Counting to Six SEMI FINAL SPOILER

[innsaneink]

We saw one in the 20s only this week that would have cost us the game had the (C) challenge not been able to be used and rectify the error

 

[Newtown]

There should be some sort of consequence for the Sharks. i remember in 2009 the Dogs lost the minor premiership because they were penalised two competition points for having 14 men on the field at one point during an earlier game in the year.

Yes, because the sharks are the ones who called 5th tackle on the 6th…... :crazy

I agree, it's not their fault the ref is incompetent. Beau Ryan said he had no idea it was the 7th tackle until Freddy told him after the game. Todd Carney said he found out on the way home listening to the radio. To overturn it is ridiculous. Not to mention the Sharks ground out the win when they took the front. If they know they are having 6 points deducted from their score they would not be hitting it up and kicking to the corners to wind the clock down, they'd be throwing the ball around. Replaying it sets a dangerous precedent and is a road I don't want the game to go down. We didn't replay our game against Cronulla in round 1, 2012 when we got an advantage from a ref not knowing the rules in golden point.

And didn't the sharks coach complain bitterly then?

 

[pHyR3]

There should be some sort of consequence for the Sharks. i remember in 2009 the Dogs lost the minor premiership because they were penalised two competition points for having 14 men on the field at one point during an earlier game in the year.

Yes, because the sharks are the ones who called 5th tackle on the 6th…... :crazy

I agree, it's not their fault the ref is incompetent. Beau Ryan said he had no idea it was the 7th tackle until Freddy told him after the game. Todd Carney said he found out on the way home listening to the radio. To overturn it is ridiculous. Not to mention the Sharks ground out the win when they took the front. If they know they are having 6 points deducted from their score they would not be hitting it up and kicking to the corners to wind the clock down, they'd be throwing the ball around. Replaying it sets a dangerous precedent and is a road I don't want the game to go down. We didn't replay our game against Cronulla in round 1, 2012 when we got an advantage from a ref not knowing the rules in golden point.

Some Shark players would of known , even just watching the game I'm counting the tackle count both in attack and defence

People who think that players hear the ref yell out 5th tackle and they go " What 5th tackle , that went so fast " :laughing: tell em their dreaming

As a play maker you are setting to something and saying things like 3 plays til we bomb , or running a play I would say at the least the 6,7 and 9 would of known and Carney is just BS ing us

In the heat of a game, assuming i even realise which isn't likely, i'd most likely assume i'm at fault. And im sure the sharks did that too if they realised, it was fast paced and they're not gonna go to the ref and say, hey buddy i swear we got 7 tackles there….

 

[happy_tiger]

That's fine PhYr3 , just don't try and BS fans that now a little bit about the game

Even if you say something seemed strange but I wasn't sure

 

[pHyR3]

bit confused, what am i bsing?

 

[WestsSupporter]

not sure if this is true. I hope its not…


 

[Demonborger]

I wonder how many extra, incorrect sets of six tackles (not just one extra tackle) have been awarded to teams that lead to tries, over the years through stripping penalties that were really just lost possesions/loose carries?

This is exactly the point, and by extension the subjective penalties in the ruck (particularly when the ref isn't consistent in his subjectivity between teams…....!!!Souths!!!).

NRL is at fault for not streamlining the core rules to reduce the ambiguity, and for not altering what a penalty gives a team (6 more tackles and another 10-30m? for a subjective call?).

Failure to count to 6 is one problem and certain a fundamental thing that should not be wrong ever, but it is not the only referee error. Furthermore it is a rare occasion unlike penalties for strips and ruck infringements that can often be incorrect.

To top all of this off is a massive grey area governed by subjectivity that is so fundamental to the game as an entertainment product. THE TACKLE. What is it? When does it occur? Why is it subjective to the extent it is? Why do players spent 10 seconds wrestling on the ground (i know why they do it, but why does the game allow such boring play?). Why are some tackles called early and other times allow the ball carrier almost unlimited time to attempt to offload the ball?
When a player is wriggling on the ground how do the players know when he is deemed tackle and an appropriate time to get up off the player? Sure the ref must call tackle but that is both his subjective call and also inconsistent (sometimes the ref never does say tackled or any of the derivative words).

The best solutions I feel are to streamline the rules by:
1) marking a tackle by a timed count whereby the tacklers if they have held the player for a certain time (say 5 seconds) then he is tackled and must be released to play the ball. The count happens even if the ball carrier is struggling, while he does he can still make more meters, for entertainment if he is good enough he will tackle break or offload before that time rather than struggle like a fish. It also eliminates the need for extensive wrestling as it is timed objectively rather than subjectively. This puts the focus on initial contact in the tackle, quick offloads and the ball in motion.

2) Penalties unless awarded for professional fouls or dangerous play should simply be another tackle, on the count. GIVE THE REFS an APP that they press for each tackle that shows the tackle count on the big screens/tv data. When a penalty is awarded it would clearly be updated by the tackle count app for all to see. Use tech when you can.

3) Strip should only be give when the player who strips in a 2+ man tackle grabs a hold of the ball and rips it out. Anything else and it is play on. Brings back more contests and forces ball security + with timed tackle counts means the time window for a player to lose the ball is minimised.

All should be tested but those are just a few ideas of the steamlining that the NRL needs to do.

Plenty of people are disillusioned with refereeing and it will damage the support if not addressed. The fix is not really about the referees themselves, they are people and like all of us are not infallible and make errors. The fix is streamlining the rules and removing as many subjective areas as possible whilst retaining or improving the game as entertainment for the fans.

 

[WestsSupporter]

i wish this happened to souths then there would be a bigger uproar.

 

[Newtown]

Nice tap on the wrist. I am sure that the suspended referees and officials will be back in first grade in the first round of 2014.

 

[pHyR3]

I wonder how many extra, incorrect sets of six tackles (not just one extra tackle) have been awarded to teams that lead to tries, over the years through stripping penalties that were really just lost possesions/loose carries?

This is exactly the point, and by extension the subjective penalties in the ruck (particularly when the ref isn't consistent in his subjectivity between teams…....!!!Souths!!!).

NRL is at fault for not streamlining the core rules to reduce the ambiguity, and for not altering what a penalty gives a team (6 more tackles and another 10-30m? for a subjective call?).

Failure to count to 6 is one problem and certain a fundamental thing that should not be wrong ever, but it is not the only referee error. Furthermore it is a rare occasion unlike penalties for strips and ruck infringements that can often be incorrect.

To top all of this off is a massive grey area governed by subjectivity that is so fundamental to the game as an entertainment product. THE TACKLE. What is it? When does it occur? Why is it subjective to the extent it is? Why do players spent 10 seconds wrestling on the ground (i know why they do it, but why does the game allow such boring play?). Why are some tackles called early and other times allow the ball carrier almost unlimited time to attempt to offload the ball?
When a player is wriggling on the ground how do the players know when he is deemed tackle and an appropriate time to get up off the player? Sure the ref must call tackle but that is both his subjective call and also inconsistent (sometimes the ref never does say tackled or any of the derivative words).

The best solutions I feel are to streamline the rules by:
1) marking a tackle by a timed count whereby the tacklers if they have held the player for a certain time (say 5 seconds) then he is tackled and must be released to play the ball. The count happens even if the ball carrier is struggling, while he does he can still make more meters, for entertainment if he is good enough he will tackle break or offload before that time rather than struggle like a fish. It also eliminates the need for extensive wrestling as it is timed objectively rather than subjectively. This puts the focus on initial contact in the tackle, quick offloads and the ball in motion.

2) Penalties unless awarded for professional fouls or dangerous play should simply be another tackle, on the count. GIVE THE REFS an APP that they press for each tackle that shows the tackle count on the big screens/tv data. When a penalty is awarded it would clearly be updated by the tackle count app for all to see. Use tech when you can.

3) Strip should only be give when the player who strips in a 2+ man tackle grabs a hold of the ball and rips it out. Anything else and it is play on. Brings back more contests and forces ball security + with timed tackle counts means the time window for a player to lose the ball is minimised.

All should be tested but those are just a few ideas of the steamlining that the NRL needs to do.

Plenty of people are disillusioned with refereeing and it will damage the support if not addressed. The fix is not really about the referees themselves, they are people and like all of us are not infallible and make errors. The fix is streamlining the rules and removing as many subjective areas as possible whilst retaining or improving the game as entertainment for the fans.

Very nicely explained and thought out! You should honestly send that to smith, doubt it'd make a difference though….

There's a tonne more suggestions in another thread about what the NRL needs to change for 2014\. Not too old.

 

[happy_tiger]

bit confused, what am i bsing?

I'm talking about Carney , not you Phyr3

He would of probably had some idea that something wasn't right