log, MARS form and response to the Ports Authority by the Ruby Princess were exposed.

I'll back NSW Health. It is called loyalty, look up its meaning.

Not absent at all, I have all along said the ships behaviour was probably criminal, I have also stated that multiple agencies, including NSW Health, missed opportunities to stop the ship from disembarking.

Why would I need to lookup the meaning of loyalty, who am I being disloyal to?

Disembarking? The ship has to dock first and then disembark. That is achieved by the completion and submission of a MARS form. That is a Federal form and more will be heard about that issue.

Our NSW Health staff deserve our loyalty. It is NSW Health staff who front up to tend to patients with COVID19. They put their personal safety at risk every shift. I back the professionalism of NSW Health and those of other NSW agencies in this matter.

NSW Health staff have always had my backing, maybe you should read some of my early posts on this subject, in fact my wife is a NSW Health staff member. Though there have been mistakes made in NSW Health in regard to this issue, by not acknowledging mistake you miss the opportunity to improve practices that led to the mistakes being made. From the testimony of the NSW Health worker who testified today, it would appear that they were extremely understaffed and overworked. How is acknowledging that mistake and seeking improvements to be made being disloyal? Putting your head in the sand is what leads to this mistakes being repeated.

Now I will repeat, NSW Health are not the sole reason this happened, in fact I believe their role was a minor part in a serious of mistakes and outright dishonesty that led to that ship being allowed to disembark. We need to find the reasons for all the mistakes that led to this because if anyone of those mistakes didn't happen then the results wouldn't have been anywhere near as severe.


NSW Health was placed in a no win position. I advised the decision about passengers was only as good as the information provided to the four doctors who made the decision. We know an incomplete log was provided and the decision by the doctors was based on that log. We know also info provided to NSW Ports Authority was not accurate at 8..03pm on the 18th.

Yes we do, no one here has argued that, what has been argued is whether NSW Health had enough information to make a better decision and I believe there was, especially after seeing the testimony from yesterday. I 100% believe when the findings are released criticism of NSW Health will be included, will you then acknowledge that they along with the ship, company and other agencies made critical errors that could have prevented this from happening?

We"ve had 3 days of hearings and you want to put the hatchet in. There is also a concurrent criminal investigation ongoing.

A log which was submitted incomplete, information provided to NSW Port Authority which is at best inaccurate and a form required to dock which is incomplete provides enough anecdotal evidence to suggest the outcome will be far more serious than criticism.

And let's not be afraid to sheet a lot of the blame towards the passengers, many of whom were elderly, who decided to go on a cruise during a pandemic. This is especially so after what happened on Diamond Princess and Grand Princess. Carnival Cruises also in operating a cruise as well during the pandemic.

Finally, the arrangements by Scomo to ban cruise ships from docking, reverse that decision so 4 cruise ships can dock, make bespokr arrangements on the run and put Border Force in charge of docking and disembarkation, then have Outtram squeal and advise it is not our responsibility .

I have never argued any of that?

Carnival agent confirms she sought permission from Border Force Officer to disembark two sick passengers off Ruby Princess on afternoon of 18th. ABF Commissioner previously advised Force had no role.

Carnival agent confirmed Dr advised both patients are potentially infectious by telephone and for NSW Ambulance Staff to wear PEP against contagious COVID19.

Yes Border Force made grave errors, they aren't the only errors made though.

No it is more than an error. ABF clearly demonstrated the Force had an approval role in disembarkstion.

I agree with that, never argued it?

Well you agree then that under Scomo's bespoke guidelines for these four ships, it is ABF which takes responsibility for docking and disembarkation of Ruby Princess?

Yes, but NSW Health missed an opportunity to prevent this happening as well, that is all I am saying.

I don't. agree for the reason it was provided with crucial info, a part of which was revealed a few minutes ago.

Yes but they had enough information to alert them they should have done health screens onboard. They requested swabs to test for Covid 19, that should have been enough to request onboard health screening.

I am not asking for anyone from NSW Health to be sacked or even punished, I just want tighter procedures put in place so they react to the information that they do have.

You can have all the procedures in the world but if crucial info which would influence the decision making process is not provided, it will be of no value. That is the issue.

They still has enough info to make a different decision.

No they didn't. The ship's log was 18 hours old and had not been updated when submitted. NSW Health were not informed of this or the patients the ship had in isolation. A Ports Authority Officer attempted to question the company rep on the dock about health onboard the ship and was denied information.

Yes they did, NSW Health requested passenger swabs to test for Covid 19, that in itself is enough reason to do onboard checks. Yes the ship was criminally misleading, but requesting swabs shows they knew there was a chance covid was onboard.

5 swabs were taken in Wellington and came back negative. Combined with the outdated ship's log and the MARS approval by Federal agency, a completely different situation emerges.

Oh dear. NSW health had ambulances on the dock. They were told to wear PPE which they did. They didn’t need any other information under the circumstances at the time. Trouble is the department itself couldn’t put two and two together and figure out that there was an major issue. Given the circumstances and what was happening overseas and previously with Princess Cruises wrong decisions were made by inexperienced officers. NSW health don’t get a free pass in this. Processes Internally will have to change to ensure this never happens again.

IMO what should have happened is the passengers should have been allowed to disembark but instead of being let lose into the community the passengers should have been placed in isolation for a minimum of two weeks. Much like what they did with the passengers that arrived back by plane in Darwin. The precedent had already been set but inexperience NSW officers failed to learn from it.

I also believe there was external political pressures applied to a number of departments to let them ship dock and allow the passengers to disembark unimpeded. I have no evidence of this but have heard similar from a number of sources. I am hoping the current enquiry will shed some light on this.

 

[cochise]

Pleasing to see Morrison stick up for the NSW Health worker that testified yesterday, I too thought the questioning was a little aggressive.

 

[Hangonaminute]

So the app isn't operational and there's been reports that it has been messing up other important apps in people's phones such as a blood sugar app for people with diabetes.
***The advice*** for people with important health apps on their phones is to uninstall the Covid19 app (it doesn't work anyway).

What a joke

Which advice is that?

The advice of anyone with important health apps on their phones that this useless app is interfering with. Ask Mighty Tiger

They're qualified to proffer this advice?
It.looked.like you're suggesting this advice.

Why is it only affecting health apps?

I don't know what other apps it's affecting but having any app that doesn't even work and affects other apps, any person with half a brain wouldn't keep it on their phone.

 

[mike]

So the app isn't operational and there's been reports that it has been messing up other important apps in people's phones such as a blood sugar app for people with diabetes.
***The advice*** for people with important health apps on their phones is to uninstall the Covid19 app (it doesn't work anyway).

What a joke

Which advice is that?

The advice of anyone with important health apps on their phones that this useless app is interfering with. Ask Mighty Tiger

They're qualified to proffer this advice?
It.looked.like you're suggesting this advice.

Why is it only affecting health apps?

I don't know what other apps it's affecting but having any app that doesn't even work and affects other apps, any person with half a brain wouldn't keep it on their phone.

The latest update of the app fixes the problem effecting other apps and Bluetooth. I’m glad I have more than half a brain because I’ll be keeping it in my smartphone.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

@Pawsandclaws are you still saying NSW Health made no mistakes with the Ruby Princess?

Yes. The officer exposed failed to enforce the isolation of some passengers onboard while the ship was in international waters. I can understand how a NSW Public Servant could be held accountable.

You were notably absent when the irregularities over the ship's.log, MARS form and response to the Ports Authority by the Ruby Princess were exposed.

I'll back NSW Health. It is called loyalty, look up its meaning.

Not absent at all, I have all along said the ships behaviour was probably criminal, I have also stated that multiple agencies, including NSW Health, missed opportunities to stop the ship from disembarking.

Why would I need to lookup the meaning of loyalty, who am I being disloyal to?

Disembarking? The ship has to dock first and then disembark. That is achieved by the completion and submission of a MARS form. That is a Federal form and more will be heard about that issue.

Our NSW Health staff deserve our loyalty. It is NSW Health staff who front up to tend to patients with COVID19. They put their personal safety at risk every shift. I back the professionalism of NSW Health and those of other NSW agencies in this matter.

NSW Health staff have always had my backing, maybe you should read some of my early posts on this subject, in fact my wife is a NSW Health staff member. Though there have been mistakes made in NSW Health in regard to this issue, by not acknowledging mistake you miss the opportunity to improve practices that led to the mistakes being made. From the testimony of the NSW Health worker who testified today, it would appear that they were extremely understaffed and overworked. How is acknowledging that mistake and seeking improvements to be made being disloyal? Putting your head in the sand is what leads to this mistakes being repeated.

Now I will repeat, NSW Health are not the sole reason this happened, in fact I believe their role was a minor part in a serious of mistakes and outright dishonesty that led to that ship being allowed to disembark. We need to find the reasons for all the mistakes that led to this because if anyone of those mistakes didn't happen then the results wouldn't have been anywhere near as severe.


NSW Health was placed in a no win position. I advised the decision about passengers was only as good as the information provided to the four doctors who made the decision. We know an incomplete log was provided and the decision by the doctors was based on that log. We know also info provided to NSW Ports Authority was not accurate at 8..03pm on the 18th.

Yes we do, no one here has argued that, what has been argued is whether NSW Health had enough information to make a better decision and I believe there was, especially after seeing the testimony from yesterday. I 100% believe when the findings are released criticism of NSW Health will be included, will you then acknowledge that they along with the ship, company and other agencies made critical errors that could have prevented this from happening?

We"ve had 3 days of hearings and you want to put the hatchet in. There is also a concurrent criminal investigation ongoing.

A log which was submitted incomplete, information provided to NSW Port Authority which is at best inaccurate and a form required to dock which is incomplete provides enough anecdotal evidence to suggest the outcome will be far more serious than criticism.

And let's not be afraid to sheet a lot of the blame towards the passengers, many of whom were elderly, who decided to go on a cruise during a pandemic. This is especially so after what happened on Diamond Princess and Grand Princess. Carnival Cruises also in operating a cruise as well during the pandemic.

Finally, the arrangements by Scomo to ban cruise ships from docking, reverse that decision so 4 cruise ships can dock, make bespokr arrangements on the run and put Border Force in charge of docking and disembarkation, then have Outtram squeal and advise it is not our responsibility .

I have never argued any of that?

Carnival agent confirms she sought permission from Border Force Officer to disembark two sick passengers off Ruby Princess on afternoon of 18th. ABF Commissioner previously advised Force had no role.

Carnival agent confirmed Dr advised both patients are potentially infectious by telephone and for NSW Ambulance Staff to wear PEP against contagious COVID19.

Yes Border Force made grave errors, they aren't the only errors made though.

No it is more than an error. ABF clearly demonstrated the Force had an approval role in disembarkstion.

I agree with that, never argued it?

Well you agree then that under Scomo's bespoke guidelines for these four ships, it is ABF which takes responsibility for docking and disembarkation of Ruby Princess?

Yes, but NSW Health missed an opportunity to prevent this happening as well, that is all I am saying.

I don't. agree for the reason it was provided with crucial info, a part of which was revealed a few minutes ago.

Yes but they had enough information to alert them they should have done health screens onboard. They requested swabs to test for Covid 19, that should have been enough to request onboard health screening.

I am not asking for anyone from NSW Health to be sacked or even punished, I just want tighter procedures put in place so they react to the information that they do have.

You can have all the procedures in the world but if crucial info which would influence the decision making process is not provided, it will be of no value. That is the issue.

They still has enough info to make a different decision.

No they didn't. The ship's log was 18 hours old and had not been updated when submitted. NSW Health were not informed of this or the patients the ship had in isolation. A Ports Authority Officer attempted to question the company rep on the dock about health onboard the ship and was denied information.

Yes they did, NSW Health requested passenger swabs to test for Covid 19, that in itself is enough reason to do onboard checks. Yes the ship was criminally misleading, but requesting swabs shows they knew there was a chance covid was onboard.

5 swabs were taken in Wellington and came back negative. Combined with the outdated ship's log and the MARS approval by Federal agency, a completely different situation emerges.

Oh dear. NSW health had ambulances on the dock. They were told to wear PPE which they did. They didn’t need any other information under the circumstances at the time. Trouble is the department itself couldn’t put two and two together and figure out that there was an major issue. Given the circumstances and what was happening overseas and previously with Princess Cruises wrong decisions were made by inexperienced officers. NSW health don’t get a free pass in this. Processes Internally will have to change to ensure this never happens again.

IMO what should have happened is the passengers should have been allowed to disembark but instead of being let lose into the community the passengers should have been placed in isolation for a minimum of two weeks. Much like what they did with the passengers that arrived back by plane in Darwin. The precedent had already been set but inexperience NSW officers failed to learn from it.

I also believe there was external political pressures applied to a number of departments to let them ship dock and allow the passengers to disembark unimpeded. I have no evidence of this but have heard similar from a number of sources. I am hoping the current enquiry will shed some light on this.

As Commissioner Walker commented today, low risk does not mean no risk.

 

[mike]

Newmarch Nursing Home looks like it will loose its licence.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Newmarch Nursing Home looks like it will loose its licence.

So what about all the other aged care centres under the umbrella of Anglicare? Nothing more than face saving.

 

[mike]

Newmarch Nursing Home looks like it will loose its licence.

So what about all the other aged care centres under the umbrella of Anglicare? Nothing more than face saving.

Yes. Serious question need to be asked about Anglicare overall management and their priorities.

 

[Snake]

Pleasing to see Morrison stick up for the NSW Health worker that testified yesterday, I too thought the questioning was a little aggressive.

The Prime Minister is certainly showing impressive leadership qualities and is truely leading the country through this terrible time ... when you see the quality of other leaders I think we can be very appreciative of his leadership !

 

[cochise]

Pleasing to see Morrison stick up for the NSW Health worker that testified yesterday, I too thought the questioning was a little aggressive.

The Prime Minister is certainly showing impressive leadership qualities and is truely leading the country through this terrible time ... when you see the quality of other leaders I think we can be very appreciative of his leadership !

I am usually a labor voter, but have found him to be quite impressive during this crisis and a massive improvement from how he dealt with the bush fires.

 

[Snake]

Newmarch Nursing Home looks like it will loose its licence.

So what about all the other aged care centres under the umbrella of Anglicare? Nothing more than face saving.

Yes. Serious question need to be asked about Anglicare overall management and their priorities.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Meanwhile in the land of the easily fooled President Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon has confirmed that their coronavirus taskforce will soon be winding down(probably early June).I honestly wonder when he will claim he is either being sarcastic (again) or misquoted (yet again).
God help America because that idiot leader certainly wont

I was on an NFL forum last night where someone posted that it was good that the NFL had cancelled the international games for this season as Europe is rife with the virus compared to the US.

That is very disturbing to see someone as misguided as that,i can only hope that more informed Americans and there are many corrected them quickly.

Mate 100%, I'm hoping he was joking, but I am not so sure.


TBH, there is not that much difference between the US & Western Europe. US has less (nearly half) the deaths per capita than most western european countries which I think say more about the testing in US v Europe. US are the biggest testing country and are picking up more cases. NY is disaster with about 16000 cases per million population, if you take NY out of the US (I know you cant) the rest of the US is about the same or less cases per capita than western Europe with much more testing.

I dont think its that far fetched to suggest its worse in Europe. ITs definitely not better.

My surprise wasn't that he wasn't that he thought he was wrong saying it was bad in Europe, it was the lack of acknowledgement of how bad it actually is in the USA. Yes Europe is worse, but what is happening in the US shouldn't be taken lightly.

The US are now at the testing numbers that they should have been at more than a month ago, but saw a graph yesterday showing that once the influence of New York, which is on a strong downward trend was removed from the equation, the numbers of the other states combined have still been rising and yet to properly plateau.

I don't expect that they will go down much, if at all in the short term, rather, thinking that they will start to rise again in the coming weeks and possibly exponentially as they seem to be opening prematurely. Expect that their best hope is that the warming weather and extra sunshine will help to somewhat curb it.