Coronavirus Outbreak

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@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440828) said:
@willow said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440814) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440786) said:
I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

It's impossible at this point I'm afraid - you can't rely on the community to do the right thing during this pandemic - some don't believe in it, others think they are bullet proof, others want to visit their family regardless of the circumstances, others don't trust the government and thumb their nose at them at every opportunity...and the virus does not care - it will continue to spread regardless.

Then unfortunately I think we are screwed, because no country on earth has shown vaccination on its own to be enough, especially countries where there is a certain percentage of the population who refuse to get vaccinated (which looks to be the case in Australia). The US is heading back to 100,000 cases a day, highly-vaxxed countries like Israel are going back into lockdown. If we are not going to use our one natural advantage - that we are an island and can control our border - then we are going to be enduring these half-ar##ed lockdowns well into next year.

The government has already ruled out closing the borders to returning Australians - it's part of the problem and is partly why the government is saying we have to learn to live with the virus.
 
@willow said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440843) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440828) said:
@willow said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440814) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440786) said:
I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

It's impossible at this point I'm afraid - you can't rely on the community to do the right thing during this pandemic - some don't believe in it, others think they are bullet proof, others want to visit their family regardless of the circumstances, others don't trust the government and thumb their nose at them at every opportunity...and the virus does not care - it will continue to spread regardless.

Then unfortunately I think we are screwed, because no country on earth has shown vaccination on its own to be enough, especially countries where there is a certain percentage of the population who refuse to get vaccinated (which looks to be the case in Australia). The US is heading back to 100,000 cases a day, highly-vaxxed countries like Israel are going back into lockdown. If we are not going to use our one natural advantage - that we are an island and can control our border - then we are going to be enduring these half-ar##ed lockdowns well into next year.

The government has already ruled out closing the borders to returning Australians - it's part of the problem and is partly why the government is saying we have to learn to live with the virus.

Yes I realise I'm just yelling at clouds, what I want to happen and what will happen are two very different things.
 
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440838) said:
I think we’ll get to a stage where there is a relatively high level of voluntary vaccination in this country. I’m still quietly confident that we will get close to the 80% mark once appropriate vaccines are available to all.

I'm hopeful because the vaccine hesitancy appears to be predominantly brand based. I think it's stupid and I'd keep rolling out as is. If you are over 70 and you haven't taken the AZ then you wait until all high risk categories have had their chance at Pfizer and then you can get the AZ. Some of them will die but I think it's a fair judgement call based on their risk profiles.

I read we had 40million Pfizer doses due this year and I assume we also get some Moderna. We should be able to have 100% access to vaccines by the end of this year.

@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440838) said:
I think that because this issue has not become as politicised as it has in other countries (particularly the US), nor do we have the same percentage of population who are whacko conspiracy theorists.

We have to keep politics and the nutters out of this. It's not a political issue. I think these people are going to be statistically insignificant as well.

Let's see what happens though.
 
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440813) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440810) said:
@trusted_insider said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440806) said:
It would’ve ended up here regardless

It spreads by the movement of people. If you have a hard international border you limit the movement of the virus. New Zealand is not 'living with' delta, and nor should we aim to do that. If we go hard (which we're not doing) we can get rid of it.

People have a right to return home.

But why is this particular right elevated above others? The right to visit family, the right to go to a dear person's funeral or wedding, the right to visit a suffering relative in hospital, the right to work - these are all currently on hold, but some bloke who's been living overseas for 2 years with plenty of chances to come home earlier has an *unassailable* right to enter Australia and risk spreading a virus in a country that demonstrably can't cope with it. I know I'm in the minority on this and I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it. It just makes my blood boil.
 
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440845) said:
Yes I realise I’m just yelling at clouds,

This is the point. The writing appears to on the wall. Listen to the press conference today. The message to me appears clear. Get vaccinated because we can't stop this. That is my read of the message and that has been the message for a while.
 
@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440855) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440845) said:
Yes I realise I’m just yelling at clouds,

This is the point. The writing appears to on the wall. Listen to the press conference today. The message to me appears clear. Get vaccinated because we can't stop this. That is my read of the message and that has been the message for a while.

Yeah I agree, fair enough. I will stop my incessant posting for now. Go and get vaccinated everyone!
 
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440856) said:
This is the point. The writing appears to on the wall. Listen to the press conference today. The message to me appears clear. Get vaccinated because we can’t stop this. That is my read of the message and that has been the message for a while.

I'm off for a walk. Just put my mask on. Completely vaccinated. I still got to wear the mask.
 
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440853) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440813) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440810) said:
@trusted_insider said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440806) said:
It would’ve ended up here regardless

It spreads by the movement of people. If you have a hard international border you limit the movement of the virus. New Zealand is not 'living with' delta, and nor should we aim to do that. If we go hard (which we're not doing) we can get rid of it.

People have a right to return home.

But why is this particular right elevated above others? The right to visit family, the right to go to a dear person's funeral or wedding, the right to visit a suffering relative in hospital, the right to work - these are all currently on hold, but some bloke who's been living overseas for 2 years with plenty of chances to come home earlier has an *unassailable* right to enter Australia and risk spreading a virus in a country that demonstrably can't cope with it. I know I'm in the minority on this and I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it. It just makes my blood boil.

Mate, I do understand your point of view and I was close to adopting it at one point. I just don’t believe in turning our back on our citizens despite how stupid some of them are.
 
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440841) said:
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440838) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440828) said:
@willow said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440814) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440786) said:
I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

It's impossible at this point I'm afraid - you can't rely on the community to do the right thing during this pandemic - some don't believe in it, others think they are bullet proof, others want to visit their family regardless of the circumstances, others don't trust the government and thumb their nose at them at every opportunity...and the virus does not care - it will continue to spread regardless.

Then unfortunately I think we are screwed, because no country on earth has shown vaccination on its own to be enough, especially countries where there is a certain percentage of the population who refuse to get vaccinated (which looks to be the case in Australia). The US is heading back to 100,000 cases a day, highly-vaxxed countries like Israel are going back into lockdown. If we are not going to use our one natural advantage - that we are an island and can control our border - then we are going to be enduring these half-ar##ed lockdowns well into next year.

I think we'll get to a stage where there is a relatively high level of voluntary vaccination in this country. I'm still quietly confident that we will get close to the 80% mark once appropriate vaccines are available to all.
I think that because this issue has not become as politicised as it has in other countries (particularly the US), nor do we have the same percentage of population who are whacko conspiracy theorists. In the main, Australians are a fairly level headed bunch. (even including Parra supporters) and I think common sense will ultimately prevail.
When we do get to that stage, restrictions will ease and the unvaccinated will just have to take their chances. One thing that might motivate the recalcitrant is if all covid treatment for the vaccinated (and those with conditions preventing vaccination) was free, but the unvaccinated have to pay full freight for hospitalisation and medical treatment related to Covid.
Some may think that's unfair, but so is holding back the rest of society from moving on with life.

Yeah I couldn't do that.

Yeah. It would be harsh wouldn't it? But we're likely to end up with the tail wagging the dog here.
What frustrates me is that we could have a relatively small percentage of the population simply destroying our economy by their wilful inaction. And by 'economy' I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about our ability as a society to function in a normal way.
Anyway, I don't think that will happen because it probably is too harsh and I reckon lots of people would find it unpalatable.
 
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440863) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440841) said:
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440838) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440828) said:
@willow said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440814) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440786) said:
I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

It's impossible at this point I'm afraid - you can't rely on the community to do the right thing during this pandemic - some don't believe in it, others think they are bullet proof, others want to visit their family regardless of the circumstances, others don't trust the government and thumb their nose at them at every opportunity...and the virus does not care - it will continue to spread regardless.

Then unfortunately I think we are screwed, because no country on earth has shown vaccination on its own to be enough, especially countries where there is a certain percentage of the population who refuse to get vaccinated (which looks to be the case in Australia). The US is heading back to 100,000 cases a day, highly-vaxxed countries like Israel are going back into lockdown. If we are not going to use our one natural advantage - that we are an island and can control our border - then we are going to be enduring these half-ar##ed lockdowns well into next year.

I think we'll get to a stage where there is a relatively high level of voluntary vaccination in this country. I'm still quietly confident that we will get close to the 80% mark once appropriate vaccines are available to all.
I think that because this issue has not become as politicised as it has in other countries (particularly the US), nor do we have the same percentage of population who are whacko conspiracy theorists. In the main, Australians are a fairly level headed bunch. (even including Parra supporters) and I think common sense will ultimately prevail.
When we do get to that stage, restrictions will ease and the unvaccinated will just have to take their chances. One thing that might motivate the recalcitrant is if all covid treatment for the vaccinated (and those with conditions preventing vaccination) was free, but the unvaccinated have to pay full freight for hospitalisation and medical treatment related to Covid.
Some may think that's unfair, but so is holding back the rest of society from moving on with life.

Yeah I couldn't do that.

Yeah. It would be harsh wouldn't it? But we're likely to end up with the tail wagging the dog here.
What frustrates me is that we could have a relatively small percentage of the population simply destroying our economy by their wilful inaction. And by 'economy' I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about our ability as a society to function in a normal way.
Anyway, I don't think that will happen because it probably is too harsh and I reckon lots of people would find it unpalatable.

We still provide health care for people who crash their car drink driving, even if that injures or kills others. It just goes against what our health care system is built on.
 
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440853) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440813) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440810) said:
@trusted_insider said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440806) said:
It would’ve ended up here regardless

It spreads by the movement of people. If you have a hard international border you limit the movement of the virus. New Zealand is not 'living with' delta, and nor should we aim to do that. If we go hard (which we're not doing) we can get rid of it.

People have a right to return home.

But why is this particular right elevated above others? The right to visit family, the right to go to a dear person's funeral or wedding, the right to visit a suffering relative in hospital, the right to work - these are all currently on hold, but some bloke who's been living overseas for 2 years with plenty of chances to come home earlier has an *unassailable* right to enter Australia and risk spreading a virus in a country that demonstrably can't cope with it. I know I'm in the minority on this and I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it. It just makes my blood boil.

because it's on a global level, if australia said no you can't return it means they are stateless and I believe it would be the same as when a nation refuses to have their criminal citizens returned, it is breaking both the 1954 Convention relating to the Status of Stateless Persons, and the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness.
there is no law been broken when the state says you can't attend a wedding or funeral, and definitely not a international convention
 
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440828) said:
@willow said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440814) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440786) said:
I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

It's impossible at this point I'm afraid - you can't rely on the community to do the right thing during this pandemic - some don't believe in it, others think they are bullet proof, others want to visit their family regardless of the circumstances, others don't trust the government and thumb their nose at them at every opportunity...and the virus does not care - it will continue to spread regardless.

Then unfortunately I think we are screwed, because no country on earth has shown vaccination on its own to be enough, especially countries where there is a certain percentage of the population who refuse to get vaccinated (which looks to be the case in Australia). The US is heading back to 100,000 cases a day, highly-vaxxed countries like Israel are going back into lockdown. If we are not going to use our one natural advantage - that we are an island and can control our border - then we are going to be enduring these half-ar##ed lockdowns well into next year.

The numbers are rising because of the unvaccinated. In those countries it’s now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
 
@trusted_insider said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440831) said:
No country has yet reached 80% fully vaccinated. Even Israel is only at ~65%.

At the point of 75-80% vax rate 'cases' becomes a meaningless statistic.

And being an island that no longer manufactures anything, we are reliant on international freight.

This is the biggest thing out of all this. The lack of local manufacturing is putting as at risk. It's a national security issue.

We don't build anything any more, we don't refine our own oil any more, completely beholden to everyone else.

The only thing we do produce locally are raw materials and food.
 
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440742) said:
@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440740) said:
@mighty_tiger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440715) said:
Add to this the single jab numbers are growing its the double jab numbers plus 2 weeks after that counts

It's been pretty obvious for a while that they weren't mentioning this issue. You do get good coverage after one dose. Dr Chant said she preferred 2 people with one dose each compared to 1 person with 2 doses.

The thing is we really need 2 doses plus 2 weeks for a large chunk of people.

I reckon we should be opening up at 50% fully vaccinated but I also think it should really be based on opportunity to get vaccinated. Give the opportunity to everyone. Give it 2 months. Open up.

It's going to be interesting. If we don't have high vaccination rates it's spreading and our ICU's are going to be under pressure.

I believe opening at 70% vaccination is madness with the current high numbers. Gladys should concentrate on eliminating the virus through tougher restrictions in those areas where the virus remains circulating.

The Sydney basin needed to be isolated no later than the Thursday prior to school holidays commencing. Instead we have have had other states and regions in lockdown and at this rate are probably going to be an outlier state until closer to the end of the year than the Grand Final.
 
@geo said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440883) said:
356 new cases .. wow

Tougher lockdowns in those areas where the virus is circulating - curfews, further restrict reasons for leaving the home and/or suburbs. Brad Hazzard calling out those who believe health orders do not apply to them. Good on him, A good dose of penal servitude wouldn't go astray.

Gladys quite rightly getting a hard time from the press.
 
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440885) said:
@geo said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440883) said:
356 new cases .. wow

Tougher lockdowns in those areas where the virus is circulating - curfews, further restrict reasons for leaving the home and/or suburbs. Brad Hazzard calling out those who believe health orders do not apply to them. Good on him, A good dose of penal servitude wouldn't go astray.

Yep. Start gaoling people who flagrantly disregard the laws.

I'm sure the sovereign citizen morons will get their backs up but we need compliance until sufficient numbers of people are vaccinated. Plus the case numbers need to drop in order to stop hospitals from being overwhelmed.
 
Anyone remember saying how everyone started breathing sighs of relief towards the end of last year saying how good it is that 2020 is over

Nec minit lol, 2021 worse than 2020
 
@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440897) said:
@geo said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440883) said:
356 new cases .. wow

It's a disaster. I'm laughing but it's not really funny.

I was to drop my son's 4x4 over for finishing touches on his alloy tray at Riverwood, in the Georges River and Canterbury-Bankstown LGAs. I just called and said no I am not bringing it over. I also said they should not be encouraging citizens from LGAs outside of the impacted areas to attend.
 
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