Coronavirus Outbreak

[cochise]

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/ruby-princess-failed-to-declare-covid19-cases/video/acb251e16e73798d60c50c8f9d7d8f5e

I've already read that and all that happened after NSW Health declared them low risk, NSW Health were told they had patients in board that were displaying flu like symptoms and tested negative to the flu. They requested the swabs so they could test them for Covid 19 and then let them disembark without an onboard medical assessment. Yes the ship mislead the port authority but NSW Health had an opportunity to catch this and missed it.

Criminal investigation to commence. Discrepancy about Information provided by Carnival to Port Authority. Oversight by Coroner.

I saw that, but NSW Health had already missed the chance to stop this. The fact Carnival lied to the Port Authority is disgusting but that doesn't clear NSW Health that knew there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms and actually requested the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. They let the passengers off knowing they were waiting on covid 19 test results!

It is a significant issue as the provision of critical information including all
facts ensures a well informed decision is made. That also determines the response by NSW Health.

I hope there are criminal charges laid against Carnival. NSW Health had enough info to make a better decision than they one they made!

The decision NSW Health made was criminal in my opinion. All the govt wants to do now is brush over it. Let’s kick all the cruise ships out so we can’t stuff it up again. I also think that decision is criminal and inhumane, we are better than that. There are ways to handle the crew left on those ships and forcing them out into International Waters should not be one of them. A pure political decision of epic arse covering proportions.

If the information provided to the decision maker is allegedly misleading or untrue, and that decision informs the medical response, then the outcome will be poor. Channel 9 has been rabid in its pursuit of NSW Health. The ABC has a much more realistic report

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-05/nsw-police-investigate-ruby-princess-cruise-coronavirus-deaths/12123212

They were told there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms, that they had tested negative to the flu, NSW Health requested the swabs so they could test them for covid 19. Why did they let people off the ship if NSW Health itself was testing their swabs for Covid19?

It has been stated by Commissioner Fuller there was a clear discrepancy in the information provided. Look at the protocols (both State and Federal) to be followed in terms of what constitutes the potential Corvid 19 infection.

Are you employed by NSW Health?

 

[mike]

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/ruby-princess-failed-to-declare-covid19-cases/video/acb251e16e73798d60c50c8f9d7d8f5e

I've already read that and all that happened after NSW Health declared them low risk, NSW Health were told they had patients in board that were displaying flu like symptoms and tested negative to the flu. They requested the swabs so they could test them for Covid 19 and then let them disembark without an onboard medical assessment. Yes the ship mislead the port authority but NSW Health had an opportunity to catch this and missed it.

Criminal investigation to commence. Discrepancy about Information provided by Carnival to Port Authority. Oversight by Coroner.

I saw that, but NSW Health had already missed the chance to stop this. The fact Carnival lied to the Port Authority is disgusting but that doesn't clear NSW Health that knew there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms and actually requested the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. They let the passengers off knowing they were waiting on covid 19 test results!

It is a significant issue as the provision of critical information including all
facts ensures a well informed decision is made. That also determines the response by NSW Health.

I hope there are criminal charges laid against Carnival. NSW Health had enough info to make a better decision than they one they made!

The decision NSW Health made was criminal in my opinion. All the govt wants to do now is brush over it. Let’s kick all the cruise ships out so we can’t stuff it up again. I also think that decision is criminal and inhumane, we are better than that. There are ways to handle the crew left on those ships and forcing them out into International Waters should not be one of them. A pure political decision of epic arse covering proportions.

If the information provided to the decision maker is allegedly misleading or untrue, and that decision informs the medical response, then the outcome will be poor. Channel 9 has been rabid in its pursuit of NSW Health. The ABC has a much more realistic report

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-05/nsw-police-investigate-ruby-princess-cruise-coronavirus-deaths/12123212

NSW Health had ambulances on the wharf, they knew there were issues. There are no excuses for such incompetence.

Carnival informed NSW Ambulance Service Corvid 19. was not an issue! The ambulances were there to take two passengers to hospital, one with a back complaint and another with a heart issue.

Carnival would not have known, they did not test for it, only influenza. NSW Health failed to put two and two together, while asking for the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. NSW Health allowed passengers off the ship without any restrictions. Abject failure of judgement by NSW Health.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/ruby-princess-failed-to-declare-covid19-cases/video/acb251e16e73798d60c50c8f9d7d8f5e

I've already read that and all that happened after NSW Health declared them low risk, NSW Health were told they had patients in board that were displaying flu like symptoms and tested negative to the flu. They requested the swabs so they could test them for Covid 19 and then let them disembark without an onboard medical assessment. Yes the ship mislead the port authority but NSW Health had an opportunity to catch this and missed it.

Criminal investigation to commence. Discrepancy about Information provided by Carnival to Port Authority. Oversight by Coroner.

I saw that, but NSW Health had already missed the chance to stop this. The fact Carnival lied to the Port Authority is disgusting but that doesn't clear NSW Health that knew there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms and actually requested the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. They let the passengers off knowing they were waiting on covid 19 test results!

It is a significant issue as the provision of critical information including all
facts ensures a well informed decision is made. That also determines the response by NSW Health.

I hope there are criminal charges laid against Carnival. NSW Health had enough info to make a better decision than they one they made!

The decision NSW Health made was criminal in my opinion. All the govt wants to do now is brush over it. Let’s kick all the cruise ships out so we can’t stuff it up again. I also think that decision is criminal and inhumane, we are better than that. There are ways to handle the crew left on those ships and forcing them out into International Waters should not be one of them. A pure political decision of epic arse covering proportions.

If the information provided to the decision maker is allegedly misleading or untrue, and that decision informs the medical response, then the outcome will be poor. Channel 9 has been rabid in its pursuit of NSW Health. The ABC has a much more realistic report

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-05/nsw-police-investigate-ruby-princess-cruise-coronavirus-deaths/12123212

NSW Health had ambulances on the wharf, they knew there were issues. There are no excuses for such incompetence.

Carnival informed NSW Ambulance Service Corvid 19. was not an issue! The ambulances were there to take two passengers to hospital, one with a back complaint and another with a heart issue.

Carnival would not have known, they did not test for it, only influenza. NSW Health failed to put two and two together, while asking for the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. NSW Health allowed passengers off the ship without any restrictions. Abject failure of judgement by NSW Health.

The Police Commissioner stated there was clear evidence Corvid19 came off the ship in NZ. Therefore to tell authorities in another country it was not an issue is why we have this debacle and new investigation.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/ruby-princess-failed-to-declare-covid19-cases/video/acb251e16e73798d60c50c8f9d7d8f5e

I've already read that and all that happened after NSW Health declared them low risk, NSW Health were told they had patients in board that were displaying flu like symptoms and tested negative to the flu. They requested the swabs so they could test them for Covid 19 and then let them disembark without an onboard medical assessment. Yes the ship mislead the port authority but NSW Health had an opportunity to catch this and missed it.

Criminal investigation to commence. Discrepancy about Information provided by Carnival to Port Authority. Oversight by Coroner.

I saw that, but NSW Health had already missed the chance to stop this. The fact Carnival lied to the Port Authority is disgusting but that doesn't clear NSW Health that knew there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms and actually requested the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. They let the passengers off knowing they were waiting on covid 19 test results!

It is a significant issue as the provision of critical information including all
facts ensures a well informed decision is made. That also determines the response by NSW Health.

I hope there are criminal charges laid against Carnival. NSW Health had enough info to make a better decision than they one they made!

The decision NSW Health made was criminal in my opinion. All the govt wants to do now is brush over it. Let’s kick all the cruise ships out so we can’t stuff it up again. I also think that decision is criminal and inhumane, we are better than that. There are ways to handle the crew left on those ships and forcing them out into International Waters should not be one of them. A pure political decision of epic arse covering proportions.

If the information provided to the decision maker is allegedly misleading or untrue, and that decision informs the medical response, then the outcome will be poor. Channel 9 has been rabid in its pursuit of NSW Health. The ABC has a much more realistic report

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-05/nsw-police-investigate-ruby-princess-cruise-coronavirus-deaths/12123212

They were told there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms, that they had tested negative to the flu, NSW Health requested the swabs so they could test them for covid 19. Why did they let people off the ship if NSW Health itself was testing their swabs for Covid19?

It has been stated by Commissioner Fuller there was a clear discrepancy in the information provided. Look at the protocols (both State and Federal) to be followed in terms of what constitutes the potential Corvid 19 infection.

Are you employed by NSW Health?

No.

 

[hobbo1]

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/ruby-princess-failed-to-declare-covid19-cases/video/acb251e16e73798d60c50c8f9d7d8f5e

I've already read that and all that happened after NSW Health declared them low risk, NSW Health were told they had patients in board that were displaying flu like symptoms and tested negative to the flu. They requested the swabs so they could test them for Covid 19 and then let them disembark without an onboard medical assessment. Yes the ship mislead the port authority but NSW Health had an opportunity to catch this and missed it.

Criminal investigation to commence. Discrepancy about Information provided by Carnival to Port Authority. Oversight by Coroner.

I saw that, but NSW Health had already missed the chance to stop this. The fact Carnival lied to the Port Authority is disgusting but that doesn't clear NSW Health that knew there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms and actually requested the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. They let the passengers off knowing they were waiting on covid 19 test results!

It is a significant issue as the provision of critical information including all
facts ensures a well informed decision is made. That also determines the response by NSW Health.

I hope there are criminal charges laid against Carnival. NSW Health had enough info to make a better decision than they one they made!

The decision NSW Health made was criminal in my opinion. All the govt wants to do now is brush over it. Let’s kick all the cruise ships out so we can’t stuff it up again. I also think that decision is criminal and inhumane, we are better than that. There are ways to handle the crew left on those ships and forcing them out into International Waters should not be one of them. A pure political decision of epic arse covering proportions.

If the information provided to the decision maker is allegedly misleading or untrue, and that decision informs the medical response, then the outcome will be poor. Channel 9 has been rabid in its pursuit of NSW Health. The ABC has a much more realistic report

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-05/nsw-police-investigate-ruby-princess-cruise-coronavirus-deaths/12123212

They were told there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms, that they had tested negative to the flu, NSW Health requested the swabs so they could test them for covid 19. Why did they let people off the ship if NSW Health itself was testing their swabs for Covid19?

It has been stated by Commissioner Fuller there was a clear discrepancy in the information provided. Look at the protocols (both State and Federal) to be followed in terms of what constitutes the potential Corvid 19 infection.

Are you employed by NSW Health?

No.

Border force ?

 

[happy_tiger]

We should wait until the findings of the Police review are known. I believe there is an issue surrounding communications from the ship. Also personal responsibility is an issue.

Personal responsibility is a separate issue though, NSW Health stuffed this up!

The Minister should go for defending those that made the decision to allow the passengers to disembark and also for not setting the correct process and procedures. Also for trying to cover up and blame Boarder Force when it was NSW Health. Those that made the incorrect decision should also go. Their judgment cannot be relied upon. I have zero confidence in NSW Health.

As a whole I think NSW health will do a very good job dealing with this crisis, I think we see we actually have a very good health system after this. I think this stuff up came from an individual under stress making a poor decision. Over the coming months we will see some of our front line medical people make some mistake under immense pressure and I think we need to support them as much as we can as they are about to be smashed for the next 3 months!


I could be totally wrong, but I actually think Australia is going to come out of this better than most countries. If we can keep at or improve the current rates of new cases (approx or less than 200 per day) that should on average be only adding less than 5 - 10 cases to hospital a day. I think that over the next 30 days we will see the peak hitting the hospitals as that large surge washes through, but as individual cases recover (or unfortunately pass away) we should start to see the strain ease on the health system. Based on 5 to 8 days for symptoms to kick in for serious cases, the peak of worst cases should be hitting the hospitals now (5-8 days since the new cases started to dip). Then based on 30 days for recovery or death then we should see the health system strain to start easing.

Im no immunologist or health care expert, simply extrapolating the maths. I think it may be possible that we start to come out of this in a month. Hope Im right.

I agree, I actually see the decisions we make when this starts to ease as important as the decisions we are making now!


I agree. Its hard to envisage an endgame for this. Even if we could flick a magic switch and stop the virus in Australia, the whole of the world is going to be a potential contagion. I can imagine a situation where we are almost able to go back to semi normal life but our borders closed for years.

Closing our borders for years would be great IMO, Australia needs to put a handbrake on immigration for a bit IMO. Cities are straining as it is, a forced go-slow would be a benefit more than a hinderence.

Aussie manufacturing would pick up and there’s no better holiday destination like our own backyard imo


Why would it impact Aussie manufacturing? Freight isnt affected.

We wouldn’t have to import from OS
We could create more jobs in our own backyard..
Still need to import cars and electronic goods though

We will still import as it is cheaper!

Not necessarily..
I think we all earn too much here ..

That is unlikely to change!

It needs to

It won't though has you would have mass defaults on mortgages. If anything all the stimulus will put massive pressure on inflation and we will end up earning more!

Only 35% of folks have mortgages so I’m told .
How’s your kid / my kids gonna be able to afford a mortgage ..
We earn too much and we pay too much ..

So your plan to fix that is have the majority of people who currently have a mortgage to lose theirs? good plan!

They’ll be 40 -45 year mortgages soon
You’ll be right !

Move to Gladstone ..cheap as all hell

Rather live in Wuhan mate ?

That can be arranged

Willow I've got another one #permanentcooler

@hobbo1 back to page 198 ..see who likes my idea .....

nananana nananana heyyyyyy....goodbye

 

[cochise]

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/ruby-princess-failed-to-declare-covid19-cases/video/acb251e16e73798d60c50c8f9d7d8f5e

I've already read that and all that happened after NSW Health declared them low risk, NSW Health were told they had patients in board that were displaying flu like symptoms and tested negative to the flu. They requested the swabs so they could test them for Covid 19 and then let them disembark without an onboard medical assessment. Yes the ship mislead the port authority but NSW Health had an opportunity to catch this and missed it.

Criminal investigation to commence. Discrepancy about Information provided by Carnival to Port Authority. Oversight by Coroner.

I saw that, but NSW Health had already missed the chance to stop this. The fact Carnival lied to the Port Authority is disgusting but that doesn't clear NSW Health that knew there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms and actually requested the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. They let the passengers off knowing they were waiting on covid 19 test results!

It is a significant issue as the provision of critical information including all
facts ensures a well informed decision is made. That also determines the response by NSW Health.

I hope there are criminal charges laid against Carnival. NSW Health had enough info to make a better decision than they one they made!

The decision NSW Health made was criminal in my opinion. All the govt wants to do now is brush over it. Let’s kick all the cruise ships out so we can’t stuff it up again. I also think that decision is criminal and inhumane, we are better than that. There are ways to handle the crew left on those ships and forcing them out into International Waters should not be one of them. A pure political decision of epic arse covering proportions.

If the information provided to the decision maker is allegedly misleading or untrue, and that decision informs the medical response, then the outcome will be poor. Channel 9 has been rabid in its pursuit of NSW Health. The ABC has a much more realistic report

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-05/nsw-police-investigate-ruby-princess-cruise-coronavirus-deaths/12123212

NSW Health had ambulances on the wharf, they knew there were issues. There are no excuses for such incompetence.

Carnival informed NSW Ambulance Service Corvid 19. was not an issue! The ambulances were there to take two passengers to hospital, one with a back complaint and another with a heart issue.

Carnival would not have known, they did not test for it, only influenza. NSW Health failed to put two and two together, while asking for the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. NSW Health allowed passengers off the ship without any restrictions. Abject failure of judgement by NSW Health.

The Police Commissioner stated there was clear evidence Corvid19 came off the ship in NZ. Therefore to tell authorities in another country it was not an issue is why we have this debacle and new investigation.

No one here is arguing that Carnival are blameless, Carnival appear to have been criminally misleading in the info they provided Australian agencies. That does not absolve NSW Health of blame, there was enough info to put restrictions in place!

 

[happy_tiger]

We should wait until the findings of the Police review are known. I believe there is an issue surrounding communications from the ship. Also personal responsibility is an issue.

Personal responsibility is a separate issue though, NSW Health stuffed this up!

The Minister should go for defending those that made the decision to allow the passengers to disembark and also for not setting the correct process and procedures. Also for trying to cover up and blame Boarder Force when it was NSW Health. Those that made the incorrect decision should also go. Their judgment cannot be relied upon. I have zero confidence in NSW Health.

As a whole I think NSW health will do a very good job dealing with this crisis, I think we see we actually have a very good health system after this. I think this stuff up came from an individual under stress making a poor decision. Over the coming months we will see some of our front line medical people make some mistake under immense pressure and I think we need to support them as much as we can as they are about to be smashed for the next 3 months!


I could be totally wrong, but I actually think Australia is going to come out of this better than most countries. If we can keep at or improve the current rates of new cases (approx or less than 200 per day) that should on average be only adding less than 5 - 10 cases to hospital a day. I think that over the next 30 days we will see the peak hitting the hospitals as that large surge washes through, but as individual cases recover (or unfortunately pass away) we should start to see the strain ease on the health system. Based on 5 to 8 days for symptoms to kick in for serious cases, the peak of worst cases should be hitting the hospitals now (5-8 days since the new cases started to dip). Then based on 30 days for recovery or death then we should see the health system strain to start easing.

Im no immunologist or health care expert, simply extrapolating the maths. I think it may be possible that we start to come out of this in a month. Hope Im right.

I agree, I actually see the decisions we make when this starts to ease as important as the decisions we are making now!


I agree. Its hard to envisage an endgame for this. Even if we could flick a magic switch and stop the virus in Australia, the whole of the world is going to be a potential contagion. I can imagine a situation where we are almost able to go back to semi normal life but our borders closed for years.

Closing our borders for years would be great IMO, Australia needs to put a handbrake on immigration for a bit IMO. Cities are straining as it is, a forced go-slow would be a benefit more than a hinderence.

Aussie manufacturing would pick up and there’s no better holiday destination like our own backyard imo


Why would it impact Aussie manufacturing? Freight isnt affected.

We wouldn’t have to import from OS
We could create more jobs in our own backyard..
Still need to import cars and electronic goods though

We will still import as it is cheaper!

Not necessarily..
I think we all earn too much here ..

That is unlikely to change!

It needs to

It won't though has you would have mass defaults on mortgages. If anything all the stimulus will put massive pressure on inflation and we will end up earning more!

Only 35% of folks have mortgages so I’m told .
How’s your kid / my kids gonna be able to afford a mortgage ..
We earn too much and we pay too much ..

So your plan to fix that is have the majority of people who currently have a mortgage to lose theirs? good plan!

They’ll be 40 -45 year mortgages soon
You’ll be right !

Move to Gladstone ..cheap as all hell

Rather live in Wuhan mate ?

That can be arranged

Willow I've got another one #permanentcooler

@hobbo1 back to page 198 ..see who likes my idea .....

nananana nananana heyyyyyy....goodbye

What are you babbling about ?
You should get tested ?

Permanent cooler ...@willow agrees ......on ya bike Pom

 

[Fade.To.Black]

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/ruby-princess-failed-to-declare-covid19-cases/video/acb251e16e73798d60c50c8f9d7d8f5e

I've already read that and all that happened after NSW Health declared them low risk, NSW Health were told they had patients in board that were displaying flu like symptoms and tested negative to the flu. They requested the swabs so they could test them for Covid 19 and then let them disembark without an onboard medical assessment. Yes the ship mislead the port authority but NSW Health had an opportunity to catch this and missed it.

Criminal investigation to commence. Discrepancy about Information provided by Carnival to Port Authority. Oversight by Coroner.

I saw that, but NSW Health had already missed the chance to stop this. The fact Carnival lied to the Port Authority is disgusting but that doesn't clear NSW Health that knew there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms and actually requested the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. They let the passengers off knowing they were waiting on covid 19 test results!

It is a significant issue as the provision of critical information including all
facts ensures a well informed decision is made. That also determines the response by NSW Health.

I hope there are criminal charges laid against Carnival. NSW Health had enough info to make a better decision than they one they made!

The decision NSW Health made was criminal in my opinion. All the govt wants to do now is brush over it. Let’s kick all the cruise ships out so we can’t stuff it up again. I also think that decision is criminal and inhumane, we are better than that. There are ways to handle the crew left on those ships and forcing them out into International Waters should not be one of them. A pure political decision of epic arse covering proportions.

If the information provided to the decision maker is allegedly misleading or untrue, and that decision informs the medical response, then the outcome will be poor. Channel 9 has been rabid in its pursuit of NSW Health. The ABC has a much more realistic report

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-05/nsw-police-investigate-ruby-princess-cruise-coronavirus-deaths/12123212

NSW Health had ambulances on the wharf, they knew there were issues. There are no excuses for such incompetence.

Carnival informed NSW Ambulance Service Corvid 19. was not an issue! The ambulances were there to take two passengers to hospital, one with a back complaint and another with a heart issue.

Carnival would not have known, they did not test for it, only influenza. NSW Health failed to put two and two together, while asking for the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. NSW Health allowed passengers off the ship without any restrictions. Abject failure of judgement by NSW Health.

The Police Commissioner stated there was clear evidence Corvid19 came off the ship in NZ. Therefore to tell authorities in another country it was not an issue is why we have this debacle and new investigation.

No one here is arguing that Carnival are blameless, Carnival appear to have been criminally misleading in the info they provided Australian agencies. That does not absolve NSW Health of blame, there was enough info to put restrictions in place!

Sadly, all parties at fault in this tragic debacle will walk away scot-free. It will continually get brushed over and swept under the carpet until it is forgotten about by everyone not directly affected.

 

[Fade.To.Black]

Just reading an article on aussie politicians talking tough in regards to "economic consequences" towards China.....

People on here have more knowledge on this than I do, but how would the australian government start getting assets back that were sold to China? Like farms, mines etc and would it be possible? What would the ramifications be? good thing or bad thing for Aussies? Would be be better off insulating ourselves in some ways like this? Be more self sufficient? Or would it backfire and spell disaster??

Just spitballing for discussion......

Hopefully there are massive economic consequences for China worldwide. There needs to be some form of retribution for the way they have behaved and are still behaving (with the re-opening of those wet markets). They don't learn and really don't seem to care.

It I not so much the wet markets themselves, its actually more the live animal trade that has been allowed to occur in those wet markets!

The live animal trade is beyond barbaric.
Eating bats and vermin etc by choice is also very disturbing and can cause the sorts of tragedy that we are now suffering through.

 

[Fade.To.Black]

Just reading an article on aussie politicians talking tough in regards to "economic consequences" towards China.....

People on here have more knowledge on this than I do, but how would the australian government start getting assets back that were sold to China? Like farms, mines etc and would it be possible? What would the ramifications be? good thing or bad thing for Aussies? Would be be better off insulating ourselves in some ways like this? Be more self sufficient? Or would it backfire and spell disaster??

Just spitballing for discussion......

Hopefully there are massive economic consequences for China worldwide. There needs to be some form of retribution for the way they have behaved and are still behaving (with the re-opening of those wet markets). They don't learn and really don't seem to care.

It's the not caring which is the hardest part. they really couldn't care about anyone else.....

Hit the selfish bastards in the hip pocket, then they'll sit up and take notice. Hit them as hard as possible.

 

[cochise]

Just reading an article on aussie politicians talking tough in regards to "economic consequences" towards China.....

People on here have more knowledge on this than I do, but how would the australian government start getting assets back that were sold to China? Like farms, mines etc and would it be possible? What would the ramifications be? good thing or bad thing for Aussies? Would be be better off insulating ourselves in some ways like this? Be more self sufficient? Or would it backfire and spell disaster??

Just spitballing for discussion......

Hopefully there are massive economic consequences for China worldwide. There needs to be some form of retribution for the way they have behaved and are still behaving (with the re-opening of those wet markets). They don't learn and really don't seem to care.

It I not so much the wet markets themselves, its actually more the live animal trade that has been allowed to occur in those wet markets!

The live animal trade is beyond barbaric.
Eating bats and vermin etc by choice is also very disturbing and can cause the sorts of tragedy that we are now suffering through.

The virus didn't start because of someone eating a bat, it is a zoonotic virus that was transferred from live animals being kept at the wet market in Wuhan, it started in bats but was transferred to at least one other species before making the jump to humans, even after that initial jump to humans it probable took some time to mutate to enable transfer from human to human! The 1st number of cases were probably all caught from animals.

 

[OzLuke]

Just reading an article on aussie politicians talking tough in regards to "economic consequences" towards China.....

People on here have more knowledge on this than I do, but how would the australian government start getting assets back that were sold to China? Like farms, mines etc and would it be possible? What would the ramifications be? good thing or bad thing for Aussies? Would be be better off insulating ourselves in some ways like this? Be more self sufficient? Or would it backfire and spell disaster??

Just spitballing for discussion......

Hopefully there are massive economic consequences for China worldwide. There needs to be some form of retribution for the way they have behaved and are still behaving (with the re-opening of those wet markets). They don't learn and really don't seem to care.

It's the not caring which is the hardest part. they really couldn't care about anyone else.....

Hit the selfish bastards in the hip pocket, then they'll sit up and take notice. Hit them as hard as possible.

this is where the government should start looking at internalizing things we get from china, and stop sending things we could use here

 

[cochise]

Just reading an article on aussie politicians talking tough in regards to "economic consequences" towards China.....

People on here have more knowledge on this than I do, but how would the australian government start getting assets back that were sold to China? Like farms, mines etc and would it be possible? What would the ramifications be? good thing or bad thing for Aussies? Would be be better off insulating ourselves in some ways like this? Be more self sufficient? Or would it backfire and spell disaster??

Just spitballing for discussion......

Hopefully there are massive economic consequences for China worldwide. There needs to be some form of retribution for the way they have behaved and are still behaving (with the re-opening of those wet markets). They don't learn and really don't seem to care.

It's the not caring which is the hardest part. they really couldn't care about anyone else.....

Hit the selfish bastards in the hip pocket, then they'll sit up and take notice. Hit them as hard as possible.

this is where the government should start looking at internalizing things we get from china, and stop sending things we could use here

I agree but there is too much money to be made there so it is not going to happen though

 

[pawsandclaws1]

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/ruby-princess-failed-to-declare-covid19-cases/video/acb251e16e73798d60c50c8f9d7d8f5e

I've already read that and all that happened after NSW Health declared them low risk, NSW Health were told they had patients in board that were displaying flu like symptoms and tested negative to the flu. They requested the swabs so they could test them for Covid 19 and then let them disembark without an onboard medical assessment. Yes the ship mislead the port authority but NSW Health had an opportunity to catch this and missed it.

Criminal investigation to commence. Discrepancy about Information provided by Carnival to Port Authority. Oversight by Coroner.

I saw that, but NSW Health had already missed the chance to stop this. The fact Carnival lied to the Port Authority is disgusting but that doesn't clear NSW Health that knew there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms and actually requested the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. They let the passengers off knowing they were waiting on covid 19 test results!

It is a significant issue as the provision of critical information including all
facts ensures a well informed decision is made. That also determines the response by NSW Health.

I hope there are criminal charges laid against Carnival. NSW Health had enough info to make a better decision than they one they made!

The decision NSW Health made was criminal in my opinion. All the govt wants to do now is brush over it. Let’s kick all the cruise ships out so we can’t stuff it up again. I also think that decision is criminal and inhumane, we are better than that. There are ways to handle the crew left on those ships and forcing them out into International Waters should not be one of them. A pure political decision of epic arse covering proportions.

If the information provided to the decision maker is allegedly misleading or untrue, and that decision informs the medical response, then the outcome will be poor. Channel 9 has been rabid in its pursuit of NSW Health. The ABC has a much more realistic report

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-05/nsw-police-investigate-ruby-princess-cruise-coronavirus-deaths/12123212

NSW Health had ambulances on the wharf, they knew there were issues. There are no excuses for such incompetence.

Carnival informed NSW Ambulance Service Corvid 19. was not an issue! The ambulances were there to take two passengers to hospital, one with a back complaint and another with a heart issue.

Carnival would not have known, they did not test for it, only influenza. NSW Health failed to put two and two together, while asking for the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. NSW Health allowed passengers off the ship without any restrictions. Abject failure of judgement by NSW Health.

The Police Commissioner stated there was clear evidence Corvid19 came off the ship in NZ. Therefore to tell authorities in another country it was not an issue is why we have this debacle and new investigation.

No one here is arguing that Carnival are blameless, Carnival appear to have been criminally misleading in the info they provided Australian agencies. That does not absolve NSW Health of blame, there was enough info to put restrictions in place!

There were Commonwealth and State protocols in place. Had correct info been communicated by Carnival, this would have triggered a different response. It would not change the fait of passengers as this was determined when they chose to cruise.

Some of the investigative journalists should dig to ascertain if the virus was brought into the ship from other Carnival ships by crew transfers or via inadequate cleaning.

 

[cochise]

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/ruby-princess-failed-to-declare-covid19-cases/video/acb251e16e73798d60c50c8f9d7d8f5e

I've already read that and all that happened after NSW Health declared them low risk, NSW Health were told they had patients in board that were displaying flu like symptoms and tested negative to the flu. They requested the swabs so they could test them for Covid 19 and then let them disembark without an onboard medical assessment. Yes the ship mislead the port authority but NSW Health had an opportunity to catch this and missed it.

Criminal investigation to commence. Discrepancy about Information provided by Carnival to Port Authority. Oversight by Coroner.

I saw that, but NSW Health had already missed the chance to stop this. The fact Carnival lied to the Port Authority is disgusting but that doesn't clear NSW Health that knew there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms and actually requested the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. They let the passengers off knowing they were waiting on covid 19 test results!

It is a significant issue as the provision of critical information including all
facts ensures a well informed decision is made. That also determines the response by NSW Health.

I hope there are criminal charges laid against Carnival. NSW Health had enough info to make a better decision than they one they made!

The decision NSW Health made was criminal in my opinion. All the govt wants to do now is brush over it. Let’s kick all the cruise ships out so we can’t stuff it up again. I also think that decision is criminal and inhumane, we are better than that. There are ways to handle the crew left on those ships and forcing them out into International Waters should not be one of them. A pure political decision of epic arse covering proportions.

If the information provided to the decision maker is allegedly misleading or untrue, and that decision informs the medical response, then the outcome will be poor. Channel 9 has been rabid in its pursuit of NSW Health. The ABC has a much more realistic report

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-05/nsw-police-investigate-ruby-princess-cruise-coronavirus-deaths/12123212

NSW Health had ambulances on the wharf, they knew there were issues. There are no excuses for such incompetence.

Carnival informed NSW Ambulance Service Corvid 19. was not an issue! The ambulances were there to take two passengers to hospital, one with a back complaint and another with a heart issue.

Carnival would not have known, they did not test for it, only influenza. NSW Health failed to put two and two together, while asking for the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. NSW Health allowed passengers off the ship without any restrictions. Abject failure of judgement by NSW Health.

The Police Commissioner stated there was clear evidence Corvid19 came off the ship in NZ. Therefore to tell authorities in another country it was not an issue is why we have this debacle and new investigation.

No one here is arguing that Carnival are blameless, Carnival appear to have been criminally misleading in the info they provided Australian agencies. That does not absolve NSW Health of blame, there was enough info to put restrictions in place!

There were Commonwealth and State protocols in place. Had correct info been communicated by Carnival, this would have triggered a different response. It would not change the fait of passengers as this was determined when they chose to cruise.

Some of the investigative journalists should dig to ascertain if the virus was brought into the ship from other Carnival ships by crew transfers or via inadequate cleaning.

Then the protocols were wrong, if you are conducting tests for covid 19 and the protocol is to let those people off a ship, into taxi, on public transport, into hotels, onto planes, into regional areas with low transmission then who ever wrote and approved those protocols are as much to blame as the people on the Ruby Princess that were hiding info. This may rightly end Carnival cruises an they deserve it, but other mistakes were made too. For some reason you only want to address one issue and not the rest!

 

[Fade.To.Black]

Just reading an article on aussie politicians talking tough in regards to "economic consequences" towards China.....

People on here have more knowledge on this than I do, but how would the australian government start getting assets back that were sold to China? Like farms, mines etc and would it be possible? What would the ramifications be? good thing or bad thing for Aussies? Would be be better off insulating ourselves in some ways like this? Be more self sufficient? Or would it backfire and spell disaster??

Just spitballing for discussion......

Hopefully there are massive economic consequences for China worldwide. There needs to be some form of retribution for the way they have behaved and are still behaving (with the re-opening of those wet markets). They don't learn and really don't seem to care.

It's the not caring which is the hardest part. they really couldn't care about anyone else.....

Hit the selfish bastards in the hip pocket, then they'll sit up and take notice. Hit them as hard as possible.

this is where the government should start looking at internalizing things we get from china, and stop sending things we could use here

I agree but there is too much money to be made there so it is not going to happen though

Yep. As usual greed conquers everything. Even morality.

 

[Fade.To.Black]

Just reading an article on aussie politicians talking tough in regards to "economic consequences" towards China.....

People on here have more knowledge on this than I do, but how would the australian government start getting assets back that were sold to China? Like farms, mines etc and would it be possible? What would the ramifications be? good thing or bad thing for Aussies? Would be be better off insulating ourselves in some ways like this? Be more self sufficient? Or would it backfire and spell disaster??

Just spitballing for discussion......

Hopefully there are massive economic consequences for China worldwide. There needs to be some form of retribution for the way they have behaved and are still behaving (with the re-opening of those wet markets). They don't learn and really don't seem to care.

It I not so much the wet markets themselves, its actually more the live animal trade that has been allowed to occur in those wet markets!

The live animal trade is beyond barbaric.
Eating bats and vermin etc by choice is also very disturbing and can cause the sorts of tragedy that we are now suffering through.

The virus didn't start because of someone eating a bat, it is a zoonotic virus that was transferred from live animals being kept at the wet market in Wuhan, it started in bats but was transferred to at least one other species before making the jump to humans, even after that initial jump to humans it probable took some time to mutate to enable transfer from human to human! The 1st number of cases were probably all caught from animals.

Pretty safe bet that bats get eaten in China.

 

[Snake]

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/ruby-princess-failed-to-declare-covid19-cases/video/acb251e16e73798d60c50c8f9d7d8f5e

I've already read that and all that happened after NSW Health declared them low risk, NSW Health were told they had patients in board that were displaying flu like symptoms and tested negative to the flu. They requested the swabs so they could test them for Covid 19 and then let them disembark without an onboard medical assessment. Yes the ship mislead the port authority but NSW Health had an opportunity to catch this and missed it.

Criminal investigation to commence. Discrepancy about Information provided by Carnival to Port Authority. Oversight by Coroner.

I saw that, but NSW Health had already missed the chance to stop this. The fact Carnival lied to the Port Authority is disgusting but that doesn't clear NSW Health that knew there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms and actually requested the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. They let the passengers off knowing they were waiting on covid 19 test results!

It is a significant issue as the provision of critical information including all
facts ensures a well informed decision is made. That also determines the response by NSW Health.

I hope there are criminal charges laid against Carnival. NSW Health had enough info to make a better decision than they one they made!

The decision NSW Health made was criminal in my opinion. All the govt wants to do now is brush over it. Let’s kick all the cruise ships out so we can’t stuff it up again. I also think that decision is criminal and inhumane, we are better than that. There are ways to handle the crew left on those ships and forcing them out into International Waters should not be one of them. A pure political decision of epic arse covering proportions.

If the information provided to the decision maker is allegedly misleading or untrue, and that decision informs the medical response, then the outcome will be poor. Channel 9 has been rabid in its pursuit of NSW Health. The ABC has a much more realistic report

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-05/nsw-police-investigate-ruby-princess-cruise-coronavirus-deaths/12123212

NSW Health had ambulances on the wharf, they knew there were issues. There are no excuses for such incompetence.

Carnival informed NSW Ambulance Service Corvid 19. was not an issue! The ambulances were there to take two passengers to hospital, one with a back complaint and another with a heart issue.

Carnival would not have known, they did not test for it, only influenza. NSW Health failed to put two and two together, while asking for the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. NSW Health allowed passengers off the ship without any restrictions. Abject failure of judgement by NSW Health.

The Police Commissioner stated there was clear evidence Corvid19 came off the ship in NZ. Therefore to tell authorities in another country it was not an issue is why we have this debacle and new investigation.

No one here is arguing that Carnival are blameless, Carnival appear to have been criminally misleading in the info they provided Australian agencies. That does not absolve NSW Health of blame, there was enough info to put restrictions in place!

There were Commonwealth and State protocols in place. Had correct info been communicated by Carnival, this would have triggered a different response. It would not change the fait of passengers as this was determined when they chose to cruise.

Some of the investigative journalists should dig to ascertain if the virus was brought into the ship from other Carnival ships by crew transfers or via inadequate cleaning.

Then the protocols were wrong, if you are conducting tests for covid 19 and the protocol is to let those people off a ship, into taxi, on public transport, into hotels, onto planes, into regional areas with low transmission then who ever wrote and approved those protocols are as much to blame as the people on the Ruby Princess that were hiding info. This may rightly end Carnival cruises an they deserve it, but other mistakes were made too. For some reason you only want to address one issue and not the rest!

Was the virus on board prior to leaving .. not cleaned properly or some of the crew already infected and known ? This obviously does not make the decision about docking any easier to stomach ... which ever way this ship was a floating morgue , I hate to think what would of happened if they did not dock and left at sea , the Japanese experience should have had red flags every where . Imo there would of been a lot more deaths if they did not dock !

 

[cochise]

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/ruby-princess-failed-to-declare-covid19-cases/video/acb251e16e73798d60c50c8f9d7d8f5e

I've already read that and all that happened after NSW Health declared them low risk, NSW Health were told they had patients in board that were displaying flu like symptoms and tested negative to the flu. They requested the swabs so they could test them for Covid 19 and then let them disembark without an onboard medical assessment. Yes the ship mislead the port authority but NSW Health had an opportunity to catch this and missed it.

Criminal investigation to commence. Discrepancy about Information provided by Carnival to Port Authority. Oversight by Coroner.

I saw that, but NSW Health had already missed the chance to stop this. The fact Carnival lied to the Port Authority is disgusting but that doesn't clear NSW Health that knew there were multiple passengers with flu like symptoms and actually requested the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. They let the passengers off knowing they were waiting on covid 19 test results!

It is a significant issue as the provision of critical information including all
facts ensures a well informed decision is made. That also determines the response by NSW Health.

I hope there are criminal charges laid against Carnival. NSW Health had enough info to make a better decision than they one they made!

The decision NSW Health made was criminal in my opinion. All the govt wants to do now is brush over it. Let’s kick all the cruise ships out so we can’t stuff it up again. I also think that decision is criminal and inhumane, we are better than that. There are ways to handle the crew left on those ships and forcing them out into International Waters should not be one of them. A pure political decision of epic arse covering proportions.

If the information provided to the decision maker is allegedly misleading or untrue, and that decision informs the medical response, then the outcome will be poor. Channel 9 has been rabid in its pursuit of NSW Health. The ABC has a much more realistic report

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-05/nsw-police-investigate-ruby-princess-cruise-coronavirus-deaths/12123212

NSW Health had ambulances on the wharf, they knew there were issues. There are no excuses for such incompetence.

Carnival informed NSW Ambulance Service Corvid 19. was not an issue! The ambulances were there to take two passengers to hospital, one with a back complaint and another with a heart issue.

Carnival would not have known, they did not test for it, only influenza. NSW Health failed to put two and two together, while asking for the swabs so they could test for Covid 19. NSW Health allowed passengers off the ship without any restrictions. Abject failure of judgement by NSW Health.

The Police Commissioner stated there was clear evidence Corvid19 came off the ship in NZ. Therefore to tell authorities in another country it was not an issue is why we have this debacle and new investigation.

No one here is arguing that Carnival are blameless, Carnival appear to have been criminally misleading in the info they provided Australian agencies. That does not absolve NSW Health of blame, there was enough info to put restrictions in place!

There were Commonwealth and State protocols in place. Had correct info been communicated by Carnival, this would have triggered a different response. It would not change the fait of passengers as this was determined when they chose to cruise.

Some of the investigative journalists should dig to ascertain if the virus was brought into the ship from other Carnival ships by crew transfers or via inadequate cleaning.

Then the protocols were wrong, if you are conducting tests for covid 19 and the protocol is to let those people off a ship, into taxi, on public transport, into hotels, onto planes, into regional areas with low transmission then who ever wrote and approved those protocols are as much to blame as the people on the Ruby Princess that were hiding info. This may rightly end Carnival cruises an they deserve it, but other mistakes were made too. For some reason you only want to address one issue and not the rest!

Was the virus on board prior to leaving .. not cleaned properly or some of the crew already infected and known ? This obviously does not make the decision about docking any easier to stomach ... which ever way this ship was a floating morgue , I hate to think what would of happened if they did not dock and left at sea , the Japanese experience should have had red flags every where . Imo there would of been a lot more deaths if they did not dock !

I'm not saying they shouldn't have docked, they shouldn't have been allowed to disembark and go on their merry way! Should have went straight into quarantine.