Coronavirus Outbreak

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@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440865) said:
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440863) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440841) said:
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440838) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440828) said:
@willow said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440814) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440786) said:
I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

It's impossible at this point I'm afraid - you can't rely on the community to do the right thing during this pandemic - some don't believe in it, others think they are bullet proof, others want to visit their family regardless of the circumstances, others don't trust the government and thumb their nose at them at every opportunity...and the virus does not care - it will continue to spread regardless.

Then unfortunately I think we are screwed, because no country on earth has shown vaccination on its own to be enough, especially countries where there is a certain percentage of the population who refuse to get vaccinated (which looks to be the case in Australia). The US is heading back to 100,000 cases a day, highly-vaxxed countries like Israel are going back into lockdown. If we are not going to use our one natural advantage - that we are an island and can control our border - then we are going to be enduring these half-ar##ed lockdowns well into next year.

I think we'll get to a stage where there is a relatively high level of voluntary vaccination in this country. I'm still quietly confident that we will get close to the 80% mark once appropriate vaccines are available to all.
I think that because this issue has not become as politicised as it has in other countries (particularly the US), nor do we have the same percentage of population who are whacko conspiracy theorists. In the main, Australians are a fairly level headed bunch. (even including Parra supporters) and I think common sense will ultimately prevail.
When we do get to that stage, restrictions will ease and the unvaccinated will just have to take their chances. One thing that might motivate the recalcitrant is if all covid treatment for the vaccinated (and those with conditions preventing vaccination) was free, but the unvaccinated have to pay full freight for hospitalisation and medical treatment related to Covid.
Some may think that's unfair, but so is holding back the rest of society from moving on with life.

Yeah I couldn't do that.

Yeah. It would be harsh wouldn't it? But we're likely to end up with the tail wagging the dog here.
What frustrates me is that we could have a relatively small percentage of the population simply destroying our economy by their wilful inaction. And by 'economy' I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about our ability as a society to function in a normal way.
Anyway, I don't think that will happen because it probably is too harsh and I reckon lots of people would find it unpalatable.

We still provide health care for people who crash their car drink driving, even if that injures or kills others. It just goes against what our health care system is built on.

Fair call.
 
As long as there are people who don't believe COVID exists, believe this this is crowb control / Tyranny ( it isn't) or disrespect the rules then we are fighting a losing battle imo.
 
This outbreak is persistent in part because of the Delta variant but there is a large part of the reason that is demographic.

This outbreak started in Bondi/Eastern Suburbs and then travelled to SW Sydney.I have been carrying out an exercise lately with daily reviews of case locations. Suburbs are added daily and they are all over Sydney, but suburbs come and go. THere are certain suburbs that remain constantly and never disappear. This is a community behaviour problem in one part of Sydney.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/nsw-covid-19-case-locations/case-locations
 
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440916) said:
This outbreak is persistent in part because of the Delta variant but there is a large part of the reason that is demographic.

This outbreak started in Bondi/Eastern Suburbs and then travelled to SW Sydney.I have been carrying out an exercise lately with daily reviews of case locations. Suburbs are added daily and they are all over Sydney, but suburbs come and go. THere are certain suburbs that remain constantly and never disappear. This is a community behaviour problem in one part of Sydney.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/nsw-covid-19-case-locations/case-locations

The same thing is happening in Melbourne. The epicentre of this outbreak is the same as it was last time - our North Western suburbs.

It's not about denigrating groups within our society, it needs to be more about understanding and addressing the behavioural drivers. Are they cultural? Are they breakdowns in communication? Are they economic? Etc
 
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440920) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440916) said:
This outbreak is persistent in part because of the Delta variant but there is a large part of the reason that is demographic.

This outbreak started in Bondi/Eastern Suburbs and then travelled to SW Sydney.I have been carrying out an exercise lately with daily reviews of case locations. Suburbs are added daily and they are all over Sydney, but suburbs come and go. THere are certain suburbs that remain constantly and never disappear. This is a community behaviour problem in one part of Sydney.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/nsw-covid-19-case-locations/case-locations

The same thing is happening in Melbourne. The epicentre of this outbreak is the same as it was last time - our North Western suburbs.

It's not about denigrating groups within our society, it needs to be more about understanding and addressing the behavioural drivers. Are they cultural? Are they breakdowns in communication? Are they economic? Etc

If Gladys had lockdown the Eastern Suburbs immediately as she did with the Northern Beaches, the outcome may be different.
 
Ill expand on what I was saying in my last post.

Ive seen many people stating that the outbreak is persistent because of the higher infectiousness of the Delta variant. This is obviously in part true. Delta has a much higher R value (basically the number of people it infects from one source) and therefore is more infectious. If the R is greater than 1, then by definition the rate of growth of infections is always exponential where the order of magnitude equals R.

The infection numbers are not growing exponentially, they are staying relatively stable, growing slightly but linearly not exponentially. To me this marks this as a community behaviour problem, not simply we are doomed due to Delta.
 
If anyone has been watching the Upper House hearing, the questions seeking answers from Kerry Chant as to whether she has recommended tougher restrictions in the community have been strongly blocked by Brad Hazzard.
 
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440944) said:
@finesttigers said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440942) said:
Mods, can you delete my last post,
IMMEDIATELY
just noticed a serious security breach

You can delete your own posts.

I tried a few times but could'nt
I'll try again
 
@finesttigers said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440953) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440944) said:
@finesttigers said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440942) said:
Mods, can you delete my last post,
IMMEDIATELY
just noticed a serious security breach

You can delete your own posts.

I tried a few times but could'nt
I'll try again

I already have
 
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440920) said:
It’s not about denigrating groups within our society, it needs to be more about understanding and addressing the behavioural drivers. Are they cultural? Are they breakdowns in communication?

I think a big part of it is the disinformation. I don't know how you stop it. The disinformation works in certain people and in certain communities. I think they view themselves as different and they don't trust the mainstream.

The disinformation perversely is mainstream or profitable business anyway. It's Fox News and Sky News and all sorts of alternative outlets. It makes money.

It's not just one demographic either which makes it so much harder.
 
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440861) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440853) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440813) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440810) said:
@trusted_insider said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440806) said:
It would’ve ended up here regardless

It spreads by the movement of people. If you have a hard international border you limit the movement of the virus. New Zealand is not 'living with' delta, and nor should we aim to do that. If we go hard (which we're not doing) we can get rid of it.

People have a right to return home.

But why is this particular right elevated above others? The right to visit family, the right to go to a dear person's funeral or wedding, the right to visit a suffering relative in hospital, the right to work - these are all currently on hold, but some bloke who's been living overseas for 2 years with plenty of chances to come home earlier has an *unassailable* right to enter Australia and risk spreading a virus in a country that demonstrably can't cope with it. I know I'm in the minority on this and I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it. It just makes my blood boil.

Mate, I do understand your point of view and I was close to adopting it at one point. I just don’t believe in turning our back on our citizens despite how stupid some of them are.

Rottnest island ?
 
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440923) said:
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440920) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440916) said:
This outbreak is persistent in part because of the Delta variant but there is a large part of the reason that is demographic.

This outbreak started in Bondi/Eastern Suburbs and then travelled to SW Sydney.I have been carrying out an exercise lately with daily reviews of case locations. Suburbs are added daily and they are all over Sydney, but suburbs come and go. THere are certain suburbs that remain constantly and never disappear. This is a community behaviour problem in one part of Sydney.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/nsw-covid-19-case-locations/case-locations

The same thing is happening in Melbourne. The epicentre of this outbreak is the same as it was last time - our North Western suburbs.

It's not about denigrating groups within our society, it needs to be more about understanding and addressing the behavioural drivers. Are they cultural? Are they breakdowns in communication? Are they economic? Etc

If Gladys had lockdown the Eastern Suburbs immediately as she did with the Northern Beaches, the outcome may be different.

Yeah. This one's for Gladys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LGeoLvNces&ab_channel=45RPMsinglesbyMikeEvans
 
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440958) said:
@finesttigers said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440953) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440944) said:
@finesttigers said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440942) said:
Mods, can you delete my last post,
IMMEDIATELY
just noticed a serious security breach

You can delete your own posts.

I tried a few times but could'nt
I'll try again

I already have

Thanks,
I wanted to reply and post a link about the **shortage of the fruit pickers** and also to say how reliant we are on overseas workers, but it seemed like the link gave access to my google account,
And this is not to mention someone downvoted me for this as well?
I honestly just don't know anymore.
 
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440923) said:
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440920) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440916) said:
This outbreak is persistent in part because of the Delta variant but there is a large part of the reason that is demographic.

This outbreak started in Bondi/Eastern Suburbs and then travelled to SW Sydney.I have been carrying out an exercise lately with daily reviews of case locations. Suburbs are added daily and they are all over Sydney, but suburbs come and go. THere are certain suburbs that remain constantly and never disappear. This is a community behaviour problem in one part of Sydney.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/nsw-covid-19-case-locations/case-locations

The same thing is happening in Melbourne. The epicentre of this outbreak is the same as it was last time - our North Western suburbs.

It's not about denigrating groups within our society, it needs to be more about understanding and addressing the behavioural drivers. Are they cultural? Are they breakdowns in communication? Are they economic? Etc

If Gladys had lockdown the Eastern Suburbs immediately as she did with the Northern Beaches, the outcome may be different.


Agreed,i certainly didnt enjoy being locked down over xmas but it stopped the spread.Gladys got it terribly wrong this time because she didnt want to annoy the electorate in the easten suburbs
 
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440865) said:
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440863) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440841) said:
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440838) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440828) said:
@willow said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440814) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440786) said:
I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

It's impossible at this point I'm afraid - you can't rely on the community to do the right thing during this pandemic - some don't believe in it, others think they are bullet proof, others want to visit their family regardless of the circumstances, others don't trust the government and thumb their nose at them at every opportunity...and the virus does not care - it will continue to spread regardless.

Then unfortunately I think we are screwed, because no country on earth has shown vaccination on its own to be enough, especially countries where there is a certain percentage of the population who refuse to get vaccinated (which looks to be the case in Australia). The US is heading back to 100,000 cases a day, highly-vaxxed countries like Israel are going back into lockdown. If we are not going to use our one natural advantage - that we are an island and can control our border - then we are going to be enduring these half-ar##ed lockdowns well into next year.

I think we'll get to a stage where there is a relatively high level of voluntary vaccination in this country. I'm still quietly confident that we will get close to the 80% mark once appropriate vaccines are available to all.
I think that because this issue has not become as politicised as it has in other countries (particularly the US), nor do we have the same percentage of population who are whacko conspiracy theorists. In the main, Australians are a fairly level headed bunch. (even including Parra supporters) and I think common sense will ultimately prevail.
When we do get to that stage, restrictions will ease and the unvaccinated will just have to take their chances. One thing that might motivate the recalcitrant is if all covid treatment for the vaccinated (and those with conditions preventing vaccination) was free, but the unvaccinated have to pay full freight for hospitalisation and medical treatment related to Covid.
Some may think that's unfair, but so is holding back the rest of society from moving on with life.

Yeah I couldn't do that.

Yeah. It would be harsh wouldn't it? But we're likely to end up with the tail wagging the dog here.
What frustrates me is that we could have a relatively small percentage of the population simply destroying our economy by their wilful inaction. And by 'economy' I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about our ability as a society to function in a normal way.
Anyway, I don't think that will happen because it probably is too harsh and I reckon lots of people would find it unpalatable.

We still provide health care for people who crash their car drink driving, even if that injures or kills others. It just goes against what our health care system is built on.

But their insurance is declined and they are held liable for the damage they caused
 
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440947) said:
If anyone has been watching the Upper House hearing, the questions seeking answers from Kerry Chant as to whether she has recommended tougher restrictions in the community have been strongly blocked by Brad Hazzard.


I am sure i have read somewhere that Dr Chant wanted a stricter lockdown in the Eastern Suburbs from the start only to be overruled by "Gold standard" Gladys.
 
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440947) said:
If anyone has been watching the Upper House hearing, the questions seeking answers from Kerry Chant as to whether she has recommended tougher restrictions in the community have been strongly blocked by Brad Hazzard.

Because no further lockdowns have nothing to do with health advice I am sure the health advice is to lock these problem LGAs down further it’s purely political !
This is happening in Qld the premier there is spending millions on polls to reveal what’s popular it’s got nothing to do with health advice .
Kerry Chant just had said she has made no recommendations about what percentage of vaccinations that will ease restrictions it’s political and they are making these decisions not medical advice .
 
@vince-farrar said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440976) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440865) said:
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440863) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440841) said:
@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440838) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440828) said:
@willow said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440814) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1440786) said:
I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

It's impossible at this point I'm afraid - you can't rely on the community to do the right thing during this pandemic - some don't believe in it, others think they are bullet proof, others want to visit their family regardless of the circumstances, others don't trust the government and thumb their nose at them at every opportunity...and the virus does not care - it will continue to spread regardless.

Then unfortunately I think we are screwed, because no country on earth has shown vaccination on its own to be enough, especially countries where there is a certain percentage of the population who refuse to get vaccinated (which looks to be the case in Australia). The US is heading back to 100,000 cases a day, highly-vaxxed countries like Israel are going back into lockdown. If we are not going to use our one natural advantage - that we are an island and can control our border - then we are going to be enduring these half-ar##ed lockdowns well into next year.

I think we'll get to a stage where there is a relatively high level of voluntary vaccination in this country. I'm still quietly confident that we will get close to the 80% mark once appropriate vaccines are available to all.
I think that because this issue has not become as politicised as it has in other countries (particularly the US), nor do we have the same percentage of population who are whacko conspiracy theorists. In the main, Australians are a fairly level headed bunch. (even including Parra supporters) and I think common sense will ultimately prevail.
When we do get to that stage, restrictions will ease and the unvaccinated will just have to take their chances. One thing that might motivate the recalcitrant is if all covid treatment for the vaccinated (and those with conditions preventing vaccination) was free, but the unvaccinated have to pay full freight for hospitalisation and medical treatment related to Covid.
Some may think that's unfair, but so is holding back the rest of society from moving on with life.

Yeah I couldn't do that.

Yeah. It would be harsh wouldn't it? But we're likely to end up with the tail wagging the dog here.
What frustrates me is that we could have a relatively small percentage of the population simply destroying our economy by their wilful inaction. And by 'economy' I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about our ability as a society to function in a normal way.
Anyway, I don't think that will happen because it probably is too harsh and I reckon lots of people would find it unpalatable.

We still provide health care for people who crash their car drink driving, even if that injures or kills others. It just goes against what our health care system is built on.

But their insurance is declined and they are held liable for the damage they caused

We still provide them with free health care.
 
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