Coronavirus Outbreak

[Mighty_Tiger]

Preliminary data from EU statistics agency Eurostat compiled by Reuters showed Sweden had 7.7% more deaths in 2020 than its average for the preceding four years.

No offense but looking at just deaths is so stupid. We are talking about COVID and not other deaths.

Look Sweeden has 50 apple trees and therefore lockdowns are stupid. It's hard to take anyone seriously who uses data like that. It's just dumb.

I agree. The original poster was focusing just on death rates.

Covid is actually alot bigger than mortality rates, there is no question that hospitalization rates & intensive care rates have increased. It’s not a myth. I have family who work in the health sector and they are running on empty.

For those that want to roam they will be the same complaining there isn’t enough being done by the government to support the health system in a months time.

 

[Radoush]

Preliminary data from EU statistics agency Eurostat compiled by Reuters showed Sweden had 7.7% more deaths in 2020 than its average for the preceding four years.

No offense but looking at just deaths is so stupid. We are talking about COVID and not other deaths.

Look Sweeden has 50 apple trees and therefore lockdowns are stupid. It's hard to take anyone seriously who uses data like that. It's just dumb.

How is looking at deaths stupid ? That's all death in Sweden do you understand that includes covid deaths as well in there death rates per 1000 people

 

[Radoush]

https://knoema.com/atlas/Sweden/Death-rate

9.1 per 1000 in 2020
9.1 per 1000 in 2019
9.2 per 1000 in 2018
9.7 per 1000 in 2010

No extra deaths in the death rate

 

[earl]

I'll try and explain this to the crazies slowly and for once just try and understand these concepts.

You are not comparing apples to apples. You are manipulating data to try and make a stupid point but it's really dumb.

You need to look at deaths by causes. That would breakdown why some reasons that people die have decreased while the number of people dying from COVID has increased.

Unfortunately I can't get the data to prove this via quickly looking on the Internet. It's not available but if you could I guarantee some causes of death have decreased while COVID has increased.

Even @Radoush figures are funny because if you look at the raw figures significantly more people died in 2020 compared to 2019.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

If you don't have the ability to be critical when using statistics you shouldn't use them.

 

[nuggetron]

Even @Radoush figures are funny because if you look at the raw figures significantly more people died in 2020 compared to 2019.

If you don't have the ability to be critical when using statistics you shouldn't use them.

more people died but population increased so the death rate remained constant at 9.1

 

[mike]

Some people really do need to do a course in critical thinking. It is sadly lacking in some.

 

[TillLindemann]

Norway, Denmark and Finland, which were all stricter than neighbouring Sweden, had fewer deaths than Sweden both totally and per capita.

 

[nuggetron]

Even @Radoush figures are funny because if you look at the raw figures significantly more people died in 2020 compared to 2019.

If you don't have the ability to be critical when using statistics you shouldn't use them.

more people died but population increased so the death rate remained constant at 9.1

and that's not a shot at you, just explaining why radoush's figures are technically correct, ignoring the fact how the figures came about.
example 9.1/1000 deaths this year, maybe 2/1000 died from lung diseases, immunocompromised diseases and whatever else, and now covid has claimed them before their normal cause of death does.
the data needs to be broken down that much to the point where it's almost useless; did person A die from covid, was there pre-existing medical conditions, would they have died this year without covid, did covid kill them or did they have covid at time of death etc etc
you can make the data helpful for either side; either breaking it down to an individual level or have an overarching view, both are technically correct and both using the same data set but just used to justify each owns point

 

[TillLindemann]

https://philip.greenspun.com/blog/2021/01/04/sweden-will-have-a-lower-death-rate-in-2020-than-it-had-in-2010/


https://knoema.com/atlas/Sweden/Death-rate


Sweden is traveling better than most with Covid

The blog post you link to is from 7 months ago, and would not capture the deaths from Sweden's 'second wave', and is therefore not very accurate.

 

[TillLindemann]

According to this, excess death from all causes increased in Sweden during the covid pandemic, so I am even more sceptical of those earlier figures now.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210721/Global-consortium-publishes-findings-on-all-cause-mortality-during-COVID-19-pandemic-in-22-countries.aspx

 

[FinestTigers]

Will NY Times do?

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/world/asia/china-covid-lockdown.amp.html


Sorry @mike this also doesn't answer the question, this is a story about a lockdown that is to prevent an outbreak, the story is not about another infection wave,
story exerpt: "When a handful of new coronavirus cases materialized this month in a province surrounding Beijing — apparently spread at a village wedding party — the Chinese authorities bolted into action"

You don’t lock down 22M people just for the fun of it.

I didn't ask about about lockdowns, 22m in lockdown doesn't mean 22m infected,
The following is my original queation,
"So can someone please point me in the right direction that shows/proves that China has had more than the one wave, as some of you have said"

What is your definition of a ‘wave’?

A multitude of infections in a specificed date/period.

Defined multitude, how many?10s/100s/1000s/Millions or % of population? And what date/period? A day/Week/month? Just want to get a feel for what you would consider a wave?

And You keep trying to get off the topic, can you prove that China had more than the one **infection wave** or not? Simple.

Not off topic at all. Unless you define what you consider a wave it’s pointless as you can just dismiss it as not a wave. So put some solid criteria around it. Would you consider that Sydney is going through a wave?

.
i would never had thought anyone would be agitated and offended by a very legitimate question.
I now refuse to engage in this nonsense any more further.

I am neither agitated nor offended. I really wanted to know.

As you are unable to define what you consider a wave it’s probably best that you stop engaging.

Okay, so, since you seem to know, what is your definition of a "wave" in a pandemic. Please answer.

So you really don't have a definition. OK.

To me I would consider Sydney is going through a wave. I would define a wave as number of cases reported daily say 60 or more and increasing over a period of a couple of weeks and continuing to increase where normal physical distancing, masks and hygiene measures are not effective. The resulting measures needed to decrease the numbers require more extreme measures like restricting gatherings, preventing unnecessary movements and interactions between people not in the same household. In other words a lock-down is needed to reduce the spread of the virus.

Excuse the late response since yesterday (i've been away from the forum and just returned) with all due respect @mike, my intention here is only to make sure that there is no ambiguity about what i've said and asked in my post yesterday.

Today, When i backtracked to my original post (which includes the term i used "infection wave") I then read the first few replies and comments, i realised that most of the repliers knew what i meant by me saying infection wave, and responded accordingly to this term, except you, but that was fine too.

But before we get to this definirion of what a wave is that you asked about, at the time when i was asking the forum “So can someone please point me in the right direction that shows/proves that China has had more than the one wave, as some of you have said”

You then sent me a link that supposedly answers this question, i then replied by saying,
I didn’t ask about about lockdowns, 22m in lockdown doesn’t mean 22m infected" (i believe now this really annoyed you)

Again, through the duration of the discussion and up to this point most observers knew what type of a wave i was talking about,

When seeing that i didn't
accept your answer as a relevant answer, You then wanted to change the focus by wanting an answer about that word that everyone clearly knew, you asked how do you define a "wave", i responded quickly, then you responded again by saying,

"To me I would consider Sydney is going through a wave. I would define a wave as **number of cases** reported daily say 60 or more and increasing over a period of a couple of weeks and continuing to increase where normal **physical distancing**, masks and hygiene measures are not effective. The resulting measures needed to decrease the numbers require more extreme measures like **restricting gatherings**, preventing unnecessary movements and interactions between people not in the same household. In other words a **lock-down** is needed to reduce the spread of the virus"

Mate, surely your not serious here are you? You have combined, daily cases(infections)**+**health advice**+**restrictions**+**lockdown**+**did you forget something else?
all of this to fit in the one **definition of what is a wave?**

Now, in the past, i've liked many of your posts, and i know you've liked some of mine, and i now a lot of your friends here will quickly jump to show their support for you and thats what mates are for,

But, mate, Seriously, RUOK is the Sydney lockdown becoming to much for you?

Now, i'm certain that i'll get another 3-4 downvotes from your mates again for pointing out your errors, but guys i'm giving you the chance to vote me out of this forum but the downvotes would need to be more than 10, So, this would give me a fair indication of how many fools there are here for ckicking on downvotes for what was only a modest opinion, and if the number of downvotes are true then i'm out of here,
So, guys, don't think or use your reason, just click, click.
Ready, steady, go ▶▶▶▶??

 

[Demps]

Noticed there's cases reported yesterday on the Central Coast...

Working its way up.

Feel like there'll be a lockdown across the state soon. Like last year.

 

[TillLindemann]

Will NY Times do?

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/world/asia/china-covid-lockdown.amp.html


Sorry @mike this also doesn't answer the question, this is a story about a lockdown that is to prevent an outbreak, the story is not about another infection wave,
story exerpt: "When a handful of new coronavirus cases materialized this month in a province surrounding Beijing — apparently spread at a village wedding party — the Chinese authorities bolted into action"

You don’t lock down 22M people just for the fun of it.

I didn't ask about about lockdowns, 22m in lockdown doesn't mean 22m infected,
The following is my original queation,
"So can someone please point me in the right direction that shows/proves that China has had more than the one wave, as some of you have said"

What is your definition of a ‘wave’?

A multitude of infections in a specificed date/period.

Defined multitude, how many?10s/100s/1000s/Millions or % of population? And what date/period? A day/Week/month? Just want to get a feel for what you would consider a wave?

And You keep trying to get off the topic, can you prove that China had more than the one **infection wave** or not? Simple.

Not off topic at all. Unless you define what you consider a wave it’s pointless as you can just dismiss it as not a wave. So put some solid criteria around it. Would you consider that Sydney is going through a wave?

.
i would never had thought anyone would be agitated and offended by a very legitimate question.
I now refuse to engage in this nonsense any more further.

I am neither agitated nor offended. I really wanted to know.

As you are unable to define what you consider a wave it’s probably best that you stop engaging.

Okay, so, since you seem to know, what is your definition of a "wave" in a pandemic. Please answer.

So you really don't have a definition. OK.

To me I would consider Sydney is going through a wave. I would define a wave as number of cases reported daily say 60 or more and increasing over a period of a couple of weeks and continuing to increase where normal physical distancing, masks and hygiene measures are not effective. The resulting measures needed to decrease the numbers require more extreme measures like restricting gatherings, preventing unnecessary movements and interactions between people not in the same household. In other words a lock-down is needed to reduce the spread of the virus.


Excuse the late response since yesterday (i've been away from the forum and just returned) with all due respect @mike, my intention here is only to make sure that there is no ambiguity about what i've said and asked in my post yesterday.

Today, When i backtracked to my original post (which includes the term i used "infection wave") I then read the first few replies and comments, i realised that most of the repliers knew what i meant by me saying infection wave, and responded accordingly to this term, except you, but that was fine too.

But before we get to this definirion of what a wave is that you asked about, at the time when i was asking the forum “So can someone please point me in the right direction that shows/proves that China has had more than the one wave, as some of you have said”

You then sent me a link that supposedly answers this question, i then replied by saying,
I didn’t ask about about lockdowns, 22m in lockdown doesn’t mean 22m infected" (i believe now this really annoyed you)

Again, through the duration of the discussion and up to this point most observers knew what type of a wave i was talking about,

When seeing that i didn't
accept your answer as a relevant answer, You then wanted to change the focus by wanting an answer about that word that everyone clearly knew, you asked how do you define a "wave", i responded quickly, then you responded again by saying,

"To me I would consider Sydney is going through a wave. I would define a wave as **number of cases** reported daily say 60 or more and increasing over a period of a couple of weeks and continuing to increase where normal **physical distancing**, masks and hygiene measures are not effective. The resulting measures needed to decrease the numbers require more extreme measures like **restricting gatherings**, preventing unnecessary movements and interactions between people not in the same household. In other words a **lock-down** is needed to reduce the spread of the virus"

Mate, surely your not serious here are you? You have combined, daily cases(infections)**+**health advice**+**restrictions**+**lockdown**+**did you forget something else?
all of this to fit in the one **definition of what is a wave?**

Now, in the past, i've liked many of your posts, and i know you've liked some of mine, and i now a lot of your friends here will quickly jump to show their support for you and thats what mates are for,

But, mate, Seriously, RUOK is the Sydney lockdown becoming to much for you?

Now, i'm certain that i'll get another 3-4 downvotes from your mates again for pointing out your errors, but guys i'm giving you the chance to vote me out of this forum but the downvotes would need to be more than 10, So, this would give me a fair indication of how many fools there are here for ckicking on downvotes for what was only a modest opinion, and if the number of downvotes are true then i'm out of here,
So, guys, don't think or use your reason, just click, click.
Ready, steady, go ▶▶▶▶??

According to the definition you've provided of a wave, China is actually going through one right now.

Yesterday China reported 76 new COVID-19 cases amid a surge of local infections in the eastern city of Nanjing, as well as an ongoing outbreak over the last fortnight in the border area near Myanmar.

 

[tiger_one]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9828241/Self-confessed-vaccine-sceptic-34-said-turn-time-dies-Covid.html

 

[Guest]

https://knoema.com/atlas/Sweden/Death-rate

9.1 per 1000 in 2020
9.1 per 1000 in 2019
9.2 per 1000 in 2018
9.7 per 1000 in 2010

No extra deaths in the death rate

What has Sweden got to do with Australia?

 

[FinestTigers]

Will NY Times do?

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/world/asia/china-covid-lockdown.amp.html


Sorry @mike this also doesn't answer the question, this is a story about a lockdown that is to prevent an outbreak, the story is not about another infection wave,
story exerpt: "When a handful of new coronavirus cases materialized this month in a province surrounding Beijing — apparently spread at a village wedding party — the Chinese authorities bolted into action"

You don’t lock down 22M people just for the fun of it.

I didn't ask about about lockdowns, 22m in lockdown doesn't mean 22m infected,
The following is my original queation,
"So can someone please point me in the right direction that shows/proves that China has had more than the one wave, as some of you have said"

What is your definition of a ‘wave’?

A multitude of infections in a specificed date/period.

Defined multitude, how many?10s/100s/1000s/Millions or % of population? And what date/period? A day/Week/month? Just want to get a feel for what you would consider a wave?

And You keep trying to get off the topic, can you prove that China had more than the one **infection wave** or not? Simple.

Not off topic at all. Unless you define what you consider a wave it’s pointless as you can just dismiss it as not a wave. So put some solid criteria around it. Would you consider that Sydney is going through a wave?

.
i would never had thought anyone would be agitated and offended by a very legitimate question.
I now refuse to engage in this nonsense any more further.

I am neither agitated nor offended. I really wanted to know.

As you are unable to define what you consider a wave it’s probably best that you stop engaging.

Okay, so, since you seem to know, what is your definition of a "wave" in a pandemic. Please answer.

So you really don't have a definition. OK.

To me I would consider Sydney is going through a wave. I would define a wave as number of cases reported daily say 60 or more and increasing over a period of a couple of weeks and continuing to increase where normal physical distancing, masks and hygiene measures are not effective. The resulting measures needed to decrease the numbers require more extreme measures like restricting gatherings, preventing unnecessary movements and interactions between people not in the same household. In other words a lock-down is needed to reduce the spread of the virus.


Excuse the late response since yesterday (i've been away from the forum and just returned) with all due respect @mike, my intention here is only to make sure that there is no ambiguity about what i've said and asked in my post yesterday.

Today, When i backtracked to my original post (which includes the term i used "infection wave") I then read the first few replies and comments, i realised that most of the repliers knew what i meant by me saying infection wave, and responded accordingly to this term, except you, but that was fine too.

But before we get to this definirion of what a wave is that you asked about, at the time when i was asking the forum “So can someone please point me in the right direction that shows/proves that China has had more than the one wave, as some of you have said”

You then sent me a link that supposedly answers this question, i then replied by saying,
I didn’t ask about about lockdowns, 22m in lockdown doesn’t mean 22m infected" (i believe now this really annoyed you)

Again, through the duration of the discussion and up to this point most observers knew what type of a wave i was talking about,

When seeing that i didn't
accept your answer as a relevant answer, You then wanted to change the focus by wanting an answer about that word that everyone clearly knew, you asked how do you define a "wave", i responded quickly, then you responded again by saying,

"To me I would consider Sydney is going through a wave. I would define a wave as **number of cases** reported daily say 60 or more and increasing over a period of a couple of weeks and continuing to increase where normal **physical distancing**, masks and hygiene measures are not effective. The resulting measures needed to decrease the numbers require more extreme measures like **restricting gatherings**, preventing unnecessary movements and interactions between people not in the same household. In other words a **lock-down** is needed to reduce the spread of the virus"

Mate, surely your not serious here are you? You have combined, daily cases(infections)**+**health advice**+**restrictions**+**lockdown**+**did you forget something else?
all of this to fit in the one **definition of what is a wave?**

Now, in the past, i've liked many of your posts, and i know you've liked some of mine, and i now a lot of your friends here will quickly jump to show their support for you and thats what mates are for,

But, mate, Seriously, RUOK is the Sydney lockdown becoming to much for you?

Now, i'm certain that i'll get another 3-4 downvotes from your mates again for pointing out your errors, but guys i'm giving you the chance to vote me out of this forum but the downvotes would need to be more than 10, So, this would give me a fair indication of how many fools there are here for ckicking on downvotes for what was only a modest opinion, and if the number of downvotes are true then i'm out of here,
So, guys, don't think or use your reason, just click, click.
Ready, steady, go ▶▶▶▶??

According to the definition you've provided of a wave, China is actually going through one right now.

Yesterday China reported 76 new COVID-19 cases amid a surge of local infections in the eastern city of Nanjing, as well as an ongoing outbreak over the last fortnight in the border area near Myanmar.

My definition?
I think you mean @mike 's definition
Please read post.

 

[Demps]

@Tiger5150 you back yet mate?
How's things?

 

[TillLindemann]

Will NY Times do?

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/world/asia/china-covid-lockdown.amp.html


Sorry @mike this also doesn't answer the question, this is a story about a lockdown that is to prevent an outbreak, the story is not about another infection wave,
story exerpt: "When a handful of new coronavirus cases materialized this month in a province surrounding Beijing — apparently spread at a village wedding party — the Chinese authorities bolted into action"

You don’t lock down 22M people just for the fun of it.

I didn't ask about about lockdowns, 22m in lockdown doesn't mean 22m infected,
The following is my original queation,
"So can someone please point me in the right direction that shows/proves that China has had more than the one wave, as some of you have said"

What is your definition of a ‘wave’?

A multitude of infections in a specificed date/period.

Defined multitude, how many?10s/100s/1000s/Millions or % of population? And what date/period? A day/Week/month? Just want to get a feel for what you would consider a wave?

And You keep trying to get off the topic, can you prove that China had more than the one **infection wave** or not? Simple.

Not off topic at all. Unless you define what you consider a wave it’s pointless as you can just dismiss it as not a wave. So put some solid criteria around it. Would you consider that Sydney is going through a wave?

.
i would never had thought anyone would be agitated and offended by a very legitimate question.
I now refuse to engage in this nonsense any more further.

I am neither agitated nor offended. I really wanted to know.

As you are unable to define what you consider a wave it’s probably best that you stop engaging.

Okay, so, since you seem to know, what is your definition of a "wave" in a pandemic. Please answer.

So you really don't have a definition. OK.

To me I would consider Sydney is going through a wave. I would define a wave as number of cases reported daily say 60 or more and increasing over a period of a couple of weeks and continuing to increase where normal physical distancing, masks and hygiene measures are not effective. The resulting measures needed to decrease the numbers require more extreme measures like restricting gatherings, preventing unnecessary movements and interactions between people not in the same household. In other words a lock-down is needed to reduce the spread of the virus.


Excuse the late response since yesterday (i've been away from the forum and just returned) with all due respect @mike, my intention here is only to make sure that there is no ambiguity about what i've said and asked in my post yesterday.

Today, When i backtracked to my original post (which includes the term i used "infection wave") I then read the first few replies and comments, i realised that most of the repliers knew what i meant by me saying infection wave, and responded accordingly to this term, except you, but that was fine too.

But before we get to this definirion of what a wave is that you asked about, at the time when i was asking the forum “So can someone please point me in the right direction that shows/proves that China has had more than the one wave, as some of you have said”

You then sent me a link that supposedly answers this question, i then replied by saying,
I didn’t ask about about lockdowns, 22m in lockdown doesn’t mean 22m infected" (i believe now this really annoyed you)

Again, through the duration of the discussion and up to this point most observers knew what type of a wave i was talking about,

When seeing that i didn't
accept your answer as a relevant answer, You then wanted to change the focus by wanting an answer about that word that everyone clearly knew, you asked how do you define a "wave", i responded quickly, then you responded again by saying,

"To me I would consider Sydney is going through a wave. I would define a wave as **number of cases** reported daily say 60 or more and increasing over a period of a couple of weeks and continuing to increase where normal **physical distancing**, masks and hygiene measures are not effective. The resulting measures needed to decrease the numbers require more extreme measures like **restricting gatherings**, preventing unnecessary movements and interactions between people not in the same household. In other words a **lock-down** is needed to reduce the spread of the virus"

Mate, surely your not serious here are you? You have combined, daily cases(infections)**+**health advice**+**restrictions**+**lockdown**+**did you forget something else?
all of this to fit in the one **definition of what is a wave?**

Now, in the past, i've liked many of your posts, and i know you've liked some of mine, and i now a lot of your friends here will quickly jump to show their support for you and thats what mates are for,

But, mate, Seriously, RUOK is the Sydney lockdown becoming to much for you?

Now, i'm certain that i'll get another 3-4 downvotes from your mates again for pointing out your errors, but guys i'm giving you the chance to vote me out of this forum but the downvotes would need to be more than 10, So, this would give me a fair indication of how many fools there are here for ckicking on downvotes for what was only a modest opinion, and if the number of downvotes are true then i'm out of here,
So, guys, don't think or use your reason, just click, click.
Ready, steady, go ▶▶▶▶??

According to the definition you've provided of a wave, China is actually going through one right now.

Yesterday China reported 76 new COVID-19 cases amid a surge of local infections in the eastern city of Nanjing, as well as an ongoing outbreak over the last fortnight in the border area near Myanmar.

My definition?
I think you mean @mike 's definition
Please read post.

Apologies, I misread.

 

[TheDaBoss]

Got my astro booked

 

[happy_tiger]

172 cases ....bloody hell ..you'll be lucky if you are out of lockdown by Mid September