Coronavirus Outbreak

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@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441633) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441613) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441607) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441603) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441592) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. ***Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ.*** You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

Strongly disagree with this.

The Government recommendations ***were*** (and remain outside of NSW) that those under 60 should not get AZ due to the slightly increased risk of clots.

For me, its a different reason. Both AZ and Pfizer provide around 95% protection against death, both provide around 85% protection against significant illness (hospitalisation) and there is nothing between them, however there is a massive difference between them when it comes to prevention of contracting Delta. AZ is around 65% and Pfizer is around 85%. For me its an easy decision and a decision that I need to be selfish about. I hate when people say that "people should get the AZ quickly for the good of society". I am making the decision to get vaccinated on behalf of other people ,I am making the decision to get Pfizer for me and its no one elses business.

Perhaps it is my former occupation but it is not all about me.

He actually said he was getting vaccinated for other people.

That's true. I am eligible for Pfizer but opted for AZ for obvious reasons.

Can I ask why ? I think it's great. The AZ vaccine is produced at cost and the risks to taking it a really low. The Pfizer vaccine costs a bomb.

We are in very difficult situation in NSW. Kerry Chant has pleaded with residents of NSW to be vaccinated. AZ is the only vaccine available to me. Kerry Chant was vaccinated with AZ and all my family who are medical professionals also opted for AZ. I do my bit, others will be safer.
 
@cultured_bogan said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441649) said:
Why? The same reason everyone else under 60 is choosing AZ over Pfizer. They simply cannot get vaccinated due to it’s scarcity.

I get that position. I don't get being over 60 or 50 and not taking the AZ. It frustrates me because they are taking the Pfizer vaccine away from higher risk categories.

The thing is and I'm not political we have I am pretty sure something like 40 million Pfizer shots due this year. It's August 11 today. If we can somehow maintain the situation until Christmas everyone should be able to get a shot.

If you are in a higher risk category I'd be rushing to get the AZ though.

One other point I put my name down immediately to get vaccinated and this was prior to this outbreak. I've had two doses of Pfizer. People took their time jumping at the opportunity.

I'm starting to think this won't be as big a catastrophe as what it could be. It will still be bad but it's going to be the unvaccinated. It's also people over 60 who didn't take the AZ vaccine when they should have. Without getting stats this will be close to 100% of the deaths that occur.
 
@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441663) said:
@gregjm87 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441647) said:
@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441633) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441613) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441607) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441603) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441592) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. ***Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ.*** You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

Strongly disagree with this.

The Government recommendations ***were*** (and remain outside of NSW) that those under 60 should not get AZ due to the slightly increased risk of clots.

For me, its a different reason. Both AZ and Pfizer provide around 95% protection against death, both provide around 85% protection against significant illness (hospitalisation) and there is nothing between them, however there is a massive difference between them when it comes to prevention of contracting Delta. AZ is around 65% and Pfizer is around 85%. For me its an easy decision and a decision that I need to be selfish about. I hate when people say that "people should get the AZ quickly for the good of society". I am making the decision to get vaccinated on behalf of other people ,I am making the decision to get Pfizer for me and its no one elses business.

Perhaps it is my former occupation but it is not all about me.

He actually said he was getting vaccinated for other people.

That's true. I am eligible for Pfizer but opted for AZ for obvious reasons.

Can I ask why ? I think it's great. The AZ vaccine is produced at cost and the risks to taking it a really low. The Pfizer vaccine costs a bomb.

I will answer as i have done the same (am 34). I have a second job at Woolworths (currently my primary job as my sole trader business is closed down as I live in an LGA of concern).
Despite falling in category 2B as i have an autoimmune disease (i would make the same decisions even if this wasn't the case) i was told i was unlikely to have access to Pfizer until the end of the year.
Given im active in the community (and in a higher risk area) for about 30hrs a week I essentially wanted whatever protection I could get rather than wait 6 months for the 'best' protection.

But, I totally understand someone less active e.g. working from home waiting for Pfizer and respect their decision to do so.

Perfect. You've made a rational risk based decision.

I can understand being a little risk averse but people in my opinion are stupid. They are honestly not taking a really good vaccine in the AZ vaccine and they are over 70. It kills me. These people are dropping like flies when they get COVID and they don't get vaccinated.

The way I see it is that it's coming. We can't stop it. Get vaccinated and give yourself the best possible chance.

There are going to be so many people who are unvaccinated and some of them are going to get really sick and some will die. It's not rational. Maybe it's rational in like ,000001% of cases.

I'm going to give up caring though. My family is getting vaccinated. We aren't the ones who will suffer.

Yeah I do not understand why the elderly would not get the AZ. It is sad to see deaths that could have been avoided. But I certainly understand why a younger less active person would not and I would think the same risk adverse young people choosing Pfizer (and the wait time) over AZ would be similarly risk adverse in returning to 'normal' activity levels if possible prior to them being vaccinated.
Those who simply refuse any vaccine however whilst any illness or death is still sad can not be changed no matter how much others may try to pursuade them towards vaccination.
 
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441665) said:
@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441633) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441613) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441607) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441603) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441592) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. ***Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ.*** You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

Strongly disagree with this.

The Government recommendations ***were*** (and remain outside of NSW) that those under 60 should not get AZ due to the slightly increased risk of clots.

For me, its a different reason. Both AZ and Pfizer provide around 95% protection against death, both provide around 85% protection against significant illness (hospitalisation) and there is nothing between them, however there is a massive difference between them when it comes to prevention of contracting Delta. AZ is around 65% and Pfizer is around 85%. For me its an easy decision and a decision that I need to be selfish about. I hate when people say that "people should get the AZ quickly for the good of society". I am making the decision to get vaccinated on behalf of other people ,I am making the decision to get Pfizer for me and its no one elses business.

Perhaps it is my former occupation but it is not all about me.

He actually said he was getting vaccinated for other people.

That's true. I am eligible for Pfizer but opted for AZ for obvious reasons.

Can I ask why ? I think it's great. The AZ vaccine is produced at cost and the risks to taking it a really low. The Pfizer vaccine costs a bomb.

We are in very difficult situation in NSW. Kerry Chant has pleaded with residents of NSW to be vaccinated. AZ is the only vaccine available to me. Kerry Chant was vaccinated with AZ and all my family who are medical professionals also opted for AZ. I do my bit, others will be safer.

I find the medical professionals comments interesting. I come from a family as well who have a bunch of medical professionals. You just get vaccinated. It's the smart choice.

I keep hearing Dr Chant telling people to get vaccinated and stating how concerned she is at the over 70's not vaccinated.

Who gets the blame for people not taking vaccines when they've been available and been pushed by the government.
 
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441631) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441594) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ. You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

I think AZ has been unfairly maligned, it is perfectly safe.

It is not perfectly safe (11 people have died from it in Aus) but it is exceedingly safe relative to COVID. It is also significantly less effective than Pfizer.

I understand your point of view. My earlier response may have come across as judgmental. I apologise.

I am fit, healthy and it was the only vaccine available when Kerry Chant pleaded with residents to be vaccinated. I like to do my bit to help the greater good for NSW.
 
@gregjm87 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441667) said:
@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441663) said:
@gregjm87 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441647) said:
@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441633) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441613) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441607) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441603) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441592) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. ***Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ.*** You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

Strongly disagree with this.

The Government recommendations ***were*** (and remain outside of NSW) that those under 60 should not get AZ due to the slightly increased risk of clots.

For me, its a different reason. Both AZ and Pfizer provide around 95% protection against death, both provide around 85% protection against significant illness (hospitalisation) and there is nothing between them, however there is a massive difference between them when it comes to prevention of contracting Delta. AZ is around 65% and Pfizer is around 85%. For me its an easy decision and a decision that I need to be selfish about. I hate when people say that "people should get the AZ quickly for the good of society". I am making the decision to get vaccinated on behalf of other people ,I am making the decision to get Pfizer for me and its no one elses business.

Perhaps it is my former occupation but it is not all about me.

He actually said he was getting vaccinated for other people.

That's true. I am eligible for Pfizer but opted for AZ for obvious reasons.

Can I ask why ? I think it's great. The AZ vaccine is produced at cost and the risks to taking it a really low. The Pfizer vaccine costs a bomb.

I will answer as i have done the same (am 34). I have a second job at Woolworths (currently my primary job as my sole trader business is closed down as I live in an LGA of concern).
Despite falling in category 2B as i have an autoimmune disease (i would make the same decisions even if this wasn't the case) i was told i was unlikely to have access to Pfizer until the end of the year.
Given im active in the community (and in a higher risk area) for about 30hrs a week I essentially wanted whatever protection I could get rather than wait 6 months for the 'best' protection.

But, I totally understand someone less active e.g. working from home waiting for Pfizer and respect their decision to do so.

Perfect. You've made a rational risk based decision.

I can understand being a little risk averse but people in my opinion are stupid. They are honestly not taking a really good vaccine in the AZ vaccine and they are over 70. It kills me. These people are dropping like flies when they get COVID and they don't get vaccinated.

The way I see it is that it's coming. We can't stop it. Get vaccinated and give yourself the best possible chance.

There are going to be so many people who are unvaccinated and some of them are going to get really sick and some will die. It's not rational. Maybe it's rational in like ,000001% of cases.

I'm going to give up caring though. My family is getting vaccinated. We aren't the ones who will suffer.

Yeah I do not understand why the elderly would not get the AZ. It is sad to see deaths that could have been avoided. But I certainly understand why a younger less active person would not and I would think the same risk adverse young people choosing Pfizer (and the wait time) over AZ would be similarly risk adverse in returning to 'normal' activity levels if possible prior to them being vaccinated.
Those who simply refuse any vaccine however whilst any illness or death is still sad can not be changed no matter how much others may try to pursuade them towards vaccination.

We are 100% in agreement.

The AZ vaccine is very very good. If you don't get the blood clot issue which happens very very rarely then you are good. It's efficacy is really good.

I heard some medical professionals talking recently and one guy said he was now really happy he got the AZ vaccine.
 
@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441668) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441665) said:
@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441633) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441613) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441607) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441603) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441592) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. ***Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ.*** You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

Strongly disagree with this.

The Government recommendations ***were*** (and remain outside of NSW) that those under 60 should not get AZ due to the slightly increased risk of clots.

For me, its a different reason. Both AZ and Pfizer provide around 95% protection against death, both provide around 85% protection against significant illness (hospitalisation) and there is nothing between them, however there is a massive difference between them when it comes to prevention of contracting Delta. AZ is around 65% and Pfizer is around 85%. For me its an easy decision and a decision that I need to be selfish about. I hate when people say that "people should get the AZ quickly for the good of society". I am making the decision to get vaccinated on behalf of other people ,I am making the decision to get Pfizer for me and its no one elses business.

Perhaps it is my former occupation but it is not all about me.

He actually said he was getting vaccinated for other people.

That's true. I am eligible for Pfizer but opted for AZ for obvious reasons.

Can I ask why ? I think it's great. The AZ vaccine is produced at cost and the risks to taking it a really low. The Pfizer vaccine costs a bomb.

We are in very difficult situation in NSW. Kerry Chant has pleaded with residents of NSW to be vaccinated. AZ is the only vaccine available to me. Kerry Chant was vaccinated with AZ and all my family who are medical professionals also opted for AZ. I do my bit, others will be safer.

I find the medical professionals comments interesting. I come from a family as well who have a bunch of medical professionals. You just get vaccinated. It's the smart choice.

I keep hearing Dr Chant telling people to get vaccinated and stating how concerned she is at the over 70's not vaccinated.

Who gets the blame for people not taking vaccines when they've been available and been pushed by the government.

It's a great question. My only answer is if I get vaccinated, it helps NSW (and Australia).
 
Some interesting data coming out of the UK and other countries with high vax rates.

Deaths are down which is excellent but hospitalisation rates are jumping sharply.

We'll need to come out of the lockdown phase at some point, but it seems like the stuff in our media about 'living with covid' are the sorts of things these countries were talking about a year ago and are figuring out aren't that simple.

![Screenshot 2021-08-11 135908.png](/assets/uploads/files/1628654420192-screenshot-2021-08-11-135908.png)
 
@gregjm87 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441647) said:
@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441633) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441613) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441607) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441603) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441592) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. ***Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ.*** You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

Strongly disagree with this.

The Government recommendations ***were*** (and remain outside of NSW) that those under 60 should not get AZ due to the slightly increased risk of clots.

For me, its a different reason. Both AZ and Pfizer provide around 95% protection against death, both provide around 85% protection against significant illness (hospitalisation) and there is nothing between them, however there is a massive difference between them when it comes to prevention of contracting Delta. AZ is around 65% and Pfizer is around 85%. For me its an easy decision and a decision that I need to be selfish about. I hate when people say that "people should get the AZ quickly for the good of society". I am making the decision to get vaccinated on behalf of other people ,I am making the decision to get Pfizer for me and its no one elses business.

Perhaps it is my former occupation but it is not all about me.

He actually said he was getting vaccinated for other people.

That's true. I am eligible for Pfizer but opted for AZ for obvious reasons.

Can I ask why ? I think it's great. The AZ vaccine is produced at cost and the risks to taking it a really low. The Pfizer vaccine costs a bomb.

I will answer as i have done the same (am 34). I have a second job at Woolworths (currently my primary job as my sole trader business is closed down as I live in an LGA of concern).
Despite falling in category 2B as i have an autoimmune disease (i would make the same decisions even if this wasn't the case) i was told i was unlikely to have access to Pfizer until the end of the year.
Given im active in the community (and in a higher risk area) for about 30hrs a week I essentially wanted whatever protection I could get rather than wait 6 months for the 'best' protection.

That makes a lot of sense and let me be clear that anyones decision to get either of the vaccines is their decision and made for their reasons are they are the right reasons. I was curious about the logic of it and in your case that makes total sense to me.


But, I totally understand someone less active e.g. working from home waiting for Pfizer and respect their decision to do so.

Thats me.

Funny though, at the start of all this I was a supporter of AZ in much the same way that Russell is a supporter of Jacob Liddle. I was for the AZ because it uses older, more proven technology, is cheaper, easier to store/transport and can be made here. For me the decision isnt necessarily because of the clotting issue (although plays a small part), for me the 20% difference in efficacy is the main reason for waiting for Pfizer. I just need to avoid COVID for 3-6 weeks to make it a good decision and that is the risk benefit decision Ive made.
 
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441631) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441594) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ. You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

I think AZ has been unfairly maligned, it is perfectly safe.

It is not perfectly safe (11 people have died from it in Aus) but it is exceedingly safe relative to COVID. It is also significantly less effective than Pfizer.

11 deaths in millions of shots is perfectly safe. It is statistically safer than having a bath.
 
@papacito said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441675) said:
We’ll need to come out of the lockdown phase at some point, but it seems like the stuff in our media about ‘living with covid’ are the sorts of things these countries were talking about a year ago and are figuring out aren’t that simple.

It's the Delta plus the unvaccinated. The unvaccinated are going to mean we need masks and some form of restrictions going forward.

It'll depend on how many people get vaccinated.

The big problem will be if somehow we get a variant that is worse. I don't think this is likely but the Delta variant isn't that old.
 
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441651) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441613) said:
@cochise said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441607) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441603) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441592) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. ***Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ.*** You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

Strongly disagree with this.

The Government recommendations ***were*** (and remain outside of NSW) that those under 60 should not get AZ due to the slightly increased risk of clots.

For me, its a different reason. Both AZ and Pfizer provide around 95% protection against death, both provide around 85% protection against significant illness (hospitalisation) and there is nothing between them, however there is a massive difference between them when it comes to prevention of contracting Delta. AZ is around 65% and Pfizer is around 85%. For me its an easy decision and a decision that I need to be selfish about. I hate when people say that "people should get the AZ quickly for the good of society". I am making the decision to get vaccinated on behalf of other people ,I am making the decision to get Pfizer for me and its no one elses business.

Perhaps it is my former occupation but it is not all about me.

He actually said he was getting vaccinated for other people.

That's true. I am eligible for Pfizer but opted for AZ for obvious reasons.

Serious question (not having a go at you). What are the obvious reasons to get AZ? For mine the obvious choise would be Pfizer based AZ being (incredibly) slightly less safe and significantly less effective.

What are your obvious reasons to go the other way (your opinion and choices are yours and obviously valid)?

1. Current situation in NSW.
2. Availability
3. Kerry Chant pleading with residents to be vaccinated.
 
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441677) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441631) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441594) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ. You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

I think AZ has been unfairly maligned, it is perfectly safe.

It is not perfectly safe (11 people have died from it in Aus) but it is exceedingly safe relative to COVID. It is also significantly less effective than Pfizer.

11 deaths in millions of shots is perfectly safe. It is statistically safer than having a bath.

Plus it's nonsense stating that the Pfizer is not as good as the AZ. Watch the video on efficacy rates.

If anything the Pfizer is a concern because it's efficacy in relation to stopping infections has dropped a lot in Israel. That isn't really a big deal because it's hospitalizations and deaths that are the real concern.

I reckon though lots of people don't understand efficacy and they've been brand shopping for the best vaccine. I bet some of those people have already died.
 
@cultured_bogan said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441645) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441626) said:
@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441620) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ. You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

You do have some options.

If you are over 60 (maybe 50) you should be getting the AZ.

Why? If I was over 60 (Im not), why shouldnt I be able to have access to a vaccine that provides 85% protection for contracting COVID against 65%?


Individually though you are crazy to think that you aren't getting COVID at some point. You either get a nice little helper from the vaccine or you take your chances.

Really? That is your opinion? Based on? you seem to like to pluck things out of nowhere but scientific data is showing Pfizer 85% effective against contracting Covid and AZ 65%. You know better than the scientists though?


It's like clock work though. The unvaccinated are the ones who will die and get sick.

**Is that how clocks work?**

Absolutely. If you don't vaccinate a clock, it'll die. Didn't you know that?

In time ......
 
Thats me.

Funny though, at the start of all this I was a supporter of AZ in much the same way that Russell is a supporter of Jacob Liddle. I was for the AZ because it uses older, more proven technology, is cheaper, easier to store/transport and can be made here. For me the decision isnt necessarily because of the clotting issue (although plays a small part), for me the 20% difference in efficacy is the main reason for waiting for Pfizer. I just need to avoid COVID for 3-6 weeks to make it a good decision and that is the risk benefit decision Ive made.

Thanks,

"I was a supporter of AZ in much the same way that Russell is a supporter of Jacob Liddle" this line genuinely made me laugh out loud.

Yeah I agree with your decision to wait, I mean if you are at minimal risk to be exposed to COVID and you want to maximise your protection when you return to higher risk exposure it makes perfect sense.
This isn't a go at you or anyone else who chooses Pfizer over AZ but rather the way the vaccine role out has been handled. As an 'at risk' individual I would have liked to have seen the Pfizer made available to all in my position before any not at risk choosing to wait for their preferred option.
But, with it being mismanaged the way it has, I encourage anyone to make the decisions they feel most comfortable with and taking that option as soon as it is available to them.
 
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441677) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441631) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441594) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ. You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

I think AZ has been unfairly maligned, it is perfectly safe.

It is not perfectly safe (11 people have died from it in Aus) but it is exceedingly safe relative to COVID. It is also significantly less effective than Pfizer.

11 deaths in millions of shots is perfectly safe. It is statistically safer than having a bath.

I'm guessing there are at least 11 families that would argue that
 
@earl said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441678) said:
@papacito said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441675) said:
We’ll need to come out of the lockdown phase at some point, but it seems like the stuff in our media about ‘living with covid’ are the sorts of things these countries were talking about a year ago and are figuring out aren’t that simple.

It's the Delta plus the unvaccinated. The unvaccinated are going to mean we need masks and some form of restrictions going forward.

It'll depend on how many people get vaccinated.

The big problem will be if somehow we get a variant that is worse. I don't think this is likely but the Delta variant isn't that old.

Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if mask wearing to some degree becomes the norm forever.

While everyone's hopeful that covid will evolve into something less harmful, they're just theories at the moment.
 
@tiger-beach said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441688) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441677) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441631) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441594) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ. You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

I think AZ has been unfairly maligned, it is perfectly safe.

It is not perfectly safe (11 people have died from it in Aus) but it is exceedingly safe relative to COVID. It is also significantly less effective than Pfizer.

11 deaths in millions of shots is perfectly safe. It is statistically safer than having a bath.

I'm guessing there are at least 11 families that would argue that

What a load of rubbish. Look at the alternative.
 
@tiger-beach said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441688) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441677) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441631) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441594) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1441579) said:
A lot of younger people are opting for AZ. Those who are under 60 and without medical conditions need to get the AZ. You shouldn't have to make the choice but that is the reality of the situation.

I think AZ has been unfairly maligned, it is perfectly safe.

It is not perfectly safe (11 people have died from it in Aus) but it is exceedingly safe relative to COVID. It is also significantly less effective than Pfizer.

11 deaths in millions of shots is perfectly safe. It is statistically safer than having a bath.

I'm guessing there are at least 11 families that would argue that

11 deaths in over 6 million doses.

Compare that to the 945 deaths from 37,300 cases. It's many times over safer than your chances in being offed by the virus, noting that it's killing healthy, young people now.
 
I'll try and post what efficacy rates mean if people don't want to watch the video.

1. Divide your sample population into 2 groups. This needs to be randomized and equal sized. So we want two equal groups. Give one group the vaccine and don't give the other group the vaccine (they get a placebo).
2. Track these people over time.
3. Finish the test and calculate the efficacy rate.


The calculation should work like follows:-

1. Get the number of people with COVID in the placebo group. Get the number of people who are vaccinated who get COVID.
2. Subtract the number of people with COVID who were vaccinated from the number of people who received the placebo who developed COVID. Divide this by the number of COVID cases in the placebo group.

>For Pfizer's trial, the efficacy was (162-8)/162 = 95.1%. For Moderna, there were 95 total cases of >COVID, of which 90 were in the placebo group, so the effectiveness was (90-5)/90 = 94.4%

There are flaws in the system. It is really hard to compare vaccine A to vaccine B. The only way you could do this is to complete the studies under the same real time conditions which probably won't happen.

The other flaw is that if you don't die or get really sick the vaccine has done it's job.

I don't know why so many people have been told the wrong story. The AZ vaccine is really good. The risk of blood clots is really low.

The vaccines were rolled out according to risk profile which I think is correct.
 
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