T
Tiger5150
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@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1302517) said:@aesopian said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1302508) said:@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1302460) said:@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1302449) said:@harvey said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1302448) said:@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1301993) said:@harvey said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1301991) said:Almost reads like something that could have been published in a state sanctioned Chinese newspaper.
I'm not buying that line. I don't think the WHO narrative is a China narrative. I don't think it was ever likely the virus came from a lab. We know that viruses can leak from labs but it was unlikely that was the case this time. I think we already knew it wasn't a man made virus.
I still think labs studying viruses and wet markets or any trade in exotic animals is dangerous.
In stating that viruses do migrate from animals to humans regularly. We've had many pandemics/epidemics in the past that have occurred in this fashion. That is why this is by far the most likely explanation.
It is also hard to pin point exactly where the virus started. The same thing happened in the Spanish Flu outbreak. It probably started in America but I don't think the exact site was ever proven.
It is not the original host (animal) that I have an issue with, it is the suggestion that the virus existed elsewhere in the world and was imported into China via frozen food.
China are always going to say stupid things. I agree that it is highly unlikely it was imported into China.
I think the exotic animal trade is way too risky to continue and this practice is common in China. I also don't like creating these viruses in labs. There have been outbreaks from labs.
I also think at the moment based on the ***evidence*** and this has nothing at all to do with China that the virus like many other viruses in the past crossed over from animals into humans. I think it's highly likely the virus started in China via crossing over from animals and China tried to keep it quiet.
I'm just someone who goes off the predominant ***evidence***. It's like the vaccine discussions above. I will trust the reputable source rather than some edge case. If the edge case has ***evidence*** backing it up then cool but if not then I'll stick to what the ***evidence*** shows.
Genuinely not having a crack at you Earl, but you state evidence a lot in your posts. Could you post the evidence that shows that this virus passed from an animal to a human? Im not aware of any and would genuinely be interested in seeing it.
To clarify what I am talking about, we know for sure that SARS COV 1 came directly from bats to humans. The reason that we know this for sure is because Shi Zhengli of the Wuhan Institute of Virology actually tracked down the bats and found that exact virus in them and tested that it transferred to humans. There has not been an animal found in Wuhan or elsewhere with SAR COV2 in it. Not even in the Wet Market and they were tested.
TBH I am surprised China havent just lied and come out and said they found it in the Wet Market, but they havent, maybe because they are still pushing for the "it came from outside China" angle.
Dude, Dominic Dwyer was literally quoted yesterday saying **“the most likely source of the virus was bats, before another animal such as a cat passed it on to humans."**
Now let's see who is more likely to have credible evidence:
1 - Dominic Dwyer, microbiologist and infectious disease expert with NSW health. Evidence gathered through 1st hand experience on the ground in Wuhan.
2 - Random WTF expert, profession unknown. Evidence gathered by browsing the interwebs, finding articles that align with personal bias and passing it off as research.
Close call but I'm leaning towards No.1...
Yep. I'm just going with the consensus opinion at this point in time. If it comes out with evidence the virus came from a lab no problems.
No such thing as true scientific consensus, its a dangerous concept and is unscientific.
@Tiger5150 - there is no need to debate this topic. You support an edge case which is fine. That might have even happened. I'm just going with the experts on this one. If the experts viewpoint changes I'm happy to change my viewpoint.
Agree 100% there is no need to debate it, particularly you and I (we have been around that too many times) and I havent posted what I posted in order to ***debate*** it or to ***prove*** anything, but I am free to discuss it. I merely find this stuff interesting and I also find it interesting/frustrating working in a scientific field and seeing how "civilians" see science (not necessarily pointing at you), particularly as science is recently getting politicised ("follow the science"). Science isnt some bloke in a lab coat declaring something and if he has enough letters after his name, we all nod and follow along. "Consensus" is the opposite of science.
Im just adding this stuff for fuel for discussion and for interest. Im genuinely surprised when some defend their position against it aggressively.